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Count of MonteCylon
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
43
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Posted - 2013.01.13 01:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000.
Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things Buff Low-Sec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2400257#post2400257 |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
299
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Posted - 2013.01.13 01:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hisec industry is borked.
People pay for the privilege of building ****** t1 items because the effort of doing so is so low. |
Debra Tao
Perkone Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2013.01.13 01:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
It maybe be the aftermath of Retribution where some frigates cost have been increased. And generally speaking T1 items aren't really profitable to make but you can definitely make profit if you research the market enough. Ammos are usually profitable to make.
If you want to make more profit sell ships/ammos/whatever in missions hub, margins are higher usually. |
Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
49
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Posted - 2013.01.13 01:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Career agents give them away so you will invariably always see one or two that are being sold based on reproc cost.
Run through the Career agent missions, see what ships are there as rewards. From Punisher to Sigil to Venture. They will never be profitable to make. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
309
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Posted - 2013.01.13 02:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have met hundreds of players who will tell you, "they get the minerals for free". You can't really compete with that mentality...
Sorry to say, the same mentality happens all the way up through BS and expensive items as well. Similar pattern for invention items.
Manufacturing is a hard career indeed. |
ZX 185
Dirty Rats
12
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Posted - 2013.01.13 02:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
They increased the mineral cost of producing tech 1 frigs and cruisers by almost 96% for the latter infact. Lots of people were producing said ships on mass for months prior to patch, untill stockpiles are depleted you won't be able to even break even producing them. |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
49
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Posted - 2013.01.13 06:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
there's a dev blog detailing the change. buildcost jumped by 2-10X as much (the 96% figure, my calculations do not support) A number of players like myself built TONS of frigates at the old cost. according to the blogs figures, something like 500k were built, at the old price? |
leoplusma
Delfus Inc. HumAnnoyeD
216
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Posted - 2013.01.13 11:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000. Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things
lol hell yeah
t1 frigates manufacturing DIED and we will have to wait until settles again. (bantams for example, they sell under 100k while the minerals cost 400k+ but you cant reprocess them because god invented extra materials lol) still, people make fortunes piling up those ships in their hangars for later selling.
cheers
leo |
Alain Colcer
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.01.13 12:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Just buy the items if they are under reprocessing cost, melt them, and build new stuff. |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
422
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Posted - 2013.01.13 12:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:I have met hundreds of players who will tell you, "they get the minerals for free". You can't really compete with that mentality...
This is main reason, every other explanation is noise. |
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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
337
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Posted - 2013.01.14 05:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
First it was mining ships, then it was frigates now its cruisers
dont ask why, just find something else to do and buy out the cheep stuff while the going is good.
P.S.
Free minerals is not about mining free minerals. |
Rammes lol
USMG ExFor Legem Terrae.
15
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Posted - 2013.01.14 09:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maybe people are tired of high prices and are trying to stop the inflation. They care less about turning a profit but it just to bring prices down so people can have more fun and will risk more during PVP, as far as the frigates go got to start somewhere. |
Bydlo Moneymaker
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.01.14 11:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rammes lol wrote:Maybe people are tired of high prices and are trying to stop the inflation. They care less about turning a profit but it just to bring prices down so people can have more fun and will risk more during PVP, as far as the frigates go got to start somewhere.
Yeah ... right ... and that's why communism worked.
Oh ... wait. |
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
17
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Posted - 2013.01.14 13:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
There are plenty of T1 ships that are profitable to produce - including destroyers both old and new for example. You do need Prod .Eff V though or you're just wasting you money. Without PE V you can stick to small rigs and other items with low numeric requirements on the BOM.
It is kind of sad really but without "wasting" two weeks training that up you wont get anywhere. |
Samroski
Games Inc.
140
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Posted - 2013.01.14 18:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Also consider traders who buy frigates very cheap, using regional orders e.g. 10 ISK each. Once enough ships pile up, they may be sold at any price for a good profit. May be a small segment of the market, with possibly a significant impact on prices. Happiness is a warm gun. |
Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
279
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Posted - 2013.01.15 01:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000. Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things
People made thousands (700,000 in the few weeks prior to the frigate patch) which means they were able to manufacture them at considerablly less then their now current material costs to manufacture. This means as long as they make more then the pre-patch costs they will make a profit.
And with a few hundred thousand of these pre-patch manufactured ships on the market trying to be moved as quickly as possible the profit that is possible because of all the competition is currently rather low.
Same thing happened with mining barges and cruisers.
