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Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
329
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Posted - 2012.12.26 14:36:00 -
[61] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:I think part of the LP faucet created by CCP was to make faction navy ships more affordable. Performance-wise they ought to be less expensive than their T2 counterparts and finally that is what is happening.
Edit: Also, the map better reflects reality now than before. Right now Gallente dominate most of the time and they now dominate the map. Caldari are still strong in Eha, Rakapas, and OMS/Ladi and it shows. Farmers really only affect the under populated regions of the FW where nobody lives and there is likely nothing that can be done about that other than reduce the size of the map. But then people would complain that the map is too small. What'cha gonna do?
farmers do affect whole map, last reminants who still play FW on caldari side are tied up to defend those systems you mentioned because farmers keep them busy. They do it practically without rewards.
Now if you wonder why we do not take more systems is that no one is willing to run alt horde on caldari side and do the basic plexing all around area keeping gallente defenders busy.
Only thing that keeps gallente 'winning' is that all farmers are on their side, this is why FW does not work at all now, it is even worse than before inferno, CCP did not fix FW they broke it totally.
Biggest **** up from CCP side was to bring some changes faster than others so CCP decided which side will get advantage. No point to fight war where game company favors one side, you can not really win it.
Personally i am playing other games because EVE does not offer any activity that interest me at this moment, changing and bringing more ships does not really bring anything new to game. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
320
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Posted - 2012.12.26 15:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:X Gallentius wrote:I think part of the LP faucet created by CCP was to make faction navy ships more affordable. Performance-wise they ought to be less expensive than their T2 counterparts and finally that is what is happening.
Edit: Also, the map better reflects reality now than before. Right now Gallente dominate most of the time and they now dominate the map. Caldari are still strong in Eha, Rakapas, and OMS/Ladi and it shows. Farmers really only affect the under populated regions of the FW where nobody lives and there is likely nothing that can be done about that other than reduce the size of the map. But then people would complain that the map is too small. What'cha gonna do? farmers do affect whole map, last reminants who still play FW on caldari side are tied up to defend those systems you mentioned because farmers keep them busy. They do it practically without rewards. Now if you wonder why we do not take more systems is that no one is willing to run alt horde on caldari side and do the basic plexing all around area keeping gallente defenders busy. Only thing that keeps gallente 'winning' is that all farmers are on their side, this is why FW does not work at all now, it is even worse than before inferno, CCP did not fix FW they broke it totally. Biggest **** up from CCP side was to bring some changes faster than others so CCP decided which side will get advantage. No point to fight war where game company favors one side, you can not really win it. Personally i am playing other games because EVE does not offer any activity that interest me at this moment, changing and bringing more ships does not really bring anything new to game.
Well to add to this with something that compounds it to a bigger problem and shows how flawed the system is. It's actually in Caldari's best interest not to take back any systems that are un-needed. Meaning Caldari is better off just to hold on to those few Core systems that they want to dock in.
By taking any non essential systems it just provides more places for the farmers to get isk. Just flying around Black Rise and you see loads of Gal controlled systems that are over 50% contested. They don't bother to defend those systems because they know it's not worthwhile to do so. It's better off to allow them to be flipped so they can farm away again.
This is the same tactics that Gals used when Caldari held most of the war zone control. At least now the systems can't be farmed past vulnerable, so by not flipping the systems back it ends the farmville. If Caldari are smart they wont flip systems back.
The whole pay by tier system is a dumb set up and has no legitimate means of being successful. It's always going to encourage farming for ISK rather than encourage PVP. |
Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
597
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Posted - 2012.12.26 18:56:00 -
[63] - Quote
X G wrote: I think part of the LP faucet created by CCP...
What I want to know is what CCP is going to do about this FW tear faucet.
Sure it was nice when it started out, but the tears are starting to get so plentiful that they're already losing their luster. |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
153
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Posted - 2012.12.26 22:15:00 -
[64] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil. amarr could do exactly the same in gunless frigs too trust me
No they couldn't, trust me. |
Mystical Might
Alekhine's Gun
123
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Posted - 2012.12.27 00:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil. amarr could do exactly the same in gunless frigs too trust me No they couldn't, trust me.
Confirming. |
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
40
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Posted - 2012.12.27 00:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
honestly they should have fw lp be taxed and help push farmers out. in npc you now lose 11% of your lps
this also allows fe corps to have an income on corp level and have SRP Pos fuel etc
i think it could slighty reduce farming and help the corps recruit from fw npc corp and build together
wont happen though |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
23
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Posted - 2012.12.27 05:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil. amarr could do exactly the same in gunless frigs too trust me No they couldn't, trust me.
well my 4 gunless farming alts that made fat lp wen nulli came in beg to differ
and then there was 6 |
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
65
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Posted - 2012.12.27 09:13:00 -
[68] - Quote
I was baffled that FW gives LP for PvE stuff, but then I realized FW isn't about PvP at all.
