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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
305
|
Posted - 2013.01.06 21:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Probably this is not the game for you. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 02:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mahduk wrote:Hi,
I've always heard EvE is mainly a pvp game so i thought i must give pvp a go at some point.. I have done that now and i must say i'm really disappointed. Solo PvP is extremely boring, most of the time to spend warping around from safespot to gate and back while looking for targets. Takes hours and then the actual fight lasts about a minitue and there is very little you can do apart from switching on all guns and setting orbit to optimal range. I definitely don't see the point in wasting all that time for a few seconds of pvp time. Then, i tried RvB to get some idea of fleet pvp. This might be intersting to the commanding FC, but you as an individual are just a pawn and once you get primaried that's it, not much you can do.
So i'm really failing to see how the PvP in EvE got this reputation. I hate grinding missions but at least you're making progress, warping between safespots for hours is just a complete waste of time. Or am i'm missing something here?
Good Mahduk;
You are right, it is boring. Wandering around looking for fights (or even worse, that tedious sphereical probe-scanning system) is amazingly dull. I play the harmonica most the time I am logged into eve (or read Evilyn Waugh). If you join FW and go and sit and plex in Siseide at peak times it is just tolerable. Somebody attacks you every 10 minutes or so and you click the button to set your distance and the button for the guns.
To make PvP enjoyable you need a good book for all the down time.
If they really want to improve the game they could make dscan automatic and it could sound a beep when someone was detected, or a least let it beep when someone comes on grid. Then I wouldn't have to sit where I can see the monitor.
your humble servent SeaSaw |
Thomas Gore
Black Dawn Rising
167
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 08:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
You have misunderstood. EVE PvP is not about actual combat between ships. It's everything that happens before and after it. Almost every battle is decided before the first shot is fired. That's just how it goes.
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
146
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 09:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mahduk wrote:Hi,
I've always heard EvE is mainly a pvp game so i thought i must give pvp a go at some point.. I have done that now and i must say i'm really disappointed. Solo PvP is extremely boring, most of the time to spend warping around from safespot to gate and back while looking for targets. Takes hours and then the actual fight lasts about a minitue and there is very little you can do apart from switching on all guns and setting orbit to optimal range. I definitely don't see the point in wasting all that time for a few seconds of pvp time. Then, i tried RvB to get some idea of fleet pvp. This might be intersting to the commanding FC, but you as an individual are just a pawn and once you get primaried that's it, not much you can do.
So i'm really failing to see how the PvP in EvE got this reputation. I hate grinding missions but at least you're making progress, warping between safespots for hours is just a complete waste of time. Or am i'm missing something here?
It felt the same for me for ages.
I used to find it so difficult to find a fight but then realized - I was just being too cautious and picky about targets + didn't really know how to find them efficiently. In many fights I would gtfo thinking I had no chance of winning when I should have stayed. (This is still something I do too often)
Now it is different - it seems easy to find some pew. There are a few quiet patches but that's when you fit ships etc...
Lowsec seems busier now which has helped a bit - but the biggest difference in finding fights is my perception/approach to pvp. Find someone who will fc you in a 3-5 min gang who is not afraid of taking on the odds. Use the time to learning how to counter different ships.
I don't think it is boring killing a bunch of pirates in their 'bigger ships' with a few hookbills. That is where the real fun is - finding something big and expensive then killing it with something cheap and small. I was trying it for ages with no success - now after lots of playing with which fits work for me and learning - now I do ok at pvp even against much bigger odds sometimes.
In my experience - the bigger the ships get and the bigger the fleet gets - the more boring the fleet gets. Many might not agree but small fast fleets are just my preference.
If the pvp you tried was boring with too much downtime/waiting - try and get into some fleets with different FC's. Some are fun to fly with. There are others where you can't hit the quit fleet button fast enough. Don't put up with ragers/abusive fc's. They just want someone else to blame and forget what it was like when they were learning.
