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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vince Snetterton
238
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
When a single +5 would buy me 3 Assault Frig hulls, something is out of whack. Unfortunately, the price of both the +5 implant and the hull are market-driven, so little can be done about that.
What bothers me more is the fact that my med clone costs as much as a AF hull, so getting podded hurts doubly so. And keeping your med clone up to date is a fundamental part of the game.
If CCP looked at lowering med clone prices, I think that would encourage more PvP activity. |
Scrindle Kavees
Vengeful Swan
49
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 16:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
I always PvP with either +5s and full 5% hardwirings or pirate implant sets and full 5% hardwirings; I don't believe your comments about it not being worth the risk to undock in a +5 set.
Granted 0.0 makes it more of a risk to fly implanted, however I don't think that is the major contributing reason for high sec players being reluctant to enter it.
Jump clones exist for a reason. |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
347
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lord Xeix wrote:just for the rush of knowing that I could be killed anytime or get away with fine rewards
You know that rush will be greatly reduced if the potential loss is greatly reduced right? |
psycho freak
Snuff Box
243
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
Huzzah fed nuff said tbh my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k
nop cant find it |
Generals4
Liandri Covenant
1703
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
I say we remove 0.0 to see attribute implants catch on fire. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7087
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Thanks Malcanis.
You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.
Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.
Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.
Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.
But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain.
The error lies in assuming that skillpoints are the only form of advancement that matters. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Generals4
Liandri Covenant
1703
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:When a single +5 would buy me 3 Assault Frig hulls, something is out of whack. Unfortunately, the price of both the +5 implant and the hull are market-driven, so little can be done about that.
What bothers me more is the fact that my med clone costs as much as a AF hull, so getting podded hurts doubly so. And keeping your med clone up to date is a fundamental part of the game.
If CCP looked at lowering med clone prices, I think that would encourage more PvP activity.
Actually with implants it's not necessarily true considering implants require both LP and Isk to be purchased in LP stores. A +5 implant requires 65mill isk and LP. It's quite clear that regardless of the market people would never sell them at less than 65 million a piece. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7087
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Why would anybody PVP without high grade slaves and an 8% armor implant?
Because I'm a good caldari and I shield tank. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Aston Martin DB5
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.01.16 17:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Seems the smart thing to do would be to keep a clone with cheaper implant in a station near by.
You can have, what, 5 clones?
Increases the time to finish a FREAKING skill.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3367
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Posted - 2013.01.16 17:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Thanks Malcanis.
You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.
Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.
Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.
Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.
But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain. The error lies in assuming that skillpoints are the only form of advancement that matters.
Indeed, people get WAY too hung up on skill point accrual.
Gentlemen, you really need to ask yourself why you play EvE.
Is it to have fun, adventures, and generally be highly entertained for your time spent? ...or is it to acquire skill points... a dull set of numbers that lets you get into more ships (that you sit around in being bored because to risk it might slow down your boring skill point accumulation)?
Seriously, stop worrying about skill point acquisition. Start enjoying yourself.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1826
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Posted - 2013.01.16 17:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Err, idk about implants, but medical clone price scaling is a bit ******** honestly, Eve is the only game that punishes players for being loyal to the game. Playing Eve 100% Risk Free! |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1498
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Nightshade Mary wrote:Not sure if the OP is a troll or not..
More value to sitting in a station gathering skill points?
If it is an ISK issue, why not put cheap implants in your adventurous clone and keep the +5s for the time when you can't play and are stuck in station anyway?
It is not an ISK issue, you can't buy SP with ISK, and you can get ISK without ever undocking... therefore SP is vastly more valuable than ISK. When you look at the "value" of a character it is entirely about his SP, his wallet is meaningless. The "winners" of EVE are those people closest to the 2700sp/hr. pin. CCP rewards me with the highest possible SP accrual because I don't undock. Seems like this flies in the face of the expected Risk v Reward. But you were the one that wrote the OP.
You were the one that said you wont undock because of the cost of your implants.
If it wasn't an issue of isk, you'd undock.
Sounds to me like the one guy was on the money. Take away whatever he says is holding him back and he'll find another excuse.
Oh wait, it's not he isk, it's the SP/h.
I don't have a problem with undocking with mine.
Would it help if I purchased you a few sets? |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
6
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Posted - 2013.01.16 17:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Thanks Malcanis.
You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.
Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.
Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.
Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.
