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Father Void
Technomancers TriMark Alliance
39
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
I find PvP daunting. Giant blobs fights are awesome in the news but has never been part of my EVE life. IGÇÖve done roams and fleets trying to break gate camps and that can be fun but lacks a certain ooompf. To me, they seem to be based on a flawed system. I personally hate gate camps and their heavy use to GÇ£find a fightGÇÖ. I have to problem with it as a system to control a system or an area but using them just to pick a fight just feel wrong to me. Trying to roam by myself is a struggle. So it got me to thinking about a way to have some controlled combat fun in an environment accessible to noobs and veterans. I see the tourneys being held these days and imply shrug GÇ£must be fun for themGǪno way I can enter.GÇ¥ Why not make something I can play?
The first aspect to build would be a tiered system. One that takes into account either your desired match up or your current ranking in the Arena World. Your Arena Rank would be earned through predefined Arena match victories and loses. If you win you get an AR increase; you lose and your AR decreases. This is coupled with Tiers. For example:
Tier 1 Copper = 0-9,999 AR points Tier 2 Silver = 10,000 GÇô 29,999 AR points Tier 3 Gold = 30,000 GÇô 59,999 AR points GǪ Tier 10 Diamond = 999,999 -1,0000,000 AR points
So in the ranked arena you work to increase you ranking and thus net higher rewards calculated at the rank you are fighting. It also creates a system where you can actually loose raking GÇÿget sent down to the minorsGÇÖ if you will. When you enter a new tier you essentially enter a higher level of skilled players and skill point pools. ItGÇÖs kind of like match making in Halo but not on the spot. You have to earn your right to fight in the next Tier.
Certifications have always intrigues me. They are cool but have little impact on the actual game. Expanding the certification system would allow you to purchase an Arena License based on your Certifications. This ensures that you meet the minimum requirements to fight and your team mates can count on at least some level of usefulness from their teammates.
I see four types of Arenas: 1)Prebuilt Solo 2)Prebuilt Team 3)Free For All Team Fights 4)Free For All Solo
Prebuilt requires an entry free and you are assigned a prebuilt ship to fly and win or lose with. You donGÇÖt get to keep it or modify it. Free For All means you can enter any ship you like as long as it meets the requirements for the rank of the match. If say I want to work on my T3 flying skills I can sign up for those fights assuming I have the license to enter the match.
I imagine you could also create a ton of additional Arena types, weekly challenges ect. Can 4 Frigates beat a drake. Random match ups between different ship types ect. And of course special tournaments are held for additional prizes outside of the normal system.
This would all be handled automatically and run by an NPC corporation. Fights would take place in deadspace sealed off areas immune to outside interference. Two ships enter; one ship (and a pod) leaves. Every player in EVE gets a perma clone to the Arena System that they can use to jump to and fro. If they are playing prebuilt then all they have to do is jump in, sign up and get their arena ship. If they are playing Free for All then they have to travel to the system.
So why all this? One I think it gives all players a way to improve the PvP skills and thus will improve the overall universe PvP environment in a control way, accessible. If I've won a bunch of matches with Ishtar IGÇÖm much more likely to go out there and try it in the real world with a little more confidence. You also learn things like angular velocity, orbiting, optimal ranges and such in a controlled environment where you have a little more time to understand whatGÇÖs occurring. You also increase your 'fun' time. if i want to hop on for an hour I have a place to go and get into some action instead of a possible boring roam that nets me nothing but a fuel bill.
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Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
115
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
This game should provide the base tools to make your own tournaments. Not have the game reward you in manipulating a prebuilt system.
All we need is a fleet on fleet limited engagement. The players can take care of the rest. |
Rath Kelbore
Eviscerate.
298
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
/me runs for cover
Prepare to be attacked voraciously and be told to GB2WOWZOMG. Every time arena is mentioned people freak out.
