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leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 20:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
damn thread nuking bug. this is something I've been thinking about for a while now. since I'm in a corp full of miners I didn't really have anyone to bounce these numbers off of to take it easy on me, they are probably way out of proportion or altering the wrong thing. these are skills that are supposed to affect all ships of the related races ships. it's to try and get people into using their races set of weapons on their ships. the theory behind it is that although the ships would be different in the overall functionality, they would still have many similarities. so here it is. core gallente functionality: 2.5 to tracking speed of blasters and 4% to the flight speed of drones per level secondary gallente functionality: 5% to effectiveness and range of stasis webifiers per level.
core amarr functionality: 2.5% to sig radius of laser turrets, and 4% less capacitor used for laser turrets per level secondary amarr functionality: 5% to the effectiveness of energy vampire and energy transfer arrays per level. as well as 2.5% more capacitor used for the activation of energy transfer arrays per level
core caldari functionality: 2.5% to the flight speed and travel time of missiles, and 4% to the optimal range of railguns per level secondary caldari functionality: 5% to the effectiveness of ECM and ECCM modules per level
core minmatar functionality: 2.5 to (I can't think of something to put here that will not directly increase DPS), and 4% to the falloff of projectile weapons per level secondary minmatar functionality: 5% to the effectiveness of target painters per level
the two I feel really need to be looked at are the amarr secondary and the 2.5% for the minmatar core skill. I have one for the amarr, but it's somewhat of a background effect while the other 3 are bonuses to force multipliers. and as I said at the beginning, don't flame, give numbers that you think would fit or change what is modified, or just change the entire thing. this is a raw plan, but I think it would add more flavor to combat.
EDIT1: I forgot to mention pirate ships. it could be done that all 4 related skills affect those but at a diminished level such as somewhere between 25%-75% of the effect of the skill. or it could use the primary of one race while using the secondary of the other. |
Spr09
Purdue Engineering and Technology Talocan United
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 21:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
all ships have a race based bonus, click on the description and at the bottom of every one it says "xx% bonus to y per level" |
Smofuggra
Creep Factory Interspacial Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 23:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
A quicker solution would be to have each race and or subsequent bloodline have a static bonus to piloting their particular race of ships.
Caldari pilots would all receive a bonus to missile explosion velocity.
Achura receive that bonus plus some kind of additional industrial bonus...
Just a thought but meh. |
Sphit Ker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2011.10.06 23:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
yes sure. Racial bonuses. Screw the specifics 'cause I don't agree with half you've said but I get the idea and I can get behind that.
I believe you meant to say bonus to signature resolution, not sig radius. |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 02:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Smofuggra wrote:A quicker solution would be to have each race and or subsequent bloodline have a static bonus to piloting their particular race of ships.
Caldari pilots would all receive a bonus to missile explosion velocity.
Achura receive that bonus plus some kind of additional industrial bonus...
Just a thought but meh.
ya, we could do that, but I want it to still be possible for people to fly other ships equally with others. but that would also prevent people from race hopping as much as they commonly do.and I actually approve of stopping that. and I'm aware there are ship specific skills, or ship class specific skills, but I mean everything from the noobship to the titans of one race are affected by the skills. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
21
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Posted - 2011.10.07 05:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
I vote no, because one the major appeals of skilling in EVE is that it's universal.
I started off Minmatar for fleets, then trained up Caldari for solo/small gang stuff. Why should I be locked into a decision I made back before I knew anything other than "Minmatar = Space Negro"? |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 06:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:I vote no, because one the major appeals of skilling in EVE is that it's universal.
I started off Minmatar for fleets, then trained up Caldari for solo/small gang stuff. Why should I be locked into a decision I made back before I knew anything other than "Minmatar = Space Negro"?
