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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
154
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
- Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
Not true, i just tested it. Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field. My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's.
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Mund Richard
63
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:14:00 -
[62] - Quote
Spc One wrote:- Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
Not true, i just tested it. Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field. My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's. Read patchnotes veeery carefully again. Visual aid:
Quote: Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above. Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding. Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4581
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:15:00 -
[63] - Quote
Spc One wrote:
- Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
Not true, i just tested it. Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field. My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's.
Battleships will go for large drones, but everything else will too "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1967
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:Spc One wrote:- Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
Not true, i just tested it. Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field. My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's. Read patchnotes veeery carefully again. Visual aid: Quote: Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above. Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding. You can use small drones on battleships safely Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
154
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Spc One wrote:
- Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
Not true, i just tested it. Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field. My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's. Battleships will go for large drones, but everything else will too Again not true, my hobgoblins were also targeted by battleships.
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
154
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
So basicly everything is the same as before, nothing changed.
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
281
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Posted - 2012.12.20 05:04:00 -
[67] - Quote
Instead of nerfing our drones, they should have just given NPCs drone of their own. Not like EoM doesn't use enough Arbitrators, after all. That would have made things more challenging for everyone equally, not just the drone captains. EvE Forum Bingo |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2259
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Posted - 2012.12.20 10:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
I thought I'd try out some light drones after the "fix". So in Worlds Collide I flew the Drake in, wandered a long long way from the warp-in (having killed the Angel Spies with missiles and webifier). Released my drones: lost one within three seconds. Pulled the drones back in, and nothing bothered to aggro me.
Before the Level One AI was added in, releasing drones would get you full room aggro. So this is definitely broken.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1436
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Posted - 2012.12.20 10:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
Norrin Ellis wrote:For those of you who simply say sentries are the one-size-fits-all solution, please explain to me why CCP shouldn't just remove heavies from the game rather than make complicated AI changes? I mean, if heavies are useless or terribly inefficient pre-nerf and post-nerf, yet sentries are just perfect pre-nerf and post-nerf, wouldn't removing the heavies be the most rational solution?
As for putting a web on a drone boat to make the sentries work in certain situations, I've already addressed that. I use a variety of drones so that I don't have to waste slots on things like webs.
This is just incredible ignorance. EVE is not about PVE. Heavies are wonderful in close range combat. And I fully agree with Tippia and others who say that sentries have always been better for PVE.
Embrace the sentries, they are simply put magnificient weapons of destruction, that allow many interesting tactics in PVP as well.
Also, about your EWAR comment, yes you can use a web on your drone boat, and especially target painter. These increase your applied damage, which is pretty much the most important thing. Web and paint a target, and watch it get ripped to pieces by your drones. Paint a far away target and watch your sentries hit better.
And they draw aggro. You can even control your drones with a painter.
I tried to remove this sig. |
Mund Richard
64
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Posted - 2012.12.20 11:12:00 -
[70] - Quote
Roime wrote: And they draw aggro. You can even control your drones with a painter. Though personally, I feel nothing paints a target as primary like a broadside of 425 IIs Heck, it's cycle time is shorter, painters take ages to turn off. Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
1436
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Posted - 2012.12.20 11:48:00 -
[71] - Quote
So both is best, right? :)
Painter does indeed have a very long cycle, in our PVE application, sleeper harvesting with sentry Domis, one cycle is normally enough. Also, very handy when your highs are full of RR and cap transfers, and you got a ton of drones assigned to you. I tried to remove this sig. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
23
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Posted - 2012.12.20 13:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
pilots used carriers with sentries to AFK farm. that was one item that was fixed by the added drone attention....... if you knew how much ISK per hour, you would not feel sorry for them |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
694
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Posted - 2012.12.20 13:39:00 -
[73] - Quote
Magormor wrote: The drone AI made live easier for us. This issus is really only relivant to ships that never fit guns and like to AFK and let drones do the work.
I shall remember to fit guns to my carrier next time i do lvl 5. WTF was i thinking, I mean just because 2 Target painters a heavy neut and an ecm burst STILL wasn't enough threat generation to keep my FIGHTERS from popping, I just should fit guns to that damn Thanny.
Stupid me..
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
694
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Posted - 2012.12.20 13:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Spc One wrote:So basicly everything is the same as before, nothing changed.
Yep, confirming nothing has changed.
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
1436
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Posted - 2012.12.20 14:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Magormor wrote: The drone AI made live easier for us. This issus is really only relivant to ships that never fit guns and like to AFK and let drones do the work.
I shall remember to fit guns to my carrier next time i do lvl 5. WTF was i thinking, I mean just because 2 Target painters a heavy neut and an ecm burst STILL wasn't enough threat generation to keep my FIGHTERS from popping, I just should fit guns to that damn Thanny. Stupid me..
Was the intention to change the way NPCs work, but somehow in a way that players don't have to change anything?