A good FC is everything when you are learning pvp.
Eve pvp is the only game where I actually can panic or feel excitement while playing. No other game I can remember has actually given an adrenalin rush while pewing before. - but eve has.
+ as others have said - If you are in safe spots then you are wasting your time. Lots of fights happen off planets, sun and fw plexes - no one is gonna bother scanning you out in a safe unless you undock something silly and make it worthwhile to find you.
Damn I typed a lot..... I'll stop now. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
252
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 18:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
BM is permanently stuck in the past when he was once sort of relevant. Poor guy, all the OGB, dual boxing, no risk pvp got a bit boring for him I suppose.
Garr Earthbender wrote:So much has changed hasn't it Messenger?
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
866
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 19:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Wow! I am impressed. Some dood posts to complain about, or at least state his dislike of, some element of eve that he appears to have hardly ever engaged in ... and we all turn it into a thread. Whatever happened to "WOW is thataway"? We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
933
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 19:35:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mag's wrote:So you're complaining about solo PvP, in an MMO designed to reward group play? Hmmm.
To be fair, as a general rule EVE doesn't exactly reward group play. Some gameplay requires a group, and pays more because of it, but it doesn't reward grouping for those things where groups are not required. As such, I feel EVE actually punishes grouping.
Good example is current FW plex mechanics. In many/most other MMOs, the more people gather around the "flag", the faster it caps. Simple logic being, you risk more troops by doing it, and gathering in one place. Thus, your reward is that the node flips faster when you do it with more people. In EVE, not only does the plex not cap faster, but the reward for doing it gets split between the participants, rather than each participant receiving the same LP in group as he would have received solo. As such, there's no incentive and no reward for grouping there. In fact, there's strong incentive NOT to group and do things together.
Not to mention that grouping as a whole is a bit counter-intuitive in EVE. First you are told not to trust anyone, and then you're expected to group with (initially) total strangers, thus opening yourself up to all kinds of potential grief. Hence the heavy vetting process of most corps in EVE, and general reluctance to fleet up with random people. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
366
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 19:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mahduk wrote:Hi,
I've always heard EvE is mainly a pvp game so i thought i must give pvp a go at some point.. I have done that now and i must say i'm really disappointed. Solo PvP is extremely boring, most of the time to spend warping around from safespot to gate and back while looking for targets. Takes hours and then the actual fight lasts about a minitue and there is very little you can do apart from switching on all guns and setting orbit to optimal range. I definitely don't see the point in wasting all that time for a few seconds of pvp time. Then, i tried RvB to get some idea of fleet pvp. This might be intersting to the commanding FC, but you as an individual are just a pawn and once you get primaried that's it, not much you can do.
So i'm really failing to see how the PvP in EvE got this reputation. I hate grinding missions but at least you're making progress, warping between safespots for hours is just a complete waste of time. Or am i'm missing something here?
Welcome to EVE.. You are missing the EVE of a few years ago, a magical fairy tale land, where there were targets in space every once in awhile, that amazingly enough wanted to fight you with out bringing all 50 of their best friends. It was still few and far between, kinda like pink unicorns, but they were out there regardless. It always took 5 hours to find the 30 second fight though, so no changes there.. |
TomyLobo
U2EZ
107
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 20:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
EvE is a sand box so it's quite different from your casual MMO. If you want a game solely based on PVP then go play Heroes of Newerth or League of Legends. You'll get all the PvP you could ever ask for without even trying. Moreover, what I've noticed in this thread is that people have their own definitions of fun PVP. Maybe you should try out different stuff and see what works out for you. I find it to be fun when I pick on helpless people or outsmart those that think they are prepared. Go figure... |
Patch Gatsby
LightningStrikesTwice Elemental Tide
11
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 22:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
PvP is very different in different places. Big blob sov wars in null, gate camping in low sec pipes, high sec war decing are all types of PvP. They are each very different. If you want to get fights easily without too much hassle, join RvB. That is one place where if you do wait an hour, you do so knowing a fight will come. They even have a solo system. I have no desire to fight in a 500 man fleet, but I have a great time in 10-20 man fleets or breaking gate camps in low sec. At the end of the day, Eve is the most realistic MMO there is in terms of PvP. Real enemies don't come to fight you when you want them to, where you want them to, in the numbers and strength that you want them to. Real warriors hunt their enemies for days or weeks, only to be ambushed and killed on the way home. There are tons of games out there that will hand you fights, thankfully this isn't one of them. |
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galenwade
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
138
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 05:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Mahduk wrote:Hi,
Then, i tried RvB to get some idea of fleet pvp.
