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Ovaron
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Posted - 2005.06.11 21:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ovaron on 11/06/2005 21:43:13 Petition for an advanced mass production skill
please comment if your agree or make additional suggestions
We think it is time for an 'Advanced Mass Production Skill'.
Since the days of beta there was never the possibility to run more then 6 factory slots with one character (1 standard + 5 for Mass Production on lvl 5). This has been enough for most people, and of course for most corporations several producers were necessary with that. However the need for the ability to run multiple factory slots dramatically increased over time. The addition of tech 2 gives the need for far more slots. T2 needs the T1 items, T2 needs T2 components, which again need to be manufactured. Additionally T2 has rather long buildtimes which fills slots over a long time.
Prior to the introduction of T2 one could run the whole production tree of EVE with a relative ease. It was possible to run a small tradepost alone or with only two persons. With build times of only minutes for modules, and even build times for BS of no more then 4 hours one had plenty of room for a moderate product portfolio.
Now in the age of T2 the building times range from 30 minutes of some small modules up to 36 hours for cruisers. Average build times are around 2h or a bit more approximately. Which essentially means i one wants to offer a T2 product in reasonable amounts and reliably, then one has to produce T2 around the clock.
With the introduction of T2 component manufacturing its now possible to manufacture these too. These again need several factory slots for production.
Overall T2 production needs a massive amount of factory slots with all this. Not that much flexibility is left. A T2 producers fills hiw 6 slots with t1 items he need for T2 production, some component manufacturing, and the T2 BPs themselves. Basically he does that 24/7, just keeps the slots running. That is by itself kind of boring business anyway. Additionally this profession is one of the most skill intensive ones. Excellent Production, Industry and Science skills are needed. And yet 6 slots are all a producer can work with. Most active T2 producers dont just produce with one Character, but have secondary Accounts, or Alts which are skilled for that too. But to be honest, do 2ndary Accounts or Alts have to be solution for everything? Should not a Character that is highly skilled in production, who has invested multiple millions of SP into that be able to run more then a 6 slots?
We do think so. For advanced characters, especially T2 producers there should be the option to do their job even better. They should have the option to run more factory slots. A solution would be an Advanced Mass Production skill that gives again 1 factory slot per level. It should be a high rank skill (maybe 8), so its equal to a specialisation skill for a PVPer.
So a fully skilled Producer would be able to run a whole of 12 factory slots. For a T2 producer that sometimes will cut it close still, however it certainly should be an appropriate number for this age.
Finally here a detailed Skill suggestion:
'Advanced Mass Production'
Primary Attriute : Intelligence Secondary Attribute : Memory Skill Description : Advanced factory use, grants the ability to run 1 additional factory per skill level. Rank : 8 Skills Requirements : Industry 5 , Mass Production 5 , Science 5 , Mechanic 5 , Production Effency 5
please comment if your agree or make additional suggestions
Ingame Sales Page : http://www.ii-inc.org/xtech
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dimensionZ
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Posted - 2005.06.11 21:39:00 -
[2]
i like the idea but, as stated multiple times, "sign in" threads DOESN'T HELP, annoy mods/devs more than anything else.
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2005.06.11 21:59:00 -
[3]
Originally by: dimensionZ i like the idea but, as stated multiple times, "sign in" threads DOESN'T HELP, annoy mods/devs more than anything else.
Ok, but neither does doing NOTHING. I'm for this! ----------------------------------------------- CANADIAN |
Seradhin
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Posted - 2005.06.11 22:06:00 -
[4]
Sounds like a reasonable suggestion to me, although I'm not a producer myself.
However isn't Mechanic 5 an odd prerequisite for a production skill?
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dimensionZ
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Posted - 2005.06.11 22:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: jbob2000
Originally by: dimensionZ i like the idea but, as stated multiple times, "sign in" threads DOESN'T HELP, annoy mods/devs more than anything else.
Ok, but neither does doing NOTHING. I'm for this!
Make a thread, gather ideas. Devs read forums you know, even if they dont reply. Just dont start a "sign here plz" thread.
