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Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
8
   |
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've created a formula for the new Bounty-System long ago:
(here my old post but ill write it down again over here)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2007183#post2007183
The current system has a much too low Bounty-Payout-Percentage and makes it worthless to hunt for ppl with higher bounties. A person with a very high bounty should be more valuable to hunt down and it should be worth it to hunt those indivuals.
Current state:
1. If the bounty on his head is 20% of his ships hull it's high enough, any higher bounty wont help the bounty-hunter.
2. If you fight with equal ships the bounty hunter needs to kill the target 4-5 times for each time the target destroys him. Only with killstats higher than 83% (battleclinic) does the bounty hunter not loose isk. This is NOT the foundation of a worthwhile profession.
-> hunting players with bounties will only cost you isk unless you are one of the best pvpers on the server.
I tried to come up with a solution for these issues. Formulas are below. What do you think?
If you dont care for explanations and formulas i posted a table on 5.1 which shows what would be happening.
1.1 Insurance:
I felt the following was missing:
Calculating in the insurance. Otherwise it will be less worth it or a way to generate free isk or even a way to "sell" insured ships
If a thing A has a bounty on him/them and character B destroys his ship/pod the following formulas could aply:
]2.1 Variables:
bountyPool = "Bounty-pool that has been placed on a character/corp/alliance"
destroyedIsk = "The complete value of the destroyed ISK"
bountyKill = "The amount of isk player B recieves for the kill"
ratio = "some percentage below 100% that is assigned to the killer"
destroyedShip = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed ship"
payedInsurance = "Insurance payed to A"
destroyedItems = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed items in that ship"
destroyedImplants = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed implants"
3.1: This is what the killer gets:
destroyedIsk = destroyedShip-payedInsurance+destroyedItems+destroyedImplants
bountyKill = ratio*(destroyedIsk)
If(bountyKill>bountyPool ){bountyKill=bountyPool}
bountyKill should of course never exceed bountyPool
3.2: This is the remaining Bounty pool:
bountyPool = bountyPool - bountyKill
4.1: Depending payout on Bounty on his/her head
That would be some easy formula.
However, with the above formulas it doesn't matter if u kill the T2-fitted Talos of the most hated player in the universe or just some minor player who happens to have just enough bounty to pay out for the Talos-Kill.
ratio could be calculated instead of beeing a fix value. For example:
ratio = -0.4 *destroyedIsk / bountyPool +0.7
If(ratio<0.3 ){ratio=0.3})
Less than 30% would be weak (:
This formular for example would give a bounty-percentage between 30% and 70%
5. 1: Easy example:
You attacked a player with a bounty on his head. He was flying a Talos worth 110mio. After u destroyed his ship he received an insurance of 20mio. 30mio worth of items dropped. That leaves a total of 60mio destroyed, which is gone for good.
Using my above formulas that means the bounty will be a percentage of those 60mio. A theoretical maximum of 70% (42mio) will be received by the headhunter, depending on the bounty on the targets head.
The following table shows the bounty u get depending on the bounty on the characters head.
BountyPool has 10mio -> 10 mio payed (16% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 20mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 30mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 40mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 50mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 60mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 80mio -> 24 mio payed (40% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 100mio -> 27,6 mio payed (46% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 500mio -> 39,12 mio payed (65% of the destroyed value)
BountyPool has 1000mio -> 40,56 mio payed (67% of the destroyed value)
6.1 Notes
- It is important that the received bounty NEVER exeeds the worth of the destroyed ship/implants. Otherwise people will claim their own bounties.
- Displaying the received bounty on your profile/corp should be possible to show off your skills as a bounty-hunter
- Not allowing to receive bounties for destroyed implants could be usefull to not favor "selling of plugged-in implants" this way
6.2 adjusting Formula
- I'm trying to promote my formula here, because it should be more flexible and higher than it currently is. I'm NOT trying to promote the range from 30% to 70% i used in my formula. Those amounts can be easily adjusted if needed.
regards
Destriouth Hollow |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
18
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you care for explanations and formulas i posted these here:
1.1 Insurance:
I felt the following was missing:
Calculating in the insurance. Otherwise it will be less worth it or a way to generate free isk or even a way to "sell" insured ships
If a thing A has a bounty on him/them and character B destroys his ship/pod the following formulas could aply:
2.1 Variables:
bountyPool = "Bounty-pool that has been placed on a character/corp/alliance"
destroyedIsk = "The complete value of the destroyed ISK"
bountyKill = "The amount of isk player B recieves for the kill"
ratio = "some percentage below 100% that is assigned to the killer"
destroyedShip = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed ship"
payedInsurance = "Insurance payed to A"
destroyedItems = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed items in that ship"
destroyedImplants = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed implants"
3.1: Payout depending on Bounty on his/her head
However, with the current formulas it doesn't matter if u kill the T2-fitted Talos of the most hated player in the universe or just some minor player who happens to have just enough bounty to pay out for the Talos-Kill.
