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Cannedbeef
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Posted - 2005.06.02 10:55:00 -
[1]
Heya, Im just curious if anyone with any experience with assault frigates know how well they work from a PvP perspective. Im thinking about flying one, but I dont know which race to turn to, most of my gunnery skill so far have been put in to the basic non-race specific, so any race is really avaliable to me, as none would put me back more than a week or so.
What AF holds the mantle of PvP champ? I know this is an incredibly biased question, so maybe the question of what AF suits which PvP roles best (tank, sheer damage, tackler...), as frankly im interested in sheer damage. Hulltank 4tw. :)
Ive been looking at the Wolf, Harpy and Retribution so far.. Enyo seems too focused on tanking, not that interested in drone micromanagement for the Ishkur, and the other AF's seem like more defensive or tackler alternatives to the three ive mentioned above.
anyone have any ideas or advice?
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:00:00 -
[2]
I know both the wolf and the enyo can lay out a whupping. As for highest damage over time, not sure.
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Cannedbeef
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:05:00 -
[3]
Er, I guess the role I want this for is for downing frigs/interceptors/AFs/cruisers fast, and helping to contribute to larger ship kills :)
So initial bust and DoT are both important
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Lyra VX
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:05:00 -
[4]
The Wolf has a very weird slow layout. Its bonus looks to favour shield tanks (bonus to EM and Thermal resistance in both armor and shield) but it only has two med slots.
It's damage bonus is the same as a Rifter and it's slower, but it gets a big range bonus from the AF skill (10% per level).
Personally, I'd like to see it lose a low slot and gain a med, or to switch the bonuses to kin/expl instead. It's an attempt at an "all-round" ship defensively, and it doesn't work. It's only hope - in my view - is for it to keep the range and snipe. Unfortunately, a T1 frigate such as a Merlin might surprise you with its long range bonuses (and, eugh, missiles) and give you a scare.
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eXaro
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:09:00 -
[5]
115dps on my harpy. and it tanks like a champ with gistii sheildboosers. killing other frigs is not a problem. fitt it expensivly and it wont disepoint you. a domination webber with 12k range will let you snipe your enemies to bits while they cant tuch you...
[i]Innocent child how you thought you knew me understood my ways my dark needs the hunt is not the thrill Im after I want the kill the conquest to |
Lyra VX
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:09:00 -
[6]
I hear more "teh rox0r" reports about the Harpy than any other AF, to be honest.
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Soros
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Soros on 02/06/2005 11:13:42
Originally by: Lyra VX
Personally, I'd like to see it lose a low slot and gain a med, Quote:
Thats what we call a jaguar . . .
Wolf has alot high damage output than a rifter, and can fit more guns (up to 4)
harpy is awsome, if you can keep your range (can hit up to 16k + with AM)
ishkur has a nice drone bay, and works well with nos.
retri has the best tank but least med slots (1)
Its personal preferance, jag, hawk, ishkur and vengeance are the slightly less powered but more balanced ships. wolf harpy enyo and retri are high damage etc :D
-= Soros =-
= Firmux Ixion =
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Cannedbeef
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:12:00 -
[8]
To be honest im going to outfit it fairly cheaply, tech2 at best, as I just want an expendable ship I can play around with :)
But I will take the Harpy in to definite consideration
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pshepherd
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:12:00 -
[9]
the only problem with assault frigates is that their slow as hell
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Glassback
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:17:00 -
[10]
I fly a Enyo and a corp mate uses a Harpy.
I have 4 125 prot gauss rails and he uses 4 125 T2 rails and we pounded each other till our ammo ran out with no winner.
My Enyo will tank and kill any 'ceptor, just change ammo for rangees, iron will still kill. You will easily kill any T1 frig. Never fought a cruiser PvP yet so don't know, but I can solo lvl3 Guris Extrav's with no problems.
It's a damn good ship set up properly, but expensive to lose as the insurance is pants. However IMHO an assault frig is only meant for fighting so best you fight with it! Yarr!
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Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:20:00 -
[11]
Retribution can tank really nicely, and at the same time do good damage. Its major flaw is the single medslot which limits its setups quite a bit. If you fit 2 MAPC you can put 4 medium beam II on it, which with microwave crystals or radio has an optimal range of 30k+, and can make ok hits out to 45km.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
Glassback
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Posted - 2005.06.02 11:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cannedbeef To be honest im going to outfit it fairly cheaply, tech2 at best, as I just want an expendable ship I can play around with :)
But I will take the Harpy in to definite consideration
IMHO AF's are for fitting the best kit you can get, and then fighting with. If you want to go half arsed buy a Kessie.
