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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
385
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:49:00 -
[121] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:
So basically you are complaining that FW now is more suited to allow lower skilled players the ability to pvp and be able to fund themselves while doing so?
Or are you complaining that old bitter vets can't get the shiney fleet fights of old and you are seeing your time as being wasted in your training and you have too much isk to know what to do with?
The issues you raise around the need for competant FC and fleet doctrines are really just a sign that the player base has changed and the majority of them are of lower SP/experience so in this respect the FW changes have done exactly what was intented - a revamp of the system to get more ppl into FW. Why complain about his?
As the playerbase matures with FW you will once again see larger fleets and better doctrines and FC apear. If the new itteration of FW is so unpalatable to you then i feel as if you may have changed your preferences and probably need to look elsewhere to get the type of action you require (npc null alliance maybe vOv )
It's a sign of dumbing down the game to be WoW PVP centric. I dunno how anyone can see that as good.
I think it's great that CCP has done the ship rebalances and I wish they had done them a bit sooner when our corp was at it's peak, because we really struggled with getting new guys into ships they could be effective in.
The problem is you don't need to make 200 mil hour running plexes to fly T1 frigs & dessies. Your argument about shiney ships is pretty much null & void when there are FW corps with Titians and almost unlimited funds with in FW. Not to mention Drakes are hardly very shiny or blingy.
The point I'm making is the current situation just caters to dumbed down PVP, but you simply aren't going to take that PVP else where. You aren't going to take a corp full of frig pilots with no need to have a fleet doctrine and be very successful out in null sec or better yet fighting any other group that does have a solid fleet doctrine.
FW has been dumbed down to the point you don't have to push your corp to be better. Gotta 8-10 mil SP toon hey that's good enough fly a frig or a random Dessie and join the blob.. that's all you will ever need. 9 out of 10 times. |
Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
194
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:01:00 -
[122] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:
So basically you are complaining that FW now is more suited to allow lower skilled players the ability to pvp and be able to fund themselves while doing so?
Or are you complaining that old bitter vets can't get the shiney fleet fights of old and you are seeing your time as being wasted in your training and you have too much isk to know what to do with?
The issues you raise around the need for competant FC and fleet doctrines are really just a sign that the player base has changed and the majority of them are of lower SP/experience so in this respect the FW changes have done exactly what was intented - a revamp of the system to get more ppl into FW. Why complain about his?
As the playerbase matures with FW you will once again see larger fleets and better doctrines and FC apear. If the new itteration of FW is so unpalatable to you then i feel as if you may have changed your preferences and probably need to look elsewhere to get the type of action you require (npc null alliance maybe vOv )
It's a sign of dumbing down the game to be WoW PVP centric. I dunno how anyone can see that as good. I think it's great that CCP has done the ship rebalances and I wish they had done them a bit sooner when our corp was at it's peak, because we really struggled with getting new guys into ships they could be effective in. The problem is you don't need to make 200 mil hour running plexes to fly T1 frigs & dessies. Your argument about shiney ships is pretty much null & void when there are FW corps with Titians and almost unlimited funds with in FW. Not to mention Drakes are hardly very shiny or blingy. The point I'm making is the current situation just caters to dumbed down PVP, but you simply aren't going to take that PVP else where. You aren't going to take a corp full of frig pilots with no need to have a fleet doctrine and be very successful out in null sec or better yet fighting any other group that does have a solid fleet doctrine. FW has been dumbed down to the point you don't have to push your corp to be better. Gotta 8-10 mil SP toon hey that's good enough fly a frig or a random Dessie and join the blob.. that's all you will ever need. 9 out of 10 times.
While I don't agree on the dumbing down of pvp within FW I do understand your arguments. I however feel that you may be looking for gameplay that is currently not available within the FW playerbase. It may well get back to something like what you are wanting but it will take time to re-evolve as the system has undergone such a radical change in the last 6-7 months.
The shiney fleets wasn't mean't as a reference to being able to fund them but being able to fly them competantly and be willing to fly them. Alot of the low SP players I know in Low sec are reluctant to fly them because there is a good chance with their current skillset they are paying 10x + isk for not a great deal more effectiveness. So they fly cheap T1 stuff until they have the SP/experience to fly 'shiney' all the time building their isk reserves so that can lost ships without worrying about. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
154
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Posted - 2013.01.17 11:16:00 -
[123] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:
The shiney fleets wasn't mean't as a reference to being able to fund them but being able to fly them competantly and be willing to fly them. Alot of the low SP players I know in Low sec are reluctant to fly them because there is a good chance with their current skillset they are paying 10x + isk for not a great deal more effectiveness. So they fly cheap T1 stuff until they have the SP/experience to fly 'shiney' all the time building their isk reserves so that can lost ships without worrying about.