I would suggest rejoining and playing in Nomma, T1 Frig FFA system i find most fleets very boring .
Some of the fights in there are ... interesting .
But apart from that i agree with those saying to join FW , target rich environments are great . Engage Everything that you have even a remote chance of winning , it is more fun that way . |
Garr Earthbender
Justified Chaos
112
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 05:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
PVP is VERY BORING -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. -Paper |
Dan Carter Murray
359
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 05:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
make better vids. hard to see anything. also if you click left and right mb together and move up or down it smooths the zoom.
but yes pvp sucks in EVE mostly. THIS IS GOLD FLEET BROTHER. WE DON'T NEED NO ******* THRASHERS/SFIs/CANES. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
208
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 06:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mahduk wrote:That may well be so, but this isn't very appealing to me. Why isn't there chess with spaceships. Now that is a thought!!! :)
Chess is a balanced game where 2 parties starts on even terms. EVE is a MMO and rarely is any given encounter even close to balanced and 2 parties? ... You can start a fight and have someone else show up to finish it - then finish you.
In general, as others have said, the game is about teams - not soloing. If you try it soloing, odds are you'll run across players with far more experience and knowledge about how to beat you and unless you ask, you probably won't even know what you did wrong (or they did right) that cost you the fight.
In a team situation the game takes on other dynamics. |
psycho freak
Snuff Box
229
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 09:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
Op
there are many diffrant ways to kill some are crap some are funny some are relaxing
many years ago in o.o i used to be involved in all kinds fleets in the end found them boring then i started triple boxing liveing in enemys sov space wad good laugh at times but alot tacticle and waiting games today i still join fleets and hdrops with corp and i still find it boring
for relaxeing i like gate camping
for lulz i used to love empire ganking nothing made me lol so much as watching afk pod auto pilot past its own wreck i even started poping empty haulers for lulz and used to lol at poping barges with few m8s in destroyers funny as hell
solo pvp can be a rush depends ow much you have on the line tho my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k
nop cant find it |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
34
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 09:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Quote:In my experience - the bigger the ships get and the bigger the fleet gets - the more boring the fleet gets. Many might not agree but small fast fleets are just my preference.
Agreeing 100% |
jjohnpaul xvii
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
79
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 16:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Overall pvp in EVE is not so good to be honest. 1v1 is boring.
Eurgh. Although you are of course entitled to your opinion. It is a very stoopid one Daniel.
OP and others: PvP in EVE is AMAZING you just have to work at it much harder than other games. If your not prepared to put some effort in to PVP, you are never going to like it, or EVE.
- Take the agony or eve university classes (google them) - Read Forums (just maybe not these forums!) - Google and download ''bringing solo back'' and watch listen to anything posted by Kil2 and Kovorix. - Join as good a corporation as you can get yourself in to. When you outgrow it, join another and continue to stretch yourself. - Learn to read Kill mails > look at the top 10 pilots on Battleclinic, see what they are losing (often cheap dessies or frigates) and take ideas from their fits - Think about your losses and your wins. Learn from them. - Read this front to back > http://www.evealtruist.com/ - Join RvB and go blow 100 frigates - Join FW and roam - Profit?
or.....
WOW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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fingie
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 17:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
This guy (Abbadon21) sells an elite pvp course, for real money. His kb isn't that bad either.