I'm not saying you're stuck with it, it's a skill you can train to be more effective with an entire race of ships. but if you want to go fly another race you can go buy the skill and train it up. it's just that since you trained in your races ships, you are far more familiar with them off the bat. however if we made them embedded in your race they would probably be a lower amount meaning that you can get a bonus, but it could be negated by playing skills and underdeveloped character skills. one thing that I've been thinking about is having it have a long training time like an X8-X10 training time. but doing that would make the newbies have a massive pile of SP, so maybe make it have something like /8 - /10 training time, meaning that it has a similar number of SP as a level 1 skill but it trans 8-10 time slower. by doing this it will force people to take time to train up this skill but still make it feasible for newbies to have high levels of this skill as the start. |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.08 08:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've been watching the gallente thread and one thing that came up was making the gallente pretty much entirely a drone based race. so if that were the case, the bonuses could be changed so that the minmatar get the gal secondary bonus, and the gal bonus turns into: gallente core functionality: 2.5% to drone tracking speed, and 4% to the travel speed of drones gallente secondary functionality: 20% to the size of a ships drone bay per level. or gallente secondary functionality: 5% to the control range of drones per level. this affects the bonus from drone link augmenters too.
the first one would allow the gallente to field formidable fleets of drones that would not be easily wiped out, but breaks the pattern of using 5% in the secondary bonus skill. the second one allows you to use them as longer range weapons, or better snipers when using sentries, however leaves the gallente open to having their primary point of damage destroyed and gone by not having replacements. |
5talfo5
Fracture.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.08 12:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
I would like them to implement somthing along these lines, although I'd prefer they were a bit more universal - so that bonuses to tracking are for all turrets not just hybrid.
There really needs to be more difference between the races other than the starting ship skills u get, like Bloodlines used to give different attributes such as +4 will or +2 perception +2 will. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
36
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Posted - 2011.10.08 15:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
5talfo5 wrote:I would like them to implement somthing along these lines, although I'd prefer they were a bit more universal - so that bonuses to tracking are for all turrets not just hybrid.
There really needs to be more difference between the races other than the starting ship skills u get, like Bloodlines used to give different attributes such as +4 will or +2 perception +2 will.
Can all of us that created characters before implementation change races? In any case, rather than that, just let us remap some attributes to zero and others to max. |
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
23
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Posted - 2011.10.09 00:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP has moved away from this model I doubt theyll move back to it. |
Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
4
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Posted - 2011.10.09 02:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
They did consider adding various bonuses such as Race and Education. However, since they were never released...
The problem is, there's nothing mystical about spaceships. There's no reason why my genetics or upbringing should make a piece of equipment perform differently for me than anyone else with the same level of training.
A german driving a VW, and an american driving a chevy, are racing on a straight stretch of road. At the far end, they get out and switch cars, and then race back to the beginning. Who wins?
Now if there were racial bonuses tied to the T3s, since the excuse for losing SP is some form of symbiosis with the ship... I'd go for that. A Gallente flying a Proteus should get some perk compared to flying a Legion instead. |
Avalon Stormborn
Custodes Fati
9
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Posted - 2011.10.09 03:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
I would personally love racial bonuses. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2011.10.09 04:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
NO!!!
I say no because most players that are starting their first character have no idea what they're getting into.
They're just creating a character.
My main is a gallente pilot, but I later decided I prefered missile boats.
So, because I was never given any experience that would allow me to know which race I wanted to fly for, I would be punished, even though it's something I couldn't control.
Also, what about pirate ships??? They're cross faction, would they get both, just your race bonus, or none?
What if your race bonus was for gallente, but you were in a rattlesnake which would do better with caldari bonuses?
Basically what I'm saying is not only would the imbalance the game, but it would also punish players that had no experience with the game before making their character, but later decided they prefered a difference race's battleships...
It's not a matter of race hopping, it's more a matter of not knowing which race I was going to prefer before making a character.
That's why CCP needs to set up the 2 week trial period to be seperate and give you experience with everything, instead of just you picking a race and being thrown into the frying pan. |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.09 06:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:NO!!!
I say no because most players that are starting their first character have no idea what they're getting into.
They're just creating a character.
My main is a gallente pilot, but I later decided I prefered missile boats.
So, because I was never given any experience that would allow me to know which race I wanted to fly for, I would be punished, even though it's something I couldn't control.
as I stated, this is a set of skills. not hardwired into your race. so if a newbie gallente pilot goes and flies caldari they will do fairly well, and by the time their skills would mean anything they probably would have picked up these skills.
