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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
756
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
The most common reason people do not explore outside of high-security space is the price and risk posed by attribute implants. Most people have 60 to 100m in their head at any given time. This makes the GÇ£pipe dreamGÇ¥ of flying a 8m isk Rifter into the unknown impractical. I sit in station for weeks at a time in my +5 implants as itGÇÖs not worth the risk to undockGǪ CCP has effectively created a system that rewards players for not playing their game. When people stop playing EVE and start playing skill training online, corporations crumble, alliances soon after, and people leave the game.
I can think of dozens of times when folks in Huzzah Federation needed help on a project, but the majorities of our players were in hi-sec grinding 2700sp/hour and could not participate. Players including myself eventually left the null-security organizations as the value of SP per hour exceeded the value of working with other players.
EVE veterans reach a point where it is more beneficial to sit AFK in Jita 4-4. 23/7 training 2700sp/hr. than it is to interact with fellow pilots.
Remove SP implants and there will be no reason to stay docked for months at a time, CCP should incentivize undocking and exploring, it is in the best interest of EVE as a community.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3330
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
I PVP with +5s. Scrubs. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1493
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems the smart thing to do would be to keep a clone with cheaper implant in a station near by.
You can have, what, 5 clones? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7070
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
People who are too risk averse to risk a couple of +4s will just find some other excuse to be risk averse if you remove them. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
715
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reducing the rate at which people can learn new skills to try different parts of the game makes for bad gameplay, lower subscriptions and poor customer relations.
CCPs "You should specialise" only works if you know what you want to specialise in. |
Nightshade Mary
Sarz'na Khumatari The Unthinkables
12
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not sure if the OP is a troll or not..
More value to sitting in a station gathering skill points?
If it is an ISK issue, why not put cheap implants in your adventurous clone and keep the +5s for the time when you can't play and are stuck in station anyway?
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1174
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nightshade Mary wrote:Not sure if the OP is a troll or not..
More value to sitting in a station gathering skill points?
If it is an ISK issue, why not put cheap implants in your adventurous clone and keep the +5s for the time when you can't play and are stuck in station anyway?
It's Tom Gerard. Basically everything he ever says can be dismissed as trolling. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
756
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nightshade Mary wrote:Not sure if the OP is a troll or not..
More value to sitting in a station gathering skill points?
If it is an ISK issue, why not put cheap implants in your adventurous clone and keep the +5s for the time when you can't play and are stuck in station anyway?
It is not an ISK issue, you can't buy SP with ISK, and you can get ISK without ever undocking... therefore SP is vastly more valuable than ISK.
When you look at the "value" of a character it is entirely about his SP, his wallet is meaningless. The "winners" of EVE are those people closest to the 2700sp/hr. pin.
CCP rewards me with the highest possible SP accrual because I don't undock.
Seems like this flies in the face of the expected Risk v Reward. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Nightshade Mary
Sarz'na Khumatari The Unthinkables
12
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Nightshade Mary wrote:Not sure if the OP is a troll or not..
More value to sitting in a station gathering skill points?
If it is an ISK issue, why not put cheap implants in your adventurous clone and keep the +5s for the time when you can't play and are stuck in station anyway?
It is not an ISK issue, you can't buy SP with ISK, and you can get ISK without ever undocking... therefore SP is vastly more valuable than ISK. When you look at the "value" of a character it is entirely about his SP, his wallet is meaningless. The "winners" of EVE are those people closest to the 2700sp/hr. pin. CCP rewards me with the highest possible SP accrual because I don't undock. Seems like this flies in the face of the expected Risk v Reward.
You can buy SP with ISK, there's a whole forum section dedicated to it. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
756
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nightshade Mary wrote:
You can buy SP with ISK, there's a whole forum section dedicated to it.
You mean you can buy Scumbags for ISK, its a refuse heap the majority of the characters have a corrupted history one way or another, very few people want to invest in another man's filth.
