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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc. Astraeaus
33
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Posted - 2013.01.19 08:02:00 -
[2221] - Quote
Our corp lives full time in Anoikis and have for going on 2 years now...
Give us the Modular POS or GIVE US A WORKABLE POS.
But... may I make a suggestion?
Toss the current POS and give us Waking in Sleeper Stations... let us take them over and live in THEM! Sleeper Missiles... Sleeper Lazors... dare I say it... Sleeper Ships? OH HELL YEA!!
Either that or FIX THE GODS DAMNED POS!
'nough said. TurAmarth ElRandir HBHI VP & Salvage Operations Director Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/ |
Slaktoid
Aperture Harmonics K162
19
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Posted - 2013.01.19 09:14:00 -
[2222] - Quote
POS revamp - Because we're worth it =) |
Balder Verdandi
Czerka. WHYS0 Expendable
109
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Posted - 2013.01.19 09:15:00 -
[2223] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote: From page 15:
"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "
From page 99:
"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"
"Seagull: The reason there's a GÇ£noGÇ¥ to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."
Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
Let's break this down into a couple smaller ideas first because as a former programmer I know it can't all be done at once ..... but if you look both inside the box, and outside it, you can find solutions to most of the problems quickly.
In-Game Art and its effects on the game
Why are you guys trying to re-invent the wheel? You have literally TONS of in-game art you could use, albeit with some changes in color and appearance, which is already optimized for gameplay that won't effect it, and that would be more than effective in setting up a modular POS:
- Wolf Burgan's Hideout could be used as a small tower.
- Fort Kumar could be a large tower.
- Serpentis Hideout could be a medium tower/modular POS.
- Sansha's Hub as an example of another style of modular POS.
- Sansha's Occupied Mining Colony could be useful for moon mining operations, and it could serve as a large modular POS.
- Elohim X-Instinct LADAR site could also be another modular POS that you could upgrade over time.
- Forgotten Frontier Quarantine Outpost would be a useful example of a small/medium modular POS.
Security and Access on modular towers/POS's
Think corporate outpost using alliance outposts as the primer.
This could be addressed by simply having the same initernal mechanics of an outpost or station with individual hangars and a corp hangar with it's seven slots applied to the modular tower/POS. Since the backend mechanics for this are already built into the game, you simply tailor them around a modular tower and treat it like an outpost except that it cannot be "taken over" like an outpost. And if you need more room, it's modular; you simply add it.
The biggest issue we have with managing towers is how the access rights are setup. If you could lose the drop down lists (example: "Based at ..... ") and simply make a checkbox like you have for titles (example: "View" checked=you can see items but cannot take, "Take" checked = "View" and can place/remove items and automatically checks "View")
Having individual hangars, and/or allowing them, based on say new players to a WH corp, would eliminate the concerns 99% of us have about corporate theft and would solve the problems with inventory and loot when it comes to who owns what.
Gameplay
Towers should continue to provide what they offer now in the form of bonuses/defense/etc., and other than revamping some of the code on how they operate, they should continue to provide the services they offer now.
And since they are modular, adding and removing sections to a modular tower would be just like adding/removing from an outpost.
Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"! Player Owned Station fix dated back to 2006!
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Balder Verdandi
Czerka. WHYS0 Expendable
109
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Posted - 2013.01.19 09:25:00 -
[2224] - Quote
Jacabon Mere wrote:your quoting irrelevant stuff.
CCP Unifex. (Page 37)
It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes.
CCP Soundwave (Page 38)
On top of that, Soundwave added, the POS system by itself would only affect a small portion of the community.
The objections are to those. Any defence for them when it is quite clear that a lot of people have vested interests?
This is the problem and I agree with Jacabon; the idea that "this only affects a small percentage of people" doesn't make sense because where does all the research come from? While it does affect the small number of tower managers, overall it affects anyone in a corporation that has at least one tower ...... and these numbers are huge.
