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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2521
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Posted - 2013.01.01 21:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
mama guru wrote:OP: I have owned a carrier for 5 years and I have never used it in combat. I have used it for capital fleet ops back in the day and for ratting but beyond that it's of little use today thanks to supers.
I've used my carrier in combat a few times, but it's generally few and far between. Probably less than 20-30 times total. The best reason to get a carrier is for carting your **** around, and the best reason to get a dread is to knock down structures faster. If you're willing to risk the supercaps.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Ponch Valdez
Carousel Boutique Rebel Alliance of New Eden
1
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Posted - 2013.01.02 02:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Carriers are like the swiss army knife of new eden, not everyone need them, but when they do <33333 |
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
21
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Posted - 2013.01.02 03:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Does the OP know you cannot generally fly carriers in high sec/empire ? |
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
78
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Posted - 2013.01.02 04:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
People have pointed out most of the really huge problems with flying carriers. The thing that's been missing, and hopefully which will help the OP make less terrible decisions is WHY carriers aren't a good choice most of the time.
The reason is this: Any fight that you can bring a carrier to, the other guys can bring things that kill carriers. You might think you are somehow power gaming by going for the biggest ship that a single person can reasonably aspire to, but eve just doesn't work like that. Anything you can do the bad guys can do, and chances are will do so with far greater elan than you.
Once upon a time, I was in a corp with some RL friends. They were stupid people. They wanted to go knock over a POS on a decent moon in Aridia. They decided they would take out all the stops and bring their carriers with them. At this point I told them I wasn't coming with them, and that they'd all die.
They didn't even make it to the POS. They got into a little fight on a gate (about 10-15BS on each side). They thought that dropping the carriers in would help matters. They did not. Everyone still died, and so did all the carriers. During this period I mocked everyone involved in corp chat, because my pre-cognative abilities are apparently strong.
So yeah... If you can do it, someone else can. It takes either exceptional intel or giant brass balls to confidently deploy just a few capitals, and even more so to just deploy one. |
Nero Pantera
Double-Down Transmission Lost
0
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Posted - 2013.01.02 04:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
everyone saying that being the solo carrier is bad clearly has never lived in a wh. the most important thing.....triage.....boosts........must out recharge 2 bhaalgorns and still use mods....and combat boosters.....sexy sexy drugs. |
Andracin
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
15
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Posted - 2013.01.02 08:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
I find my carrier to mostly be a cheaper alternative to a jump freighter that is able to hold fit ships. I have had it since 2006-ish and have dropped it in combat 2 times and taxied my stuff around low and null 100x +. If you are the only carrier pilot in your corp and you live in low-sec or null your going to be like the neighbor with the pickup truck... "hey man, you mind hauling my stuff?"...every time you move operations. If thats what your looking for go for it, but totally expect to eventually die. I know people who are willing to fly 50 jumps in a noob ship just to get in on a carrier kill. |
Esra Udan
0.0 Axis Fleet Stealth Syndicate
4
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Posted - 2013.01.02 16:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lukas Flamesword wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Denuo Secus wrote:Liang why such elitist behavior? Disappointing. It's a good set of tips for someone that knows nothing about capitals - if he can read between the lines. -Liang i do know something. but i was just asking if the forums had more. because most guides are outdated BTW: the new corp im starting in is mostly made of of never players. so im one of the top 5 guys in age.
Look as a new player in a new corp filled with new people I would check out the hydra theory. Use T1 frigates and learn/train pvp with each other first. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
428
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Posted - 2013.01.03 12:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:So look. There's nothing wrong with training for a carrier to help grow a small corp. But as a "military" asset? Forget it. It's for hauling things across several regions without trouble. And that's it.
This sums up quite good what carriers are good for, move stuff around and eventually rep pos mods/shields, personally I see it just like a ships freighter for null. For a 2B+ mark ship it brings nothing interesting to your game experience but more constraints (specially when it comes to rep stuff and you'll understand what I mean at some point), you'd have far more fun with those 2B+ filling your hangar with T1 full fitted cruisers/BC's.