SP/Hour is the name of the game. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1177
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Not to mention that if it's not an ISK issue, you can just keep a couple of spare sets of +5's in your medical clone station, ready to pop in as soon as you get podded. It is very much an ISK issue, as everything in this game boils down to ISK, or to fun, or some combination of the two.
In this case, what you have is some people who dont want to risk their fancy implants because of the cost. This is fine, as they have just made a calculation as to what is best for them, as a player.
I fly around with an inexpensive pod because I derive my enjoyment from other aspects of the game, and FAST AS POSSIBLE SP gain is not that. Hell, fast as possible ISK gain is not that. |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
211
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:People who are too risk averse to risk a couple of +4s will just find some other excuse to be risk averse if you remove them.
This. I also had a long time corp mate emorage from EVE because it was stopping him from "having a life." He moved on to playing pokemon all day instead. Hey, as a dude that lives in lowsec, you should read my idea on how to "fix" it... in Blog format, complete with a spreadsheet! http://3xxxd.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-to-buff-lowsec.html |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1594
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tom Gerard is the archetypal troll. Mane 614
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7071
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Nightshade Mary wrote:Not sure if the OP is a troll or not..
More value to sitting in a station gathering skill points?
If it is an ISK issue, why not put cheap implants in your adventurous clone and keep the +5s for the time when you can't play and are stuck in station anyway?
It is not an ISK issue, you can't buy SP with ISK, and you can get ISK without ever undocking... therefore SP is vastly more valuable than ISK. When you look at the "value" of a character it is entirely about his SP, his wallet is meaningless. The "winners" of EVE are those people closest to the 2700sp/hr. pin. CCP rewards me with the highest possible SP accrual because I don't undock. Seems like this flies in the face of the expected Risk v Reward.
9/10 deliciously fallacious.
Let's see how long it takes people to spot the 2 easy ones and then the 2 subtle ones. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7071
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Tom Gerard is the archetypal troll.
He's a lot cleverer and more subtle than people give him credit for. His OPs are always worth reading. They're like the Zen koans of EVE. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Nalha Saldana
Syneptics Inc. AL3XAND3R.
644
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
What is this? Serious discussions in a gerard post? Outrageous! |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1177
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Tom Gerard is the archetypal troll. He's a lot cleverer and more subtle than people give him credit for. His OPs are always worth reading. They're like the Zen koans of EVE.
He's the best at what he does... |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
6
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Posted - 2013.01.16 15:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
As a new player I got two +1s from doing the tutorial missions, combat ones from memory.
Then a +3 from a random christmas gift from CCP, which apparently is worth about 40 million.
And a couple of +2s I bought for about 3 million each.
All up I have about 300 million ISK in ores and whatnot. 700k cash.
To replace what I have would be about 10% of my total worth.
Which could be seen as a disincentive, as even if I take a shuttle into dangerous territory I still carry about 50 mill risk.
I'm not sure on Jump Clones, and whether I could even use one yet. But they do sound like a solution if using one doesn't mean you lose your implants.
At this stage, my implants are worth more than my best ship. A Retriever. And I have cheapish implants.
So I agree with the OP about implants being a bit of a disincentive to exploring the wilds of space, but from the new end of the playerbase rather than the older playerbase.
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Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
8
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Posted - 2013.01.16 15:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
OP does kind of have a point.. losing a half billion implants is painful, and slowing down already slow skill training can be annoying. I wouldn't really say remove them, I mean, they are a reward to work towards, but you really can't say that they don't discourage risk a bit more. In fact, its pretty impossible to realistically state that they don't. Some people will always find a reason to avoid risk, yeah, but its human nature to be less willing to take risks as the consequences become greater. Kind of a tough subject to think about. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7080
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Posted - 2013.01.16 15:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:As a new player I got two +1s from doing the tutorial missions, combat ones from memory.
Then a +3 from a random christmas gift from CCP, which apparently is worth about 40 million.
And a couple of +2s I bought for about 3 million each.
