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Akialoa
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Posted - 2005.06.24 21:12:00 -
[1]
This is posted by my alt, because i dont wish for the corp in question to be flamed (nor do i for that matter), i just think that this is rather amusing.
Backstory.... My corp declared war or industrial corp got some kills and demanded some isk and we'd cancel the war (fair enough). The industrial corp hires some mercs to 'take care' of us, this goes a bit wrong as our corp inflicts substantially greater losses on the merc corp than we suffer (we did only lose 1 crow to them). The industrial corp then decides to join an IGA, which puts up our war cost from a paltry 2mil p/w to 100mil p/w, being poor pvp'ers in a small corp we cant cover this for too long, so we dont bother paying for the war against the alliance. The corp CEO then recieves this eve-mail.
"Thank You For Retracting your War with Our Clients
Now comes to the Matter Of our Compensation
Please Contact me When You Are Ready TO Discuss This FurTher
Thanks IN Advance Name removed to protect identity"
A merc corp hired to inflict damages then asks from compensation from the peeps who they dec'd to pay for their losses, i think someone needs to go back to the drawing board.
And the fact we only retracted, coz we couldn't afford the 100mil war fee for more than a few weeks.
Thought i'd share this experience, and see what others think about this 'behaviour'.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.24 21:20:00 -
[2]
Ducking into an alliance to avoid a war does suck, but I'd keep an eye on that corp. If they leave the alliance to avoid dues and return to previous modus operandi, they'll probably have much more difficulty re-applying for the alliance if you repeat your activity. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.06.24 21:30:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/06/2005 21:30:40 Personally, you should be allowed to declare on A corp in an alliance. Then if it truely is an alliance, the alliance can help said corp at no additional war cost. Instead of Alliances being used as wallet protection.
An alliance is suppose to be about helping a friend when under attack. Not shielding them with isk sinks.
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.24 23:18:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/06/2005 21:30:40 Personally, you should be allowed to declare on A corp in an alliance. Then if it truely is an alliance, the alliance can help said corp at no additional war cost. Instead of Alliances being used as wallet protection.
An alliance is suppose to be about helping a friend when under attack. Not shielding them with isk sinks.
If you declare war on A corp in an alliance you declare war on the alliance its not to hard to figure out that. that your war effort cost goes up by declaring a world war rather then a street war is not so hard to understand either.
There is litterally hundreds of people on this board each day complaining on to little pvp out there. When people that do their best to avoid pvp do so you guys jump the gun and shout cowards etc etc. yet the same people seam to avoid all the others asking for more pvp, its like a insane miracle that happens every single day, 1000 people log in every day and only can find people that do not want to pvp. gee a little effort from your side and im sure you have as much pvp you want, or is it rather the fact you only like pvp when you have the upper hand by a good margin? if people join an alliance to avoid war, then get the hint and see they are not interested in pvp, go look for someone that are, and belive me there is many every day posting on this board littlerally begging you to go to war with them.
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H0ot
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Posted - 2005.06.25 01:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sweetpain If you declare war on A corp in an alliance you declare war on the alliance its not to hard to figure out that. that your war effort cost goes up by declaring a world war rather then a street war is not so hard to understand either.
You're missing the point. If corp A declares war on corp B, and corp B exploits high warcosts by joining an alliance then the system is flawed.
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Xoria Krint
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Posted - 2005.06.25 01:12:00 -
[6]
Keep killing them in lowsec. hunt them forever
Space Invader | Shadow Of The Ghost | Xoria Krint
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MooKids
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Posted - 2005.06.25 01:20:00 -
[7]
Back to the subject at hand.
Akialoa, did this merc corp expect your corp to pay for their losses because they "won" their war or are they just really arrogant/stupid? -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Akialoa
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Posted - 2005.06.25 10:20:00 -
[8]
Ty MooKids for brining the topic back to one of the main points i raised.
I have no problem with the corp joining an alliance, if i could afford to run the op for a substantial time (i can afford the war, but against an alliance losses would be greater), i will be keeping tabs on them to make sure they dont leave the IGA, if they do they'll have another war with us to worry about.
I honestly do think that the merc corp hired to inflict a few kills on us (a pirate/merc/soldier of fortune corp), do expect us to hand over a pile of isk to pay for the losses that they suffered. If they decide to continue the war against us until we pay up, i have the feeling that the amount of compensation they seek shalll steadily climb as we inflict even greater losses upon them.
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Psionist
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Posted - 2005.06.25 10:40:00 -
[9]
Must be a ballsy merc corporation to lose a war then ask for money to replace all their toys you broke.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.06.25 10:41:00 -
[10]
I say name and shame. This merc corp sounds like a blight on an otherwise good group. I'm sure the other merc corps out there would like to know who's soiling their repuations.
