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Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have noticed recently that when corp mates are duelling, by repping them with a logi the logi is gaining a suspect flag. This is in wormhole space.
Now, this isn't a major issue in the wormhole, it just means the logistics has to stay in the wormhole for 15 minutes after repping someone, annoying, but not game breaking.
The issue comes when you have a fleet with logistics in low sec. The logistics get a suspect flag and become viable target to EVERYONE. So if a nuetral fleet join in they can kill the logistics and your fleet cannot fight them back without being shot by gate guns and taking a criminal and security hit.
Even more game breaking, if the fleet moves from low sec to high sec then the logistics ship will be a suspect to everyone in high sec. If someone engages the logistics the fleet will be concorded enless they sit back and let everyone kill their logistics ship!?
I was wondering if this is working as intended as it defies any logical or rational reasoning. |
Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
135
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't be dueling before you go to gate camps. Let others shoot first at gate and gain he guns. Choose other places to run other than highsec when you bug out. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1609
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_actions2flags.png
According to that it shouldn't be possible to get suspect from logi in a WH.
For suspect at all for that matter. The Drake is a Lie |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pyre leFay wrote:Don't be dueling before you go to gate camps. Let others shoot first at gate and gain he guns. Choose other places to run other than highsec when you bug out.
?
That isn't relevant to the issue I described and doesn't make sense. |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_actions2flags.png
According to that it shouldn't be possible to get suspect from logi in a WH.
For suspect at all for that matter.
Perhaps this is a bug then because I can confirm logistics ships are getting a suspect flag for repping in a wormhole at the moment.
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Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1609
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Pyre leFay wrote:Don't be dueling before you go to gate camps. Let others shoot first at gate and gain he guns. Choose other places to run other than highsec when you bug out. ? That isn't relevant to the issue I described and doesn't make sense.
Sure it is.
Pyre is saying if your duels are causing all this trouble cause it's making your logi vulnerable then simply don't dual or logi prior to going somewhere where it might be a problem.
But yes, it looks to be a bug. Use the in-game bug report tool to make things easy. You can even provide screenshots of having a suspect timer and stuff :D The Drake is a Lie |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 22:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Pyre leFay wrote:Don't be dueling before you go to gate camps. Let others shoot first at gate and gain he guns. Choose other places to run other than highsec when you bug out. ? That isn't relevant to the issue I described and doesn't make sense. Sure it is. Pyre is saying if your duels are causing all this trouble cause it's making your logi vulnerable then simply don't dual or logi prior to going somewhere where it might be a problem. But yes, it looks to be a bug. Use the in-game bug report tool to make things easy. You can even provide screenshots of having a suspect timer and stuff :D
Yes, will report it myself as it seems getting a suspect flag is wrong in a WH. As for avoiding this situation in low sec Pyre's point would not help as you cannot simply not give reps to your fleet mates otherwise what is the point in bringing the logistics ship.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2866
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
My understanding was that the Logi pilot is supposed to gain whatever flags their target has. If their target has no flags then yes there may be a bug at work.
If it is not a bug and there is no way around it for some obscure technical reason we may need to simply put up with it as being well worth the trouble to put an end to neutral logistics. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:My understanding was that the Logi pilot is supposed to gain whatever flags their target has. If their target has no flags then yes there may be a bug at work.
If it is not a bug and there is no way around it for some obscure technical reason we may need to simply put up with it as being well worth the trouble to put an end to neutral logistics.
Yes, that would make sense. But it seems the logi pilot is getting a suspect flag whereas your fleet simply have the PVP and weapons flag. I just was wondering if this is working as intended or if a possible fix will be on the horizon.
If working as intended it doesn't make sense as the fleet will have to either leave the logistics behind, or be prepared to take a security hit, get fired on by gate guns, and gain suspect flags themselves if anyone in low sec engages the logi. Also jumping into high sec will be a definite no as there is no way to protect the logi without being concorded. |
Ruvin
45
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:My understanding was that the Logi pilot is supposed to gain whatever flags their target has. If their target has no flags then yes there may be a bug at work.
If it is not a bug and there is no way around it for some obscure technical reason we may need to simply put up with it as being well worth the trouble to put an end to neutral logistics. Yes, that would make sense. But it seems the logi pilot is getting a suspect flag whereas your fleet simply have the PVP and weapons flag. I just was wondering if this is working as intended or if a possible fix will be on the horizon. If working as intended it doesn't make sense as the fleet will have to either leave the logistics behind, or be prepared to take a security hit, get fired on by gate guns, and gain suspect flags themselves if anyone in low sec engages the logi. Also jumping into high sec will be a definite no as there is no way to protect the logi without being concorded.
Were is the game breaking issue ? i clicked here for nothing ?