All up I have about 300 million ISK in ores and whatnot. 700k cash.
To replace what implants I have would be about 10% of my total worth.
Which could be seen as a disincentive, as even if I take a shuttle into dangerous territory I still carry about 50 mill risk.
I'm not sure on Jump Clones, and whether I could even use one yet. But they do sound like a solution if using one doesn't mean you lose your implants.
At this stage, my implants are worth more than my best ship. A Retriever. And I have cheapish implants.
So I agree with the OP about implants being a bit of a disincentive to exploring the wilds of space, but from the new end of the playerbase rather than the older playerbase.
To be able to use Jump Clones, train the Infomorph Psychology skill. Each skill level = +1 extra jump clone you can have
When you create a jump clone, it has no implants. Once created at a station, you can jump into it from any other station in EVE. Once you're in your "empty" JC, you can add implants to it, and your old clone you left behind now becomes a jump clone. You can jump once every 24 hours.
A common ploy is to put a +4 primary/+3 secondary implant into a "PvP" jump clone, meaning that you'll get 120SP/hr less than when you're in a full +5 set clone, but you'll only be risking ~30M worth of implants. So if you fancy a weekend of weekend PvP shennanigans, jump into your cheap PvP clone on friday night, violence boats until Sunday evening, then jump back into your "safe" clone for the week. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
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Zol Interbottom
Nanotrasen Inc
124
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Posted - 2013.01.16 15:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have 1 30k charisma implant, specialization is for fools, back to pew pew mining trading |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1013
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Posted - 2013.01.16 15:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
You could remove implants, and replace with a legal attribute boosters. With a reduced cost being that it's a consumable means less risk if flying with it active. |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
6
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Posted - 2013.01.16 15:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thanks Malcanis.
You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.
Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.
Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.
Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.
But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain. |
iskflakes
284
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Posted - 2013.01.16 15:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Why would anybody PVP without high grade slaves and an 8% armor implant? - |
Mhax Arthie
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
I agree that implants is a major pita. Is so big that actually I dont even use them anymore as I'm constantly smuggling stuff from null to hi sec and roaming null with implants is just stupid. Losing multiple sets of implants on daily basis, even beta ones, is bad for business/wallet. But tbh, I don't even care that it takes hours or even year more than usual to train skills. at least I'm feeling free. |
Serptimis
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
123
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Why would anybody PVP without high grade slaves and an 8% armor implant? Because then everyone would be winning at EVE. |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
347
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
I PvP with +4's I also suicide jump my self around when need be I also don't care about "optimal training speed" and all that junk.
There are also corps that'll let you joint just to get jump clones, or if you don't like that idea a rorqual will do the job too.
Ultimately if your excuse not to PvP is removed, you'll just find another excuse. |
Lord Xeix
Karl XII's Dragoner Apocalypse Now.
0
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
I agree cause I'm in that position I got several +4 implants and dying with those plugged in would be a massive loss. I don't make hundreds of mil / week so just a single +4 is very large sum of money for me. I would very much enjoy going out to low sec and pvp/ninja mine/whatever just for the rush of knowing that I could be killed anytime or get away with fine rewards
But I also need to progress in my skills. If I had super good core, gunnery, spaceship cmd, etc maybe I wouldn't care very much about not having implants all the time to progress as fast as possible. Sure I could use JC but I would need high standings and who plays for more than 4hrs? Switching every 24hr is too slow, you would want to switch once, pvp, switch again and log out right? Which would make JC pointless unless you just use them to travel very fast...
tldr: remove implants and let everyone from king to peansant train at an equal rate, and pvp shall flourish! |
Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Wouldn't it be easier and more logical to just reduce the standings requirements for jump clones.
You could make it reasonable around 4 or maybe 3.
Hell, you could just do away with standings requirement and let you have jump clones anywhere.
Then people could explore/pvp for a day without having to worry about losing their implants. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby" |
March rabbit
Aliastra
481
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
thanks for funny thread |
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