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Muad 'dib
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cannedbeef To be honest im going to outfit it fairly cheaply, tech2 at best, as I just want an expendable ship I can play around with :)
I have a very expensive harpy (Gistii 4tw), but for my disposable AF i use the Jag and the Hawk depending on what i might incounter. Both are cheap to buy and to fit, and are fairly okay on speed, but tbh if your after something faster that isnt a cepter just go for a normal tier 3 frig :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
/|\. '/\' The Wild West Made Me Quicker On The DRAW Than You |
xenorx
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:29:00 -
[14]
Retribution gets my vote. If properly fitted you have awsome firepower, range and tank. The only problem with it is the single mid. You will not be able to hold anything down. However, if they are crazy enough to engage you they will die very fast. Still would have been nice if they had dropped one low for a mid though.
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Fi T'Zeh
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:31:00 -
[15]
Guess it depends what you want to do. For a frig "gank fleet" (just ask the guys in YZ-LQL what one of those is), i take my wolf. 4 x 280 ii's is not to be sniffed at. Stick a rocket launcher in the top to fend off the missiles. I always take a web not a scrambler, that's what inties are for... And i have taken a thorax solo in it. Not sure the guy was up to much tho as he didn't launch his drones....
If i'm soloing i do prefer the enyo, more survivability and 125mm 2's dish out serious pain.
One thing. Whatever you choose, DO NOT PUT A MWD ON IT. ....
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Bazman
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:46:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Bazman on 02/06/2005 13:48:10 I think the Harpy has the best deal out of all the Assaults. You can't surpass it for range vs damage ability. And the fact that the railguns are surprisingly effective against all assault frigates except other Caldari and Gallente assaults (for example, Min and Ammar ships are only tanked naturally against one type of damage the railguns do, so you still score very damaging hits on them)
Assault ship sluggishness is really something you shouldn't be conserned about, apart from inties and most other T1 frigs, they are still the quickest ships to align for warp.
The Hawk is a good choice for going against other assaults, you can absolutely spank any other assault ship with it if you use it as a missle platform. With its ROF bonus you can get about 5.75 seconds ROF with Arbalest standards. Use arbalest rockets and it should be something insane like 6 rockets per 10 seconds :o
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.02 14:42:00 -
[17]
Nightmare:
Enyo with blasters was gank warped on top of you by covertops |
Taaser
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Posted - 2005.06.02 14:52:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Taaser on 02/06/2005 14:52:17
Enyo; hands down IMHO.
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Soros
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Posted - 2005.06.02 14:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Taaser Edited by: Taaser on 02/06/2005 14:52:17
Enyo; hands down IMHO.
Yup, enyo rocks, but any AF can get killed by a cruiser, I have killed a number of harpy's enyo's and ishkurs, but the only thing I have not yet managed to kill is a olwf or jag, it has always been a stalement (I can tank their damage they can tank mine)
soros :D
-= Soros =-
= Firmux Ixion =
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Robstr
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Posted - 2005.06.02 16:56:00 -
[20]
I'm a big fan of the Enyo and, although not initialy, I have grown to love the ishkur.
The enyo can fit a very reasonasble tank and a mag stab or 2, and realy pump out that damage at med ranges, fit a web so things can't get to close, good times.
What suprised me was the ishkur, it's a very good inti-AF ship, fit with a nos, 125's, AB web, Scram, and a bunch of drones + lowslot tank. That little drain form the nos goes a LONG way breaking another AF's tank.
The harpy is a great ship aswell, you can fit 150's and snipe(frigate sniping?!) or 125's and dish it out med range. The tank can be iffy, as the small SB definently can't be run constantly. But it's a good ship.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.06.02 19:15:00 -
[21]
Its a tossup between the enyo and the harpy, for damage per second, tankability, versatility and ease of fitting.
I pick the enyo because it tracks better, and tanks better though some swear by the harpy because its real easy to fit. Has more power and cpu than the wolf and more cpu than the enyo.
Retri is pretty limited due to its one midslot but its got a crapload of damage and its pretty good at tanking too.
Wolf does the best one-volley damage and thus its good for killing tech 1 frigates... but who actually flies them? Its got the lowest dps of them all and its really hard to fit, but people who fly it know what they are doing. If you get one prepare to have loads of fun trying to cram on a second or even third damage mod if you can, since thats all its really good for, hitting hard. Its better in a group setting than alone.
The ishkur, jaguar, hawk and vengeance are pretty lame in my opinion.
So if you're mostly interested in damage but want other options get a harpy.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.06.02 19:22:00 -
[22]
<- looks at vengeance's cpu and start thinking... EVIL, evil, evil... only problem is that dmg output is sooooo poor that has problems in breaking other af's tank.
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babo
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Posted - 2005.06.02 19:24:00 -
[23]
enyo is my personal favorite. tanks like a beast.. deals out insane damage if set up right.. plus, it is just fun to fly...
used it a lot for lvl 3 missions and it tears them up fast and you will be laughing watching it easily tank everything they throw at you. For pvp, combine it with a taranis and I have seen them take down pretty much everything they cross, check killboards and you will see some pretty crazy kills with this combo.
For NPC, I have taken on battleship NPC's and flew away without tank ever even getting close to dropping, but swarms will kill it.. so avoid that..