Read dev's blog's working as intended . Giving the criminal a "chance" jumping xx on 1 with a logi isnt a chance . The explanation so the target HAS a chance even small to fight back . scenario A : you kill him without logi pilot = gg no need for him to get a S flag scenario B : you CANT kill him without a logi pilot = criminal has a chance , if logi helps you someone can kill it
pretty fair Opportunities multiply as they are seized. |
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Psychotic Monk
Shadewalkers
435
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Confirming that sometimes logi gains a suspect flag when repping during corp-on-corp violence. Not always, just sometimes. Havn't yet narrowed down what's causing it. |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ruvin wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:My understanding was that the Logi pilot is supposed to gain whatever flags their target has. If their target has no flags then yes there may be a bug at work.
If it is not a bug and there is no way around it for some obscure technical reason we may need to simply put up with it as being well worth the trouble to put an end to neutral logistics. Yes, that would make sense. But it seems the logi pilot is getting a suspect flag whereas your fleet simply have the PVP and weapons flag. I just was wondering if this is working as intended or if a possible fix will be on the horizon. If working as intended it doesn't make sense as the fleet will have to either leave the logistics behind, or be prepared to take a security hit, get fired on by gate guns, and gain suspect flags themselves if anyone in low sec engages the logi. Also jumping into high sec will be a definite no as there is no way to protect the logi without being concorded. Were is the game breaking issue ? i clicked here for nothing ? Read dev's blog's working as intended . Giving the criminal a "chance" jumping xx on 1 with a logi isnt a chance . The explanation so the target HAS a chance even small to fight back . scenario A : you kill him without logi pilot = gg no need for him to get a S flag scenario B : you CANT kill him without a logi pilot = criminal has a chance , if logi helps you someone can kill it pretty fair
Interesting, could you link the dev blog?
Also your scenario involved xx jumping on 1, what if the situation is xx jumping on xx, then xx's friends come from the HS gate and attack the logi. If you try to engage them the gate guns will shoot you and also if you jump into HS after them you cannot shoot them but everyone can shoot at you. |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 22:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:Confirming that sometimes logi gains a suspect flag when repping during corp-on-corp violence. Not always, just sometimes. Havn't yet narrowed down what's causing it.
Yes, I will see if I can figure this one out also and submit a bug report. Im not familiar with the system but it seems that getting the suspect flag in a wormhole is definitely bugged. |
Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
135
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 22:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:As for avoiding this situation in low sec Pyre's point would not help as you cannot simply not give reps to your fleet mates otherwise what is the point in bringing the logistics ship.
Not shooting first Gëá not giving reps. |
Ruvin
45
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Ruvin wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:My understanding was that the Logi pilot is supposed to gain whatever flags their target has. If their target has no flags then yes there may be a bug at work.
If it is not a bug and there is no way around it for some obscure technical reason we may need to simply put up with it as being well worth the trouble to put an end to neutral logistics. Yes, that would make sense. But it seems the logi pilot is getting a suspect flag whereas your fleet simply have the PVP and weapons flag. I just was wondering if this is working as intended or if a possible fix will be on the horizon. If working as intended it doesn't make sense as the fleet will have to either leave the logistics behind, or be prepared to take a security hit, get fired on by gate guns, and gain suspect flags themselves if anyone in low sec engages the logi. Also jumping into high sec will be a definite no as there is no way to protect the logi without being concorded. Were is the game breaking issue ? i clicked here for nothing ? Read dev's blog's working as intended . Giving the criminal a "chance" jumping xx on 1 with a logi isnt a chance . The explanation so the target HAS a chance even small to fight back . scenario A : you kill him without logi pilot = gg no need for him to get a S flag scenario B : you CANT kill him without a logi pilot = criminal has a chance , if logi helps you someone can kill it pretty fair Interesting, could you link the dev blog? Also your scenario involved xx jumping on 1, what if the situation is xx jumping on xx, then xx's friends come from the HS gate and attack the logi. If you try to engage them the gate guns will shoot you and also if you jump into HS after them you cannot shoot them but everyone can shoot at you.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73443 <---- Blog clickz
Dont use xx for first party and for second ... use different letters xx = xx , but there are 2 parties . So players A attacks players B , B friends come to help , and kill the logi . Thats the right scenario ?
A can be replaced with xx , but let the B be something else like zz or yy :) Opportunities multiply as they are seized. |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pyre leFay wrote:Emu Meo wrote:As for avoiding this situation in low sec Pyre's point would not help as you cannot simply not give reps to your fleet mates otherwise what is the point in bringing the logistics ship.
Not shooting first Gëá not giving reps.
