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Antodias
Ship spinners inc
11
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Posted - 2012.12.24 04:40:00 -
[91] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:Welcome to EVE online in 2012 where we give out ship recommendations based on "engageability" and claim proper use of strong ships that enable you to take on more challenging targets get you spoonfed. Since a real challenge is myth! The fact that some people are reluctant to fight you usually have very little to do with the ship you fly and the fitting you use, or the concept you fly in a gang and how that gang is composed. The reason people are reluctant to fight you is a percieved level of competence. Most reservations and smack you see drifting around (wether it's ships, ship-roles or ship-use) are usually just poorly masked scape-bleats. I know i've said it before: try making a new character and see how eager people are to shoot you when your dob says 2012, your corp history is blank and no one knows your name. Even in a "strong" ship. It's why our behaviour involve creating disposable alts as well, or why many nomadic groups are nomadic (they aim to tap into the first few days of unfamiliarity when a region still underestimate you, and take fights). It works, but is such a modus operandi healthy? It's really an absurd reverse culture (born and bred in the age of dwindling up-engagement, where players and corps seek to make themselves look worse than they are to appeal to an inferior target pool - because they can't or won't up-engage and take on proper challenges, challenges suitable for their actual level of gameplay) and while "engageability" is amusing in itself (amusing yet not invalid), it becomes absurd when that is the approach taught to newer players. If we don't teach our new players to take risks and challenges, what behaviour do we breed long term? Gone are the days when we suggest pilots make themselves as good as possible; since if they are new, they will get fights anyway and will extend their target pool to take on tougher challenges. No, we preach "aim small, miss small" and try to goad weaker opponents into fights and keeping a moral high. Then us older players pat ourselves on the back, they didn't fight our Ferox or Brutix despite their awesome Myrms and Drakes, nevermind the 80m SP difference and 8 years of experience. We won despite the fact that they had EW while we honourably refused it. Call them homosexuals and blobs when you lose. You don't dabble in risk-adversity like those ... others. If people don't want to get spoon-fed they should go for a real challenge and try to up-engage more - not settle for the small fry that are too pansy to fight a Myrm. Spoonfed, backwards...
Your post is incoherent to the point of street raving lunacy, and your utter ignorance of tactics in eve is so blantantly obvious as to be blinding.
Welcome to EVE 2012, where people are so risk averse as to require heavily stacked odds in order to commit to a fight, and anyone who wishes to engage such people must consider engageability in order to prevent the addition of force multipliers.
Of course if you do not think of this as HONORUBRU INTERNET SPACESAMURAI behaviour then you are most welcome to bring your best and wait half an hour for your opponent to bring the force multipliers he considers necessary to gank you easily. |
Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
144
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Posted - 2012.12.24 08:58:00 -
[92] - Quote
Cal Stantson wrote:The Punisher, Vengeance, Coercer, Arbitrator, Omen, Maller, Augoror, Curse, Zealot, Guardian, Harbinger, Oracle, Absolution, Damnation, Armageddon and Abaddon are some of the best ships in their class. But apart from that, yeah, Amarr suck.
Just look at the current coalition doctrines:
The DFC uses Armageddon fleets.
The HBC uses Napocs with various Amarrian support ships.
RnK use Guardians and neuting Legions in their tech3 fleets all the time.
The tribute war saw Zealot Ahac fleets decimating opposition that had near-similar numbers.
Oracle fleets are becoming more and more popular and are typically welcomed in most t3 BC fleets.
And let's not forget that the alst two devcursions have been Abaddons and Napocs.
Now I'm going to pose a question to you, how many doctrines do you know of where Gallente ships are the backbone? |
Cambarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
227
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:20:00 -
[93] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote: Welcome to EVE online in 2012 where we give out ship recommendations based on "engageability" and claim proper use of strong ships that enable you to take on more challenging targets get you spoonfed. Since a real challenge is myth!
