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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
551
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Posted - 2013.01.01 07:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
The shield logi's I doubt have trouble seeing when thier reps are needed to whom but for armour logis it is WAY too close!!! The circular red lines don't differentiate well because they are so close OUR LOGS SHOW NOTHING |
Professor Clio
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
151
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Posted - 2013.01.01 07:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you're looking at anything but your broadcast window or your watchlist as a logi pilot you're doing it wrong. I'm going to go ahead and say it: "you're doing it wrong" |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
551
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 07:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Professor Clio wrote:If you're looking at anything but your broadcast window or your watchlist as a logi pilot you're doing it wrong. I'm going to go ahead and say it: "you're doing it wrong"
The watchlist & broadcast window doesn't help much to diferentiate whom is being ALPHA'd versus whom is getting split damage... in an armor fleet both shield rings turn red almost simultaneosly OUR LOGS SHOW NOTHING |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
700
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 07:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't understand. The red rings only show who is doing damage to yourself, right? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3102
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Posted - 2013.01.01 08:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Professor Clio wrote:If you're looking at anything but your broadcast window or your watchlist as a logi pilot you're doing it wrong. I'm going to go ahead and say it: "you're doing it wrong" The watchlist & broadcast window doesn't help much to diferentiate whom is being ALPHA'd versus whom is getting split damage... in an armor fleet both ships' shield rings turn red almost simultaneosly Some sort of stealth nerf to armor logi?
Or rather brought about by CCP's "improved UI experience" ... :( Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Ame Sonoda
Requiem of the Sinner
10
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Posted - 2013.01.01 09:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree completely. It used to be 3 easily distinguished straight bars that you could see clearly. Now I find if their shield/armour is bouncing up and down it's often hard to tell what is happening. It's proof if ever it were needed that the UI team don't play the game. |
Ghazu
442
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Posted - 2013.01.01 10:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Clean whatever is crusting over your eyes, yuck. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Ur235
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
86
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Posted - 2013.01.01 10:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ame Sonoda wrote:I agree completely. It used to be 3 easily distinguished straight bars that you could see clearly. Now I find if their shield/armour is bouncing up and down it's often hard to tell what is happening. It's proof if ever it were needed that the UI team don't play the game.
Lol bit harsh they probably never just antcipated such a problem, I do agree though being a Logi pilot it does make it harder to tell how well people are holding when your looking at 3 pretty small rings hmm |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
302
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 10:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
aesthetics over function New inventory: Getting better since version 1.2, but what about back and forward buttons? |
FoxBird Freir
Raven's Flight Nulli Legio
52
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Posted - 2013.01.01 10:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
UI scaling, it works ! |
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Ame Sonoda
Requiem of the Sinner
10
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Posted - 2013.01.01 10:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ur235 wrote:Lol bit harsh
Maybe but it feels a lot like the initial inventory changes: 'here's the new system, there's no option to make it like the old system, even if the old system worked better for you. Deal with it.' |
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything. Clockwork Pineapple
190
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Posted - 2013.01.01 11:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ame Sonoda wrote:Ur235 wrote:Lol bit harsh Maybe but it feels a lot like the initial inventory changes: 'here's the new system, there's no option to make it like the old system, even if the old system worked better for you. Deal with it.' You are the worst kind of person. |
Ame Sonoda
Requiem of the Sinner
10
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Posted - 2013.01.01 11:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
ihcn wrote:Ame Sonoda wrote:Ur235 wrote:Lol bit harsh Maybe but it feels a lot like the initial inventory changes: 'here's the new system, there's no option to make it like the old system, even if the old system worked better for you. Deal with it.' You are the worst kind of person.
no u |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops THE ROYAL NAVY
1077
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Posted - 2013.01.01 11:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
All I hear is whines. You'll get used to it. I've acted as armour logi in PvP relatively frequently and have no problems with the new UI, but then I spend most of my time looking at the watch list. Perhaps you should do the same. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ame Sonoda
Requiem of the Sinner
10
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Posted - 2013.01.01 11:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
for what it's worth I don't really fly logi and I have kind of got used to it. Still I find it less easy to get the info you need, quickly, when you're fighting 3 guys solo and busy managing mods, overheating and range.
and yes I have been a **** in this thread but i'm always grumpy as **** for about 2 hours after i wake up. |
Eight Two
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2013.01.01 12:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
FoxBird Freir wrote:UI scaling, it works !
This pretty much.