Joe Risalo wrote:Also, what about pirate ships??? They're cross faction, would they get both, just your race bonus, or none?
What if your race bonus was for gallente, but you were in a rattlesnake which would do better with caldari bonuses?
I accounted for that in the first post. it would either be 50-50 of all the related skills (if you have them) or it could take the dominant race to pick the skills for. since it's shield based, uses missiles, and based off a cal hull it would get cal bonuses. but as for that, it would have to be ironed out by the devs as to how they felt it would fit best.
Joe Risalo wrote:That's why CCP needs to set up the 2 week trial period to be seperate and give you experience with everything, instead of just you picking a race and being thrown into the frying pan.
I actually thought the "here it is, you're going to die" introduction was actually pretty awesome. I actually prefer that over other MMOs where you are getting hints and tips to do everything, and in the case of WoW (I'm sorry for having to say that) giving you an achievement for managing to walk forwards.
oh, and marcus, I'm taking it more like how you would interact with a computer. sure you can use general skills on all computers like how to browse, how to interact with programs. but once you get used to a certain operating system or in most cases a brand of OSes you can be a lot more efficient by using keyboard shortcuts. knowing how to speed things up, optimize, and get to the files, folders, programs that you need faster. I know for a fact that given a Linux computer or a Mac I could use them, and I could interact with them at a decent level. but nowhere near as effectively as I can with a windows computer. |
Aglais
Northern Star PVP Solutions
0
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Posted - 2011.10.09 19:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
I never, ever fit railguns on any ship I ever fly. Ever.
There is no purpose in fitting them when artillery does their job far better than they do. So essentially, part of the Caldari race bonus is entirely worthless, because railguns are currently the ****-tier turrets. |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 05:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aglais wrote:I never, ever fit railguns on any ship I ever fly. Ever.
There is no purpose in fitting them when artillery does their job far better than they do. So essentially, part of the Caldari race bonus is entirely worthless, because railguns are currently the ****-tier turrets.
yes, but that's the caldari gun. not to mention that they are being "looked at" in the winter. so it sounds like they will (hopefully) be getting a little better at least. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
65
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Posted - 2011.10.10 06:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marcus Gideon wrote: The problem is, there's nothing mystical about spaceships. There's no reason why my genetics or upbringing should make a piece of equipment perform differently for me than anyone else with the same level of training.
A german driving a VW, and an american driving a chevy, are racing on a straight stretch of road. At the far end, they get out and switch cars, and then race back to the beginning. Who wins?
Now if there were racial bonuses tied to the T3s, since the excuse for losing SP is some form of symbiosis with the ship... I'd go for that. A Gallente flying a Proteus should get some perk compared to flying a Legion instead.
I pretty much agree with this sentiment.
Not Supported. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 07:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Marcus Gideon wrote: The problem is, there's nothing mystical about spaceships. There's no reason why my genetics or upbringing should make a piece of equipment perform differently for me than anyone else with the same level of training.
A german driving a VW, and an american driving a chevy, are racing on a straight stretch of road. At the far end, they get out and switch cars, and then race back to the beginning. Who wins?
Now if there were racial bonuses tied to the T3s, since the excuse for losing SP is some form of symbiosis with the ship... I'd go for that. A Gallente flying a Proteus should get some perk compared to flying a Legion instead.
I pretty much agree with this sentiment. Not Supported.
I already responded to this. these ships we are flying are a hell of a lot more complex than a car, they are more like a computer in their intricacies.
Quote:oh, and marcus, I'm taking it more like how you would interact with a computer. sure you can use general skills on all computers like how to browse, how to interact with programs. but once you get used to a certain operating system or in most cases a brand of OSes you can be a lot more efficient by using keyboard shortcuts. knowing how to speed things up, optimize, and get to the files, folders, programs that you need faster. I know for a fact that given a Linux computer or a Mac I could use them, and I could interact with them at a decent level. but nowhere near as effectively as I can with a windows computer. |
Sir Substance
Tactical Knightmare
49
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Posted - 2011.10.10 07:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
leviticus ander wrote: secondary gallente functionality: 5% to effectiveness and range of stasis webifiers per level.