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Lukas Flamesword
Hessian Public Relations Department
12
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Posted - 2013.01.04 06:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
Esra Udan wrote: Look as a new player in a new corp filled with new people I would check out the hydra theory. Use T1 frigates and learn/train pvp with each other first.
well. we do that alot. and i used to be in tribal alliance. flying around in a stealth bomber or battlecruiser (when drakes where good :( )
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6238
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Posted - 2013.01.04 15:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
I rolled an alt in May '11 and started it towards carriers. I didn't have it in one until August of 2012, and it's /still/ training carrier relevant skills.
Believe me, carriers are not a trivial skill training path as they take over a year of focused training even for a somewhat passable fleet role. I have 40M SP on my main and I have not even injected a single capital-related skill, and have no plans to do so anytime soon. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. ~~~~i am god~~~~ |
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De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
714
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Posted - 2013.01.04 20:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
I'll offer some advice from a carrier pilot:
1. A carrier (any capital ship really) is not something you can squeak by with while you finish training your skills. Train the skills, then buy the ship. And I mean train them to level 4 or 5, not 2 or 3. 2. Fighters suck in non-cap PvP - train for sentries. 3. Do NOT take Drone Control units into PvP. 4. DO take a smartbomb. 5. Carry a spare cyno ship - you never know when you'll need one, and one of your fleet mates can treade ships and light it for you. The Ibis and the Velator are great for this (especially since the hulls are free). 6. When you buy your first carrier, buy two. You WILL lose the first one (mine was lost less than 3 months after I got it) usually to some bone headed move on your part. Having the replacement on hand will make the initial loss less painful. 7. Don't attack lone Goonswarm Sabres off a station. (This is a direct corollary to #6 regarding bone headed moves). They're not as alone as they might seem.
Here's an idea of the skills i would expect an ENTRY level (armor) carrier pilot to possess. Capital Repair Systems 4 EM Armor Compensation 5 Explosive Armor Compensation 5 Kinetic Armor Compensation 5 Thermic Armor Compensation 5 Cloaking 4 Energy Management 5 Energy Pulse Weapons 1 Energy Systems Operation 5 Evasive Maneuvering 4 Hull Upgrdes 5 Jury Rigging 4 Mechanics 5 Signature Analysis 5 Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 Targeting 5 Thermodynamics (strongly recommended to 4) Capital Ships 3 Jump Drive Calibration 4 Jump Fuel Conservation 3 Carrier 4 Capital Remote Armor Reapair 4 Capital Energy Emission Systems 4 Capital Shield Emission Systems 4 Combat Drone Operation 5 Drone Durability 5 Drone Navigation 5 Drone Sharpshooting 5 Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing 4 Fighters 4 Heavy Drone Operation 5 Multitasking 4 Repair Drone Operation 5 Scout Drone Operation 5 Sentry Drone Interfacing 5 Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration 3 Amarr Drone Specialization 4 Caldari Drone Specialization 4 Gallente Drone Specialization 4 Minmatar Drone Specialization 4 Bumping, leave it alone. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2541
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote: EM Armor Compensation 5 Explosive Armor Compensation 5 Kinetic Armor Compensation 5 Thermic Armor Compensation 5 Repair Drone Operation 5 Amarr Drone Specialization 4
I'm not even entry level. :(
Quote: Capital Remote Armor Reapair 4 Capital Energy Emission Systems 4 Capital Shield Emission Systems 4 Combat Drone Operation 5
I don't think it's necessary to train energy and shield emissions unless your carrier has a bonus to them (like the Niddy/Thanny). A shield transporter on your Archon or armor transporter on your Chimera is a waste of a slot (IMO). The Energy Transfer is also probably a wasted slot on a Niddy/Thanny since neither have the fittings to waste.
-Liang
Ed: Also, did you mean to leave off Capital Repair Systems and friends? Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
522
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Also, did you mean to leave off Capital Repair Systems and friends?
Capital Repair Systems is first on the list. The rest are missing though.
Those skills are way over the top for an 'entry level' pilot. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2541
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Also, did you mean to leave off Capital Repair Systems and friends? Capital Repair Systems is first on the list. The rest are missing though. Those skills are way over the top for an 'entry level' pilot.
Dammit. Thanks.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Lukas Flamesword
Hessian Public Relations Department
18
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
i had heard about the WH carriers. how usefull are a carrier really in WH space? |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2543
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lukas Flamesword wrote:i had heard about the WH carriers. how usefull are a carrier really in WH space?