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Johnathan Roark
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Posted - 2005.06.11 22:54:00 -
[6]
I would love to see more advanced industrial skills. Maybe even some skills to reduce build cost even more and to lower production time.
In order to be a builder in eve, it takes like maybe 3 months to train every skill to the max. Combat has gotten better skills, refiners have gotten better skills, trade has gotten skills, its time for the builder to receive more advanced skills.
I would like to see the skill above added along with two others.
Production Cost manager - Skill at reducing the build cost.
Production Time Manager - Skill at reducing the build time.
These will also help the tech 2 market where you have extremely long build times. ------------------------------------- Quantum Industries
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Shocknawe
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Posted - 2005.06.11 23:10:00 -
[7]
Sounds reasonable, however i think the rank 8 is a bit steep.
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Elenia Kheynes
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Posted - 2005.06.12 00:01:00 -
[8]
I like the idea. However current system permits to have more people involved in production I guess ^^
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
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Ardor
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Posted - 2005.06.12 00:45:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ardor on 12/06/2005 00:46:22 I am a producer with tons of BPOs. Of course I would like to be able to run more factory slots. Much more I need more market orders. Giving my vote would be very selfish, though.
Since the introduction of the new trade skills I am forced to concentrate on more profitable production lines aka battleships and HAC. I have had 400-500 orders in the past. Now I dont 'waste' my time with executioners and tormentors anymore. This opens the market for new producers which isnt a bad thing imho. Give new pilots a chance and buy the t1 items you need for your t2 production from others.
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Maxine Stirner
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Posted - 2005.06.12 03:29:00 -
[10]
As a producer, the handful of ships my BPOs are able to crank out per day per factory is more than sufficient.
Tens of thousands of rounds of ammo per day? Sufficient.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say there is probably excess industrial capacity given the current market "hubbing" tendencies. Do I own a slot in Yulai? Yes. Do I make a profit off of it? Some days. Do I own any techII BPOs? Nope.
Too much freedom and margins of operation for individuals is a bad thing.
But thanks for reminding me that I have some BPO ME research to attend.
Locking Times & Evil Asteroids |
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Phoenix Pryde
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Posted - 2005.06.12 21:22:00 -
[11]
Aye, a few more factory slots surely would be nice for a producer.
And as mentioned here, about every profession by now got some specialisation skills, only producers haven't gotten any new ones
XTECH t2 sales: www.ii-inc.org/xtech |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.06.12 21:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Maxine Stirner As a producer, the handful of ships my BPOs are able to crank out per day per factory is more than sufficient.
Tens of thousands of rounds of ammo per day? Sufficient.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say there is probably excess industrial capacity given the current market "hubbing" tendencies. Do I own a slot in Yulai? Yes. Do I make a profit off of it? Some days. Do I own any techII BPOs? Nope.
Too much freedom and margins of operation for individuals is a bad thing.
But thanks for reminding me that I have some BPO ME research to attend.
I used to manufacture T2 components--it was hell. I always lagged behind in production. Even with 5 slots cranking 24/7. -- The best description of alliances, ever:
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Leviathanas
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:33:00 -
[13]
signed
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Alinea
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:38:00 -
[14]
we need them really, signed Alinea
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Elorian Domei
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:47:00 -
[15]
Why only one extra slot per skill level for an advanced skill?
Could do the same as Trade where you get progressivly more orders the more advanced your learning gets. So I would rather see a new advanced mass production that gave 2 extra slots per level.
-= The leauge of extraordinary carebears =- |
Blydchyld
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Posted - 2005.06.13 07:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Blydchyld on 13/06/2005 07:31:09 correct me if i am incorrect.
What you are suggesting is this,
Give all the big time producers many more fac slots so we can drive the smaller guys and corps out of the trade business?
Yarrrr, So comes tha time of the industrial pie-rats.
I personaly dont like the idea.
**Please note: My posts are my own thoughts not those of my corp and alliance**
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I want to be a fish. |
Kunming
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Posted - 2005.06.13 09:57:00 -
[17]
The production profession definetly needs specialisation skill, just like gunnery and mining skills got them!
