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Shawn James
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
0
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Posted - 2013.06.26 11:24:00 -
[151] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Sigras wrote:[quote=Nikk Narrel]All details being considered and weighted... It seems the answer to AFK Cloaking's terror aspect is to ignore it while they are cloaked. (A cloaked vessel not being capable of inflicting damage directly)
when your ship is cloaked:
you cannot move or warp your camera bot turns off otherwise it will be detected you cannot see local you cannot see your overview you cannot communicate with probes you cannot use your ship scanner you cannot use your directional scanner you cannot be in fleet to provide a warp in
If all those things were true, then yes cloaked ships really couldnt inflict damage and it would be ok to remove them from local, but if any of these things are not true, cloaked ships can provide free from danger intel and therefore need to be in local. This is a sister thread to one detailing a method to hunt cloaked vessels. The balance point for that is, yes you guessed it, not being freely displayed in local.
This suggestion is what I was referring to when I stated it would break cloak ships. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1945
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Posted - 2013.06.26 13:30:00 -
[152] - Quote
Shawn James wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Sigras wrote:[quote=Nikk Narrel]All details being considered and weighted... It seems the answer to AFK Cloaking's terror aspect is to ignore it while they are cloaked. (A cloaked vessel not being capable of inflicting damage directly)
when your ship is cloaked:
you cannot move or warp your camera bot turns off otherwise it will be detected you cannot see local you cannot see your overview you cannot communicate with probes you cannot use your ship scanner you cannot use your directional scanner you cannot be in fleet to provide a warp in
If all those things were true, then yes cloaked ships really couldnt inflict damage and it would be ok to remove them from local, but if any of these things are not true, cloaked ships can provide free from danger intel and therefore need to be in local. This is a sister thread to one detailing a method to hunt cloaked vessels. The balance point for that is, yes you guessed it, not being freely displayed in local. This suggestion is what I was referring to when I stated it would break cloak ships. I would take what Sigras said as an exaggerated troll, rather than a serious suggestion. The only vessel that fits his description would be one where the player is logged out, as even ships docked in a station can see local, and report to intel when new ships arrive in system. While ship spinning. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Sigras
Conglomo
442
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Posted - 2013.06.29 05:06:00 -
[153] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Shawn James wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Sigras wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:All details being considered and weighted... It seems the answer to AFK Cloaking's terror aspect is to ignore it while they are cloaked. (A cloaked vessel not being capable of inflicting damage directly) I would agree with the following provisions; when your ship is cloaked: you cannot move or warp your camera bot turns off otherwise it will be detected you cannot see local you cannot see your overview you cannot communicate with probes you cannot use your ship scanner you cannot use your directional scanner you cannot be in fleet to provide a warp in If all those things were true, then yes cloaked ships really couldnt inflict damage and it would be ok to remove them from local, but if any of these things are not true, cloaked ships can provide free from danger intel and therefore need to be in local. This is a sister thread to one detailing a method to hunt cloaked vessels. The balance point for that is, yes you guessed it, not being freely displayed in local. This suggestion is what I was referring to when I stated it would break cloak ships. I would take what Sigras said as an exaggerated troll, rather than a serious suggestion. The only vessel that fits his description would be one where the player is logged out, as even ships docked in a station can see local, and report to intel when new ships arrive in system. While ship spinning. it was not a troll response; you stated that cloaked ships cannot inflict damage on the enemy and therefore should be removed from local.
I listed a series of ways that cloaked ships can infact inflict damage on the enemy. If those ways are removed, then I agree with your statement that there is no reason to have them in local, however if any of the above provisions stay, they represent actual damage able to be inflicted on the enemy and it would be unbalanced to have someone undetectable able to cause such damage. |
Nycodemis
National Institute of Mental Health
20
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Posted - 2013.06.29 05:57:00 -
[154] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:All details being considered and weighted... It seems the answer to AFK Cloaking's terror aspect is to ignore it while they are cloaked. (A cloaked vessel not being capable of inflicting damage directly)
As it is not currently possible to evaluate threat levels properly under the current system, I suggest we upgrade local to exclude vessels which are not capable of interacting with ships and objects directly.