If they could make an arena system in which everything blown up in the arena is lost just like normal and was an overall isk sink, I probably wouldn't mind seeing it. No special items or any other bullshit, just an in game mechanic for arranged fights that benefits the economy by being an ISK sink. I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
Father Void
Technomancers TriMark Alliance
39
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:/me runs for cover
Prepare to be attacked voraciously and be told to GB2WOWZOMG. Every time arena is mentioned people freak out.
If they could make an arena system in which everything blown up in the arena is lost just like normal and was an overall isk sink, I probably wouldn't mind seeing it. No special items or any other bullshit, just an in game mechanic for arranged fights that benefits the economy by being an ISK sink.
You pretty much it. No level 3 tier arena gear. |
Father Void
Technomancers TriMark Alliance
39
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pyre leFay wrote:This game should provide the base tools to make your own tournaments. Not have the game reward you in manipulating a prebuilt system.
All we need is a fleet on fleet limited engagement. The players can take care of the rest.
I don't disagree that those options are needed. They are plenty of ways to arrange a fight now if you're willing and pople by into it. I'm talking about something that is accessle at all times. Like I can pop on and run a mission. Why not be able to pop on and sign up for a match?
EVE does a wonderful job at giving the players a universe where they can create the content but that doesn't mean that should be the only way it can be done. |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
203
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
"This would all be handled automatically and run by an NPC corporation. Fights would take place in deadspace sealed off areas immune to outside interference."
This idea really goes against what Eve stands for... not that it wouldn't be fun.
Players are free to set up tournaments of their own. I know I've been in corps and alliances that do in house tourneys.
Also, Faction Warfare. Eve already has a structured PvP system to ease new players into PvP. RvB is another good option to try. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
79
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Why to ruin the beauty of EvE with theme park arenas, fair fights and consensual pvp?
It's up to the players organizations to arrange torunements, if it make sense for them. And many already do this. Enforcing it by some game mechanics would overwrite the player driven ones. |
Father Void
Technomancers TriMark Alliance
39
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
mechtech wrote:"This would all be handled automatically and run by an NPC corporation. Fights would take place in deadspace sealed off areas immune to outside interference."
This idea really goes against what Eve stands for... not that it wouldn't be fun.
Why? Missions are handled exactly this way. What's the different? |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2736
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
EVE is *not* the sort of game for PvP-on-a-silver-platter and PvP without consequences. FFS, you even talked about prebuilt ships that you don't keep or lose. This is fundamentally against the spirit of EVE.
Also, 1 frigate can beat a drake. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Father Void
Technomancers TriMark Alliance
39
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Why to ruin the beauty of EvE with theme park arenas, fair fights and consensual pvp?
It's up to the players organizations to arrange torunements, if it make sense for them. And many already do this. Enforcing it by some game mechanics would overwrite the player driven ones.
How is it enforced? It's a choice, completely optional. Corps can still run there own. Its simply a way to create a much more accessible format. |
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Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2981
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Any time you think you have a good idea for an arena you simply provide a way for players to be immune from interference from other players and that is quite obviously a big no-no.
If you want a 1v1 go somewhere quiet to have it. The tools are already there to allow it. There should categorically NOT be a way to provide ship immunity which is exactly what these arena proposals always forget. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ (my spaceblog) http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.co.uk/~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
62
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Father Void wrote:mechtech wrote:"This would all be handled automatically and run by an NPC corporation. Fights would take place in deadspace sealed off areas immune to outside interference."
This idea really goes against what Eve stands for... not that it wouldn't be fun.
Why? Missions are handled exactly this way. What's the different? No they are not.
They can be scanned, entered and be messed up by everyone willing to make the effort. And it's a good thing.
If you allow this to happen to your "Arenas", I'm fine with it. Otherwise: No. |
Father Void
Technomancers TriMark Alliance
39
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Any time you think you have a good idea for an arena you simply provide a way for players to be immune from interference from other players and that is quite obviously a big no-no.
