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Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Caleidascope wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:And how many of those 22 wounded children would be dead children if he had had a gun? "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." True. But people with a gun can kill more people than people without a gun.
From what I know about obtaining a German Driver License, I'm sure it's really really really hard to buy and license a gun there. -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Apparently the killer's Mother was the Kindergarten Teacher !
Wow. A psycho with a screwed up Oedipal Complex. -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Jago Kain
Ramm's RDI Tactical Narcotics Team
47
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:They try to scare people into believing there are tens of millions of criminals who will run rampant and take over America unless we are all armed at all times.
"Guns will only be in the hands of the criminals".
They somehow forget the existence of Police and the National Guard in their arguments.
And curses on Charleton Heston for being the 'face' of the National Rifle Association all these years, furthering their agenda. I will never rent or buy a film with him in it due to his continued royalty payments. Unfortunately this means I cannot watch James Cameron's "True Lies" or "Planet of the Apes" anymore. An idiot, indeed.
I would be able to get behind the sentiments in this post a lot more, if the po-leese and National Guard in the USA didn't have such an appalling track record when it comes to not shooting/tasing unarmed students and brown people.
Isn't prevention of a takeover by a hostile gubment and it's drones what the 2nd amendment was put in place to stop? OK, I'm not a card carrying Merkin, but this angle does seem to be pushed an awful lot.
Also there's no "e" in Charlton (or coke or speed for that matter) and I should think that he's beyond caring about the lost royalties from you avoiding PoTA as he is both rich already and dead. One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings - Diogenes. |
Telegram Sam
Shoot 2 Thrill
495
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote:I find it very disturbing that you slowly get used to tragedies like these and immediately start to compare the kills between different school shootings.
Yes but I still feel numb in my chest reading this. Global Instant Media, bringing the disasters of ALL 6 billion people to you 24/7. Hard not to get jaded. There is an unbearable tragedy somewhere everyday. Ones like this get to me, what those parents must be going through, I hope I never get truly desensitized. I don't know, check out the photos of those kids being evacuated. They were really young, like second and third grade. Who could shoot a kid that young? It's one thing going on a rampage against your peers (fellow high school students, fellow college students, fellow mall shoppers, whatever). But to specifically go after young kids, who aren't even old enough to become smart-ass punks yet? And with a partner, and therefore a pre-decided plan? Somehow this one seems a lot worse than the other ones to me. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
640
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
This is nothing to get scared about, there are 10s of millions of kids going to 98,000 American public schools. The chance of this happening at the one your kids go to is less than getting hit by lightning twice. I tell this to people all the time as a Law Enforcement Officer, bad things can happen anywhere two human beings come into contact.
I pray for those affected, (especially the families of the dead and the 1st responders who will be traumatized), but with all things it must be kept in context. It seems close to home because of TV be we (the United States) are a country of 300+ million people stretched over a continent.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
The point is it's happening at an accellerating pace. -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Benilopax
Solar Storm Intrepid Crossing
380
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Benilopax wrote:Jago Kain wrote:Yet another example of why gun free zones are a terrible idea. If I was looking to cap a few folk and didn't want them shooting back I'd be heading to where I knew they wouldn't be armed.
Here in the UK that wouldn't be too difficult as the powers that be have declared everywhere to be gun free as eveyone knows it's much safer when only criminals have guns.
Couple of teachers with concealed carry permits though, and this may well have been less serious, if it happened at all.
Why always kids though? I know most kids are snot nosed little twunts, and many remain so for the rest of thier lives, but at least give them a chance to grow out of it.
Go do the local mall instead. Plenty of sulky emo teenagers bunking off there so no guilt problems.... and the ones you miss then have a real reason to be emo so win/win. Gun related deaths per 100,000 people: United States 9.00 United Kingdom 0.22 I like my gun free country.
Did I mention that only 0.03 of that 0.22 were murders. ... |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jago Kain wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:They try to scare people into believing there are tens of millions of criminals who will run rampant and take over America unless we are all armed at all times.
"Guns will only be in the hands of the criminals".