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.25 11:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: H0ot
Originally by: Sweetpain If you declare war on A corp in an alliance you declare war on the alliance its not to hard to figure out that. that your war effort cost goes up by declaring a world war rather then a street war is not so hard to understand either.
You're missing the point. If corp A declares war on corp B, and corp B exploits high warcosts by joining an alliance then the system is flawed.
maybe i did hoot. but the poster i quoted pointed out it should be possible to declare war on A corp within an alliancem and wanted the result only war against that one corp and not the entire alliance. If this was possible then you would forfeit the intention and purpose with an alliance in the first place. However when that said, and alliance that welcom a new member allready engaged in a war is the very same as a war declaration from the alliance against the corps their new members are enganged with in this case offcourse the cost should be with the alliance, since the war was allrady underway when they decided to get involved. But that is not the same as the possibility to declare war on part of an alliance allready formed before any declarations where given.
maybe this message should be popping up when a new member is about to join the alliance "Corporation xxxxx is at state of war, by accepting this new member, a war declaration against corp xxxxx (or alliance xxxx ) have to be given, with the following cost of xxxxxxxx ISK. Are you sure you want to accept this new member?
And some like this "Corp xxxxx are part of an alliance, declaring war on them will put you in a state of war with the following corporations as well........ ......... ....... .......... ......... this will cost your war effort xxxxxx isk, are you sure you want to declare war on this alliance?
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Zaneg
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Posted - 2005.06.25 12:49:00 -
[12]
You dec on a mining corp to extort some easy isk then run home crying about alliance fee being too high ?
Poor you. EVIL victims.
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MooKids
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Posted - 2005.06.25 15:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Zaneg You dec on a mining corp to extort some easy isk then run home crying about alliance fee being too high ?
Poor you. EVIL victims.
How about a poster who completely missed the point of the original topic? -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Hast
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Posted - 2005.06.25 17:16:00 -
[14]
re wardecc the merc corp. get them to pay you for retracting. then use the newly aquired funds to war dec the ebil alliance
me = ebil genious
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Static Ga'lraith
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Posted - 2005.06.25 19:08:00 -
[15]
<3 Hast. -
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2005.06.26 00:41:00 -
[16]
join an alliance that is at war with them to play the same game
Everlasting Vendetta - EVE Search |
Ssoraszh Tzarszh
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Posted - 2005.06.26 11:12:00 -
[17]
I am somewhat confused though, I have been in a corp that had an official war going on and were allready talking with an alliance before it was declared on us. Now when the matter came to joining and we were accepted we were still at war and could not join the allaince due to that fact.
The game would not let us in, so this should not be possible to pull off. iirc the rules go like this: You would be able join an alliance that has an active war, you will be a target after joining imediatly You can leave an alliance that has an active war, but to flee the war the war must be surrendered afterwards You should not be able to join an alliance with an active war on your corp
This may have changed since i was involved in this but if someone is declared on, they should surrender, not be able to increase war costs tenfold. It sounds like they have found a way around the rules somehow, if i were you i would send a bugreport with your experiences to CCP.
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Trina Tron
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Posted - 2005.06.26 16:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/06/2005 21:30:40 Personally, you should be allowed to declare on A corp in an alliance. Then if it truely is an alliance, the alliance can help said corp at no additional war cost. Instead of Alliances being used as wallet protection.
An alliance is suppose to be about helping a friend when under attack. Not shielding them with isk sinks.
I dont like how huge allinces are protected by huge war cost I mean how is a person suppose to frigate raid allinces in yulai in a new corp. ;( --------------------------------------------------- + = me! |
Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2005.06.27 10:26:00 -
[19]
The system is way more exploitable than one may think.
Moving your war to alliance level is borderline, but the following is spot-on exploit-classed:
Someone wardecing you? Join alliance, they get your war. Then immediately leave alliance and you are no longer at war
One can only ponder the business opportunities of this. For example, I make my own one-man alliance and offer: "war-free" services to corps. For Xmil/month I get to rid em of all the wars they'll ever get
Surely there is something wrong with this...
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 27/06/2005 13:03:55
Originally by: Sweetpain maybe i did hoot. but the poster i quoted pointed out it should be possible to declare war on A corp within an alliancem and wanted the result only war against that one corp and not the entire alliance.
Oh cpt of comperhension, I said you should be able to declare on A corp an a alliance but if the alliance wants it can join in at no additional cost. Isn't that how an alliance is suppose to work. You come under attack we come help, etc... Not we protect you from war by extreamly high war costs.
If you look at the alliance page on the site you can see you have non-pvp corps forming alliances purely for the wallet protection.
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Schani Kratnorr
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:21:00 -
[21]
Down with concord I say. How can an organisation that is supposed to uphold the "law" be allowed to legitimize inter-corp warfare, and prosper from it?