It's a tad annoying to switch back and forth between scales but when you have certain targets pre-locked in addition to the watchlist it's really hard to tell at times who can hold out and who needs attention asap.
Especially since wasted cycles don't affect shield logis nearly as much as armor logis. You're doing it wrong and all that
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baltec1
Bat Country
4627
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Are you playing on a two inch screen or something? |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
1140
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 14:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Are you playing on a two inch screen or something?
Or maybe you've never flown logi in a real fight. Sometimes things get - pretty hectic. I agree that the new rounded format sacrifices functionality for eye candy. Human brains take longer to process curves especially when they're close together. I'm not suggesting abandon the format but maybe adding something else to it, like flashing the icon or background of a ship that just took critical damage or something to guide your eye quickly to the right place. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1034
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 15:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
That's what your watchlist is for, mate. Working as intended. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Nicoli Voldkif
Legion of the Obsidion Star
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 16:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:baltec1 wrote:Are you playing on a two inch screen or something? Or maybe you've never flown logi in a real fight. Sometimes things get - pretty hectic. I agree that the new rounded format sacrifices functionality for eye candy. Human brains take longer to process curves especially when they're close together. I'm not suggesting abandon the format but maybe adding something else to it, like flashing the icon or background of a ship that just took critical damage or something to guide your eye quickly to the right place.
If your looking at the targeting icons you are doing it wrong as a Logi. Watchlists and Broadcasts are your friends, Watch lists covers a 10 man group just fine while broadcasts are required for anything that exceeds your lock capacity anyway. |
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Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 16:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Still doesn't mean that a smoother UI wouldn't help. Maybe an extra tall end point and different colors for each bar or something. |
Gal'o Sengen
State War Academy Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 17:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rather than three lines on top of each other, Three lines surrounding the entire thing. Top left is Shield, Top Right is Armour (with a direct flow on), and down the bottom, Hull. |
Ame Sonoda
Requiem of the Sinner
10
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Posted - 2013.01.01 17:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
watchlist is great if you're fine with being a shitlord. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
1140
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 19:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That's what your watchlist is for, mate. Working as intended.
How many people can you fit on your watch list? I mean, after the fleet scout(s), fleet anchor(s), primary and secondary FCs, expensive boosting ships, EWAR jamming ships, etc? If you're doing small gang stuff in low sec or incursions then watch lists are ok I guess. Watch lists are less than useless in real fleet battles firstly due to the limit on fleet members you can put on there, and secondly because it's laggy, and thirdly because it's yet another thing to have to keep your eyes on.
Dude seriously, if all you've ever done is flown logi in an incursion save it - you have next to no logi experience. Brodcasts require the target to actually realize he's been hit again and time for him to hit his broadcast button. Sometimes I keep people alive by keeping my "3rd" eye on rep targets I haven't unlocked yet and getting reps on him before he even has time to broadcast. Switching back and forth between targets is a STANDARD fleet tactic for screwing up logi to get past the reps. And unless you have a huge alpha-fleet, the only way you're going to get any kills at all is by screwing with the logi pilot's minds. |
baltec1
Bat Country
4628
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 19:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Broadcast window. Any logi that dorsnt use this isnt a very good logi. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
1142
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 20:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Broadcast window. Any logi that dorsnt use this isnt a very good logi.
And any logi pilot that relies exclusively on the broadcast window is a logi pilot I want in the enemy fleet. |
baltec1
Bat Country
4630
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 21:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:
And any logi pilot that relies exclusively on the broadcast window is a logi pilot I want in the enemy fleet.
That either mean you are bad logi or a bad pilot who doesn't broadcast. Our logi pilots do just fine with the current system. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
280
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 23:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
I do logi casually and ewar (not very good for either though) but I havent had any unable to tell which is needed issue. So maybe it is just your resolution is not optimal. I know if I play in windowed mode it is harder. |
Nicoli Voldkif
Legion of the Obsidion Star
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 03:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:baltec1 wrote:Broadcast window. Any logi that dorsnt use this isnt a very good logi. And any logi pilot that relies exclusively on the broadcast window is a logi pilot I want in the enemy fleet.