But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain. The error lies in assuming that skillpoints are the only form of advancement that matters.
Malcanis,
As a form of advancement, a high score if you will, a few in EVE come to mind; skillpoints, isk, kills, security status, standings and there are probably more. For these forums it would be post counts and Likes if you will. And of course votes for an election are a measure.
To me, skills are becoming more apparent as items that take a lot of time to get. So implants are looming as more important as an aid to achieving skill based goals. And having implants in, increases the risk I carry around. Especially as I'm not a great PvPer.
Jump Clones would seem to be the answer when I get around to having 8 Standing with the NPC corporations or have friends with clone vats.
That may take a while.
So for now, for me, avoiding risk is the wisest course of action. If not the funnest. However mining does allow a lot of forumming, silver linings and all that.
Just wanted to walk through some of my thinking on the issue. Thanks for your response by the way.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3367
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
To look at it another way, which is the better use of your time?
Flying a frigate and having a heck of a good time doing it...
or flying a cruiser and being afraid to undock because it might slow down your advancement to the next bigger ship to sit around in? To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3367
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Thanks Malcanis.
You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.
Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.
Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.
Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.
But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain. The error lies in assuming that skillpoints are the only form of advancement that matters. Malcanis, As a form of advancement, a high score if you will, a few in EVE come to mind; skillpoints, isk, kills, security status, standings and there are probably more. For these forums it would be post counts and Likes if you will. And of course votes for an election are a measure. To me, skills are becoming more apparent as items that take a lot of time to get. So implants are looming as more important as an aid to achieving skill based goals. And having implants in, increases the risk I carry around. Especially as I'm not a great PvPer. Jump Clones would seem to be the answer when I get around to having 8 Standing with the NPC corporations or have friends with clone vats. That may take a while. So for now, for me, avoiding risk is the wisest course of action. If not the funnest. However mining does allow a lot of forumming, silver linings and all that. Just wanted to walk through some of my thinking on the issue. Thanks for your response by the way.
You might consider that there are several corps around that you can join for a day to get your jump clones (because they have the necessary high standings). To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
7
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Posted - 2013.01.16 17:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Thanks for the tip Ranger 1. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3367
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Thanks for the tip Ranger 1. No worries.
I don't have a link for you handy (I'm at work) but a search should turn one up... or if someone has a corp name handy to drop in here several people might benefit.
(Occasionally they "advertise" themselves in the various forums.) To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1146
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Whether we agree with it or not, for some other people, implant and clone upgrade costs ARE barriers to pvp.
It's not for me, I lost a clone with a Crystal set and some price hardwirings (PASHANS, that's right, im rich biatch), but I had fun doing it, and generally I'm in the "don't risk what you don't want to lose" camp.
BUT, EVE is a game built around space ships and space ships require character skills to fly, and the current implant scheme forces poorer players to choose between getting to the next new exciting level of space ships OR going out and having some fun screwing with people.
Ditto the Clone Upgrades (a seperate but related issue to implants), While i don't mind paying the 30+ mil I have to on a couple characters, It does get tedious in a hot fight where you might die multiple times in bubbles (and get podded or have to consider self destructing to get back to a station for another ship and thus back into the fight).
I stopped flying Dictors because after a big fight in Delve where I had to go reship several times I realized I'd spent 200 mil on damn clone upgrades alone and STILL lost skill points (Jump Cal freaking 5 of all things) because the last time I rushed back out to fight I forget to upgrade :( .
I don't know how to fix it (or even if "fixing it" would not cause bigger problems), but I can say without hesitation, the current clone and implant mechanics ARE big potential barriers to PVP, and barriers to pvp should be low in a game about PVP. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
301
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
I agree roll learning implants in just like with learning skills. Then maybe for fun give the pirate implants a negative attribute score, so that they drop you down to where they are now. Power at a price basically. I could see it being a lot more fun this way as then people would be more likely to pvp without worrying about pod loss.
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
273
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Posted - 2013.01.16 19:04:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ha ha implants. As a medium SP space bum, I consider everything above +3 to be a scam. The clone mechanics just suck, they make no sense, and indeed punish loyal players and reward having alts. It only makes sense from a business standpoint (sink + subs), not from a gameplay viewpoint. Remember those games where you lost X percentage of your wealth when you died? It always was an incentive for me to turn credits into assets ASAP in those type of games. Just as with most level 4 skills taking a day and just one bit, I'm to much of a critical consumer to be lured into buying expensive implants or grind them with LP. |
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Nick Asir
Triple Helix Corporation
0
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Posted - 2013.01.16 19:06:00 -
[51] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:You could remove implants, and replace with a legal attribute boosters. With a reduced cost being that it's a consumable means less risk if flying with it active.