For balance, I would deny these classifications from accessing local at all. Let them be sent chat information in a version of local missing the pilot roster, no free intel for them. (Fully delayed local for all pilots present but not listed)
The vessels which should fit this classification for full local exclusion I described:
Vessels within the shields of a POS (They cannot target or fire, AFK POS items are misleading) Vessels docked at an outpost (They cannot target or fire, AFK Outpost items are misleading) Vessels cloaked in a system (They cannot target or fire, AFK Cloaked items are misleading)
Upgrading local intel with improved relevancy in this manner will benefit players wanting to know the actual active players present.
I'm not 100% sure that I understand what you're asking for. Am I correct that you're asking for Ships in POS, docked or cloaked to be removed from local? If so, Hell Yes! Please make it so sitting cloaked off of a gate/w-hole/POS isn't noticed by my presence in local. Please make it so my cloaked heavy tackle isn't noticed by null-bears until I lock down their bling-Mach. If you can convince CCP to do this I'll contract you a fully high-meta fit gank-Vindi and my first born child in the station of your choice. |
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
15
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Posted - 2013.06.29 08:38:00 -
[155] - Quote
I wonder how some of you would fare in space that doesn't have local. |
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
40
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Posted - 2013.06.29 08:41:00 -
[156] - Quote
They're fixing afk cloaking in the same patch they're fixing off grid boosting. |
Sirran The Lunatic
Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords
10
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Posted - 2013.06.29 11:35:00 -
[157] - Quote
There is a man with a gun in my room.
I close my eyes.
Now there is no man with a gun in my room.
Phew.
:|
How about just grey/fade names out if they're inactive? Is that really too complicated? If they do as you're proposing, I'm just going to go murder ratters in nullsec until noone rats in nullsec anymore. PROBLEM SOLVED! Derp. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1959
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Posted - 2013.06.29 13:32:00 -
[158] - Quote
Nycodemis wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:All details being considered and weighted... It seems the answer to AFK Cloaking's terror aspect is to ignore it while they are cloaked. (A cloaked vessel not being capable of inflicting damage directly)
As it is not currently possible to evaluate threat levels properly under the current system, I suggest we upgrade local to exclude vessels which are not capable of interacting with ships and objects directly.
For balance, I would deny these classifications from accessing local at all. Let them be sent chat information in a version of local missing the pilot roster, no free intel for them. (Fully delayed local for all pilots present but not listed)
The vessels which should fit this classification for full local exclusion I described:
Vessels within the shields of a POS (They cannot target or fire, AFK POS items are misleading) Vessels docked at an outpost (They cannot target or fire, AFK Outpost items are misleading) Vessels cloaked in a system (They cannot target or fire, AFK Cloaked items are misleading)
Upgrading local intel with improved relevancy in this manner will benefit players wanting to know the actual active players present. I'm not 100% sure that I understand what you're asking for. Am I correct that you're asking for Ships in POS, docked or cloaked to be removed from local? If so, Hell Yes! Please make it so sitting cloaked off of a gate/w-hole/POS isn't noticed by my presence in local. Please make it so my cloaked heavy tackle isn't noticed by null-bears until I lock down their bling-Mach. If you can convince CCP to do this I'll contract you a fully high-meta fit gank-Vindi and my first born child in the station of your choice. LOL, this idea is one half of a larger concept for balance.
The truth is, there are several nearly interchangeable ideas regarding how to limit local enough to make hunting cloaked vessels balanced. Including both halves all in one thread under the same discussion causes confusion, as has been demonstrated in the past.
The second half, which allows for hunting of cloaked vessels in the absence of local reporting them, is here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2668453#post2668453
Here is a thread detailing things to supplement local, and make it's absence for intel gathering something less missed and more competitive all around: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112964&find=unread Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1959
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 13:34:00 -
[159] - Quote
Sirran The Lunatic wrote:There is a man with a gun in my room.
I close my eyes.
Now there is no man with a gun in my room.
Phew.