Specialisation skills for ammo, ship, module, etc production, with each lvl reducing cost by 4% and another skill that reduces production duration by some %. This can be in stages just like gunnery, f.ex. Industry 5, Prod eff 5 -> small ammo production 4 -> medium ammo production 4 -> large ammo...
Tbh I dont wanna see 1 person hoarding tons of factory slots, but rather multiple production specialists in one corp to concentrate on their own field. So +5 more slots would be enough imo.
Intercepting since BETA |
Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.13 10:07:00 -
[18]
Aren't industry corps allready making a killing ?
hell do you really need more isk... let the smaller production corps stand a chance ffs.
Typherin Care Negotitation Expert level 5
Originally by: Eris Discordia *gives Typherin some loving*
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Sable Moran
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Posted - 2005.06.13 14:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Typherin laidai let the smaller production corps stand a chance ffs.
Even us (or at least me) small industrialists would wellcome a factory slot or three more. Several times I haven't been able to put up my full product range because of lack of factory slots. That's poor customer service.
So I say yes to this skill. Rank 8 sounds good, although I'm not sure if 6 skills at level 5 as prerequisites is sensible maybe 3 or maximum 4 would be ok. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.06.13 14:22:00 -
[20]
I hate to be the person to say it, but six factory slots is enough. Sure, it creates a big pain in the arse for solo-producers, but Eve is not a solo-player game.
Surely someone in XETIC should be able to organise a NAGA-esque production tree, with some people concentrating on some items, and selling within the corp/alliance for a discount?
ex P-TMC
_________________________________ If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
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Neslo
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Posted - 2005.06.13 15:31:00 -
[21]
If there were only such a place for ideas that aren't in game right now. Perhaps a forum that the mods could make that people could post ideas for items they would like to see in game...
oh wait... From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.06.13 15:33:00 -
[22]
remote operation of factorys would be usefull, i hate having to take a round trip of 120 jumps just so i can start some factorys off... ok i could produce where i am but dont particulary fancy exporting my BPO's 60odd jumps through 0.0 space.
Death to the Galante |
Phoenix Pryde
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Posted - 2005.06.14 12:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 I hate to be the person to say it, but six factory slots is enough. Sure, it creates a big pain in the arse for solo-producers, but Eve is not a solo-player game.
Surely someone in XETIC should be able to organise a NAGA-esque production tree, with some people concentrating on some items, and selling within the corp/alliance for a discount?
The reason why i think that 6 slots are not enough long term is that over time the need for slots and manufacturing only ever increased. There are more T1 items then there once were, there is T2, and there is now component manufacturing. Besides its not at all about solo producers ... i doubt there are many corps that can cope with a single producer for only their t1 (ships, ammu, etc..). Just taking my corp as example. Even back before there was any T2 we had 3 or 4 producers, and we mostly only produced for our own corp .. which isnt a big one.
Overall in Eve i dont think that there are many more producers then there once were. Production business is not the most thrilling, and most find it rather boring. As mentioned, many producers solve the problem by having multiple production characters themselves. I dont think thats a viable solution.
Next to that manufacturing/production has not yet gotten any specialisation skills.
And a skill like this suggested one definitely would be highly specialised. The suggested required lvl 5 skills make up a few million SP. Thats just like the T2 gunnery skills. I d argue that if a Fighter is now able to focus more oon his fighting skill, and can shoot better (so to say), then its just fair to cater something equally usefull to the producers.
P.S.: uummm, and what exactly would that have to do with xetic? I doubt there are many specialised producers who would mind such adv. manufacturing skills. I d dare to bet that some NAGA ppl who likely have their production slots just as filled wouldnt mind either ;)
XTECH t2 sales: www.ii-inc.org/xtech |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.06.14 15:19:00 -
[24]
And what next, more Labs?
Personally, I don;t mind this, but the extra 5 should be all we ever get. We should not ever get away from needing to interact with other people.
increase the factories in each station by like 20, and add it.
As for the pre reqs, you don;t really need science, Mechanic, but the rest is fine.
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