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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.23 06:53:00 -
[31]
It's that ridiculous lottery really, nobody would get 20 billion ISK off missions alone, unless they are a very sad and lonely person.
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.23 06:57:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Noriath It's that ridiculous lottery really, nobody would get 20 billion ISK off missions alone, unless they are a very sad and lonely person.
Not... but in a few months they can easily make a few billion... which is a bit crap considering how easy they are to comlete.
Umm havin said that i think you can blame most of it on the Raven.. and thats being balanced .. and level 4's are being made Un-soloable (apparently )
Originally by: Eris Discordia *gives Typherin some loving*
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Typherin laidai
Not... but in a few months they can easily make a few billion... which is a bit crap considering how easy they are to comlete.
Umm havin said that i think you can blame most of it on the Raven.. and thats being balanced .. and level 4's are being made Un-soloable (apparently )
Not quite, with the right tank an apoc with 8 multispek mega pulse lasers it should be fine for most but the hardest.
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anter
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:03:00 -
[34]
PvPers arent wealthy because most of them arent using their skills to potential isk they could make, but instead they go and shoot anything and everyone.
They could make a lot of isk by securing conquarable station and escorting miners to their space, then keeping their space clean of pirates and then getting taxes from station that miners use.
I hope these contracts that are coming in some patch are going to give possibility and idea for some pvpers to use their skills to something new.
Some Merc corps are exception, but lot of these are also pirate corps when they dont have contract and not many want hire these pirate corps.
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:09:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 23/06/2005 07:05:14 Edited by: Gamer4liff on 23/06/2005 07:05:10
Originally by: Typherin laidai
Not... but in a few months they can easily make a few billion... which is a bit crap considering how easy they are to comlete.
Umm havin said that i think you can blame most of it on the Raven.. and thats being balanced .. and level 4's are being made Un-soloable (apparently )
Not quite, with the right tank an apoc with 8 multispek mega pulse lasers should be fine for most but the hardest.
yes but to run all of them solo you need a lot more Sp to fly the apoc well than you do the raven.. I have no probs with high skilled players being able to solo them but the problem was that anyone could run a level 4 mission in a raven with fairly shoddy skills.
Originally by: Eris Discordia *gives Typherin some loving*
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Lorth
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:10:00 -
[36]
I'll have to agree that there is far to much isk running around eve as it is right now.
I'll even go so far as to put the blame on level 4 missions, again. I'm not certain how anyone can argue with a straight face, that missions are some how ballenced, in comparision with other means of making isk.
Sure they are fun (well I hate them but...) but allowing players who do not have the player skills, or the will to risk a trip into 0.0, a simular ammount of income in empire is frankly against what eve was about untill exodus.
There is no other profestion in eve where one can be tottaly immune from PVP, and make even a faction of what mission runners can.
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Typherin laidai
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 23/06/2005 07:05:14 Edited by: Gamer4liff on 23/06/2005 07:05:10
Originally by: Typherin laidai
Not... but in a few months they can easily make a few billion... which is a bit crap considering how easy they are to comlete.
Umm havin said that i think you can blame most of it on the Raven.. and thats being balanced .. and level 4's are being made Un-soloable (apparently )
Not quite, with the right tank an apoc with 8 multispek mega pulse lasers should be fine for most but the hardest.
yes but to run all of them solo you need a lot more Sp to fly the apoc well than you do the raven.. I have no probs with high skilled players being able to solo them but the problem was that anyone could run a level 4 mission in a raven with fairly shoddy skills.
good, glad we agree, i hates them lowskill raven runners anyway.
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:14:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Typherin laidai
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 23/06/2005 07:05:14 Edited by: Gamer4liff on 23/06/2005 07:05:10
Originally by: Typherin laidai
Not... but in a few months they can easily make a few billion... which is a bit crap considering how easy they are to comlete.
Umm havin said that i think you can blame most of it on the Raven.. and thats being balanced .. and level 4's are being made Un-soloable (apparently )
Not quite, with the right tank an apoc with 8 multispek mega pulse lasers should be fine for most but the hardest.
yes but to run all of them solo you need a lot more Sp to fly the apoc well than you do the raven.. I have no probs with high skilled players being able to solo them but the problem was that anyone could run a level 4 mission in a raven with fairly shoddy skills.
good, glad we agree, i hates them lowskill raven runners anyway.
Urr sorry for stealing your sig btw
Il nick someone else later.. think I saw Lorth post round here somewhere
Originally by: Eris Discordia *gives Typherin some loving*
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Karmic
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:21:00 -
[39]
I'm not rich - - - - - - - - -
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Lorth
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:24:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Lorth on 23/06/2005 07:25:05
Originally by: anter PvPers arent wealthy because most of them arent using their skills to potential isk they could make, but instead they go and shoot anything and everyone.