Check out this movie saved by twitch:
http://www.twitch.tv/abbadon21/b/334576511
If I recall correctly, he actually has *two* fights in four and a half hours, the rest of the time is spent jumping all over the map.
Now, personally, I have found frig pvp to be quite interesting, even though I still lose more than I win (with my main). But I can definitely understand why the OP thinks this way. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
347
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 17:52:00 -
[49] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:BM is permanently stuck in the past when he was once sort of relevant. Poor guy, all the OGB, dual boxing, no risk pvp got a bit boring for him I suppose. Garr Earthbender wrote:So much has changed hasn't it Messenger?
nothing has changed |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
398
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 18:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:agreed, EVE pvp is really boring. Mostly it is just farming clueless people.
Sometimes you may get fun moments in PVP but that happens rarely, too rarely to see all that effort for it. That is a completely self made hell... You don't have to "Farm" clueless people If you want excitement take a ship out.. find a fight you think you have a 20-30% chance of winning tops... and go for it. when PERVS were in caldari militia we counted that if gallente brings 5x more players we will get even fight with same size ships
Take a risk.
This isn't high sec griefing.
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jjohnpaul xvii
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
80
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 18:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Mahduk wrote:That may well be so, but this isn't very appealing to me. Why isn't there chess with spaceships. Now that is a thought!!! :) Chess is a balanced game where 2 parties starts on even terms. EVE is a MMO and rarely is any given encounter even close to balanced and 2 parties? ... You can start a fight and have someone else show up to finish it - then finish you. In general, as others have said, the game is about teams - not soloing. If you try it soloing, odds are you'll run across players with far more experience and knowledge about how to beat you and unless you ask, you probably won't even know what you did wrong (or they did right) that cost you the fight. In a team situation the game takes on other dynamics.
Agree 100% that you need to know what you did wrong when you lose (everyone loses a lot of the time).
Disagree 100% that PVP is not like space chess. Its very much like like space chess. You need to understand your own peices capability, understand other peices capability, know likely moves, know your opponent, understand baiting, know you cant/wont always win, dont expect to be a grand master overnight, know you will likely lose against a better opponent but take something from the experience (even if its just 1 bit of tritanium and an Ibis), understand countering, understand concealment, learn not too be predictable, to think a few steps ahead......
Chess is far more than the sum of its parts and so is PVP in EVE.
I dont want to sound too ''grasshopper'' on all this (im a nub), but give it every chance and immerse yourself in PVP basics and the rewards are phenomenal. |
jjohnpaul xvii
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
80
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 18:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Too many posts i admit on this subject but i'm reasonably passionate about it and i am GENUINELY saddened that so many people (probably newer players on the whole) are not enjoying PVP.
CCP please take notice. These peeps are the future.........
What about seriously backing Agony/Eve uni/other PVP course providers? |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
347
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 20:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:agreed, EVE pvp is really boring. Mostly it is just farming clueless people.
Sometimes you may get fun moments in PVP but that happens rarely, too rarely to see all that effort for it. That is a completely self made hell... You don't have to "Farm" clueless people If you want excitement take a ship out.. find a fight you think you have a 20-30% chance of winning tops... and go for it. when PERVS were in caldari militia we counted that if gallente brings 5x more players we will get even fight with same size ships Take a risk. This isn't high sec griefing.
it is not about taking risk, it is about that 90% players do not know how to pvp, they do get some basic knowledge and fits from forums and know some tactics , but they do not really know how to pvp.
So it ends up to situation where you should engage 10x people who are remoterepping each others so much that you can not break their tanks. It is not PVP really it is just tank testing.
|
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
367
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 20:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
jjohnpaul xvii wrote:Too many posts i admit on this subject but i'm reasonably passionate about it and i am saddened that people (probably newer players on the whole) appear not to be enjoying EVE PVP??????
CCP please take notice. New peeps are the future.........
