The (minute to non-existent) cost of living.

nullsec tried to destroy the metal...

When did Eve go f2p?

I doubt it helps your arguments about the high sec economy to refer to it's players as 'carebears' when it seems to me that a large population moves in and out of high and lowsec according to what they want to do at that moment.

I (and most other players, I would assume) don't bother with null because it's already well-known that there's not any spot in null for the solo explorer or the person who doesn't want to be part of a huge alliance and PvP constantly. Too much risk, no reward. You can't fault people in highsec for following the core principle of the game.

You know something is wrong when a single high sec system has more industry slots than entire regions of null.

Interesting points, thanks.

I very carefully avoid using the word "carebear" as it is derogatory. I guess others in this thread may have used it but I don't.

6) I pay my subscription so I should be able to play however I want, itGÇÖs a SANDBOX.

- This is not the meaning of a sandbox, I pay my sub too, can I have a ship that respawns? No, because it would be too damaging to industry. In the same way a super safe High Sec with massive rewards is too damaging to the rest of the game and overall balance.

7) If High Sec were nerfed ship costs would increase massively and that is bad.

- The absolute price of ships doesnGÇÖt really matter, what matters is how much effort it takes to get set up with a ship that can compete, whether a battleship or a mining barge. With a more dynamic eco-system outside High Sec the barriers to entry for all professions would be lower and so the fact that an individual ship costs more would not matter.

8) High Sec is the empire and null is the wildlands, so the industry should be in High.

- Actually there are very stable empires in null built by the hard work of many people and yet they cannot sustain a fraction of the industry that is handed, for free, to High Sec. This is a great detriment to the game and a bad message to future players, GÇ£donGÇÖt work hard, you canGÇÖt do better than staying in the system you started inGÇ¥.

- For Risk and Reward to balance an area that is safe should be low value, and a dangerous area should be high value, having a high value safe area distorts everything and spoils a fundamental mechanic of the game, no wonder 71% of people live in High Sec.

But null sec is empty--- wait, is it still empty today?? I can't keep up with whether it's empty or not, fun or not, profitable or not...

But I should just wait until tomorrow. I'm sure another loser will post about how null is empty and/or high sec needs to be nerfed because of--- whatever the excuse is this week.

Why shouldn't EVE mirror that reality?

A nerf doesnGÇÖt mean taking away any activities, it simply means making them less profitable. If missions paid 1% less they would still be worth it, what if it was 10% or 15%? You can still mine if the roids yield 8% less ore per cycle. You can do everything you can do now, just for less profit.

Many players who live in null are involved in trade and industry, many of them have allies and friends, they donGÇÖt just shoot everyone they see for no reason.

Maybe if you wander in unannounced. Many players live in null quite happily, itGÇÖs a case of knowing how to survive there and making some friends and itGÇÖs really not too hard.

The safety of some regions of null is the result of the great efforts of many well organised, dedicated players. The fact their space is safe is a result of their hard work. Many alliances now recruit new players, this would be more common if industry were more viable in null.

Again a solo retriever is a tempting target but a combined fleet of PVPers and miners/PVEers with warp core stabilisers and scouts would be much harder to take down. Again itGÇÖs feasible; it just requires some skill and some friends.

This is not the meaning of a sandbox, I pay my sub too, can I have a ship that respawns? No, because it would be too damaging to industry. In the same way a super safe High Sec with massive rewards is too damaging to the rest of the game and overall balance.

The absolute price of ships doesnGÇÖt really matter, what matters is how much effort it takes to get set up with a ship that can compete, whether a battleship or a mining barge. With a more dynamic eco-system outside High Sec the barriers to entry for all professions would be lower and so the fact that an individual ship costs more would not matter.

Actually there are very stable empires in null built by the hard work of many people and yet they cannot sustain a fraction of the industry that is handed, for free, to High Sec.

For Risk and Reward to balance an area that is safe should be low value, and a dangerous area should be high value, having a high value safe area distorts everything and spoils a fundamental mechanic of the game, no wonder 71% of people live in High Sec.

The fact that 71% of toons live in High Sec is a clear indication that it is too good and may be in need of a Nerf.

Industrialists donGÇÖt want big piles of ore and ships, they want to sell them for ISK, the people who buy them are the ones who had ships destroyed because they took a risk and were unlucky. So the whole industrial market is the players, PVPers and PVEers everywhere. Asking to be left alone makes no sense, weGÇÖre all in this together.

it really isnGÇÖt, diversity in the game is obviously really important, the vast majority of players specialise and that is a good thing. This is about balancing the regions of the game.

No player caused the problems null is now facing.

This isnGÇÖt an emotional argument itGÇÖs about balancing game dynamics. There are trolls and griefers in EVE, thatGÇÖs part of it, this isnGÇÖt by or about them.

3) My rough analogy to lowsec/highsec is, like most people, the Wild West of the 19th Century versus the populated East. Yes, even in the deepest areas of the Wild West, there were relative pockets of tranquility where people could live much more safely than in the wild on their own. None of them, however, had the industrial capabilities of the East. There was no Piedmont or anything like it in most of the West, and even to this day, more than 100 years after settling the West was a done deal, there are large swaths of the country that don't support heavy industry. Why shouldn't EVE mirror that reality?

lol, ok that's absurd, but to respond to the point you made



It's from the fanfest 2012 state of the economy video which can be found here. You are right, maybe it would be fair to say "toons" rather than "players" when referring to where people live. However every toon has a player behind it, even if that player has many toons.

didnt read the huge wall of text you posted

Where would you recommend someone who just wants to build and sell stuff, to make ISK, play EVE?

Where would you recommend someone run a PoS play if he doesn't have the skills to build super caps?

Yeah, I hear real life is really imbalanced. RL is dying, just like EVE.

I like that 2 pages after I asked these two really simple questions...

I, like every other person, know very well what the answer to those questions are.

Willful ignorance never fixes anything.

friday they both die

For many corp sizes and industrial operations this will remain the case even if highsec NPC industrial infrastructure is nerfed and low/nullsec is buffed.

It's not simply a matter of building incentive, but knowing you are capable of reasonably being able to utilize and defend your ability to produce things.

Here is a more than likely terribly thought out rookie idea, how about downsizing the potential number of bodies in any given corp/alliance. Then work on making corp/alliance controlled areas give real perks to the owners.

Would that lessen the 'blob', or a least make many of them.

That's diplomacy, not mechanics.

There are no mechanics to govern whether or not someone is your friend or not, and as an industrial corp you should have an emphesis on making friends. It's usually good for business.


Dude is corpless. He just wants to build and sell stuff. He's perfectly fine with playing in a more risky part of space.
You and I both run indy corps; mine in null, and yours in high. We both want to recruit corpless dude.

Who do you think is likely to get that guy to play in his corp, if his only concern is where it is best to build and sell stuff?

Actuallly wait? Nerf high sec and lets see how long Nullsec will die once and for all since 90% goods is exported from Highsec to support the war machine