Exactly, you misunderstood the original post. This issue occurs simply by giving reps whether you shoot first or not does not come into it. |
Ruvin
45
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Pyre leFay wrote:Emu Meo wrote:As for avoiding this situation in low sec Pyre's point would not help as you cannot simply not give reps to your fleet mates otherwise what is the point in bringing the logistics ship.
Not shooting first Gëá not giving reps. Exactly, you misunderstood the original post. This issue occurs simply by giving reps whether you shoot first or not does not come into it.
Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag. This is to prevent neutral logistics interfering in ongoing combat without risk to themselves. Opportunities multiply as they are seized. |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 22:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ruvin wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Ruvin wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:My understanding was that the Logi pilot is supposed to gain whatever flags their target has. If their target has no flags then yes there may be a bug at work.
If it is not a bug and there is no way around it for some obscure technical reason we may need to simply put up with it as being well worth the trouble to put an end to neutral logistics. Yes, that would make sense. But it seems the logi pilot is getting a suspect flag whereas your fleet simply have the PVP and weapons flag. I just was wondering if this is working as intended or if a possible fix will be on the horizon. If working as intended it doesn't make sense as the fleet will have to either leave the logistics behind, or be prepared to take a security hit, get fired on by gate guns, and gain suspect flags themselves if anyone in low sec engages the logi. Also jumping into high sec will be a definite no as there is no way to protect the logi without being concorded. Were is the game breaking issue ? i clicked here for nothing ? Read dev's blog's working as intended . Giving the criminal a "chance" jumping xx on 1 with a logi isnt a chance . The explanation so the target HAS a chance even small to fight back . scenario A : you kill him without logi pilot = gg no need for him to get a S flag scenario B : you CANT kill him without a logi pilot = criminal has a chance , if logi helps you someone can kill it pretty fair Interesting, could you link the dev blog? Also your scenario involved xx jumping on 1, what if the situation is xx jumping on xx, then xx's friends come from the HS gate and attack the logi. If you try to engage them the gate guns will shoot you and also if you jump into HS after them you cannot shoot them but everyone can shoot at you. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73443 <---- Blog clickz Dont use xx for first party and for second ... use different letters xx = xx , but there are 2 parties . So players A attacks players B , B friends come to help , and kill the logi . Thats the right scenario ?
Ok thanks. Guess that confirms this is working as intended and will have to work out a way to manage the extra risk, although the issue of getting a suspect flag in the wormhole I will have to do more tests on.
And yes, that is the correct scenario I was describing. Was using XX's to describe a number of 10 or above. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2258
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 22:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ruvin wrote: Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag. This is to prevent neutral logistics interfering in ongoing combat without risk to themselves.
I think it should not be the case when the two people engaged in a Limited Engagement are in the same corporation as the logistics pilot providing the reps. When it's all green-on-green action, there should only be PvP and weapon timers to worry about.
edit: the point being that shooting at your corp mates does not trigger a suspect flag, so why should repping corpmates who are shooting at corpmates make a difference. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Ruvin
45
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Ruvin wrote: Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag. This is to prevent neutral logistics interfering in ongoing combat without risk to themselves.
I think it should not be the case when the two people engaged in a Limited Engagement are in the same corporation as the logistics pilot providing the reps. When it's all green-on-green action, there should only be PvP and weapon timers to worry about. edit: the point being that shooting at your corp mates does not trigger a suspect flag, so why should repping corpmates who are shooting at corpmates make a difference.
to give criminals a chance to defend themselves . Opportunities multiply as they are seized. |
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Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
I read through the blog, and the issue with logistics getting a suspect flag for helping during a limited engagements should only apply to high sec, not to low sec or WH space. I am not sure why this is occurring, and unless CCP has made any changes since the release of that dev blog then this is indeed a bug.
From what I understand the logistics will rightfully get all the flags of the person they are assisting. The exception is in high sec where they will also get a suspect flag. This should not though be occuring in WH space and in low sec according to the Dev blog. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2258
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 23:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ruvin wrote:to give criminals a chance to defend themselves .
What criminals? Who gets a suspect or criminal flag when corp mates shoot each other?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Ruvin
45
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:I read through the blog, and the issue with logistics getting a suspect flag for helping during a limited engagements should only apply to high sec, not to low sec or WH space. I am not sure why this is occurring, and unless CCP has made any changes since the release of that dev blog then this is indeed a bug.
From what I understand the logistics will rightfully get all the flags of the person they are assisting. The exception is in high sec where they will also get a suspect flag. This should not though be occuring in WH space and in low sec according to the Dev blog.
Special for you :
HIGH SEC = LOW SEC
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6435/123iyc.jpg Opportunities multiply as they are seized. |
Psychotic Monk
Shadewalkers
435
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 23:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nobody gets a suspect flag in corp-on-corp violence. Except very occationally neutral rr. For reasons unexplained. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
288
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
It's not only in WH - happens in hi-sec too. Somewhat annoying.