If you want a 1v1 go somewhere quiet to have it. The tools are already there to allow it. There should categorically NOT be a way to provide ship immunity which is exactly what these arena proposals always forget.
I have to ask why? Why is temporary environment where you can have a fight a bad thing? What are the downsides? I'd like to hear them because maybe there's a way to resolve them. They wouldn't be able to do anything special. It not like we're creating a WH where then can setup a POS and mine. they can't hide in there from aggressors, simply put a time time on matches and between matches. |
Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arena PvP?
Door ------> |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
619
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm generally ambivalent towards arenas. In some games, they're rather well done, in others not so much.
I do like the idea of a "holodec" training arena of sorts. This was implemented in Pirates of the Burning Sea, when developers realized that a lot of players avoided PvP because they weren't sure how to properly PvP. And the "lossless" training area, where you use your standard ship, but don't lose (or gain) anything if you lose (or win) was found to be very beneficial, especially to newer gamers.
So I do feel EVE could benefit from this, especially if the goal is to attract and keep new players. Such a training arena would be perfect to ween people off the fear of PvP in a safe training environment. Corps can use it for training purposes and practice, etc.
Bottom line, it can't hurt to have it. As long as it is totally non-profit for the player. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
83
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 23:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
This should really be in the Features and Ideas discussion forum. |
Father Void
Technomancers TriMark Alliance
39
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:This should really be in the Features and Ideas discussion forum. True. I'd move it if I could. |
Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:I'm generally ambivalent towards arenas. In some games, they're rather well done, in others not so much.
I do like the idea of a "holodec" training arena of sorts. This was implemented in Pirates of the Burning Sea, when developers realized that a lot of players avoided PvP because they weren't sure how to properly PvP. And the "lossless" training area, where you use your standard ship, but don't lose (or gain) anything if you lose (or win) was found to be very beneficial, especially to newer gamers.
So I do feel EVE could benefit from this, especially if the goal is to attract and keep new players. Such a training arena would be perfect to ween people off the fear of PvP in a safe training environment. Corps can use it for training purposes and practice, etc.
Bottom line, it can't hurt to have it. As long as it is totally non-profit for the player.
Wana learn PvP? Go to the test server. No need to waste development resources on something that is unneeded and unwanted in the game. |
Zoctrine
Perkone Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Father Void wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:This should really be in the Features and Ideas discussion forum. True. I'd move it if I could.
It will get moved, no worries... And +1 for the idea, I think it could be a nice thing to have if done right. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2417
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Limited engagements are effective arenas. CCP just needs to expand them so that they can be more flexible, specifically by adding fleet LEs and variable timers on consensual LEs (so that a fleet fight doesn't have LEs expiring just because pilot A hasn't aggressed pilot E in five minutes).
This will still allow for "cheating" where someone can bring in neutral logi, but the new suspect system allows for easy enforcement by putting some neutral snipers on the field.
The problem with arenas is that they would remove the players from the game world, something CCP has stated repeatedly to be contrary to their vision of the game. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
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Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
116
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 23:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:I'm generally ambivalent towards arenas. In some games, they're rather well done, in others not so much.
I do like the idea of a "holodec" training arena of sorts. This was implemented in Pirates of the Burning Sea, when developers realized that a lot of players avoided PvP because they weren't sure how to properly PvP. And the "lossless" training area, where you use your standard ship, but don't lose (or gain) anything if you lose (or win) was found to be very beneficial, especially to newer gamers.
So I do feel EVE could benefit from this, especially if the goal is to attract and keep new players. Such a training arena would be perfect to ween people off the fear of PvP in a safe training environment. Corps can use it for training purposes and practice, etc.
Bottom line, it can't hurt to have it. As long as it is totally non-profit for the player.