They could make a lot of isk by securing conquarable station and escorting miners to their space, then keeping their space clean of pirates and then getting taxes from station that miners use.
I hope these contracts that are coming in some patch are going to give possibility and idea for some pvpers to use their skills to something new.
Some Merc corps are exception, but lot of these are also pirate corps when they dont have contract and not many want hire these pirate corps.
I'm going to assume that you have never been in an allience. Because every allience I know of has tried that and it has failed miserably.
Firstly, miners (or anyone) do not want to pay for other peoples fun. It doesn't matter what you do, there will be complaints. They don't want to pay taxes on refined minerals, because they see it as free isk to others. They also watch as the PVP'rs run around, have a good time, and think why am I paying for this.
Further, as a PVP'r you will never statify even the majority of the miners. If there are no pirates around, they will complain. Why are we paying all this isk to fight off non-existant foe's. If someone gets through and kills the miners, they will complain. Why are we paying all this isk for no protection.
Theres more. Miners can not be trusted to not do stupid things. If theres one hostile in local, and 25 miners, I bet that the hostile gets 6 kills before anyone figures it out. Then watch allience chat fill up with complaints about how poor the PVP'rs are who can't defend thier space from one pirate. Never mind the fact theres 25 miners, who seemenly do nothing to protect them selves. Its amasing how one person can force 25 people to safe spot, or dock.
I could go on, but this is bringing back some bad memories of a now dead allience. In which half of the members left for empire saying "Thanks for the free crok, call us if you ever get this sorted" As soon as Molle said boo.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:40:00 -
[41]
More ISK enters the system than leaves. So yes, there is too much ISK in Eve.
What to do about it? Remove some ISK from the system, and reduce the amount entering.
How? No idea.
I remember like about a billion years ago how Eve ranted about its closed economy. For everything created, something must be destroyed.
What happened to that? ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Noveron
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:43:00 -
[42]
the impression I get is that you get lots of isk only if you play A LOT!
Im having a hard time to buy my own first BS!
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Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.06.23 07:47:00 -
[43]
Macrominers ruin this game.
Equipment going for 200-400% over normal price in some regions. We need a 1929 in here.
-- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty." |
anter
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lorth
I'm going to assume that you have never been in an allience. Because every allience I know of has tried that and it has failed miserably.
Firstly, miners (or anyone) do not want to pay for other peoples fun. It doesn't matter what you do, there will be complaints. They don't want to pay taxes on refined minerals, because they see it as free isk to others. They also watch as the PVP'rs run around, have a good time, and think why am I paying for this.
Further, as a PVP'r you will never statify even the majority of the miners. If there are no pirates around, they will complain. Why are we paying all this isk to fight off non-existant foe's. If someone gets through and kills the miners, they will complain. Why are we paying all this isk for no protection.
Theres more. Miners can not be trusted to not do stupid things. If theres one hostile in local, and 25 miners, I bet that the hostile gets 6 kills before anyone figures it out. Then watch allience chat fill up with complaints about how poor the PVP'rs are who can't defend thier space from one pirate. Never mind the fact theres 25 miners, who seemenly do nothing to protect them selves. Its amasing how one person can force 25 people to safe spot, or dock.
I could go on, but this is bringing back some bad memories of a now dead allience. In which half of the members left for empire saying "Thanks for the free crok, call us if you ever get this sorted" As soon as Molle said boo.
Tools are there to use, but seem like most dont want to make it work. Contracts are going to give more tools for players, but if players dont want to make it work and rather shoot their clients then its doomed.
I assume there is some merc corps that arent pirate corps that actually make quite good isk from pvp.
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Fi T'Zeh
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:11:00 -
[45]
Communism ftw.
I've never had more than 50m in my wallet in over 2 years of eve, yet i've lacked not battleship nor tech2 guns nor ammunition nor HAC. In a corp that cooperates and shares, personal wealth is irrelevant. ....
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Serpensis Macrominers ruin this game.
Equipment going for 200-400% over normal price in some regions. We need a 1929 in here.
Macrominers, in all their sploity glory, do not do nearly as much damage to the economy as your typical lvl 4 agent grinder.
They introduce minerals into the economy that wouldn't otherwise be there. They go nuts with the macromining (or any kind of mining) and the value of that mineral will drop as the supply outweighs the demand. All it does is provide skewed prices to current minerals, that screws with real players, new players or real industrial corps that would otherwise be making a lot more isk if people weren't doing it illegally.