The fact that some people are reluctant to fight you usually have very little to do with the ship you fly and the fitting you use, or the concept you fly in a gang and how that gang is composed. The reason people are reluctant to fight you is a percieved level of competence. Most reservations and smack you see drifting around (wether it's ships, ship-roles or ship-use) are usually just poorly masked scape-bleats.
I know i've said it before: try making a new character and see how eager people are to shoot you when your dob says 2012, your corp history is blank and no one knows your name. Even in a "strong" ship. It's why our behaviour involve creating disposable alts as well, or why many nomadic groups are nomadic (they aim to tap into the first few days of unfamiliarity when a region still underestimate you, and take fights). It works, but is such a modus operandi healthy?
If people don't want to get spoon-fed they should go for a real challenge and try to up-engage more - not settle for the small fry that are too pansy to fight a Myrm.
If I was in, say, a HAC, and I had to pick between fighting a vet in another HAC or a neut domi flown by a 4 month old character, I would take the HAC every time. I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but there is absolutely a factor about engageability when it comes to pvp and flying a ship that shouldn't be ignored. Regardless of age, you WILL get more fights in a rupture than you will in a cyn, and that should count for something. |
PavlikX
Shadows of the Day HeII Gate Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.12.24 18:30:00 -
[94] - Quote
So, all this discussion tells that amarr ships are not so bad inPvP part of the game. Meantime there is another one part - PvE. Without this part there will be no Napocs, Baalghorn, Slicers and so on. I am not skilled PvP pilot, i'll say about PvE. Explain me, how is it possible -Drake (simple T1 BC, compariously low skilled, easy accessable) holds full agro in T2 fit of Sansha's 5/10 ded complex, meantime my Absolution rewarped constantly? Resists to EM and termal was 91 and 88. No MWD used, only AB. My centum B type repairer was unable to repaire damages, meantime Drake... well, yu know. I've lost my Paladin in official war, so i decided to try other ships in 4 lv missions and complexes. All ships with armor tank. All was a crap in general. I know that CCP will rebalance comand ships, but for now Absolution is awfull in PvE. I've tried Munin with it's cheating 90% armor resists against EM. It handles better than absolution, but still simple T1 shield ship makes this better.
In my opinion main problemm of amarr ships - armor tank. It is not good enough in PvE. CCP havedone few steps to improove that - reactive armor hardener and it's buff in recent patch. But it is not enough. Well, i'll create another tread here about possible solutions to avoid spaming in this thread. |
aoe dps
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.12.24 20:17:00 -
[95] - Quote
This is the best troll I've seen in weeks.
OP says amarr sucks *except* for the growing list of ships acknowledged not to, and then proceeds to list, as best ships, only gallente ships?
amarr subcaps 2/10 gal 10/10
please mail me some of what you smoke! i am a posting alt. "He doesn't believe in taking into consideration any facts that might detract from his argument" |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2902
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Posted - 2012.12.24 20:40:00 -
[96] - Quote
So Amarr is better at fleet battles while Gallante are better in small gang encounters.
That about sums the entire thread up in one neat sentence. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
8
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Posted - 2012.12.25 14:53:00 -
[97] - Quote
PavlikX wrote:So, all this discussion tells that amarr ships are not so bad inPvP part of the game. Meantime there is another one part - PvE. Without this part there will be no Napocs, Baalghorn, Slicers and so on. I am not skilled PvP pilot, i'll say about PvE. Explain me, how is it possible -Drake (simple T1 BC, compariously low skilled, easy accessable) holds full agro in T2 fit of Sansha's 5/10 ded complex, meantime my Absolution rewarped constantly? Resists to EM and termal was 91 and 88. No MWD used, only AB. My centum B type repairer was unable to repaire damages, meantime Drake... well, yu know. I've lost my Paladin in official war, so i decided to try other ships in 4 lv missions and complexes. All ships with armor tank. All was a crap in general. I know that CCP will rebalance comand ships, but for now Absolution is awfull in PvE. I've tried Munin with it's cheating 90% armor resists against EM. It handles better than absolution, but still simple T1 shield ship makes this better.