What about seriously backing Agony/Eve uni/other PVP course providers? Free accounts/Plex/ships/isk? Bring them semi in-house if they will do it?
Unfortunately CCP thinks only about how many Subs they can get vs creating a quality PVP environment. This means if you aren't into being the 15th or 100th guy on a single KM then EVE is no longer for you.
There has always been a balance of solo,small gang and blob fighting, but every change CCP has made in the last 2 years between null sec & low sec PVP, hell even high sec now has revolved around one type of fighting and that's bring all your friends.
Bring all your friends = more subs.. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
47
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 20:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
caldari have lots of german friends in evoke errrr time for a caldari blob? |
kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
176
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 00:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:The ranting about minnies part. O hush Dan, Amarr has exactly the same issues as minmatar has. You guys blob as well, you have people who wont go anywhere without their boost as well. We aren't all that different. Although I personally commend you on your playingstyle (except the godawfull smack and cynthia) not your entire militia is like that.
The reason floss and aset happened that way is because you were just to unfriendly. Being nice works you know. I think fweddit are great frienemies,. So stop being cunts 24/7. |
Kaiirii
Mong's Marauders Spaceships in Space
15
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Posted - 2013.01.14 18:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
Please lock the thread.
I am offended by all the bears moaning. |
Jim Roebuck
Flaming Cow Industries
53
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 14:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mahduk wrote:Hi, So i'm really failing to see how the PvP in EvE got this reputation. I hate grinding missions but at least you're making progress, warping between safespots for hours is just a complete waste of time. Or am i'm missing something here?
You obviously never seen two big alliances fight it out in fleets of 200-500, with FC's screaming 'cyno/bridge jump, primary this, secondary that, alpha this, point that, etc'.
At the end of the day gudfites(TM) are to be had. "Black shadows hanging over his shoulders Black mark up against your name Your green eyes couldn't get any colder There's red poison flowing through your veins..." AC/DC, Evil Walks |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
433
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 14:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jim Roebuck wrote:Mahduk wrote:Hi, So i'm really failing to see how the PvP in EvE got this reputation. I hate grinding missions but at least you're making progress, warping between safespots for hours is just a complete waste of time. Or am i'm missing something here?
You obviously never seen two big alliances fight it out in fleets of 200-500, with FC's screaming 'cyno/bridge jump, primary this, secondary that, alpha this, point that, etc'. At the end of the day gudfites(TM) are to be had.
Sovbabyblobs are considered exciting now?
|
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 17:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mahduk wrote:Thanks for the comments. @Rynnik: I figured out myself most of what you wrote and can confirm it but none of it does really tingle me much. I guess I have to find my own way, after all EvE is supposed to be a sandbox....
There is a bit more to the actual pvp fights than what you indicate. But you correctly identify the problem in that eve requires you to spend allot of boring roaming around looking for a fight. Its the long delays between the fights that makes eve boring not the actual fights.
Rynnik accurately points out that some of the people like the idea of the hunt. Eve pvp is indeed best described as hunting. You sit there or roam around for hours for the opportunity to shoot a deer or turkey.
Some people like that, others like you and myself, think that sounds horribly boring. CCP doesn't seem to understand that there are allot of people, like you and I, who would love it if they would create some mechanics where you get frequent quality pvp fights. So instead they make all of the pvp in eve fit that hunting analogy.
The other things he describes may all be true and people may like those other aspects of eve. But the bottom line is they will realize sooner or later that in eve, the pvp where your ship fittings and such matter, is so rare that they will at best be able to get 1 or 2 such fights per 2 hours of roaming around. That is the case even if they join something like faction war.
If 1-2 decent pvp fights per 2 hours of play is enough for you eve can provide that. If its not then eve is not for you and now that ccp is moving on from faction war I don't see that changing in the near future. Someday I hope ccp will make some part of this sandbox conducive to frequent quality pvp but that does not seem to be something they care about. |
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