Shoot a member of the opposing militia and receive some hundred LP.
OR
Orbit a novice plex for 10 minutes and receive 32k LP.
I think CCP overestimates the boredom-suffering skills of its playerbase.
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Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
154
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Posted - 2012.12.27 10:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil. amarr could do exactly the same in gunless frigs too trust me No they couldn't, trust me. well my 4 gunless farming alts that made fat lp wen nulli came in beg to differ and then there was 6
Ah yes but there was a time before Nulli, a time where NPC's did ewar, one day we should really sit these youngsters down and tell them about the old days... |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
321
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 14:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
Thomas Gore wrote:I was baffled that FW gives LP for PvE stuff, but then I realized FW isn't about PvP at all.
Shoot a member of the opposing militia and receive some hundred LP.
OR
Orbit a novice plex for 10 minutes and receive 32k LP.
I think CCP under-estimates the boredom-suffering skills of its playerbase.
Yes, it's rather ironic isn't it. I mean they said the reason they wouldn't give more LP for kills is because it could be abused and farmed. Umm Derp a Durrr..
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Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
23
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Posted - 2012.12.27 15:47:00 -
[71] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Zen Guerrilla wrote: 1. Before you guys joined it was so much worse you really shouldn't complain about it now.
debatable Zen Guerrilla wrote:2. Stop being so bad and you won't have to replace that many ships. Maybe stop throwing faction fits around, i heard that lowers the cost significantly.
you have numbers (iron blobside can fleet more than the entire amarr militia combined in their TZ. LNA can fleet at least equal size during their TZ) Zen Guerrilla wrote:3. Before you joined you could've read up on FW and chose the right side if you're only in it for the money.
lol Zen Guerrilla wrote:Generally, stop whining. Things will even out again. There was a time when the Amarr kicked the crap out of us with nothing we could do. It changed since then, it will change again. The Amarr actually have the numbers, they just need to use em now. was because amarr had numbers FW is fine. amarr just lacks numbers. minmatar lacks the desire for gfs. CCP can't really do anything to make minmatar grow a pair or amarr recruit better people. So bitter.
I love it. pew pew |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
23
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
errrr MRA will u make ur mind up first u talk about the old style of plexing i say that suits u lot fine just after downtime... then its you who gos onbout gunless frigs upto a few months ago so i counter that by saying u could do the same, you say u couldnt but then say oh sorry yes we could but i remember the good old days. your comments are going round in circles and as for saying we`ll tell these youngsters iv been around faction warfare longer than you hahaha ive seen every change and incarnation so please enlighten me more with ur drivvel and stop trying to make me look a fool because it wont wash sir its u whos looking the fool righ now |
ground ctrl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.12.27 21:39:00 -
[73] - Quote
Gunship wrote:Happy to fight for the Amarr side. However the number games and the LP bonus does make it silly.
I totally get the M side, great LP and SFI's for the taking.
The SFI for FW is far better than the Omen. The Amarr frig is useless.
I continually find we have to stack up against the other side outnumbered and out shipped.
Today ill put an alt in M and then plex until all systems are taken, then perhaps I can fly out in a SFI too.
The tier system should be dropped and the system level removed. Make x systems blue and x systems red, then let the pvp begin. The sides with the fewest active pilots in space get the most LP that should even the sides nicely.
There was some economic balance with the original inferno rollout but the changes that happened on october 22nd totally removed all prospects of economic balance.
This was addressed in depth with hans in the devs features and ideas thread. Hans decided that it would be ok to kill off all economic balances because he thought all the pvpers would prefer to fight for the side that offers less money. I guess some people are still wondering if most people will choose more money or less money. So we can continue to wait.
-Cearain's alt. |
ground ctrl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
BrutalButFair wrote:Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right?
They can plex for their ally or run missions or run defensive plexes. If their enemy is foolish enough to play a game where the enemy gets 1 isk for every 2 isk then the enemy might even be foolish enough to flip a system and feed them.
-Cearain's alt |
ground ctrl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 23:21:00 -
[75] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Here is what happens:
The losers trim the fat. Complainers. Defeatists. People who refuse to fly 'x' ship or get in a plex at all. They head for the door. Those that are left are committed to winning and are open to new ideas and teamwork. The remnants get more organized and that organization in turn attracts new blood.
The winners struggle to keep it together. Individual pilots who want 'gudfights' may defect for the opposition. People get bored and log in less frequently. An influx of farmers garners resentment. Internal wardecs poisons the militia. Whole corps or even alliances might quit to greener pastures.