It depends on the person piloting it and the people attacking it. A carrier in a low class wormhole is a sign of either *very* permanent and skilled residents or complete idiots. It's a big and scary ship and with support will be able to chase off *most* opponents. And then there's people like me.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Lithalnas
Privateers
129
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Posted - 2013.01.05 00:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
get onto the test server my friend, i suggest you train on TQ skills like drone durability, drone navigation, armor skills, capacitor skills, spaceship command and support. Then go to Sisi test server and participate in mass tests, this nets you 2m skill points each time you do it, thats enough to speed your way to caps. Then buy a dozen carriers for a few thousand isk and fly them to CA 1. You will find people to shoot at, people to shoot at you and best of all friends who can teach you how to run a carrier right. https://www.facebook.com/RipSeanVileRatSmith shoot at blue for Vile Rat http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73406 |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
76
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Posted - 2013.01.05 11:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Also one or two carriers isnt a threat at all these days, check most killboards and you see us in small BC gangs ganking carriers without a loss.
Carriers really are over rated when used alone or in very small groups. But in a fleet set up to use them properly with pilots that know that being in a carrier is a death sentence these days they can do wonders. |
Call Rollard
Grim Determination Academy Nulli Tertius
19
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Posted - 2013.01.06 12:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
I've been playing for 8 months now. I just don't feel ready for a cap ship yet is the thing due to my Skills.
If you are considering flying a carrier/dreadnought in the future though, best thing to do is get into a very good 0.0 corporation which is in an alliance owning sov. The corporation should have some carrier/dread pilots you can talk to about owning a cap. |
Lukas Flamesword
Hessian Public Relations Department
19
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Posted - 2013.01.06 16:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
Call Rollard wrote:I've been playing for 8 months now. I just don't feel ready for a cap ship yet is the thing due to my Skills.
If you are considering flying a carrier/dreadnought in the future though, best thing to do is get into a very good 0.0 corporation which is in an alliance owning sov. The corporation should have some carrier/dread pilots you can talk to about owning a cap. that will be a larger problem for me. since i am in an important possition in my current alliance (not yet to be formed) i have donte some time in a larger null alliance (tribal alliance). |
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Grimm Griefer
M.I.M.M.S Apocalypse Now.
2
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Posted - 2013.01.06 19:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
I have an alt that is a carrier pilot with a thanny in a low sec station. It has undocked twice and hasn't done a thing. To expensive to move and I have no experience flying it. one day I hope the corp/alliance will help me shift it to null sec and I can start flying it. one day
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Lukas Flamesword
Hessian Public Relations Department
19
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Posted - 2013.01.07 17:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
so. i have bought skillbooks. done nural remap. looking into getting a deal done for the carrier itself. im ready and set for to looooong race towards getting a carrier. and later train for dreads. wish me luck |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
110
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Posted - 2013.01.07 19:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
The most important consideration in training a carrier, particularly if such training is to the exclusion of other skills, is need.
That's the need for Carriers in general and the need for a specific Carrier. At present you have a small, young and inexperienced corporation; no alliance and uncertain prospects (as far as you've indicated) and that means very little apparent need for any Carrier, let alone your specified Chimera.
That doesn't mean that Carriers are out of the question - but particularly at only four months old I would advise making it a back-burner project. There are hundreds of skills which you could train, many of which wouldn't hurt your carrier when you eventually reach it but which would (more importantly) improve your day to day performance. It may, for example, be very benificial to spend some time flying Logistics ships for a while, both to grow used to managing reps, cap...etc in the midst of a combat which you have to remain aloof from and to improve your general situational awareness.
Given the gang size you're likely to be mustering and the fleet composition you can initially expect, I would only consider using a carrier if you have support agreements with larger, more established Alliances which require you to commit Capital forces or to transport equipment to your base of operations to provide them with a starting point from which to work - far better at present to provide a backbone around which your younger corpies can build (be it Logistics to keep them in the fight longer, force multipliers such as ECM to increase their engagement envelope, Leadership, scouting or whatever else). You may wish to train for your carrier in the background, of course, but specialising in something more immediately useful to your corp has both broader application and greater longevity.
I can't remember when I acquirred my carrier but I've moved it three or four times as staging systems changed, used it once (to move stuff for corpies) and been requested to bring it to a potential combat situation once - the scale of the capital modules however meant I didn't have the fit they needed, and in any case I would have been more use to the fleet in a Guardian.