:|
How about just grey/fade names out if they're inactive? Is that really too complicated? If they do as you're proposing, I'm just going to go murder ratters in nullsec until noone rats in nullsec anymore. PROBLEM SOLVED! Derp. You were never using your eyes to know he was there.
You were seeing a list of "People you can chat with in your room"
Maybe using your eyes, and perhaps a flashlight too, would be the more sensible approach. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1959
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 13:39:00 -
[160] - Quote
Sigras wrote:I would agree with the following provisions; when your ship is cloaked: you cannot move or warp your camera bot turns off otherwise it will be detected you cannot see local you cannot see your overview you cannot communicate with probes you cannot use your ship scanner you cannot use your directional scanner you cannot be in fleet to provide a warp in If all those things were true, then yes cloaked ships really couldnt inflict damage and it would be ok to remove them from local, but if any of these things are not true, cloaked ships can provide free from danger intel and therefore need to be in local. Quote:This is a sister thread to one detailing a method to hunt cloaked vessels.
The balance point for that is, yes you guessed it, not being freely displayed in local. it was not a troll response; you stated that cloaked ships cannot inflict damage on the enemy and therefore should be removed from local. I listed a series of ways that cloaked ships can infact inflict damage on the enemy. If those ways are removed, then I agree with your statement that there is no reason to have them in local, however if any of the above provisions stay, they represent actual damage able to be inflicted on the enemy and it would be unbalanced to have someone undetectable able to cause such damage. And I am pointing out that since cloaked ships need to make an effort to do any of those, detecting them should take effort as well.
The part about not seeing local was first suggested by me to begin with. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1962
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 13:41:00 -
[161] - Quote
Evangelina Nolen wrote:I wonder how some of you would fare in space that doesn't have local. Well, since I enjoy going to effort, and reward indexes would increase to match, I would do well.
But then, I want to mine in null, not high sec. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Sigras
Conglomo
442
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 09:18:00 -
[162] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:And I am pointing out that since cloaked ships need to make an effort to do any of those, detecting them should take effort as well.
The part about not seeing local was first suggested by me to begin with. I agree completely, since cloaked ships require effort to give intel, the enemy should be required to put forth the exact same amount of effort to have the same intel provided to them.
cloaked ships can view local - no effort cloaked ships can be seen in local - no effort
cloaked ships can probe out other ships and spy on them / provide warp-ins - moderate effort fleets can fly patterns on the entire grid in the attempt to find a ship that may or may not be on grid - insurmountable effort
cloaked ships can use the D-scan to find enemy fleet locations and compositions - moderate effort fleets cannot use the d-scan to find cloaked ships ever - impossible effort
see the problem? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1963
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 20:16:00 -
[163] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:And I am pointing out that since cloaked ships need to make an effort to do any of those, detecting them should take effort as well.
The part about not seeing local was first suggested by me to begin with. I agree completely, since cloaked ships require effort to give intel, the enemy should be required to put forth the exact same amount of effort to have the same intel provided to them. cloaked ships can view local - no effort cloaked ships can be seen in local - no effort cloaked ships can probe out other ships and spy on them / provide warp-ins - moderate effort fleets can fly patterns on the entire grid in the attempt to find a ship that may or may not be on grid - insurmountable effort cloaked ships can use the D-scan to find enemy fleet locations and compositions - moderate effort fleets cannot use the d-scan to find cloaked ships ever - impossible effort see the problem? Which is why I suggest the combined changes as follows: Cloaked ships cannot view local, or be seen in local
Fleet ships can use spotter modules and detect cloaked ships, as detailed: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2668453#post2668453
This can be through probes, or directly on grid overview. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Big Red Wardec Co Petition Blizzard
3032
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 22:00:00 -
[164] - Quote
Yet another "afk cloakers are so scary I want to nerf all uses of covert ops into oblivion" thread. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1963
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 22:12:00 -
[165] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Yet another "afk cloakers are so scary I want to nerf all uses of covert ops into oblivion" thread. Oh, not at all.
In fact, you are one of the few in assuming I want AFK cloakers to be nerfed.
I want them to be able to get kills, and have PvE players like myself need to compete in order to survive.