Why not this? Sounds like a great idea to me. Would make smuggling a much bigger part of the game. |
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
The most valuable attribute of a char is the amount of skill points it has. Learning implants is the number one thing you can do to increase its value. Over all learning implants are a hassle, and yes they help to prevent pvp. Jump clones with a 24 hour cool-down are also a hassle.
Removing learning implants would be a good move, it will encourage more people to pvp. How many more ? probably none really knows, but I know of at least one.
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Nytak
Serpent Securities Inc. The Methodical Alliance
22
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Posted - 2013.01.16 19:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Isn't this one of the issues addressed by Jump Clones? I keep the implants I'm comfortable spending cash on in one clone.. If I'm going someplace where I may very well get podded, well, then I hop into my 0 implant clone and have my fun worry free. |
Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
142
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Posted - 2013.01.16 20:06:00 -
[54] - Quote
Nick Asir wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:You could remove implants, and replace with a legal attribute boosters. With a reduced cost being that it's a consumable means less risk if flying with it active. Why not this? Sounds like a great idea to me. Would make smuggling a much bigger part of the game.
because then you would end up with lots of people holed up in their stations with piles of boosters to ensure they get the max sp all the time. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
442
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 20:18:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:When a single +5 would buy me 3 Assault Frig hulls, something is out of whack. Unfortunately, the price of both the +5 implant and the hull are market-driven, so little can be done about that. LP store cost (65000LP, 65M isk) is a pretty hard floor for the +5 implants, it isn't entirely market driven. http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
1445
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 20:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
It's already easy and cheap to have a 'throwaway' jump clone with basic implants for venturing into situations where you may be podded, so that wouldn't really affect anything. "The nice thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive." ~Kenneth Williams |
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
295
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 20:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Or how about CCP doesn't remove attribute implants, you get yourself infomorph psychology I (shouldn't take too long with dem +5s ya gots), then proceed to head into null sec with your clone that doesn't have implants.
It's silly that you won't undock because your scared to lose implants then ask for them to be taken out of the game. Take the implants out of your head instead and solve you're own problem.
Either way, removing implants won't "set null on fire". Removing implants will make Eve a more forgiving environment, where you have less to lose when you put it on the line. |
rofflesausage
State War Academy Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 20:49:00 -
[58] - Quote
One of the issues with implants is that they don't expire - a lot of people will stick them in their head and are paranoid about losing them. Having an entire clone dedicated to having +5's in that you jump to when not about is such a crappy mechanic. There is no risk, just reward.
Make implants cheaper, but give them a finite lifetime.
What's a +4 these days? 20M? For infinite use if you don't PvP? Insane.
Make them 5M, but last 30 days.
Not only does it put the thought of them being already lost in peoples mind, it means ISK is moved around for them more often. Oh, and it's another reason for people to to login.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
572
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 21:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Thanks Malcanis.
You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.
Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.
Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.
Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.
But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain. The error lies in assuming that skillpoints are the only form of advancement that matters. Indeed, people get WAY too hung up on skill point accrual. Gentlemen, you really need to ask yourself why you play EvE. Is it to have fun, adventures, and generally be highly entertained for your time spent? ...or is it to acquire skill points... a dull set of numbers that lets you get into more ships (that you sit around in being bored because to risk it might slow down your boring skill point accumulation)? Seriously, stop worrying about skill point acquisition. Start enjoying yourself. Oddly enough for some of us expanding the range of ships we can fly and effectively use is a big part of the fun of the game. For that group, of which I am a part, SP accrual is something that is often worth considering. You are right in that the number of SP itself is meaningless, but what it enables is far from meaningless for many. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3220
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 21:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Iosue wrote:Nick Asir wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:You could remove implants, and replace with a legal attribute boosters. With a reduced cost being that it's a consumable means less risk if flying with it active. Why not this? Sounds like a great idea to me. Would make smuggling a much bigger part of the game. because then you would end up with lots of people holed up in their stations with piles of boosters to ensure they get the max sp all the time. Sounds like players successfully interacting with the game mechanics. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
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