It's easy to make such comments and ignore the facts. You can always say yeah its gonna happen "soon." But do you mind if I ask how long this process is supposed to take? Or will you never admit that the system is simply bad?
Under the current mechanics people who want to do the play the sov warfare thing in faction war have 2 choices:
1) plex for more money or 2) plex for less money
It seems to me that people convincingly chosen option 1 since may 22nd.
So when are we going to see amarr with 50 systems and Minmatar with only 20?
-Cearain's alt |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
128
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 15:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
Winning @ factional warfare means nothing. Hmm! I suppose isk; but guess what? You can make alot of isk in low sec without being in factional warfare. Why cant a loser still make isk? Because they're lazy? I suppose its easier to complain and whine. [SMUG]-áSORRY for party rocking! v0v
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ground ctrl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.12.28 20:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Winning @ factional warfare means nothing. Hmm! I suppose isk; but guess what? You can make alot of isk in low sec without being in factional warfare. Why cant a loser still make isk? Because they're lazy? I suppose its easier to complain and whine.
Its actually easier to make isk at 2xs the rate by joining the winning side. Thats pretty much what we have been seeing for the last 7 months. Especially the last 2 months when they removed the slight economic balances that existed in inferno.
Faction war means nothing because we know what you have to do to win it, and it is not an activity that has much merit. The side that can spend the most hours of their lives hiding and plexxing is not admired.
-Cearains Alt |
Dan Carter Murray
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 00:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote: So bitter. I love it.
about what?
THIS IS GOLD FLEET BROTHER. WE DON'T NEED NO ******* THRASHERS/SFIs/CANES. |
kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
148
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 00:49:00 -
[79] - Quote
I am willing to bet that deep down inside there is an adorable little boy.
I feel your pain. Hang in there! |
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
69
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 01:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Here is what happens:
The losers trim the fat. Complainers. Defeatists. People who refuse to fly 'x' ship or get in a plex at all. They head for the door. Those that are left are committed to winning and are open to new ideas and teamwork. The remnants get more organized and that organization in turn attracts new blood.
The winners struggle to keep it together. Individual pilots who want 'gudfights' may defect for the opposition. People get bored and log in less frequently. An influx of farmers garners resentment. Internal wardecs poisons the militia. Whole corps or even alliances might quit to greener pastures. It's easy to make such comments and ignore the facts. You can always say yeah its gonna happen "soon." But do you mind if I ask how long this process is supposed to take? Or will you never admit that the system is simply bad? Under the current mechanics people who want to do the play the sov warfare thing in faction war have 2 choices: 1) plex for more money or 2) plex for less money It seems to me that people convincingly chosen option 1 since may 22nd. So when are we going to see amarr with 50 systems and Minmatar with only 20? -Cearain's alt
You still have more forum posts than VPs.
- DCM's alt |
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Gunship
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
91
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 02:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
I really hope CCP / CSM actually read some of these posts Come join us for Amarr FW pvp-áaction. More info here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145548&#post2145548
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3687
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 11:47:00 -
[82] - Quote
Gunship wrote:I really hope CCP / CSM actually read some of these posts
Can't speak for the others, but I sure do. The day when the trolls stop caring enough to hang out in W&T and declare that "FW is dead" year after year, month after month, in the face of all progress, is the day I might begin to believe them
Until than, the popcorn show of "you people" and "so-and-so's cheating" and "CCP favors the _________ faction" never gets old. FW wouldn't be the same without the bitter blood feuds and endless propaganda wars. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Dan Carter Murray
332
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Posted - 2012.12.30 11:50:00 -
[83] - Quote
Zoe Panala wrote:ground ctrl wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Here is what happens:
The losers trim the fat. Complainers. Defeatists. People who refuse to fly 'x' ship or get in a plex at all. They head for the door. Those that are left are committed to winning and are open to new ideas and teamwork. The remnants get more organized and that organization in turn attracts new blood.
The winners struggle to keep it together. Individual pilots who want 'gudfights' may defect for the opposition. People get bored and log in less frequently. An influx of farmers garners resentment. Internal wardecs poisons the militia. Whole corps or even alliances might quit to greener pastures. It's easy to make such comments and ignore the facts. You can always say yeah its gonna happen "soon." But do you mind if I ask how long this process is supposed to take? Or will you never admit that the system is simply bad? Under the current mechanics people who want to do the play the sov warfare thing in faction war have 2 choices: 1) plex for more money or 2) plex for less money It seems to me that people convincingly chosen option 1 since may 22nd. So when are we going to see amarr with 50 systems and Minmatar with only 20? -Cearain's alt You still have more forum posts than VPs. - DCM's alt
Also has more posts than login hours. THIS IS GOLD FLEET BROTHER. WE DON'T NEED NO ******* THRASHERS/SFIs/CANES. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3687
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 12:04:00 -
[84] - Quote
Thomas Gore wrote:I think CCP under-estimates the boredom-suffering skills of its playerbase.