Good news: CONCORD ignore it. Though I'm not sure how is it visible to other players - if logi attack-able or not with this flag? |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ruvin wrote:Emu Meo wrote:I read through the blog, and the issue with logistics getting a suspect flag for helping during a limited engagements should only apply to high sec, not to low sec or WH space. I am not sure why this is occurring, and unless CCP has made any changes since the release of that dev blog then this is indeed a bug.
From what I understand the logistics will rightfully get all the flags of the person they are assisting. The exception is in high sec where they will also get a suspect flag. This should not though be occuring in WH space and in low sec according to the Dev blog. Special for you : HIGH SEC = LOW SEC http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6435/123iyc.jpgLOW SEC \= WH <---- 2 different things WH = NULLS <----- this should be same thing afaik
Incorrect. This is quoted according to the dev blog. "An LE is only effective in empire space" |
Ruvin
45
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:It's not only in WH - happens in hi-sec too. Somewhat annoying.
Good news: CONCORD ignore it. Though I'm not sure how is it visible to other players - if logi attack-able or not with this flag?
did you read the replies ? honnestly , dont think so amiright :D ? Opportunities multiply as they are seized. |
Ruvin
45
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Ruvin wrote:Emu Meo wrote:I read through the blog, and the issue with logistics getting a suspect flag for helping during a limited engagements should only apply to high sec, not to low sec or WH space. I am not sure why this is occurring, and unless CCP has made any changes since the release of that dev blog then this is indeed a bug.
From what I understand the logistics will rightfully get all the flags of the person they are assisting. The exception is in high sec where they will also get a suspect flag. This should not though be occuring in WH space and in low sec according to the Dev blog. Special for you : HIGH SEC = LOW SEC http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6435/123iyc.jpgLOW SEC \= WH <---- 2 different things WH = NULLS <----- this should be same thing afaik Incorrect. This is quoted according to the dev blog. "An LE is only effective in empire space"
Low sec is still empire space = concord and stuff ... just less of them ... and you even have a graph ... Since when empire is high sec ?
Check even eve trailers ? i think even first one introduction , empire = EMPIRE both high and low ... they get "colored" in trailer with colors when describing each race ......
Empire space, often shortened to "Empire", is the area of space where the four major factions, The Amarr Empire, Minmatar Republic, Caldari State, and Gallente Federation as well as The Khanid Kingdom and Ammatar Mandate, hold sovereignty. Empire space encompasses the space with a positive security rating (from 0.1 to 1.0). As sovereignty is already held by by one of the factions, alliances may not lay claim to sovereignty anywhere in Empire space.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eve+empire&l=1 <--- linky Opportunities multiply as they are seized. |
Emu Meo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ruvin wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Ruvin wrote:Emu Meo wrote:I read through the blog, and the issue with logistics getting a suspect flag for helping during a limited engagements should only apply to high sec, not to low sec or WH space. I am not sure why this is occurring, and unless CCP has made any changes since the release of that dev blog then this is indeed a bug.
From what I understand the logistics will rightfully get all the flags of the person they are assisting. The exception is in high sec where they will also get a suspect flag. This should not though be occuring in WH space and in low sec according to the Dev blog. Special for you : HIGH SEC = LOW SEC http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6435/123iyc.jpgLOW SEC \= WH <---- 2 different things WH = NULLS <----- this should be same thing afaik Incorrect. This is quoted according to the dev blog. "An LE is only effective in empire space" Low sec is still empire space = concord and stuff ... just less of them ... and you even have a graph ... Since when empire is high sec ? Check even eve trailers ? i think even first one introduction , empire = EMPIRE both high and low ... they get "colored" in trailer with colors when describing each race ...... Empire space, often shortened to "Empire", is the area of space where the four major factions, The Amarr Empire, Minmatar Republic, Caldari State, and Gallente Federation as well as The Khanid Kingdom and Ammatar Mandate, hold sovereignty. Empire space encompasses the space with a positive security rating (from 0.1 to 1.0). As sovereignty is already held by by one of the factions, alliances may not lay claim to sovereignty anywhere in Empire space.
Ok, low sec may have been referred to as empire space in the dev blog. But that doesn't explain the suspect flag still occuring in WHs also. So still strange behaviour which seems to be not working as intended, at least in the case of WHs. |
Ruvin
45
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
its not refered as that in "dev blog" ... its like that everywhere :/
Well we started slowly ... very slowly and removed the problems 1 by 1 .... I hope so.
one one thing we do agree after all ... In WH logi shouldnt get ANY flag . Even dev's agree looking at the graphic . And that ! is not working correctly .
(i wouldnt call a S in wh gamebreaking tho :P ) Opportunities multiply as they are seized. |
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