In my opinion main problemm of amarr ships - armor tank. It is not good enough in PvE. CCP havedone few steps to improove that - reactive armor hardener and it's buff in recent patch. But it is not enough. Well, i'll create another tread here about possible solutions to avoid spaming in this thread.
Actually, no one cares for the pve part. If a ship is balanced for pvp, there is nothing more to be done. Aside from that, you fail to tank a 5/10 in an absolution? What the hell.
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Ares Desideratus
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
36
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Posted - 2012.12.25 17:10:00 -
[98] - Quote
So what to do about the Punisher?
It clearly sucks, as far as I know the Maller could very well be just as useless aside from bait, etc.
The Punisher just can't hold anything down or apply it's damage IMO, and it's tank is actually kinda mediocre.
So what to do?
(Give it rockets) |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1048
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Posted - 2012.12.25 21:58:00 -
[99] - Quote
Amarr have the best T2 lineup of any race by a long shot. Their T1 ships are very good, their caps are very good. yes, legion sucks but at least it's fittable now with the laser changes.
so basically, no, amarr ships definitely do not suck. |
Nikea Tiber
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.12.27 20:46:00 -
[100] - Quote
It is not safe to say amarrian ships suck.
The crusader would like to have a word with the taranis for best combat interceptor. |
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2452
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Posted - 2012.12.27 21:33:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nikea Tiber wrote:It is not safe to say amarrian ships suck.
The crusader would like to have a word with the taranis for best combat interceptor.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Crusader. It can be really fantastic but the first guy with a neut will put you permanently out of action. The Ranis can dual prop and fit a nos, which IMO puts it above the Crusader. Now, the Executioner vs Atron and Slicer vs Comet... Amarr wins hands down. :)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
255
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Posted - 2012.12.28 00:27:00 -
[102] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Nikea Tiber wrote:It is not safe to say amarrian ships suck.
The crusader would like to have a word with the taranis for best combat interceptor. I have a love/hate relationship with the Crusader. It can be really fantastic but the first guy with a neut will put you permanently out of action. The Ranis can dual prop and fit a nos, which IMO puts it above the Crusader. Now, the Executioner vs Atron and Slicer vs Comet... Amarr wins hands down. :) -Liang
Neuts tend to make Amarr ships cringe as a rule. Too many ships fly with them equipped nowadays for my liking. ;( There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly |
Fireflyb1
Walden 2.0
16
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Posted - 2012.12.28 00:32:00 -
[103] - Quote
amarr are the best
see wat i did thar |
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
67
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Posted - 2012.12.28 16:25:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:Actually one of Diesel's comments just gave me an idea.
If we find a ship that looks like a vagina it can go nice with the Thorax.
You can fly in and out and have a good time Oh that would be the Zephyr. |
Gal'o Sengen
State War Academy Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:45:00 -
[105] - Quote
ColdCutz wrote:Ares Desideratus wrote:Actually one of Diesel's comments just gave me an idea.
If we find a ship that looks like a vagina it can go nice with the Thorax.
You can fly in and out and have a good time Oh that would be the Zephyr.
A Machariel works fine. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
70
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Posted - 2012.12.29 10:07:00 -
[106] - Quote
It's not that Amarr suck. It's that Armour tanking isn't in a good place right now. |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
11
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Posted - 2012.12.29 11:19:00 -
[107] - Quote
Nearly didn't agree.
Until Retribution the PILGRIM was a great specialized ship - I was very happy that I'd trained Amarr only and focused on a specific skill set.
But not now - 'Death of a Pilgrim" in this section is about a fab Amarr ship being bonused and then nerfed in the same patch.
You had to be very very patient and probably a bit odd to go 'U-boat' , but it was a pretty unique Eve experience that made being AMARR feel good. :-(
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Foxglove Digitalis
LightningStrikesTwice Elemental Tide
10
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Posted - 2012.12.29 15:50:00 -
[108] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Care to name some or did you decide to take this secret to the grave? Sure, here's a few laser ships I really like: [snip] - Coercer (old one, can't speak to the new one) [snip] -Liang 385dps on a dessie seems pretty good to me. |
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