Points immediately lost for knowing so little about the game that you would specify the minmatar T2 ewar specialty as gallente core functionality.
I don't like it, because I don't accept the premise that you SHOULD use that races weapons on that races ships. Nothing makes combat boring faster then predictable setups. Quirky setups like arty apocs are part of what makes eve interesting. |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
65
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Posted - 2011.10.10 07:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
leviticus ander wrote: I already responded to this. these ships we are flying are a hell of a lot more complex than a car, they are more like a computer in their intricacies.
And being of a different race makes you more or less able to learn and understand certain computing languages/systems?
That's like saying a person who learns a second language will never be able to speak it fluently. Or that a botanist who was raised by computer engineers will never be as "good" as a person who was raised by other botanists.
Quote:oh, and marcus, I'm taking it more like how you would interact with a computer. sure you can use general skills on all computers like how to browse, how to interact with programs. but once you get used to a certain operating system or in most cases a brand of OSes you can be a lot more efficient by using keyboard shortcuts. knowing how to speed things up, optimize, and get to the files, folders, programs that you need faster. I know for a fact that given a Linux computer or a Mac I could use them, and I could interact with them at a decent level. but nowhere near as effectively as I can with a windows computer.
If you WANT to be better at utilizing Lunux or Macs then you must use them more often, read the manuals, and stay up to date with all of their technical specifications. Just because you "are more familiar" with Windows-based PCs it doesn't mean you have an automatic handicap in learning a new system. In fact... you have an advantage over someone who is learning computers for the first time in their life as you UNDERSTAND the underlying principles behind the software/technology.
The same can be said for most other activities. If you sail small dingy and become intimately familiar with the mechanics and principles behind sailing then it isn't that "hard" to move up into larger and different types of boats... it's just a matter of learning how said boats operate. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 17:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:Points immediately lost for knowing so little about the game that you would specify the minmatar T2 ewar specialty as gallente core functionality.
I don't like it, because I don't accept the premise that you SHOULD use that races weapons on that races ships. Nothing makes combat boring faster then predictable setups. Quirky setups like arty apocs are part of what makes eve interesting.
I am aware of that. however because of the inability for gal ships to dictate range of a fight with pretty much anyone, it would be needed that they can web people more effectively to keep them under the gal guns. I say more effectively since just because a gal ships has a web to hold their target still, that does not mean that their target does not have a web going back to equally slow them and get away.
Quote:And being of a different race makes you more or less able to learn and understand certain computing languages/systems?
That's like saying a person who learns a second language will never be able to speak it fluently. Or that a botanist who was raised by computer engineers will never be as "good" as a person who was raised by other botanists.
no, it's a skill that you can train to become more effective at flying these ships. training a skill is eve is the same concept as reading manuals, trying things out, figuring out what's going on. I'm just saying that a race is familiar with their ships to start with since they were trained on that set of systems.
Quote:The same can be said for most other activities. If you sail small dingy and become intimately familiar with the mechanics and principles behind sailing then it isn't that "hard" to move up into larger and different types of boats... it's just a matter of learning how said boats operate.
now as to making it easier to learn these skills once you have a good baseline in one of the pairs of skills might not be possible in eve due to the training method. |
DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2011.10.10 18:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Smofuggra wrote:A quicker solution would be to have each race and or subsequent bloodline have a static bonus to piloting their particular race of ships.
Caldari pilots would all receive a bonus to missile explosion velocity.
Achura receive that bonus plus some kind of additional industrial bonus...
Just a thought but meh.
Yes, agreed. A "familily history" of scientific study sets one up for much better quality of research and industrial bonuses recieved. That scientist can make a living as a military or mercenary pilot, just not as well as others born into those fields.
So, going against your natural born tenancies as a Scientist can be done, just your true destiny lies in scientific study. The opposite is also true; if the blood of a military strategist or mercenary flows through your veins, you can succeed in scientific study but will never be top of your field.
When is the last time you saw IRL a Cambridge Scholar in Economics slaughter the enemy on the field of battle; most cold-hard killers on the field of battle are not known for their abilities in scientific research. It is possible but very unlikely for people to succeed in fields they do not have innate ability in.