Personally I would love to provide a second/third/fourth tower available to my corp mates so that they could run their own research jobs, or make their own ammo/drones/ships, or do some invention. However, the current security and access schema prevents me from doing so because there isn't enough granular control over access to corporate hangars or allowing jobs to be run from personal hangars. If there was any focus that needed to be done to how a tower functions, this is where you should start as my previous post covering art and gameplay covers everything but this. Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"! Player Owned Station fix dated back to 2006!
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Scout Esterhazy
Lucid Dreamers Tribal Band
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 09:28:00 -
[2225] - Quote
Modular POS would be great. Not that I expect to see anything for a while, I know how game dev is, it's a long arduous process. But still, progress of any type is always appreciated. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
236
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Posted - 2013.01.19 09:55:00 -
[2226] - Quote
Going back to argument of poses affecting only small part of comunity
Apart from WH's which should be obviuos that it touched ALL WH DWELLERS.
Look at this topic from different perspective - WHY THE HELL did you reiterated FW? It was only small part of comunity, right? So why bother?
BECAUSE you made it better andthat followed with increase in usage of FW.
Now go back to what You wanted to do with POS'es - personal POSes? MINI POSes for small corps? Ability to expand without removing the proevious? Ability to put POSES anywhere and multiple POS on grid? Heck, even wild idea from grascale: POS Warp Drive...
Now let me tell you something - implement these things, and you will get a HUGGGGGEEEE increase in POS usage from all over the EVE:
- players will place their SOLO POS - small corps will try to place "covert" footholds in enemy teritory by placeing poses in some deep spots - players will go with emergent gameplay like putting poses near gates as chokepoints for incoming fleets (if that will be available) - players will build wonderfull strongholds with those - where lack of forcefield would actually make teraing them down a chalange and not tedious work
Just think how many players then would be affected - new ways of fight with poses (how many people today POS BASH? Thousands!!!! New ways of player housing, New ways of defending your home system.... and so on and so forth....
Go get You **** together and think Big on this - the whole Community of EVE will be very greatfull. Not only the enablers.
Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Tornisk
Exploration Frontier inc
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 09:59:00 -
[2227] - Quote
I would be a shame if CCP would'nt improve POSes and WH side of the game ! |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
24
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Posted - 2013.01.19 10:04:00 -
[2228] - Quote
I just really wanted to +1 this thread because I believe Two Step is spot on here. I don't believe he would have started this thread unless he felt after the Winter Summit there was a possibility POS reworking or iteration would not happen in a timeframe the playerbase would be happy with. As such, I hope the devs are paying very, very close attention to this thread because I am a part of that small portion of the community. |
Anuki Peime
Die rot-weiss-roten Piloten
1
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Posted - 2013.01.19 10:16:00 -
[2229] - Quote
POSes need a revamp, do it Sorry for my bad english, spelling errors are for general amusement, if you find a grammar error you can keep it !!!
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mr roadkill
Jazz Associates Azgoths of Kria
5
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Posted - 2013.01.19 10:28:00 -
[2230] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
Would a little things/thousand cuts approach work with this or do we need a clear picture of the final product.
What are the mechanics people find the most bad about the current pos and start to include them as seen in several of the most recent 'expansions' .
I'm not trying to high jack this thread here but if everyone posted their top hate about the way pos currently work surely something could be done to work around it even if the code is 8 years old or whatever. Small changes could be released as part of the next couple of expansions or something until the art/modelling team have time to commit to this.
For example - lots of people complain about security at poses - introduce a personal hanger module that uses the corp hanger model, when modules/ships are in here they are marked as yours and not visible to other players much like your PI in a customs office. If the module is destroyed all items in the hanger still spill out as normal (and before someone starts trolling and saying looks like someones had stuff nicked recently - Yes i have ok ;))
Changes to poses doesn't have to be a complete change of the system in my opinion just a mechanics change. Once all the teams have free time you can then do EXODUS 2.0. |
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Syr Dread
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
10
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Posted - 2013.01.19 10:37:00 -
[2231] - Quote
Just wanted to say here's another 3 accounts with two of them living in w-space and the third in training and heading there shortly... and i had my share of POS annoyance in my old corp setting them up in w-space and managing them... it is hell and really annoying atm...