Which can be covered in a more robust combat tutorial that can actually be repeatable with no rewards. A rookie ship with a turret and a missile can cover all the advanced aspects of pvp combat, even larger ship combat if exposed to larger ships in training if they better explained turret speeds, ship speed, sig radius and ewar. Think of mech warrior 2 tutorial. A COSMOS agent in space with you as a instructor waiting for cues after he tells you to perform actions against targets and explains why doing something is beneficial or detrimental. Rookie ships are "lossless" training tools that are under utilized in tutorial missions when it comes to combat training. The current tutorial tries to get you out of them asap. Basically: "just get a better ship then shoot tell their dead" is eve training. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
804
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 23:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
A.) This is typically posted in F&I, not GD....
B.) Please do a forum search before just posting a topic.... this topic has come up many times before: Deadspace Nullsec Arenas Consensual PvP Arenas Virtual Arenas Tourney Arenas Controlled Arenas Lowsec Arenas Dueling Arenas Ship Restricted Combat Zones Dueling Contracts PvP Arenas Colosseums Simulated PvP PvP Simulator Null and Lowsec Arenas Duel Mode The Thunderdome
C.) Why can't you step up and arrange all of these fights now?? Do you really need CCP to develop this content for you??
D.) How will this impact everyday PvP?? |
Pretty GuyYeah
33
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yes, we need an arena system and a queue for battlegrounds.
lol Remove local. Revamp or buff drones. Buff low and nullsec. Limit null camping possibilities. |
Phil Da Agony
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.13 00:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Why to ruin the beauty of EvE with theme park arenas, fair fights and consensual pvp?
It's up to the players organizations to arrange torunements, if it make sense for them. And many already do this. Enforcing it by some game mechanics would overwrite the player driven ones.
/thread
Nothing to do here. |
Father Void
Technomancers TriMark Alliance
39
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Posted - 2012.12.13 00:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
lol guess I should have known.
Get excited about idea. Post it. Expect discussion. Watch as my faith gets sucked out like Dark Crystal essence scene.
Indeed. /thread
Thanks for the time reading it and those links to others interested in similar ideas. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
754
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Posted - 2012.12.13 00:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
I just found this thread, but it looks like OP has thrown in the towel...am I too late to **** in the pool? Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
flummox
Lost Nomads
21
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Posted - 2012.12.13 00:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
i look forward to reading this when it gets moved to the proper forum... I really wish everyone would stop typing it out as E v E...-á why?-á why is it lowercase?-á Is it because you think it is "everyone vs everyone"??-á Because if you do, you're just a pinhead.-á Yup.-á That's right...-á using "EvE" makes you a pinhead.-á Enjoy your 1950's American insult... |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1229
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Posted - 2012.12.13 01:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Moved from General Discussion. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2981
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 01:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Father Void wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Any time you think you have a good idea for an arena you simply provide a way for players to be immune from interference from other players and that is quite obviously a big no-no.
If you want a 1v1 go somewhere quiet to have it. The tools are already there to allow it. There should categorically NOT be a way to provide ship immunity which is exactly what these arena proposals always forget. I have to ask why? Why is temporary environment where you can have a fight a bad thing? What are the downsides? I'd like to hear them because maybe there's a way to resolve them. They wouldn't be able to do anything special. It not like we're creating a WH where then can setup a POS and mine. they can't hide in there from aggressors, simply put a time time on matches and between matches.
1. It removes player population in regular PVP areas thus damaging the current environment. This entire game relies on the existence of PVP. Undermine it by trivialising combat to a simple and guaranteed safe 1v1 and many people will resort to this rather than actually populate space as intended. Result: Even more barren wasteland.
2. If no one can get to you to interfere then these can be used to create unreachable safe spots. PVPing and an unkillable blob is running up the pipe? Go make a safe arena where they cant get you. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ (my spaceblog) http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.co.uk/~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
295
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Posted - 2012.12.13 02:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
I read about an arena area once, i think it was called new eden, it was massive, with hundreds if not thousands of different areas to fight in. They also had these cool areas to take a break in, and if you wanted to be really well hidden there were these secret doors where the only way someone knew that you were there is if they saw you go in. I can really remember where i read about this though. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
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