Always being able to avoid fights, with trivial effort, frankly is boring the real null miners to tears.
(And yes, those that could deal with all the other effects involved already moved to a wh, where roughing it really happens) Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2060
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:54:00 -
[166] - Quote
Local... the atmosphere is becoming ripe to look at it more seriously. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 18:02:00 -
[167] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: Vessels cloaked in a system (They cannot target or fire, AFK Cloaked items are misleading)
I would like to point out that this is actually not true for stealth bombers. How would this system affect them?
Also though the other ships may not be able to fire immediately, they can activate a cyno from cloak status. This is what the vast majority of the fuss is about. How does this get addressed.
Everything else about this is fine. Just those 2 issues specifically.
...
And also maybe star map statistics. But that's another debate. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2063
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 18:10:00 -
[168] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote: Vessels cloaked in a system (They cannot target or fire, AFK Cloaked items are misleading)
I would like to point out that this is actually not true for stealth bombers. How would this system affect them? Also though the other ships may not be able to fire immediately, they can activate a cyno from cloak status. This is what the vast majority of the fuss is about. How does this get addressed. Everything else about this is fine. Just those 2 issues specifically. ... And also maybe star map statistics. But that's another debate. Stealth bombers do not need to target, if they use the bomb. The bomb release cannot be done while maintaining a cloak, however. This is why they set up BMs before hand so they can insta warp after release, since they expect to be popped like soap bubbles otherwise.
The cyno cannot be done while cloaked either. There may be no targeting delay involved, but that doesn't mean anyone will ever see a cyno and wonder where the ship is that opened it. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 19:04:00 -
[169] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: Stealth bombers do not need to target, if they use the bomb. The bomb release cannot be done while maintaining a cloak, however. This is why they set up BMs before hand so they can insta warp after release, since they expect to be popped like soap bubbles otherwise.
The cyno cannot be done while cloaked either. There may be no targeting delay involved, but that doesn't mean anyone will ever see a cyno and wonder where the ship is that opened it.
If they use bombs then yeah, doesn't matter. Stealth bombers also come in torpedo and cyno flavors too.
The cyno can be used "while" cloaked, it does however bring the ship out of cloak uppon use. Yes I know this is just seems like nitpicking at words but the implications are changed completely.
Being able to use modules and in the case of the bomber targeting and engaging while being cloaked are a big deal. If this change does get implement then in the case of the SB it would be paramount to removing local entirely. One cyno SB or a gang of SBs could fly from system to system totally undetected with unchecked force projection and would be able to gank anyone at will. They would not show up in the new local until they were already engaging a target if not after its long dead depending on the delay.
This is the problem you were trying to avoid in the first place was it not? Allowing cloaks to be in system without being detected while also allowing locals to go about their business without fear of a camper. Or was it just a "CovertOps" remove local thread disguised by pretending to be impartial or "a 3rd side of the arguement"? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2063
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 19:49:00 -
[170] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote: Stealth bombers do not need to target, if they use the bomb. The bomb release cannot be done while maintaining a cloak, however. This is why they set up BMs before hand so they can insta warp after release, since they expect to be popped like soap bubbles otherwise.
The cyno cannot be done while cloaked either. There may be no targeting delay involved, but that doesn't mean anyone will ever see a cyno and wonder where the ship is that opened it.
If they use bombs then yeah, doesn't matter. Stealth bombers also come in torpedo and cyno flavors too. The cyno can be used "while" cloaked, it does however bring the ship out of cloak uppon use. Yes I know this is just seems like nitpicking at words but the implications are changed completely. Being able to use modules and in the case of the bomber targeting and engaging while being cloaked are a big deal. If this change does get implement then in the case of the SB it would be paramount to removing local entirely. One cyno SB or a gang of SBs could fly from system to system totally undetected with unchecked force projection and would be able to gank anyone at will. They would not show up in the new local until they were already engaging a target if not after its long dead depending on the delay. This is the problem you were trying to avoid in the first place was it not? Allowing cloaks to be in system without being detected while also allowing locals to go about their business without fear of a camper. Or was it just a "CovertOps" remove local thread disguised by pretending to be impartial or "a 3rd side of the arguement"? Ok, you are missing or assuming a few details.