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Callduron
159
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Posted - 2013.01.16 11:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000. Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things
Buy them, reprocess them, sell the minerals. That will fix it. |
Dave Stark
1561
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Posted - 2013.01.16 11:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Wyke Mossari wrote:RavenPaine wrote:I have met hundreds of players who will tell you, "they get the minerals for free". You can't really compete with that mentality...
This is main reason, every other explanation is noise.
actually, i think you'll find tiericide is the main reason right now. when you add minerals overnight, and inform every one you're going to do so, people will scramble to make thousands of them before the change to make profit from it after the change. as has happened with every ship touched by tiericide so far. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
417
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000. Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things If you do not know the answer to this you should not be building anything.
Try reading the developer blogs when they are posted on the launcher.
All mining ships, frigates, destroyers, and cruisers have been reworked under the teiricide plan. Most of these ships have had there mineral requirements increased. Everyone knew about this way in advance and many many manufacturers built large stock piles of these ships before the patch knowing they would be worth much more after. Most of these ships cost 3-5 times as much to build as they used to. the ships currently selling are those stockpiles. those sellers are making 50% profit or more, even though the ships can not be built any longer for those prices.
Battlecruisers will be done in the May expansion. Followed by battleships, T2 and T3.
By the time teiricide is done there will be no ship that can be built at a profit until the stock piles are gone. I expect that to take at least a year.
For example mining ships were done in October, and there are still massive stockpiles of them selling well below current manufacturing costs.
Sorry you missed the boat, unless you are going to build battlecruisers, or battleships in the next two months you will not be able make isk building ships for at least a year.
CCP was so paranoid about the exploits that would have been created doing this any other way, that they decided to just give all new ship manufacturers who missed the opportunity to stock pile these ships a great big C*** in A**, while once again helping the veterans get richer. |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
286
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Posted - 2013.01.19 03:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Sorry you missed the boat, unless you are going to build battlecruisers, or battleships in the next two months you will not be able make isk building ships for at least a year.
The figures i've seen on JUST the Procurers put the estimate of about 3-5 years worth were built in anticipation. I imagine it is roughly the same with most of the other T1 ships that got 'adjusted' this year.
And it will be this way for most of the T1 frigs, and cruisers, sad to say. This means new industrial characters have to invest alot more monies to get into anything even remotely worth while.
The quick and easy way to stabilize the market would be for CCP to adjust the scrap rate to reflect the new build costs. But alas, they refuse b/c 'it would benefit too many ppl making such easy money'....well guess what...thats already happening, you are just drawing it out over a very very long period of time with your current method. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
1030
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Posted - 2013.01.19 04:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Sorry you missed the boat, unless you are going to build battlecruisers, or battleships in the next two months you will not be able make isk building ships for at least a year.
The figures i've seen on JUST the Procurers put the estimate of about 3-5 years worth were built in anticipation. I imagine it is roughly the same with most of the other T1 ships that got 'adjusted' this year. And it will be this way for most of the T1 frigs, and cruisers, sad to say. This means new industrial characters have to invest alot more monies to get into anything even remotely worth while. The quick and easy way to stabilize the market would be for CCP to adjust the scrap rate to reflect the new build costs. But alas, they refuse b/c 'it would benefit too many ppl making such easy money'....well guess what...thats already happening, you are just drawing it out over a very very long period of time with your current method.
Unlike the mining vessels though, the t1 frigs/cruisers are much more likely to go *pop*. I don't believe they had quite the same inflation of materials either (though i could be wrong on that).
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Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
203
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Posted - 2013.01.19 13:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
When the BC/BB production lines get into full flow we will know because of rising mineral prices. |
Dave Stark
1608
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Posted - 2013.01.19 14:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zelda Wei wrote: When the BC/BB production lines get into full flow we will know because of rising mineral prices.
already happening. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
286
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Posted - 2013.01.19 15:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote: Unlike the mining vessels though, the t1 frigs/cruisers are much more likely to go *pop*. I don't believe they had quite the same inflation of materials either (though i could be wrong on that).
I know the 2 frigs i built a limited number of b/c i figured CCP was not going to adjust scrap rates had about a 5x increase in minerals. Most of the other ships i looked at were about 3x increase in mineral cost.
Heck, these frigs are currently the same price they were a full year ago, i don't see this as a good sign. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
203
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Posted - 2013.01.19 18:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Zelda Wei wrote: When the BC/BB production lines get into full flow we will know because of rising mineral prices.
already happening.
Production has undoubted started.
However it is a long way short of full flow while we still see questions like this and mineral prices have barely moved.
When this is over most mineral will be up by 10% and isogen, nocxium and mex up 20% or more. |
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