Three ships I always try to keep at least one of each at all times. Taranis, Enyo and Ishtar... (Deimos for only PVP, but slow times Ishtar is a great NPC also ship..)
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.02 19:36:00 -
[24]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 02/06/2005 19:41:39
Originally by: Selim Wolf does the best one-volley damage and thus its good for killing tech 1 frigates... but who actually flies them? Its got the lowest dps of them all and its really hard to fit, but people who fly it know what they are doing. If you get one prepare to have loads of fun trying to cram on a second or even third damage mod if you can, since thats all its really good for, hitting hard. Its better in a group setting than alone.
Selim while I usually agree with your pro-minmatar rants, I gotta disagree and say that wolf is overall the best assault frig. Its fast. Its agile. It does ridiculous burst damage, DoT doesnt really matter in frig v frig combat. Hell, a taranis with neutron blasters heavily outdamages a gankwolf, but i'll also kill that taranis in 1.5-2 volleys. Its arguably the best anti-inty/frig ship in the game (uber fast lock + they die in 1.5-2 volleys). Its cheap to buy. Its cheap to fit. Its got good range. It looks so awesome. It is arguably the best podkilling platform in the game (a little ahead of claw thanks to extra targeting range + gun range). It also has a good tank if you shield tank it with no afterburner, but i like going fast and need that ab II :).
Yes, enyos and harpys are "better." But enyos and harpys are both about 5mil+ more expensive, are slow and unagile, and cant instagank frigs and intys. And a wolf setup for 1v1 can't be beat by any other assault except maybe a ishkur.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.06.02 19:46:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Selim on 02/06/2005 19:47:02 I didnt say its the worst, it has its uses, I just wish it was easier to fit. Thats my only real problem with it. It gets ridiculous when it has less powergrid than the CALDARI one. Either it needs more CPU or it needs more powergrid. I'd take an extra 7 powergrid to bring it up to 55. Slightly less than the amarr, but more than the harpy and enyo (who have much more cpu).
Oh and cost wise of course t2 minmatar things come on top. I suppose that should be factored in.
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.02 19:47:00 -
[26]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 02/06/2005 19:47:42
Originally by: Selim I didnt say its the worst, it has its uses, I just wish it was easier to fit. Thats my only real problem with it. It gets ridiculous when it has less powergrid than the CALDARI one. Either it needs more CPU or it needs more powergrid. I'd take an extra 7 powergrid to bring it up to 55. Slightly less than the amarr, but more than the harpy and enyo (who have much more cpu).
I completely agree with you that it needs more cpu or grid. Its got ridiculous amounts of both. And don't even get me started on the resists vs the slot layout...
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.06.02 20:31:00 -
[27]
Edited by: R31D on 02/06/2005 20:31:36 I quite like my Hawk. It has tanked Harpy's many a time. Once ou are within web range, it's all over for the other AF. I've used a medium shield booster II on it (didn't want to risk Gistii), but now with a gistii, it's even better. The ability to deal all 4 types of damage (2xlaunchers + therm/kin of rails) means it can find the weakpoint in most other AF's tank. Fit it up with blasters/rockets, and it turns into a pretty good damage dealer too
edit: also beaten Enyo's in it. Only other AF I really fear is the Ishkur (because it can just run away, and let it's drones kill you off)
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Arbenowskee
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Posted - 2005.06.02 21:14:00 -
[28]
depens on what u want. U want firepower? go for wolf, retribution or enyo. U want more all-round ship? go for harpy, vengeance or jaguar. if u want to be "special"? go for ishkur or hawk.
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babo
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Posted - 2005.06.02 21:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Arbenowskee depens on what u want. U want firepower? go for wolf, retribution or enyo. U want more all-round ship? go for harpy, vengeance or jaguar. if u want to be "special"? go for ishkur or hawk.
"special" hehe..
Ishkur is a pretty decent ship with Assault skill at higher levels (lower levels I say no), the resistances just go crazy on any of these ships with higher assault skill.
And thinking about it.. a nossing ishkur with drones might be able to wreck just about anything...
Though, I still like my enyo ;)
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Shayla Sh'inlux
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:21:00 -
[30]
Enyo and Harp contest for #1 spot, I think. Harp is a long range hell, but can't tank and tackle, which kinda sucks for an anti-frigate ship.
Enyo has the 2 midslot problem, but just a web is usually enough to shred a frig before it can align. That tracking bonus also helps a lot, whereas the Harp's double range bonus isn't that helful imo.
However, for pure DoT please take a look at the ishkur. Has 3 midslot, so it can tackle anything. It can field up to 10 light drones (let's be realistic and say 8 or 9) which greatly improves your DoT especially considering that you obviously take EM and EXP drones and do all 4 damage types. On top of that light drones are great FoF decoy and leave nothing of frigates and even t1 cruisers.
Heck, I gave a Muninn a hard time in an Enyo once.
For PvP, Ishkur all the way. For gank squads and PvE, take a Harp or Enyo. ------------------------------------------------------- "Do you really think that's air you're breathing?" |
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