The same should follow for EVE. Racial bonuses help your piloting ships of your race. Sub-racial bonuses help to further push the envelope. Descendants of mercenaries have trade bonuses; family military histories make every breath be focused on war; and scientific bloodlines ensure greatness in research and manufacturing. |
Marie Hartinez
Aries Munitions and Defense
8
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Posted - 2011.10.10 18:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Not supported in the least.
If these skills were added to the game, they would become, like the learning skills in the past, the most haves.
Back when learning skills were around, the going idea was that new players MUST train them first in order to be better. If CCP adds racial bonus skills, then we will have that problem once again.
We already have a good mix of general purpose support skills for ships and specific support skills for weapon systems. Surrender is still your slightly less painful option. |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.30 08:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
getting back to this thread, I guess they could become like the learning skills. but you could also say the same thing about things like capacitor skills. you can choose to ignore them and fly fairly well, or you can train them and have much better fits that do a much better job. and I could see problems with making them based off of who you are since, as was stated, people like to train out of what they are, and for many people, being stuck with something they randomly chose and making them useless in what they want to do would be quite harsh. and as was stated in the original post, when you started a new character you would get the skills for your races ships trained up some already. meaning even if they are clueless about these skills they would still be getting a good bonus from these skills.
EDIT: oh and one thing that it seems I ignored, I don't want one skill to effect all the guns because I want people to actually have a reason to use their racial systems. like not putting ACs on a myrm. or artys on a domi. |
Ostraka Kadesh
Dextarius Rieos Coalition
5
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Posted - 2011.10.30 12:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Why not have a (Race) Symbiosis skill, of which you can only ever train one? That way, any race can have a "racial" advantage with their own, or any other race's, ships. |
cornholio508
Berserking Roid Beavers Damned Nation
3
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Posted - 2011.10.30 13:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
leviticus ander wrote: oh and one thing that it seems I ignored, I don't want one skill to effect all the guns because I want people to actually have a reason to use their racial systems. like not putting ACs on a myrm. or artys on a domi.
NO gain this is pointless as many people have said . It will only destroy the game for new players and restrict them to ships they may not want to fly . On top of that could you imagine the change it would make to the game mechanics . Pirate vessels would no longer be as specialized as they are . PVP would have to be reworked with new mechanics as god knows how the stats would actually effect the game .
That said each ship has its own bonuses . The higher you train the skill the higher the bonus gets . Simple as that that . Now maybe if it was a small bit faster to train race specific skills for that races ship then that's another story . |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.10.30 15:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
make it not racial but role bonus :p so everybody could pick what they want |
leviticus ander
FMOFMC
0
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Posted - 2011.10.30 18:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:make it not racial but role bonus :p so everybody could pick what they want well that's pretty much what the ship skills do.
and ostraka, that would possibly be even worse since if a newbie saw the skill and jumped on it without knowing what it means then they would just screw themselves. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
149
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Posted - 2011.10.30 20:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
leviticus ander wrote:I've been watching the gallente thread and one thing that came up was making the gallente pretty much entirely a drone based race.
*sigh* Drones are a "SECONDARY" weapon for the Gallente... NOT the "primary." Only 12 of the 38 Gallente ships are, by definition, "droneboats"...the rest use hybrid weapons as a primary weapon system in some fashion.
Quote:getting back to this thread, I guess they could become like the learning skills.
So basically you want to create a new set of skills that people HAVE to train in order to get the full "effectiveness" out of different racial ships. For that reason alone I cannot support your idea.
Quote:oh and one thing that it seems I ignored, I don't want one skill to effect all the guns because I want people to actually have a reason to use their racial systems. like not putting ACs on a myrm. or artys on a domi.
Being "encouraged" to use your own "racial" weapons is already done via ship bonuses. The fact that people prefer projectiles on Gallente ships is because of the "problems" surrounding hybrid weapons (i.e. projectiles are simply superior to hybrids, even with the hull bonuses for hybrids). Plus, there is flexibility to consider as well. Many players like to "tinker" with their fits and that often does mean using weapons, mods, and ewar that is not "native" to the ship hull they are using. Such flexibility keep the battlefield fresh with new tactics. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
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