As for isk sinks. Lots of people are saying "NO IDEA" or "I DISAGREE"
Well heres a few you can chew on:
- Drop insurance back to 3 weeks, I don't even want to ask why it was changed to three months. Probably papasmurf got into the code or something
- New blueprints need to be in the order of tens of billions
- Hull repairers should no longer use cap, but some type of charge or fuel that would come from the market. Would make coming out of a fight with 5% hull mean something as you'd be forking over 10-15m just to repair your bship.
- More agent services, higher quality and higher cost of existing ones
- More agent offers that ask for a combination of isk and lp
- INGAME BILLBOARD ADVERTISING, after two years, they're still as annoying and pointless as ever
Neh? _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:38:00 -
[47]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 23/06/2005 08:39:00 I have high hopes for the missile tweaks.
IMO the agent missions introduce isk in a way that isn't good for the game. Most all other means of generating these huge amounts of cash are tied directly to a very high monetary risk, either through the risk of getting blown up (in .0) or just loosing the cash (bad trade). This keeps making money at a balance, because the more risk you take the higher your reward.
For agent missions that isn't the case. I have several people in my corp who can solo lvl4 missions quite easily and they have earned billions doing so. The risk, compared to other money making avenues, is fairly low while the rewards are way beyond reasonable.
I hope that after the missile tweak agent missions won't be that easy to solo anymore, so that it requires a team of 2 or more people to accomplish them. This would put the reward back in line with everything else.
The damage however is already done. I see items going for 60m isk which were going for 20m before lvl4's came in. Go figure.
Mai's Idealog |
Karol Kei
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:43:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Karol Kei on 23/06/2005 08:44:00 DC is right to a great extend. However, the topic is a dead horse. Apart from him and a handful of other people honestly concerned about the game, most of the lvl 4 complaints are really just whines about people that were billionaires before lvl 4. They, like me, see their ISK devalued every day and it despairs them.
Now first point: DC is right.
Second point: Many of the complainers are ultra rich because of gridding roids / NPC and thus gathering the streams of income of many grinders - or just chaining of old and then investing. Or gridding.
None of this was "right" either. So to argue that level 4 is somehow ruining the game doesn't hold water with me. The game was never "right" to begin with.
Level 4 just caters for different people than gridding did. And now the gridders whine. Argue all you want.
Again, for the sake of clarity, I do recognize that there are a few, precious few, that want to fix the game. All power to them.
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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:45:00 -
[49]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
People running lvl 4 missions solo is wrong. Battleship spawns in 1.0 is wrong.
Argue all you like.
When will you stop with is gibberish ? Nothing wrong with "people running lvl4 missions solo". Nothing wrong with "battleships spawns in 1.0".
Let me tell you what is really wrong ( in terms of inflation):
1) PVP pampers.
Introduce insurance standings based on how many and how often you loose your ships.
2) NPC mineral price control
Remove NPC mineral purchase orders.
3) Loot tables
Stop dropping T1 gear. Replace it with faction/named gear, trade goods, implants or anything else which is not contradicting player manufacturing process.
4) Empire wealth sandbox
Introduce proggessive income tax in Empire, so more-you-make- more-you-spent formula enforced on all players in the Empire, regardless if they do level 4 missions, producing Cap Recharges II or re-selling antibiotics.
5) Trader pampers
Distribute NPC trade goods sale and purchase orders between Empire and 0.0.
Hmm... actually there are much more issues, but all above just most obvious problems in regards of easy ISK, inflation and exodus fiasco.
Olivin
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Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:46:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Communism ftw.
I've never had more than 50m in my wallet in over 2 years of eve, yet i've lacked not battleship nor tech2 guns nor ammunition nor HAC. In a corp that cooperates and shares, personal wealth is irrelevant.
Not in a war it is not. Then you need a lot of ISK.
-- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty." |
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:52:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Karol Kei
DC is right to a great extend. However, the topic is a dead horse. Apart from him and a handful of other people honestly concerned about the game, most of the lvl 4 complaints are really just whines about people that were billionaires before lvl 4. They, like me, see their ISK devalued every day and it despairs them.
Or maybe it's just people who see their corpmates not logging in anymore because making isk is just too easy?
Mai's Idealog |
Karol Kei
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Posted - 2005.06.23 08:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Or maybe it's just people who see their corpmates not logging in anymore because making isk is just too easy?
And how does that make their corp-mates not log in anymore?