How about people, like the "oldest player alliance in EVE", ushrakhan? Can you tell me why do they fly T1 frigs, sometimes fitted T1 when they have 5+ years old pilots? With LP bonus, they also should be able to make well over a billion ISK per hour. |
kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
187
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:00:00 -
[124] - Quote
95% of ushrakhan is new cynthia. they game into FW with a 40 man corp. Rest is new.
ps Cynthia please tell me how I can make billion an hour. |
Antares 04
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
55
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:95% of ushrakhan is new cynthia. they game into FW with a 40 man corp. Rest is new.
ps Cynthia please tell me how I can make billion an hour.
I would love to know this as well. What little plexing I've been able to do under the new system indicates nothing of the sort.
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
222
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:13:00 -
[126] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote: How about people, like the "oldest player alliance in EVE", ushrakhan? Can you tell me why do they fly T1 frigs, sometimes fitted T1 when they have 5+ years old pilots? With LP bonus, they also should be able to make well over a billion ISK per hour.
I am not in U'K' but as my character is born in 2006 I am considered as an "older" pilot. The answer to your question is simple: Some people have a real life and are simply not willing to spend their precious time to dumb activities like running missions to earn ISK to fund shiny ships. Instead they prefer flying cheap stuff and use it for fun things like PVP. And if you do this well, yes then you can fund your cheap losses completely from the loot of the victims you have killed, especially if they fit shiny faction stuff into their ship :-)
So basically fun funds the fun itself, which is a very desireable state once you get an own, real life. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
940
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 13:23:00 -
[127] - Quote
Someone should be counseling new people on fits or - better yet- have alliance forums with cookie cutter fits posted. Off the top of my head I've seen WT SFIs with 1600 and 400mm plates. I've seen armor Ruptures with adaptive Invuln shield mods in the mids. There is just alot of WTF is that?!? |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
595
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:37:00 -
[128] - Quote
I like how a thread about FW mechanics turned into CAOD: FW Edition so quickly. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
941
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Posted - 2013.01.17 17:34:00 -
[129] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:I like how a thread about FW mechanics turned into CAOD: FW Edition so quickly. In the time it took you to post, Cynthia pushed a Minmatar system 5%. Get back to work. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
595
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Posted - 2013.01.17 18:08:00 -
[130] - Quote
Quote:In the time it took you to post, Cynthia pushed a Minmatar system 5%. Get back to work.
That was some impressively fast plexing. |
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
233
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Posted - 2013.01.18 00:14:00 -
[131] - Quote
Feffri wrote:**** forgot about dust... only a bigger advantage for gal/minnies. There going to be the only ones with the isk to buy the mercs. Awesome like they need even more advantages.
Mercs aren't going to be terribly expensive. All their stuff is built by capsuleers, and it's not expensive to build their junk, either. They have no needs other than vehicles, armor, and guns, as far as I know. Haven't looked into it much. Would be cool if they set up some sort of planet-side research, wherein Dustbunnies invent things which they give to capsuleers, who then manufacture from it. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
178
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Posted - 2013.01.18 02:43:00 -
[132] - Quote
Feffri wrote:**** forgot about dust... only a bigger advantage for gal/minnies. There going to be the only ones with the isk to buy the mercs. Awesome like they need even more advantages.
Good point but I doubt it'll work out that way. If dust ever takes off I don't think any one will pay isk for Mercs.
It is very clear that Dust is a 'pay to win' game model. But what is strange is - no one is buying the 'pay to win gear' - everyone is just using the free fits including me. I got my corp rank to 8th in win loss with one toon, free 'rookie' gear and CCP's fail exploitable rank system. CCP is gonna make 0 dollars outta me with dust and I predict over the next 12 months from the entire player base they'll make TENS OF DOLLARS.
The reasoning imo: Why waste isk on a suit, guns etc when you will get spawn killed 3 seconds later? And spawn camping in dust is so easy that you can take it to a whole new level. Sit on a roof and snipe a spawn point or even 2 spawn points at once if you find a good spot with no risk.
The idea of permanent loss of gear when killed that work in eve do not work in a fps. People know they will die 5-6 times a match and quickly learn not to even bother changing suit fittings. Maybe one or two either too rich or too stupids have - but they are such a minority that they do not effect the game. + they will die and lose that stuff within a min or two leaving them with the same rookie gear you are using.
While dust has potential to be more, it has already become the Spawn, Run ,Die, Repeat game like every other fps out there so sinking any isk/cash into it is only for the foolish.
Dust is good fun but it's not gonna be around for long.
At the moment I am avoiding playing it cause it puts players in matches that work against their own factions sov.