I know that the wish to be useful and the charisma of Capital class ships is incredibly seductive but think very carefully before embarking on such a long and quite niche role - there are probably more valuable roles you could be approaching both more quickly and with much broader application. |
Lukas Flamesword
Hessian Public Relations Department
19
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Posted - 2013.01.07 22:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:The most important consideration in training a carrier, particularly if such training is to the exclusion of other skills, is need.
That's the need for Carriers in general and the need for a specific Carrier. At present you have a small, young and inexperienced corporation; no alliance and uncertain prospects (as far as you've indicated) and that means very little apparent need for any Carrier, let alone your specified Chimera.
That doesn't mean that Carriers are out of the question - but particularly at only four months old I would advise making it a back-burner project. There are hundreds of skills which you could train, many of which wouldn't hurt your carrier when you eventually reach it but which would (more importantly) improve your day to day performance. It may, for example, be very benificial to spend some time flying Logistics ships for a while, both to grow used to managing reps, cap...etc in the midst of a combat which you have to remain aloof from and to improve your general situational awareness.
Given the gang size you're likely to be mustering and the fleet composition you can initially expect, I would only consider using a carrier if you have support agreements with larger, more established Alliances which require you to commit Capital forces or to transport equipment to your base of operations to provide them with a starting point from which to work - far better at present to provide a backbone around which your younger corpies can build (be it Logistics to keep them in the fight longer, force multipliers such as ECM to increase their engagement envelope, Leadership, scouting or whatever else). You may wish to train for your carrier in the background, of course, but specialising in something more immediately useful to your corp has both broader application and greater longevity.
I can't remember when I acquirred my carrier but I've moved it three or four times as staging systems changed, used it once (to move stuff for corpies) and been requested to bring it to a potential combat situation once - the scale of the capital modules however meant I didn't have the fit they needed, and in any case I would have been more use to the fleet in a Guardian.
I know that the wish to be useful and the charisma of Capital class ships is incredibly seductive but think very carefully before embarking on such a long and quite niche role - there are probably more valuable roles you could be approaching both more quickly and with much broader application. of course i will train for other stuff. because a carrier will need a large tank. i will train for that. a carrier need drones (much of that :D) so i will train that too. the ability to sit in the carrier is what will be trained last. i will have the ability to use fighters before that.
:EDIT: i might train it halfway. because then i will have training time on the test server
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Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
33
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Posted - 2013.01.08 00:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Everything i wanted to say has been said in this thread, there are many solid comments from experienced people. The only thing i can't stress enough: do not go with the chimera. Train an Archon, you can never go wrong with an Archon! |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2565
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Posted - 2013.01.08 00:28:00 -
[56] - Quote
Maybe his corp needs him to rep their wormhole POS. ;-)
-Liang
Ed: But still, the Archon is pretty baller for repping up the POS mods. Foiled again. :( Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Nao Chen
6
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Posted - 2013.01.08 11:43:00 -
[57] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote: But as a "military" asset? Forget it. It's for hauling things across several regions without trouble. And that's it.
But what Archon can carry with 3,300 m3 cargo bay? Rorqual with 40,000 m3 seems to be much better choice. |
Lukas Flamesword
Hessian Public Relations Department
20
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Posted - 2013.01.08 11:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
Nao Chen wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote: But as a "military" asset? Forget it. It's for hauling things across several regions without trouble. And that's it. But what Archon can carry with 3,300 m3 cargo bay? Rorqual with 40,000 m3 seems to be much better choice. it can carry 1.000.000 m3 of fitted ships. thats what he meant by that
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
725
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Posted - 2013.01.08 18:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
shameless thread derailage: i've never actually been to amamake, but i'm really curious: is there any one force controlling the system or is it the giant everlasting clusterfuck i imagine it to be?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2572
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Posted - 2013.01.08 19:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
Heretic Army lives there, but I wouldn't say we control it. PL swings by and lives here occasionally too, and they don't control it either. It's pretty much a giant cluster ****.
-Liang
Ed: But it's probably not the total free for all you're expecting. It certainly gets that way pretty frequently though. I've seen 4-5 way battles involving dozens of ships at top belt. :) Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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