Don't get me wrong, I know the effect. I have precious few friends left in the game as it is. I am just curious how do you figure that making ISK too easy these days compared to making ISK too easy in the days of old is different?
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.06.23 09:01:00 -
[53]
as the game is now we have more isk than needed for a basic life.
why?
because theres about to be some serious content at the multi billion level.
Freighters, dreads and outposts in next patch with titans and carriers in kali.
Add to that the probability of more player owned structures costing a bit to come you are looking at all the future isk use for the current influx.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2005.06.23 09:06:00 -
[54]
As soon as you accept a level 4 mission, you are criminally flagged until it is completed.
And by the way geniuses, "working hard to earn their trillions" doesn't include sitting on your research slots until the lord almighty deems you to be his chosen holy paladin to distribute happiness and capcharger 2s. ------------
We come in peace. And tanks. |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 09:17:00 -
[55]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 23/06/2005 09:24:06
Originally by: Karol Kei
Don't get me wrong, I know the effect. I have precious few friends left in the game as it is. I am just curious how do you figure that making ISK too easy these days compared to making ISK too easy in the days of old is different?
Several of my mates play the game exclusively because of the trade/industrial aspect. When making money in empire becomes so easy that practically everyone who does agent missions can buy whatever he wants without even spending a thought on it, trade and industry as a whole becomes boring.
The PvP aspect of trade, price competition, manufacturing, etc becomes boring when people have more than enough money to buy whatever they wish.
On another note, if you have been running manufacturing for more than 1.5 years, enjoying the competition that actually takes place in that area, you become quite bored when everyone suddenly makes more money during two missions than you can make during an entire week of manufacturing business (T1 that is).
It makes the game boring for those people because not only do they suddenly become ultra-rich within a few weeks themselves, other people become similarly rich aswell and that removes every need for actually thinking about how you spend your isk. Now when you don't need to think anymore while thinking and strategizing (sp?) is the only reason for you to play, what incentive is there for you to keep loggin in? You name it.
The difference between now and the old days is quite simple. Just log in and look at how players are concentrated on the map, then compare that to how it used to be. You didn't see thousands of people gridding back then did you?
Mai's Idealog |
AlexK100
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Posted - 2005.06.23 09:22:00 -
[56]
OMFG devs please nerf it
Just leave 150 mils on each account ant we`ll have social equality. Noone should be able to earn more as me, casual players who plays once in month!
Nerf wealth! Nefr T2 ( owners of BPO`s earn too much) Nerf... nerf... nerf...
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hired goon
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Posted - 2005.06.23 09:25:00 -
[57]
Originally by: AlexK100
Nerf... nerf... nerf...
*hired goon screams for help from other forum members while desperately trying to push the alt back into the container it has managed to escape from, before others manage to get out. ------------
We come in peace. And tanks. |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 09:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: hired goon
Originally by: AlexK100
Nerf... nerf... nerf...
*hired goon screams for help from other forum members while desperately trying to push the alt back into the container it has managed to escape from, before others manage to get out.
A railgun will do. No need to waste a container
Mai's Idealog |
Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.06.23 09:43:00 -
[59]
Last i checked, there were a hell of a lot more lvl 4 agent runners than macro miners.
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Tamur
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Posted - 2005.06.23 09:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Serpensis Macrominers ruin this game.
Equipment going for 200-400% over normal price in some regions. We need a 1929 in here.
Macrominers, in all their sploity glory, do not do nearly as much damage to the economy as your typical lvl 4 agent grinder.
They introduce minerals into the economy that wouldn't otherwise be there. They go nuts with the macromining (or any kind of mining) and the value of that mineral will drop as the supply outweighs the demand. All it does is provide skewed prices to current minerals, that screws with real players, new players or real industrial corps that would otherwise be making a lot more isk if people weren't doing it illegally.
As for isk sinks. Lots of people are saying "NO IDEA" or "I DISAGREE"
Well heres a few you can chew on:
- Drop insurance back to 3 weeks, I don't even want to ask why it was changed to three months. Probably papasmurf got into the code or something
- New blueprints need to be in the order of tens of billions
- Hull repairers should no longer use cap, but some type of charge or fuel that would come from the market. Would make coming out of a fight with 5% hull mean something as you'd be forking over 10-15m just to repair your bship.
- More agent services, higher quality and higher cost of existing ones
- More agent offers that ask for a combination of isk and lp
- INGAME BILLBOARD ADVERTISING, after two years, they're still as annoying and pointless as ever
Neh?
You are an intelligent player. I would encourage CCP to take serious note of some of the things you say and ideas you come up with.
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Solo-ing EVE 1 year at a time...
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