I recommend all fw players avoid dust until it's fixed and matches are not auto picked or you WILL be fighting against yourself and making your own life harder in eve if you plex. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
883
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:05:00 -
[133] - Quote
Dust blows goat wang for FW right now. GOAT WANG. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
160
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 14:37:00 -
[134] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote: How about people, like the "oldest player alliance in EVE", ushrakhan? Can you tell me why do they fly T1 frigs, sometimes fitted T1 when they have 5+ years old pilots? With LP bonus, they also should be able to make well over a billion ISK per hour.
I am not in U'K' but as my character is born in 2006 I am considered as an "older" pilot. The answer to your question is simple: Some people have a real life and are simply not willing to spend their precious time to dumb activities like running missions to earn ISK to fund shiny ships. Instead they prefer flying cheap stuff and use it for fun things like PVP. And if you do this well, yes then you can fund your cheap losses completely from the loot of the victims you have killed, especially if they fit shiny faction stuff into their ship :-) So basically fun funds the fun itself, which is a very desireable state once you get an own, real life.
Must be some fascinating life when you need internetfriends, you log in, you chat on TS for hours and you have same number of fights in 5 hours than me in 50 minutes. |
Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2013.01.18 21:47:00 -
[135] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:I like how a thread about FW mechanics turned into CAOD: FW Edition so quickly.
It's because Minmatard and Gallente have a vested interest in maintaining the staus quo and flood these kind of threads with troll posts so CCP can't get a clear picture of the situation.
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Wiedzmin 3
Affinity Fan Club
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 19:36:00 -
[136] - Quote
Squatdog wrote:Kahega Amielden wrote:I like how a thread about FW mechanics turned into CAOD: FW Edition so quickly. It's because Minmatard and Gallente have a vested interest in maintaining the staus quo and flood these kind of threads with troll posts so CCP can't get a clear picture of the situation.
Their gal/min developers and their CSM give them all the clear picture they need. You are playing the bad guy here, deal with it!
Caldari/Amarr still get more attention than Sansha/Blood Raider/Serpentis/Angel Cartel/Guristas roleplayers anyway. |
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
99
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 23:19:00 -
[137] - Quote
I think for being t1 not to long ago amarr has done a hell of a job turning the tide.
should be an intersting rest of the month and see if we can pin minnies to t2 for awhile |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
488
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 00:02:00 -
[138] - Quote
Ideal scenario is both near midpoint in tier3 so we have a proper tug-o-war like in the old days (when it was done for honour and bragging).
Shakorites has/had a massive advantage in geography with more 'native' systems, most of which were tucked away behind a single access point .. that changed and the whole war changed. Why it wasn't done all those years ago when we first alerted CCP to error of their ways is beyond me ... best change to Amarr/Shakorite FW since navy frigs if you ask me.
Personal note: Curious how the Shakorites has apparently grown used to having a high tier with minimal LP investment so they now drop like a stone when the systems flip, makes one wonder if they even know how that part of the system works .. if they had any strategic sense they'd pump all systems, get as close to tier4 as possible and use that in the "motivational speak of the week".
All is pointless though as long as the wars are decided by whomever has the most alts .. wonder if we'll see a tweak or two come may to help stablilize it some or if it will be allowed to flounder until a whole series of changes are ready (ie. years from now). |
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
99
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 00:59:00 -
[139] - Quote
i think we will have a good back n forth between min and amarr now. this weekend will be interesting as minnies have always had strong eeekend warriors that push hard
but i wonder how many of them were just alts grinding isk on non schooldays to buy a plex? if thats the case the big push might leave after calc the t2 lp rewards with current minnie prices
if i was minnie id save your lps. your store all but bottomed out. prices can only go up if t2 stays for a week or two |
Takanuro
Amarrian Vengeance 24eme Legion Etrangere
12
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Posted - 2013.01.20 01:15:00 -
[140] - Quote
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:i think we will have a good back n forth between min and amarr now. this weekend will be interesting as minnies have always had strong eeekend warriors that push hard
but i wonder how many of them were just alts grinding isk on non schooldays to buy a plex? if thats the case the big push might leave after calc the t2 lp rewards with current minnie prices
if i was minnie id save your lps. your store all but bottomed out. prices can only go up if t2 stays for a week or two
Damn, I was gonna start flying SFI's when they hit 20mil isk, now what am I going to do. ;p |
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Wiedzmin 3
Affinity Fan Club
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 11:18:00 -
[141] - Quote
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:i think we will have a good back n forth between min and amarr now. this weekend will be interesting as minnies have always had strong eeekend warriors that push hard
but i wonder how many of them were just alts grinding isk on non schooldays to buy a plex? if thats the case the big push might leave after calc the t2 lp rewards with current minnie prices
if i was minnie id save your lps. your store all but bottomed out. prices can only go up if t2 stays for a week or two
You just tell your corpmates, it is not NEARLY as profitable to have their farmer alt in Amarr, it is MORE profitable now. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
490
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 11:42:00 -
[142] - Quote
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:...if i was minnie id save your lps. your store all but bottomed out. prices can only go up if t2 stays for a week or two Did that market miracle happen for Amarr items? Did it happen for Caldari items?