One, when lighting a covert cyno, you are uncloaked for a full minute. Two, when transitioning from a gate cloak to the ship's internal hardware, there is a gap of a couple of seconds while it goes active.
The first is screamingly obvious, despite having bypassed a gate for the ones bridging in. They will cause a spike briefly until they are done loading system and activate their internal cloaks. That flickering whenever they enter or leave a system, by bridge or gate, is still going to happen.
The truly hidden covops pilots who stay put in the system will be less obvious, but they still need to worry about being hunted down, as I described in the sister thread to this one. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2668453#post2668453
The longer they are in any system that pays attention, the more likely it will be that someone does a proactive scan to check and see if there is a cloaked pilot around. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 20:02:00 -
[171] - Quote
Another bad post with carebear OP.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2063
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 20:10:00 -
[172] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Another bad post with carebear OP. Carebear?
Sure, you can believe that...
Lots of carebears want to see cloaked vessels not listed in local chat... they can't be afraid of things they can't see!
lol Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 21:27:00 -
[173] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:You guys know what I say is true. Wh space works because of a lot of things. Mostly the reward vs risk ratio but also very much because of the lack of hotdrops. Which again does lower the risk quite a bit without affecting reward. Why do you think people are comforable ratting in dreads? Its because they're not worried about getting plopped on my a gang of supers.
In null sec the vast majority of the reward is in moon goo. Everything else is minimal. The only reason null sec would be considered safer than high sec at any time is because of player interaction. If we wernt able to set blue standing to our neighbors then everyone would be cloaky camping eachother 24/7. The only reason this isn't as rampant of a problem as it could be is because of the massive blueness of null sec.
If every system was camped 24/7 the cost of living in null would far out weigh the benefits.
I'm sure you guys will find a way to disagree with this of course. I have no idea what you are trying to say here. The paragraph on WH space is reasonable. But then you veer off the rails after that. Sure a big part of the rewards in null are moon goo, but there are other resources, some that sit largely untapped. Null has lots of issues one of which is local as an intel tool. And it is a double edged sword...hence the reason it is balanced, although I'd argue not optimal.
What I'm saying is: The reason this (afk cloaking vs local) isn't a large enough issue to warrent immediate action is because of player interaction. If regions were fighting eachother instead of blue donuted then neighbors would more than likely be camping eachother constantly making it mostly impossible to perform any isk making activity. But thanks to the "blue donut" mentality of null and the ability to claim oceans of sov there is a physical barrier between hostile groups. Causing them to have to go far out of their way to mess with each other. Infact you could consider the huge sov fields an effect of the campy stuff. The larger your buffer between you and your enemies, the safer you'll be. God forbid your home system is in blops bridge range from a hostile system. How much ratting/mining do you think would be going on there?
As for local, yeah its balanced in a way now. Cloaks (covert ops especially) are not. Local gives intel away freely to anyone/everyone. Cloaks on the otherhand can probe, d-scan and visually see other ships where as other ships cannot probe,dscan or see them.
Maybe make a module or ship that can dscan cloaked ships. This would make a cloak hunter viable but also require very high player skill to be successful. Also could delay dscan recalibration on the ship/module so you can't just spam it constantly. Also instead of the shiptype/name it could just say "cloak field" so friendly cloakers might misslead you and you inadvertantly uncloak them while they're afk.
Seems like the least change possible to do something about it. And its easy enough to avoid detection if you're at your keyboard. Also seems funny if you screw over your corp/alliance mates and get them killed. (Accidentily or intentionally) :) |
Eep Eep
EVEalopalous
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 21:32:00 -
[174] - Quote
I don't think it is a good idea. Psychological warfare is an amazing aspect of war (and eve).
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2066
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 21:34:00 -
[175] - Quote
Uhhh, Erutpar Ambient, that reply seems to be drawing from a different thread than this.... miss-post? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2066
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 21:43:00 -
[176] - Quote
Eep Eep wrote:I don't think it is a good idea. Psychological warfare is an amazing aspect of war (and eve). Actually, it is still possible to mount quite a successful campaign using psyche warfare under this proposal.