ratio could be calculated instead of beeing a fix value. For example:
ratio = -0.4 *destroyedIsk / bountyPool +0.7
If(ratio<0.3 ){ratio=0.3})
Less than 30% would be weak (:
This formular for example would give a bounty-percentage between 30% and 70%
4.1: This is what the killer gets:
destroyedIsk = destroyedShip-payedInsurance+destroyedItems+destroyedImplants
bountyKill = ratio*(destroyedIsk)
If(bountyKill>bountyPool ){bountyKill=bountyPool}
bountyKill should of course never exceed bountyPool
4.2: This is the remaining Bounty pool:
bountyPool = bountyPool - bountyKill
5.1 Notes
- It is important that the received bounty NEVER exeeds the worth of the destroyed ship/implants. Otherwise people will claim their own bounties.
- Displaying the received bounty on your profile/corp should be possible to show off your skills as a bounty-hunter
- Not allowing to receive bounties for destroyed implants could be usefull to not favor "selling of plugged-in implants" this way
- I've created this formula for the new Bounty-System long ago:
(here my old post but ill write it down again over here)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2007183#post2007183
-Using my formula will also prevent exploits because in order to get a good percentage out of a ship you will need to drop 10times its worth as bounty.
5.2 Adjusting the Formula
- I'm trying to promote my formula here, because it should be more flexible and higher than it currently is. I'm NOT trying to promote the range from 30% to 70% i used in my formula. Those amounts can be easily adjusted if needed.
- The needed formula is:
ratio = (minimumPayout-maximumPayout) *destroyedIsk / bountyPool +maximumPayout
(in my example minimumPayout=0.3 and MaximumPayout=0.7)
- It's also possible to make the ratio converge against 0.7 much slower:
ratio = (minimumPayout-maximumPayout) *squareroot(destroyedIsk / bountyPool) +maximumPayout
regards
Destriouth Hollow |
fukier
RISE of LEGION
417
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
i need a tldr.
something like its better and cant be exploited would be nice...
i dont care if the payouts increase just as long as it never = more then the price of the ship and that includes FW payouts...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
18
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
whats a tldr?
This system cannot be exploited!
You can never get as much as the lost assets are worth.
You would ALWAYS fair better if you just sold it (:
(if CCP takes the correct-item-prices that is)
EDIT:
Ill fix it so its easier to understand with reading just the essentials. |
fukier
RISE of LEGION
417
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:whats a tldr?
This system cannot be exploited!
You can never get as much as the lost assets are worth.
You would ALWAYS fair better if you just sold it (:
(if CCP takes the correct-item-prices that is)
EDIT:
Ill fix it so its easier to understand with reading just the essentials.
tldr means Too Long, Didn't Read
as in give me a synopsis...
like the responce was a good tldr...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
18
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's mainly targeted at the DEVs but i'm trying to make it readable for everybody.
Hope it's better now (: |
fukier
RISE of LEGION
417
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:It's mainly targeted at the DEVs but i'm trying to make it readable for everybody.
Hope it's better now (:
yes much better now...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
FoxBird Freir
Raven's Flight
Nulli Legio
20
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 22:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Removing the insurance system, now that would bring some interesting opportuneties to the bounty system. |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
18
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 22:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
What does the insurance-system have to do with anything?
It would reduce PvP in EVE by a lot. It would make minerals and therefore ships more expensive. That would reduce PvP even further. Sure it would hurt people with bounties on their heads but it would also hurt bountyhunters for the same amount.
Don't think I like your idea (: |
FoxBird Freir
Raven's Flight
Nulli Legio
20
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 22:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
I like it, put some risk back into the game aswell as letting the t1 ships see more use. It also allows for far greater payouts for opportunists and for the avrage carebear it won't matter much.
And i don't see the whole reducing pvp argument though you are welcome to elaborate on that.
Also i've never gotten a mineral insurance payout, unless you are refering to that 1 trit.. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
THE ROYAL NAVY
998
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 22:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Supported.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Lexmana
755
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 22:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
(if CCP takes the correct-item-prices that is)
This I think is the main issue here. CCP is not really god at putting value on all items. Sure most items are OK but to be unexploitable ALL items need to be OK. I do agree they probably have too much margin today. But I also know of items in game with grossly inflated values that are probably being exploited as we speak. If CCP could come up with a better way to value items I think your idea is good. |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 17:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
they could just take some very low border for the value. like the the most expensive market-sell-order of the 10% cheapest sell-orders in highsec (for everything but capitals) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3250
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 17:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP has already said they are willing to look at modifications to the payout numbers. They started at a pretty modest point to let it run for awhile and make sure they hadn't overlooked ways to game the system... so your proposal isn't out of line.