Even if all militias maxed out all systems and did their damnedest to bleed it out through plexing I doubt you'd make so much as a dent in the LP stockpile built up during the nine month FarmWar .. and with a constant LP gain (even if just a trickle by comparison) I don't foresee much movement on the market the next year at least.
Hell, most markets had bottomed out prior to the FarmWar "expansion" due to excessive mission whoring ..
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
76
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 12:06:00 -
[143] - Quote
omg u guys are at t3 my alts making mucho isk from napocs and u guys are still complaining now because ur minnie alts lps are useless ...... GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
490
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 12:14:00 -
[144] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:omg u guys are at t3 my alts making mucho isk from napocs and u guys are still complaining now because ur minnie alts lps are useless ...... You are making less and less sense by the day. Did you read the thread or even the original post?
We are nagging about the tier system, not that X is at tier Y. Could care less about winning/losing as long as I have equal opportunities and fun using them .. neither of which apply with current system. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
76
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 12:41:00 -
[145] - Quote
from the OP ..........for our new players in corp its an up hill struggle at -50% they have a big dis-advantage compared to our wonderful opponents.
veshta the system is same for all races u fight hard u get rewarded u slip by the wayside u get punished GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
490
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 13:21:00 -
[146] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:...veshta the system is same for all races u fight hard u get rewarded u slip by the wayside u get punished at the time of writing this the amarr have the upper hand with 2 systems ready to fall to put them infront capitalise on this and turn the amarr whiners into minmatar whiners.... someone has to be the loser/underdog So what if it is the same for everyone, does not make the system any better, just as a rule saying that all marathon runners must have a pebble in their shoe at all times would make that sport any better.
Problem with tier system is that it has a whole slew of benefits for whomever is winning and diddly for whomever is losing, which makes any comeback dependent on a massive influx of people .. an influx that is doubtful in most cases due to Eve being all about wallet updates. Amarr has made progress because of a drop in Minmatar activity coinciding with returning Amarr old-timers .. fighting (ie. fun) has not increased (but will when the excrement-infused-fan is aimed at Huola/Auga/Arzad).
System should promote fun and not hoarding .. tier system does not and should therefore be re-evaluated.
As for remaining LP, there was a prolonged period after the last cash-out with 90% of area vulnerable and being farmed to hell and back so yes I am quite confident that there are still billions of LP still sitting in peoples wallets as the items garnered from cash-outs has for the most part probably still not been sold .. market can only move so many units regardless of price.
Further on LP: There is only one LP sink and that is system upgrades, but guess what that does .. increases tier, which increases LP .. you'd need to have a faction spend all their LP on upgrades and then spin ships forever for that sink to have any noticeable impact.
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
76
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 15:20:00 -
[147] - Quote
yes the winners get paid more thats because they put the work in its true irl too if everything was the same then there wouldnt be ne point to fighting for systems and wed be bk to square 1 the way it used to be with the roleplayers the only ones bothered about warzone control (yes i know ur a rp corp its probably why it apeals to you) GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
954
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 15:27:00 -
[148] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Problem with tier system is that it has a whole slew of benefits for whomever is winning and diddly for whomever is losing, which makes any comeback dependent on a massive influx of people .. an influx that is doubtful in most cases due to Eve being all about wallet updates.
There is more than "diddly" payouts for the losing side. Faction frigs are still 1/8 the LP cost as regular mission runners even at Tier 1. Run two novices and get a factiong frig. That ain't too bad.
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Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
99
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 18:09:00 -
[149] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Problem with tier system is that it has a whole slew of benefits for whomever is winning and diddly for whomever is losing, which makes any comeback dependent on a massive influx of people .. an influx that is doubtful in most cases due to Eve being all about wallet updates.
There is more than "diddly" payouts for the losing side. Faction frigs are still 1/8 the LP cost as regular mission runners even at Tier 1. Run two novices and get a factiong frig. That ain't too bad.
I'm with you Gal X, yes t1 sucked, i was not going to plex my account on it, but i could at t2!
im glad Amarr got the upperhand, not only cuz i've been plexing hard to try for this, but so it can show that this system does work, and the war can move back n forth
Lets have some good pew pew! |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
78
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 19:30:00 -
[150] - Quote
tbh the system was never broken just with the land grab and then people figuring it out took time for war zones to adjust im watching in on the Minnie / amarr war zone it now seems interesting when we was there it was all the minnies way and got boring. But total domination is achievable to any side thats corps actually work together like the gallentes did if caldaris could have put aside there differences maybe they could have done something about it . What i did notice wen in minnie space the amarr after the land grab went the same way as caldaris did with in house fighting but since the recent patch u guys seem to have actually bonded more and it shows on the fw map GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
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