It will not be possible in a more passive sense without more risk, but it's a given you can cause pilots to dock up.
They will know you are active.
They won't know where in the system you are, how you are watching them, or what it is you are flying. Even if they figure out what you are flying, they won't know how it is fitted.
You just need to do two things:
One, move around based on a time expectation for someone scanning for you. It will take them time to position probes for this, and my sister thread proposal allows a ship to treat your cloak as if it did not exist for that hunting ship searching.
Two: Broadcast that you are in system, and watching people. All PvE will dock up and reship as PvP to track you down, since that will become their priority.
You don't need to stay in the system. You won't show up on local either way. You will want to pop back in periodically, to remind them they are being thought about. You can hold multiple systems in check this way, so long as you are clever and move fast.
Expect bubbles to be placed if they figure out you are moving between systems though.... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
53
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Posted - 2013.07.12 22:13:00 -
[177] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Uhhh, Erutpar Ambient, that reply seems to be drawing from a different thread than this.... miss-post? Its all related.
One affects the other affects another.
Basically what I'm saying is if you implement this change it will give covert ops cloaks too much power and utility. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2066
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 22:42:00 -
[178] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Uhhh, Erutpar Ambient, that reply seems to be drawing from a different thread than this.... miss-post? Its all related. One affects the other affects another. Basically what I'm saying is if you implement this change it will give covert ops cloaks too much power and utility. Edit: maybe it was the wrong thread, who knows. Lol postin from my cell phone :p Yes, on it's own this would give the covops an advantage.
But, as I already pointed out above, this is a sister thread to it's other half, which deals with hunting the cloaked vessels.
Each half of this concept can be mixed and matched with others, but these are the two which bring together the best gameplay elements form the various ideas I have seen.
There is a third thread, which actually stands alone, and explains how to improve the overview for more practical intel gathering. It is not needed in this context, but it is still useful if tied in. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Fishymonster
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 01:12:00 -
[179] - Quote
The way to get rid of AFK cloaks is to require the cloak operator to actually be at their keyboard. Put a cycle timer on cloaks, 10 minutes with a 30 to 15 seconds variable cooldown. Variable meaning it could take 30 seconds to reactivate or 15, or any time in between. Someone afk could simply set up a keyboard macro to click their cloak button every 10 minutes and 31 seconds you say? If they are afk and someone is actively probing for them they will get a delayed sensor signal every cycle. Over a few cycles the prober could eventually lock and and get a warp in at which point the AFK pvper would become vulnerable to attack. The non-afk pvper would simply warp somewhere every 30 minutes and avoid all the efforts of the prober. All of a sudden you solve all these problems without creating any new ones for people playing the game CCP intended *CCP has stated their intentions that ONLY people that are actually at their keyboards should be able to have an affect on other players*. If you would rather be able to not show up in local to be able to sneak up easily on people, go play in wormholes. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2069
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 15:47:00 -
[180] - Quote
Fishymonster wrote:The way to get rid of AFK cloaks is to require the cloak operator to actually be at their keyboard. Put a cycle timer on cloaks, 10 minutes with a 30 to 15 seconds variable cooldown. Variable meaning it could take 30 seconds to reactivate or 15, or any time in between. Someone afk could simply set up a keyboard macro to click their cloak button every 10 minutes and 31 seconds you say? If they are afk and someone is actively probing for them they will get a delayed sensor signal every cycle. Over a few cycles the prober could eventually lock and and get a warp in at which point the AFK pvper would become vulnerable to attack. The non-afk pvper would simply warp somewhere every 30 minutes and avoid all the efforts of the prober. All of a sudden you solve all these problems without creating any new ones for people playing the game CCP intended *CCP has stated their intentions that ONLY people that are actually at their keyboards should be able to have an affect on other players*. If you would rather be able to not show up in local to be able to sneak up easily on people, go play in wormholes. See, this is an example of a shortsighted idea.
Long story short, this makes PvE too safe, and rewards get nerfed to compensate.
Why do you hate rewards? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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