They somehow forget the existence of Police and the National Guard in their arguments.
And curses on Charleton Heston for being the 'face' of the National Rifle Association all these years, furthering their agenda. I will never rent or buy a film with him in it due to his continued royalty payments. Unfortunately this means I cannot watch James Cameron's "True Lies" or "Planet of the Apes" anymore. An idiot, indeed. I would be able to get behind the sentiments in this post a lot more, if the po-leese and National Guard in the USA didn't have such an appalling track record when it comes to not shooting/tasing unarmed students and brown people. Isn't prevention of a takeover by a hostile gubment and it's drones what the 2nd amendment was put in place to stop? OK, I'm not a card carrying Merkin, but this angle does seem to be pushed an awful lot. Also there's no "e" in Charlton (or coke or speed for that matter) and I should think that he's beyond caring about the lost royalties from you avoiding PoTA as he is both rich already and dead.
You lose points on all three. Just stop typing. Sad to see the non-existent 'e' in Chrarlton during a typo is more important than dead kindergarten children to you.
And I typo'ed again, and I don't care. -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1319
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
You know what would be fun ? Mandatory concealed gun laws for anybody above 16. That's all teachers and school personnel, and last two grades of highschool. As in, you're fined if you DO NOT have a loaded functional gun on your person at all times when you're out and in your house when you're in. Let's see how many random "mass killing" shooters we still have in a few years. It would be like trying to rob a police precinct. Of course, the number of actual gun-related wounds and deaths will go up a lot, but not in mass shootings, just a lot of isolated incidents. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
640
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:horrible. and senseless. and...becoming very common.
but...the real tragedy to me, is not the shooting itself...it's that i am not shocked or surprised by it at all. living in a country where there are on average 87 violent gun deaths a day (not counting suicides) i don't see how anyone is taken aback by these occurrences.
it's practically...idk...tolerable.
A Whole 87? In a country of 300 million people and 270 million guns (we have more guns than cars)?
Put another way, 299,999,913 people don't get shot by anyone every day in America.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
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Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
15
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Caleidascope wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:And how many of those 22 wounded children would be dead children if he had had a gun? "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." True. But people with a gun can kill more people than people without a gun.
well, idk.
even before guns were around...we were pretty good at killing each other. we've not needed much assistance in that regard.
only thing we've done is increase the range. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Akita T wrote:You know what would be fun ? Mandatory concealed gun laws. As in, you're fined if you DO NOT have a loaded functional gun on your person at all times when you're out and in your house when you're in. Let's see how many random "mass killing" shooters we still have in a few years. Of course, the number of actual gun-related wounds and deaths will go up a lot, but not in mass shootings, just a lot of isolated incidents.
You don't seem to understand that these people are psychologically unhinged, and will do their actions no matter what. They don't grasp or care about deterrants in the least. Plus, people would use them on a much more casual basis, so yes it would be a whole lot worse. They would absolutely have to be checked before entering a bar, that's for sure. Who's gonna handle that aspect? -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
640
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:The point is it's happening at an accellerating pace.
Not it isn't it just seems that way because of TV. Murder rates (including instances of Spree Killings and mass murder) have declined for the last 16 years. America is actually as statistically safe now as it was in the mid 1950s.
Part of my job is compiling Crime Stats for my Department (we have to report them to the FBI every year) so I'm exposed to the national data constantly.
Most Americans actually think these events are new, at which point i direct them to the Bath School Disaster.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:horrible. and senseless. and...becoming very common.
but...the real tragedy to me, is not the shooting itself...it's that i am not shocked or surprised by it at all. living in a country where there are on average 87 violent gun deaths a day (not counting suicides) i don't see how anyone is taken aback by these occurrences.
it's practically...idk...tolerable. A Whole 87? In a country of 300 million people and 270 million guns (we have more guns than cars)? Put another way, 299,999,913 people don't get shot by anyone every day in America.
ONE is too many.