Concord claims that these "fees" go towards covering paperwork, yet they allow low level AI's to do their dirty work, while they use the money to throw lawish parties (or so the rumors say...) -- "I am an expert in not caring. The trick is to stop giving a rat's ass about anyone else and start thinking about what YOU want, what YOU diserve, what the world ows YOU!" - Bender |
MooKids
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Posted - 2005.06.28 04:14:00 -
[22]
SCHANI LIVES! -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.06.28 05:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Down with concord I say. How can an organisation that is supposed to uphold the "law" be allowed to legitimize inter-corp warfare, and prosper from it?
And the law is that inter-corp warfare is legal. Perhaps you mean "justice" or "fairness", which is no where near the same as law.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Darkside101
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Posted - 2005.06.28 11:07:00 -
[24]
Well dude, i have been both in a corp that has joined an alliance while in war and been at war with several corps that have joined alliances and all i can say is that its very hard to find a perfect solution to this problem.
The cost for corps going to war with alliances is high but since most alliances live in 0.0 i dont see your problem, you can still war with them there if you want.
Are you saying here and now that you would fight a whole alliance if the costs were lower? I still dont think that you have the numbers to solve your dilema, but you could always ask them and see if they would give you a free war, and test your skill, you never know
Also, they are already at war if your costs are 100 mil, so just ask whoever it is they are at wwar with if you can join them and get your free war that way.
Finaly, i do like the balls of the merc corp for asking for compensation, classy lads, real classy tho TBH i dont see you problem here, tell them they can come get it and give them what there asking for
yarr
DS101 |
Soul Dancer
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Posted - 2005.06.29 12:24:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Soul Dancer on 29/06/2005 12:24:41 tbh i agree that the system is flawed
if corp A war decs corp B, and corp B has aplied to join an allaince, if said alliance should accept corp B with their war, then isnt the alliance accepting the war and making the war between Corp B and the Alliance Mutual.
so shoulden Corp B only pay the war fee for Corp A and not the alliance since corp A isnt agreeing to the war but the alliance are?
this may be off topic so soz
just my 2 cent
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Budmeister
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Posted - 2005.06.29 15:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akialoa This is posted by my alt, because i dont wish for the corp in question to be flamed (nor do i for that matter), i just think that this is rather amusing.
Backstory.... My corp declared war or industrial corp got some kills and demanded some isk and we'd cancel the war (fair enough). The industrial corp hires some mercs to 'take care' of us, this goes a bit wrong as our corp inflicts substantially greater losses on the merc corp than we suffer (we did only lose 1 crow to them). The industrial corp then decides to join an IGA, which puts up our war cost from a paltry 2mil p/w to 100mil p/w, being poor pvp'ers in a small corp we cant cover this for too long, so we dont bother paying for the war against the alliance. The corp CEO then recieves this eve-mail.
"Thank You For Retracting your War with Our Clients
Now comes to the Matter Of our Compensation
Please Contact me When You Are Ready TO Discuss This FurTher
Thanks IN Advance Name removed to protect identity"
A merc corp hired to inflict damages then asks from compensation from the peeps who they dec'd to pay for their losses, i think someone needs to go back to the drawing board.
And the fact we only retracted, coz we couldn't afford the 100mil war fee for more than a few weeks.
Thought i'd share this experience, and see what others think about this 'behaviour'.
So you tried to extort and then got extorted? I don't see the problem personally if you are better then the merc corp then do a mutual dec on them and then pulverise them. This whole thing by your admission started beacause you tried to pick on what you saw as a weak corp - how do you know they weren't already in negotiations with the IGA before you decalared?
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.29 15:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Budmeister hi im an alt
Congrats on completely missing the point of this thread.
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Budmeister
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Posted - 2005.06.29 16:47:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Budmeister on 29/06/2005 16:48:34
Originally by: DrunkenOne Congrats on misquoting me.
Might have missed the point of the thread by your definition, perhaps you missed mine? Perhaps instead the thread is pointless?
Did you also notice that the thread was initiated by an alt? Same reason he quotes is why I'm using one...
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Barakobama
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Posted - 2005.06.29 18:28:00 -
[29]
So you tried to exploit a weak mining/production corp, and they found a way around it?
"Move along, these aren't the droids you're looking for" would be the quote for me.
Find someone else to pick on. Here's a thought. Try someone who is actually a challenge. Earn your isk. (for once)
I have no sympathy, and if you were a "Carebear" there would be no end to the derision over you "whining".
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.06.29 18:56:00 -
[30]
Hiding in alliances = lame -- Dark Shikari: POS Consultant!
Want your POS to make money like mine do? I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50 million a day in profit--each! Just call me up--no ubermoons required! |
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