Sorry, for me relying on people to broadcast they are getting shot, because when I was repping 150+ man fleets, the less then 1-in-30 or so chance that one of the previous 4 targets I have locked up may be getting shot was that helpful. Usually most good Logi pilots I know try to keep active locks down to 1-3 other logis and 3-4 rep recipients. So, the larger the fleet the more and more you'll have to purely rely on broadcasts. |
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
580
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 03:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
This is obviously another conspiracy by CCP and every resident of nullsec to, once again, ruin highsec incursion communities. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD
Also, your boobs :o --áCCP Eterne, 2012.11.05 14:50 |
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Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
2017
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 04:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
While I do love the current system and how neat it was to integrate the HUD design into out locked target I do have to agree that the first iteration on SiSi was better for functionality while still being circular.
That wedge at the bottom is wasted space that would otherwise show us the speed of our ship.
The full circle of counter clock wise was simple and effective for a circular target lock.
And please for the love of god can we finally get a target variation that only has one HP bar for structures, cans and wrecks? The pre-filled armor HP bar looks like an obvious cut corner.
And what's even more annoying is that this has been a problem since the beginning because the first entities we've ever run into that utilized the "2 HP bar" format are sleepers. The Drake is a Lie |
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
369
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 04:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
ITT: Logi pilot* says logi pilots have issues, non-logi pilots say he's wrong.
GJ forums, you've broken logic again.
*I assume he's a logi pilot as he wouldn't be bitching about it otherwise Stealth OST puns and blatant lies since 2009 Jace Errata on Twitter
One day they woke me up so I could live forever It's such a shame the same will never happen to you |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3223
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 06:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gal'o Sengen wrote:Rather than three lines on top of each other, Three lines surrounding the entire thing. Top left is Shield, Top Right is Armour (with a direct flow on), and down the bottom, Hull. That was the original design I believe, but people complained that they would get confused as to which part of the bar pertained to what. Never mind that it took all of about 3 seconds to get used to it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Gal'o Sengen
State War Academy Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 06:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Gal'o Sengen wrote:Rather than three lines on top of each other, Three lines surrounding the entire thing. Top left is Shield, Top Right is Armour (with a direct flow on), and down the bottom, Hull. That was the original design I believe, but people complained that they would get confused as to which part of the bar pertained to what. Never mind that it took all of about 3 seconds to get used to it.
In that case, it wouldn't be hard to add a small box in front of the Bar itself. Blue for shields, Brown for Armour and Red for Hull. Regardless, the way i see it, it shouldn't be too hard to add the option for players to change between the classic old style Target and the new one. |
baltec1
Bat Country
4634
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 07:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jace Errata wrote:ITT: Logi pilot* says logi pilots have issues, non-logi pilots say he's wrong.
GJ forums, you've broken logic again.
*I assume he's a logi pilot as he wouldn't be bitching about it otherwise Went out with 4 armour logi the other night, only problem we had was cap related. This is only a problem if you have poor eyesight or a tiny screen. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
565
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 07:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
ihcn wrote:Ame Sonoda wrote:Ur235 wrote:Lol bit harsh Maybe but it feels a lot like the initial inventory changes: 'here's the new system, there's no option to make it like the old system, even if the old system worked better for you. Deal with it.' You are the worst kind of person.
Honest poeple are the worst kind of people in your world? You have a great future at Fox News CORP OUR LOGS SHOW NOTHING |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
565
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 08:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
I waited about a month to start this thread hoping I would get used to the new targeting system but unfortunely I have not. Has CCP ever considered hiring an industrial psychologist for HUD designs? I remember when I worked at NASA ARC they were very usefull instead of a hack sticking his finger in the air after wetting it & coding for what he thought looked aethetically appealing... OUR LOGS SHOW NOTHING |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
545
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 08:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jace Errata wrote:ITT: Logi pilot* says logi pilots have issues, non-logi pilots say he's wrong.
GJ forums, you've broken logic again.
*I assume he's a logi pilot as he wouldn't be bitching about it otherwise Went out with 4 armour logi the other night, only problem we had was cap related. This is only a problem if you have poor eyesight or a tiny screen.
Perhaps, but as with many changes CCP does it's two steps forward, one step back. Why defend their decision to take that one step back? It shouldn't be more difficult to use the new UI, regardless of "lol get a new screen" or "l2logi" nonsense. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
1143
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 10:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: This is only a problem if you have poor eyesight or a tiny screen.
As an exercise, what percentage of the population has poor eyesight? How about what percentage of computer/gaming nerds who spend 23/7 in front of computer monitors has poor eyesight?
Most definitely CCP has to take poor eyesight into account when designing its UI. |
baltec1
Bat Country
4638
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Posted - 2013.01.02 15:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:
It shouldn't be more difficult to use the new UI, regardless of "lol get a new screen" or "l2logi" nonsense.