You seem to be condoning or something. Making it sound "OK". -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1319
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:You don't seem to understand that these people are psychologically unhinged, and will do their actions no matter what. Precisely, They WILL do that no matter what. So the onus is on the rest of us to put in place a society where they're stopped as soon as they start doing any damage. With a bullet in the face. From the first armed bystander.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Plus, people would use them on a much more casual basis, so yes it would be a whole lot worse. They would absolutely have to be checked before entering a bar, that's for sure. Who's gonna handle that aspect? Nobody, you would not check them out at a bar. It would be the self-selection of the most well-behaved. The rest die out in a few years when the entire bar opens up on them when they get rowdy. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
Kirjava
E X C E P T I O N
156
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
In before Falcon.
I know Americas not my country, but I'ma gonna stick my nose in anyway and hope something sticks. We live in an age of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles with multi megaton nuclear warheads. I know that Washington could not of conceived of this, so the best deterrent was having an armed population like Switzerland. Surely it changes the risk/rewards if it loses all intimidation from an outside aggressor, and serves only to enable greater violence capability by those predisposed towards it?
People snap like this everywhere in the world, but in the US its easy to get a gun whereas the mere difficulty in places like the UK means that while determined criminals do get them, psychopaths find it near impossible. We did disarm ourselves, and the USA is not incapable of doing it either.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
640
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
The school attacks in China in 2010-2011 kill 21 people and left 90 wounded.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
baltec1
Bat Country
3300
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Akita T wrote:You know what would be fun ? Mandatory concealed gun laws for anybody above 16. That's all teachers and school personnel, and last two grades of highschool. As in, you're fined if you DO NOT have a loaded functional gun on your person at all times when you're out and in your house when you're in. Let's see how many random "mass killing" shooters we still have in a few years. It would be like trying to rob a police precinct. Of course, the number of actual gun-related wounds and deaths will go up a lot, but not in mass shootings, just a lot of isolated incidents.
I think the mass shootings would go up.
Some madman opens fire in a mall and everyone pulls a gun out... |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:You don't seem to understand that these people are psychologically unhinged, and will do their actions no matter what. Precisely, They WILL do that no matter what. So the onus is on the rest of us to put in place a society where they're stopped as soon as they start doing any damage. With a bullet in the face. From the first armed bystander. Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Plus, people would use them on a much more casual basis, so yes it would be a whole lot worse. They would absolutely have to be checked before entering a bar, that's for sure. Who's gonna handle that aspect? Nobody, you would not check them out at a bar. It would be the self-selection of the most well-behaved. The rest die out in a few years when the entire bar opens up on them when they get rowdy.
Too Draconian and Totalitarian.
Better idea is to move to Europe where this is much more rare.
I know the French would just love a mass influx of Americans -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
640
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:horrible. and senseless. and...becoming very common.
but...the real tragedy to me, is not the shooting itself...it's that i am not shocked or surprised by it at all. living in a country where there are on average 87 violent gun deaths a day (not counting suicides) i don't see how anyone is taken aback by these occurrences.
it's practically...idk...tolerable. A Whole 87? In a country of 300 million people and 270 million guns (we have more guns than cars)? Put another way, 299,999,913 people don't get shot by anyone every day in America. ONE is too many. You seem to be condoning or something. Making it sound "OK".
keeping things in context is what I'm doing, getting historical dosen't solve anything. in fact, it leads to bad law making (which is why laws named after people are usually bad things).
There is no perfect world, people die everywhere. It's not that it is not a tragedy or we shouldn't strive for better, but you sometimes have to accept that bad things happen on earth sometimes. I wear a Kevlar vest and a side arm to work everyday because of these realities.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
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Alara IonStorm
3843
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:I know the French would just love a mass influx of Americans They didn't mind so much in 1944...
And yes they brought their guns then too. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1319
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Too Draconian and Totalitarian. Draconian, maybe. Totalitarian ? Quite the opposite. Let's see a government try to be unpleasant to a heavily and always armed populace.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Better idea is to move to Europe where this is much more rare. I live in Romania. Gun crime is as good as unheard of. But there's plenty of other reasons to be afraid of being out in public. And I would totally love to have the right to carry a gun for protection (and NOT just protection from other people).