Don't get me wrong, resistance is the default human reaction to changes and it's ok. But consider the possibility that the eventual goal of CCP for pve is to change it completely, and this is just the beginning? Maybe soloable L5s in carriers with invulnerable drones is "broken" in their vision?
Maybe the customer feedback from group pve in wormholes and incursions has been very positive, and they have come to the conclusion that bringing players together for pve leads to social bonding, stronger customer satisfaction and increased subscriptions, and they want to expand the concept of co-operative gameplay and make it available for wider audience, because it fits so perfectly in an MMO largely dependent on lively group dynamics. I tried to remove this sig. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
794
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Posted - 2012.12.20 16:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
I am using an alt to test the AI. My raven is having no issues completing any L4s and I've done several. My drones got shot once but I recalled it in time.
I think it's fine. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
104
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Posted - 2012.12.20 17:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Consider for a moment that the purpose of the change is to nerf the use of drone boats (specifically carriers) for running anoms. |
Nalha Saldana
Syneptics Inc. AL3XAND3R.
362
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Posted - 2012.12.20 17:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
What I don't get is why my salvage drones keep getting aggro when I'm on the field shooting stuff, aggro seems totally broken. |
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
140
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Posted - 2012.12.20 17:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
I've not lost a single drone from my mission Domi to the new AI. Paying attention is a remarkable thing "Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom." |
Norrin Ellis
Venture Racing
137
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Posted - 2012.12.20 19:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Anabelle Martinez wrote:Norrin Ellis wrote: Only an idiot is going to use anything other than large drones or sentries against a battleship, for example. I don't see myself as an idiot for using light scouts in my marauder. 425s don't make contact with fast frigs or spider drones inside 30km so a web and some light scouts do the job just fine. Can't say I've lost a drone so far since the changes but I I only pull them out for anything orbiting me than right back in the bay they go. What I mean is that when attacking battleships, a competent drone pilot is going to use heavies or sentries. Obviously, you can carry whatever loadout of drones suits you on your battleship. I carry several flights of drones of varying sizes myself, but if I'm going to attack a battleship with drones, I'm going to use the right ones for the job: heavies or sentries. CEO, Venture Racing Retired Senior Banker, EVE Online Hold'Em |
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Mund Richard
67
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Posted - 2012.12.20 23:19:00 -
[81] - Quote
MisterNick wrote:I've not lost a single drone from my mission Domi to the new AI. Paying attention is a remarkable thing Out of curiosity (and still not having finished grinding one of the sandings I wanted), I took out an alt with less-good drone skills in some BCs for level 3s, loaded with tech 1 drones, and tried to think of them as disposable.
Didn't loose any goblins with a Drake, but realised I was TP-ing all the time and doing "good" dps, plus I've barely met any elite ships, so swapped to a Myrm, that should see proper agro using medium drones.
It got interesting. First Hammerhead I lost while it was shooting a sentry tower quite far away. I pressed the recall button when it had 90% shields still left, but only the other 4 got back. So far for paying attention being remarkable.
Ok, so drones can get properly agro. Second was a Hammerhead lost, Damsel, killed Krull just for the heck of it, drone 15-25 km away, room snapped over, my notice was shields dropping instantly, pressed the button, 4 drones made it back full health.
Ok, time for some serious TP magic. TP and going close to the hostiles made my drones "invulnerable" afterwards.
...But you know, I trained my drone skills so they can go over 50km without a drone link (and had one on anyways, Angel Extra had rats spawning 100km away at L3 even, and then by sheer brilliance get stuck on an object....)
Another interesting issue I noticed that folk say "yellow box" = drone agro, recall them before they get into shield. Well, true, but only if they are already within their prefered engagement range. What if I want my drones to intercept them? I mean, Myrm with AC450s but no TE while my drones go 70km, why would I wait for the rats to get to me?
All in all, to get back on the topic, the AI Adjustment made light scout drones viable for anything below L4, and thus anything with below 50 mbps is good to go. Yay for new players! Thorax with blasters or any short range weapon system ship is also cool. Sentries are also cool as they were before, you can recall them just fine.
Any gunship not normally fitting any EWAR having a better drone bandwidth... well...
Next step: L4s with medium drones! Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
76
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Posted - 2012.12.20 23:25:00 -
[82] - Quote
This change is awesome. After frigates destroyed, launch salvage drones while killing cruisers/bc/bs. Running a golem, makes things a bit quicker than pre-patch. Thumbs up! |
Mund Richard
67
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Posted - 2012.12.20 23:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
bongsmoke wrote:This change is awesome. After frigates destroyed, launch salvage drones while killing cruisers/bc/bs. Running a golem, makes things a bit quicker than pre-patch. Thumbs up! As far as I understand from the patch notes, running a Golem, your chances of having agro on the salvage drones stays after you kill elite frigs until you also kill the cruisers, while the easy frigates are of no consciquence dead or alive. Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
76
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Posted - 2012.12.21 00:07:00 -
[84] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:bongsmoke wrote:This change is awesome. After frigates destroyed, launch salvage drones while killing cruisers/bc/bs. Running a golem, makes things a bit quicker than pre-patch. Thumbs up! As far as I understand from the patch notes, running a Golem, your chances of having agro on the salvage drones stays after you kill elite frigs until you also kill the cruisers, while the easy frigates are of no consciquence dead or alive. Thankfully, not the issue. Just frigates target salvage drone, never once had a cruiser attack them. |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
1
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Posted - 2012.12.21 00:42:00 -
[85] - Quote
i do love the new AI, as i'm currently training a couple of noobs with a group of small ships in lvl 3 missions, the new aggro mechanic makes things much more exciting, the perma-aggro on the first target was both unrealistic, and somewhat dull.