Although, no matter how you look at it, you are still going to run into the hard cap of loss value that cannot be exceeded. Under the current system people with higher bounties really aren't "More Wanted" (unless they fly very expensive ships, in which case that higher bounty does make them worth more than someone with a low bounty), it is more the fact that they remain wanted for a much longer period of time than people with low bounties.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 11:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
I added the issue with disbanding corps/alliances to my thread. |
DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 12:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you want my two cents on this - probably not :) - bounties on positive sec standing characters should not have a "Wanted" sign on it, and stay the way it is more or less, and for those that have been tagged as lawbreakers with neg sec status have a slightly modified system, like your idea sort of thing. |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.06 21:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ganging someone in Highsec will never earn you isk, unless the target flies a really expensive ship without enough tank.
Everybody else can be freely attked anyway (disregarding sentries).
If someone wants to pay to see someone dead, why not let him? |
Lord LazyGhost
Kadavr Black Guard
Shadow Cartel
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.06 21:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think being able to filter the amount of the bounty. I ie only show pilots with X amount on overview so as to get ride of all the 100kwwasters out there so say I choose show only pilots with over 10m and only a hers with that or larger bounty will have icon.. I whT ya think? |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
695
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 01:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bounty Time Limits
Just like when you place a recruitment ad for you corp, make people select a time frame for their bounty and tack on a service charge based on that.
1 day: 5%
7 days: 10%
30 days: 15%
90 days: 20%
If the bounty isn't collected by the time it expires then the money is refunded. Service fees are non-refundable. That should clear up about 95% of the pointless hi-sec bounties out there by the end of April.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1388
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 02:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
the idea is great but the problem are the corner cases. In eve it is very difficult to say what something costs. Having a payout of 20% is simply a safety measure to make market manipulation difficult. If this problem would be solved, you could rise the payout to 70% by default without the scaling.
The scaling would still exclude the "alt kill" problem under IDEAL conditions (no open market) but would make market manipulation exploits easier.
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Mars Theran
Red Rogue Squadron
1590
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 07:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
fukier wrote:Destriouth Hollow wrote:whats a tldr?
This system cannot be exploited!
You can never get as much as the lost assets are worth.
You would ALWAYS fair better if you just sold it (:
(if CCP takes the correct-item-prices that is)
EDIT:
Ill fix it so its easier to understand with reading just the essentials. tldr means Too Long, Didn't Read as in give me a synopsis... like the responce was a good tldr...
I actually go with Too long; direct response = required or provided. ..you're right of course; that just happened to be my interpretation of it. 
Personally, it didn't look to me like the formula solved any sort of exploit system with high bounty payouts. Insure the ship for 1/4 the insurance payout, add the ship kill bounty of 67% mentioned and you're making ISK for killing your ship with an alt. A little more trouble than collecting the whole bounty for a podkill maybe, but still an available exploit.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
148
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 07:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
2. Curentlly the bounty is a fix value. The killer gets 20% no matter how high the bounty on the targets head is. This discourages placing high bounties on people. People wih higher bounties are actually NOT more wanted.
While i in general agree with your points i think this is at least in part an invalid argument. A lower percentage also means there will be more ISK wise damage inflicted because of my bounty until the money runs out. So at the moment the guy that sets the bounty inflicts 5 times the ISK damage on the target. If you rise that percentage, the more you have to pay for revenge and the more unattractive it will get.
So there is a trade off there that has to be accounted for |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
23
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 12:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:I think being able to filter the amount of the bounty. I ie only show pilots with X amount on overview so as to get ride of all the 100kwwasters out there so say I choose show only pilots with over 10m and only a hers with that or larger bounty will have icon.. I whT ya think?
Totally supported
I'll add that to my entry-post
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Bounty Time Limits
Just like when you place a recruitment ad for you corp, make people select a time frame for their bounty and tack on a service charge based on that.
1 day: 5%
7 days: 10%
30 days: 15%
90 days: 20%
If the bounty isn't collected by the time it expires then the money is refunded. Service fees are non-refundable. That should clear up about 95% of the pointless hi-sec bounties out there by the end of April.
This wouldnt change the abuse-matter at all. It would only make it more convinient for them and open up for further exploits.