Back to my previous missed edit...
Give the ones with unchecked aggressive tendencies the chance to express them as soon as possible, and get eliminated from the gene pool in the process. Yes, it will be very painful the first few years, and it would be worse for a generation or two, but it will be a whole lot better afterwards. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
15
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:horrible. and senseless. and...becoming very common.
but...the real tragedy to me, is not the shooting itself...it's that i am not shocked or surprised by it at all. living in a country where there are on average 87 violent gun deaths a day (not counting suicides) i don't see how anyone is taken aback by these occurrences.
it's practically...idk...tolerable. A Whole 87? In a country of 300 million people and 270 million guns (we have more guns than cars)? Put another way, 299,999,913 people don't get shot by anyone every day in America.
what exactly are you defending here? or trying to imply?
i'm not saying we should live in fear of people having guns or access to guns...i'm saying there is a problem. one that should be recognized and addressed.
87 a day might not seem like much when stuck up against the nations entire population but...87 is a lot per capita. that's 31,755 deaths a year. unnecessary deaths. considering most other nations have their fair share of whackos and have nowhere near the violence rate we have. what's different about them?
what about drunk drivers? how many do they kill a year? surely it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the national population but would you say drunk driving is not a problem? |
Elias Greyhand
2710
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
I declare the USA no longer a civilized nation.
People die every day whether it's by inattention, malice, lack of sense or choice but any country where it seems it's as easy to get a gun as it is a library book doesn't get the title civilized.
And I'm going to end there before I descend in to a frothing rant at American "culture". "That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged." |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1319
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:what about drunk drivers? how many do they kill a year? surely it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the national population but would you say drunk driving is not a problem? Sarcasm mode on... Let's outlaw personal cars ! Let there only be public transportation ! And the license to drive a public vehicle should be a lot harder to obtain ! Sarcasm mode off.
Both are a problem. Restricting access to the tool that can do the damage is however not the best solution. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Elias Greyhand wrote:I declare the USA no longer a civilized nation.
People die every day whether it's by inattention, malice, lack of sense or choice but any country where it seems it's as easy to get a gun as it is a library book doesn't get the title civilized.
And I'm going to end there before I descend in to a frothing rant at American "culture".
Yeah, and as far as the arguments FOR guns go:
True, people kill with knives, cars, planes & guns. One of these, however, has no purpose besides killing. Spare me the false equivalence. -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1964
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Wow, the blood dance started fast.
So the windup toy in Oregon didn't pull up a good body count, they sent in another one.
Nice to see something happen 3000 miles away and have to fear peoples' knee-jerking reactions more.
The last time everybody pee'd themselves and got more laws passed, the PATRIOT Act was passed.
Oh well. Nobody is going to give up their guns, and those who want that are not ready to have cops thrust a uniform and a rifle at them and say "you do it".
Expect the usual.
Fire up the activism.... |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
The Python Cartel.
4395
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Elias Greyhand wrote:I declare the USA no longer a civilized nation.
People die every day whether it's by inattention, malice, lack of sense or choice but any country where it seems it's as easy to get a gun as it is a library book doesn't get the title civilized.
And I'm going to end there before I descend in to a frothing rant at American "culture".
Do you want us to introduce democracy to your country? "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Draconian, maybe. Totalitarian ? Quite the opposite. Let's see a government try to be unpleasant to a heavily and always armed populace.
one problem with this idea is...the government has tanks. and stealth bombers and many other neato death gadgetry that your everyday citizen in a nation does not and will never have access to. kinda tips the balance in their direction. |
Zimmy Zeta
Paramount Commerce
3863
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Elias Greyhand wrote:I declare the USA no longer a civilized nation.
People die every day whether it's by inattention, malice, lack of sense or choice but any country where it seems it's as easy to get a gun as it is a library book doesn't get the title civilized.
And I'm going to end there before I descend in to a frothing rant at American "culture".
How very comfortable that there are now 27 persons less for you to hate... It's mathematics, son. You can argue with me, but you can't argue with figures |
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