solo mission running however, got somewhat more annoying. drones now take MUCH more micromanagement then before, and pretty much requires me to pay as much, sometimes more, attention to my drones health then my own if i dont want to loose tons of drones.
of course missions shouldn't be run afk, but drones should not need quite this much player attention, and it should really be possible to save drones reliably if i notice the instant they get aggro, this is not the case, ogre's at over 30km away, have high possibility of not all of them making it back
and really, if i have a ship with 125mb drone bandwith, using medium drones instead of heavy, that's a considerably lower dps
this is not counting that highly regular drone loss, makes the use of T2 drones, LOWER my profit margin, as the increased loss rates, is costing me more money then the T2 dps is gaining for me with faster kills edit:mabey T2 drones should have T2 resists?
this is on a typhoon, which has room for spare drones, so that loosing one dosnt kill my dps untill i dock, like a lot of ships do.
however, the ship always auto-launches damaged drones first, full health ones never touched while there is a damaged drone in the bay i think this should be the other way around, it would help somewhat for the domi and other ships with spare drones obviously a drone with no armor left has lower life expectency, and has no business being launched FIRST |
Mund Richard
67
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Posted - 2012.12.21 00:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
Eraza wrote:however, the ship always auto-launches damaged drones first, full health ones never touched while there is a damaged drone in the bay i think this should be the other way around, it would help somewhat for the domi and other ships with spare drones obviously a drone with no armor left has lower life expectency, and has no business being launched FIRST There's an option "move out of group" helps a lot.
Now, for ships that have 125/125 bays... It's rough. Well, I usually sit still with senties, so if I'd dual-box with one of those, I wouldn't mind. Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
601
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Posted - 2012.12.22 08:57:00 -
[87] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:No. Using drones pre/post patch with no difficulties. CCP wanted to nerf AFK income. Loosing more drones than I was pre patch (0). Wasn't AFK'ing then or now. Rain6637 wrote://ah, sorry i see you mean AFK drone income. gotcha. A recalled drone and a dead drone have the same DPS. Droneboats were nerfed regardless of being active or AFK.
Using heavies pre exansion netted less money than running sentries.
Using heavies post expansion nets less money than sentries.
Billions of AFK ISK nerfed, working as intended.
From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Mund Richard
67
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Posted - 2012.12.22 09:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: Billions of AFK ISK nerfed, working as intended. I should change my sig to: Quote:According to CCP FoxFour - leader of the AI change - the only drone ships not affected by the recent AI change are the RR Domis Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship. Infested Domi! including all the wiggly bits for extra drone repairs, more drone dps than a Rattler due to a role bonus, less tank, and with turrets. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
81
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Posted - 2012.12.22 09:13:00 -
[89] - Quote
At the end these new mechanics are improving group play and nerfing afk safe isks.. That's pretty cool ! Of course drone as a weapon system are less efficient than before. But that's exactly like blasters for example :
Have you even tried to run a l4 mission with a battleship and blasters ? No, and no one is complaining about, because each weapon system has it's advantages and disadvantages. Close-range weapon systems tends to be better in PvP, as opposed to long-range weapon systems.
So, drones can make damages at long-ranges, but they are also efficient at close-range. Sounds like a pretty unbalanced situation... Oh wait, but it was the case of heavy missiles too, and they were a bit nerfed with retribution... too.
But rather than making again a weapon system that is close range = pvp or long range = pve, they decided to reverse it by making rats able to target drones.
Now, drones tends to be better un PvP than PvE. You can still use them in PvE but that's a bit more painful and it requires more micro-managment... Exactly like with blasters, again.
See ? Everything's working as intended. After years and years of research around ice mining, they finally found how to make snowballs again :D |
Sahjahn
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
11
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Posted - 2012.12.22 09:14:00 -
[90] - Quote
Quote:I see that NPCs now essentially target drones of their own size and up. Does this solve the drone massacre problem, though?
Well it doesn't appear to me that the patch is working, my drones are still getting agro from NPCs of a different size. Sentries are still being shot by frigates and cruisers, and fighters are still being shot by anything and not just battleship NPCs. So as far as I can tell notthing has changed. |
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