And I think you underestimate the exploit-solving skills of its playerbase.
As much as we can dream that PvP would be the ultimate income stream in FW, the bottom line is there are limits to how high a kill payout can reasonably go without causing problems, and even at those maximums it will never be enough revenue to satisfy those that participate primarily in gang or fleet warfare. Solo PvP-ers on the other hand have reported much more satisfying payouts from their kills, enough to sustain regular losses if one is skilled enough.
We could arbitrarily scale all the PvE-related payouts back so they are less than the PvP payouts, but at that point the rewards are so low we might as well have not implemented them in the first place. Many of us remember FW back when there was no reward or consequence for plexing, and how many fights one could find in a plex. I'm not hearing a lot of "lets go back to the old days" except from the trolling subset which has never really changed their message with regards to current warzone reality.
I'm just not one of those that believe in shaping the game design to fit arbitrary "PvP, not PvE" memes if the result would harm the increased activity levels we've all been enjoying in recent months. Having an abundance of PvP as well as a reliable income stream is much more important than having the income stream come from the PvP directly.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Juliade
Purging Maelstrom Villore Accords
13
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Posted - 2012.12.31 15:59:00 -
[85] - Quote
I think a lot of people are missing something here. SQUID-LP is a different currency than FEDEF-LP. While 600k FEDEF-LP sounds like a lot, we are currently suffering from inflation. So many people get so much LP and try to get ISK from it that the market is flooded with federation stuff. For those that don't know how supply and demand work, it means that while we get a lot of FEDEF-LP, it's actually worth so little in terms of ISK/LP that it kinda balances out. The little SQUID-LP you get is far more worth than the millions of FEDEF-LP we get.
Using Navy Domis as a benchmark (also it's the safest bet to get money), I'd invest about 115M ISK to get stuff in order to sell the navy domi for 250M. This turns out to have a return value of 135M ISK for 150k LP. So those 600k FEDEF-LP are actually worth only barely over half a billion. It wasn't 3 months ago that I could sell navy domis for 500M a piece. This means that the value of FEDEF-LP has effectively dropped from 3.333 ISK/LP to 900 ISK/LP. The days of easy ISK are over and it will only get worse once we hit T5.
As an alternative (to show I have done my homework), selling faction cap boosters pretty much has the best ISK/LP return. I can get 1B ISK out of 200k LP (or 5.000 ISK/LP). However, I'd have to sell 40k cap boosters which is simply not happening because the demand for that many faction cap boosters simply isn't there!
Just food for thought when considering the "almighty resources gallente must have by now". |
Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
609
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 16:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
Last I checked, Federation Navy Antimatter was cheaper than Caldari Navy Antimatter in Jita. Times are changing. |
Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
166
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 04:05:00 -
[87] - Quote
Man can I get back the time I spent reading all this crap.....again!
Seriously you lot need to get out and just shoot summit.
I left FW on an old toon becasue there wasn't any 'meaning' to it. Now i'm back in Amarr FW and have no plans to leave.
FW is definately better than it was prior. (The bitter vets that disagree can't adapt to the times and probably should just go play something else for a while till you miss the stuff that eve has over other games)
Now I can pvp to my hearts content and still earn enough LP (yes even at teir 1 and the -50% gearing) to fund my pvp. I sometimes spend hours just orbitng the button and other time I can't do it for more than 10 mins before leroying into whatever target i find cos i'm so bored.
Guys (and gals) just undock and go make FW what you want from it, stop yer whinging and go do it FFS
:end of rant: That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |
Corelyn
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
0
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Posted - 2013.01.02 14:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
Good read this was. Now, back to steamrolling the Minmatar systems. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
375
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Posted - 2013.01.03 03:14:00 -
[89] - Quote
The factions have been at war for centuries.. I doubt the conflict ending is a real worry.. |
Antares 04
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
43
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Posted - 2013.01.03 06:41:00 -
[90] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:The factions have been at war for centuries.. I doubt the conflict ending is a real worry..
Incorrect, the Federation and Proto-State was at war for 100 years, then had peace for 100 other years, the Amarrian Empire had a conflict with the rebelling Minmatar that lasted for a few decades from out-break to resolution, at most. Then they too had 100 years of peace. This current war has been going for... what, 5 years? That's half a decade, in that case.
Still, as you say, it's not likely to end in a loooong time yet. More than enough time to fight each other for years more.
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