Also I think, if you place a bounty on someone u need to be fully commited!
Id only refund the bounty when the alliance or corp disbands.
Bienator II wrote:the idea is great but the problem are the corner cases. In eve it is very difficult to say what something costs. Having a payout of 20% is simply a safety measure to make market manipulation difficult. If this problem would be solved, you could rise the payout to 70% by default without the scaling.
The scaling would still exclude the "alt kill" problem under IDEAL conditions (no open market) but would make market manipulation exploits easier.
We need better prices. They need to be low-end, because thats what u can buy it for in highsec anyways. I posted a solution for that above.
Mars Theran wrote:
Personally, it didn't look to me like the formula solved any sort of exploit system with high bounty payouts. Insure the ship for 1/4 the insurance payout, add the ship kill bounty of 67% mentioned and you're making ISK for killing your ship with an alt. A little more trouble than collecting the whole bounty for a podkill maybe, but still an available exploit.
The formula solves this problem without any issues. insurance payout is subtracted from the bounty-viable amount. And from the rest you only get below 70%. And with the formula in the notes you would need to have a bounty of a above 10bil to even come close to these 70%. |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
23
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 12:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Destriouth Hollow wrote:
2. Curentlly the bounty is a fix value. The killer gets 20% no matter how high the bounty on the targets head is. This discourages placing high bounties on people. People wih higher bounties are actually NOT more wanted.
While i in general agree with your points i think this is at least in part an invalid argument. A lower percentage also means there will be more ISK wise damage inflicted because of my bounty until the money runs out. So at the moment the guy that sets the bounty inflicts 5 times the ISK damage on the target. If you rise that percentage, the more you have to pay for revenge and the more unattractive it will get. So there is a trade off there that has to be accounted for
The problem is that currently there is NO isk-wise damage inflicted AT ALL. 20% bounty is just not high enough to risk your ship while hunting him. It's only a nice bonus for someone you wanted to kill anyway. Currently you dont encourage people to hunt ppl with bounties, but you just pay those that shoot at them anyway.
And as soon as the bounty covers the next couple kills whats the meaning of putting a higher bounty on him? Nobody will care. You might as well just wait and bounty him when the current bounty ran out. Having the highest bounty in Eve just doesnt matter currently. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1388
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 20:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:the idea is great but the problem are the corner cases. In eve it is very difficult to say what something costs. Having a payout of 20% is simply a safety measure to make market manipulation difficult. If this problem would be solved, you could rise the payout to 70% by default without the scaling.
The scaling would still exclude the "alt kill" problem under IDEAL conditions (no open market) but would make market manipulation exploits easier.
We need better prices. They need to be low-end, because thats what u can buy it for in highsec anyways. I posted a solution for that above.
[/quote]
there is no solution for that. what does an abbadon cost? what does a b-type mwd cost?
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
Destiny's Call
24
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 21:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
For everything below officer-stuff it should be easy.
and for the rest it should be fairly easy to design a save low border thats worth less than the module.
Well hell:
If you are so worried about it the price of a t2-module can be taken for the ones that arent obvious.
This is nowhere a problem that cant be solved.
And it doesn't matter for the fact that my formula would be better than the current static one, even if u take just the hulls. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1388
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 21:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
so tell me how you want to solve it? you think you can't buy all abbadons in the area as an alliance and make it to a big bounty payout event once a month? Or with much easier to manipulate items. It has been done already with FW LP which uses the same system.
the only defense are low payouts. Otherwise you will just kill yourself to get rid of the bounty or make even profit from it if you do it right.
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Karrl Tian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
146
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 21:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Here's a better formula.
Player #1 "I want X player/shiptype/corpmember killed."
Player #2 "Give me money and I'll do it."
Player #1 "Okay."
Player #2 kills Player #3, gets paid by Player #1, then kills him and gets paid by Player #3.
WTF is so hard about that?  |
Marlona Sky
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
2839
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 22:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Karrl Tian wrote:Here's a better formula. Player #1 "I want X player/shiptype/corpmember killed." Player #2 "Give me money and I'll do it." Player #1 "Okay." Player #2 kills Player #3, gets paid by Player #1, then kills him and gets paid by Player #3. WTF is so hard about that?
Something that struggles to find a place in this game - trust.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 23:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Karrl Tian wrote:Here's a better formula. Player #1 "I want X player/shiptype/corpmember killed." Player #2 "Give me money and I'll do it." Player #1 "Okay." Player #2 kills Player #3, gets paid by Player #1, then kills him and gets paid by Player #3. WTF is so hard about that?
hehe.
You get a like for the twist
qfmjt-1 |
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