It isn't harder to use, I acctually find it slightly easyer to tell how much damage something is taking. This is looking more and more like you people rebelling over change rather than there being a real problem. |
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Nicoli Voldkif
Legion of the Obsidion Star
3
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Posted - 2013.01.02 16:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Perhaps, but as with many changes CCP does it's two steps forward, one step back. Why defend their decision to take that one step back? It shouldn't be more difficult to use the new UI, regardless of "lol get a new screen" or "l2logi" nonsense.
It isn't more difficult to use because you don't use that when you are running logistics. Now if they went to some sort of god awful single bar in the watch list so you couldn't tell which ships were into armor then I could agree that it would be a severe problem for armor logis in small gangs. But as it is its not one step back at all, its a minor change that for the reason complained about is absolutely no issue.
The arguments against this rests on the fact that its a problem when your repping over the watch list limit, but unfortunately you have well run out of target locks on your logistics ship if that is the case as well requiring you to rely on the broadcast window for who need reps. So basically you should be either watching you watch list as the red blinking for them taking damage will drawl your attention better, or when over that limit be watching the broadcast window since more and likely you won't be locked on the ship taking damage anyway. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 17:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:All I hear is whines. You'll get used to it. I've acted as armour logi in PvP relatively frequently and have no problems with the new UI, but then I spend most of my time looking at the watch list. Perhaps you should do the same.
Right im sure as a HQ incursion Logi you have 40 people on your watch list...... O wait im sure your not and incursion HQ logi as your comment is moronic. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
546
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 19:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Let me get you all in on a little secret: there's more types of PVP than zerg fleets and in smaller engagements where you don't go "lets hope our 79 logis catch him in time and oh well if he dies, we got 300 more BS anyway", like the vast majority of you folks do (if you can call that pvp, I'd call it "doing exactly as you're told like a good lemming"). The type of actual pvp where RR is a tiny tad different and where you actually have to juggle your reps while paying attention to the fight as it unfolds, rather than applying brute force and hope the 400 man zerg on the other side didn't all hit F1 at the same time, simply because you don't have many logis and can't rely on sheer numbers.
In that sort of pvp, where you actually need a few braincells, being able to read the the HP bars quickly and easily without having to fully focus on it means you actually get to be a real RR rather than just "press buttan". It means you can keep an eye on the fight as a whole while being an active part of it and watch the HP bars from your peripheral, easily and without issues. Those types of players would be quite hampered by a UI that forces you to fully focus your attention to be able to figure out wtf is going, lets just say that the 1% aren't happy with the current situation and that the 99% (ie, most of you) lack the brainpower to see the difference.
Let the clown replies commence. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Ragnar STS
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
54
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 21:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
This really is pretty silly. We've had no problems figuring out what is going on after a target is locked. And as far as the ridiculous argument a couple responses in that the watchlist etc etc...all I can say is wow. Sort out the fluff from your broadcasts. Learn to pilot your ship manually instead of following align/warp broadcasts. I'd also wager that if you actually use voice communications...half your fleet is yakking away about how they are being primaried and they need reps now or they're going down.
Unless it is the Primary/Backup FC, Primary/Alternate Scout, booster, or the 2 or 3 logi buddies...if they talk about reps on voice...I go out of my way to not lock them.
If they chat in fleet about reps...they've clearly had enough time to think about it but still can't manage to use the broadcast button...they are just too $@# stupid to keep with the fleet. I avoid repping them too.
If they broadcast 12x for the reps...and are already clearly getting them and just freaking out for no reason...after a few warnings in chat they get unlocked too.
Sort your broadcasts. Sort your overviews. Broadcast or die. That simple. Works for all gangs from 20 up to 270.
Now if you find yourself repping off-fleet members, then I guess you'll just have to turn the effects back on and take a peek around to see who looks like the christmas tree....and rep them. If you fleet is getting attacked by a squad of bombers, it is usually pretty easy to spin the camera around a bit and quickly target the guys that the bombs are floating toward. If it is a shield fleet...that first rep lands before the bomb even goes off, if armor, it is pretty much just in time.
It is ok to keep them in low to medium armor. Nothing makes them change targets faster than a full armor ship...let it fall a bit. Hold off on a rep or two, then put them back on, then pull them off. Play with them. Stop freaking out about a couple pixels being hard to see. Nobody wants a logi pilot that is freaking out.
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