Wont rehash all them arguments for how POSes are kaputt right now. So i'll leave it at that. |
mr roadkill
Jazz Associates Azgoths of Kria
5
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Posted - 2013.01.19 10:40:00 -
[2232] - Quote
Syr Dread wrote: Wont rehash all them arguments for how POSes are kaputt right now. So i'll leave it at that.
I agree as many points have been made before - Ill change my above statement to - why cant CCP come up with a list of little things and improve them |
Dayjavu
The Archaeus Initiative
2
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Posted - 2013.01.19 10:44:00 -
[2233] - Quote
Do not abandon the pos revamp! |
bowlofmilk
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.01.19 11:01:00 -
[2234] - Quote
CCP i will love you forever if you revamp POSES
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Radgette
EVE Irn Bru Distribution
13
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Posted - 2013.01.19 11:28:00 -
[2235] - Quote
please for the love of god do something about the incesant clicking required to run a pos industry setup.
I have my own personal pos and it's a complete ball ache running it so much so i probably lose loads of isk because half the time i cba to log in and switch stuff over in time.
even just starting by streamlining the silo's make them bigger and generic for reactions so you only need 1 or 2 instead of daisy chains.
basically my biggest problem with pos is with industry clicking as a whole :P
the 3 second online/offline was a step in the right direction tho. keep doing little things every patch |
StarStryder
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 11:31:00 -
[2236] - Quote
If I read the CSM minutes correctly, CCP's problem is that they'd almost need to dedicate an entire release to the POS improvements and they didn't want to do this sort of "one feature" release anymore.
So, here's the sort of thing I'd like to see over three releases:
1) Security revamp. The ability to select titles (including Director) when setting access to POS modules. Corp hangars in SMAs. The ability to run personal research jobs in corp labs. Better options on forcefield access (standings based, limit to titles etc.)
2) Ease of use. Remote management or even just remote status dashboards would be a blessing. The ability of fill and empty silos without the offline/online faff. The ability to layout move and anchor a group of structures in one go.
3) Look and feel. Modular POSes. Make it happen.
This should let you FIX THE 10 YEAR OLD CRAP FEST whilst still doing other stuff with each release.
And please don't say it only affects a small number of people. If every POS manager in the game gave up managing POSes then everything except highsec would be impossible to do. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
385
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Posted - 2013.01.19 11:34:00 -
[2237] - Quote
I support this. The notion that revamp will only affect POS managers doesn't realy work since it's not just interface overhaul that may be (or not, depends) needed. Whoever lives or seeks shelter using POS have to deal with not just interface, but mechanics (including internal security). Then it's maybe worth it to look at the way POS industry and defences work.
All in all, aspects of using POS are many, and it's not just what buttons POS manager have to press, so to speak, even if this one should be looked at as well. |
Ziggyjig Dohvahk
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 11:41:00 -
[2238] - Quote
The POS revamp was one of the things I was most really looking forward to.
Please CCP, if you do anything in 2013, please do this. |
Celestis Kudzu
Western Digital Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2013.01.19 11:49:00 -
[2239] - Quote
+1 on modular pos, and normal invention/production ui |
Luc Chastot
Moira. Villore Accords
182
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Posted - 2013.01.19 12:36:00 -
[2240] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote: - small corps will try to place "covert" footholds in enemy teritory by placeing poses in some deep spots
It would need to be carefully balanced, but I like the idea of allowing the FW factions to place footholds on enemy territory. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
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Taya Farrago
AntCorp
2
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Posted - 2013.01.19 12:40:00 -
[2241] - Quote
Jacabon Mere wrote: your quoting irrelevant stuff.
CCP Unifex. (Page 37)
It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes.
CCP Soundwave (Page 38)
On top of that, Soundwave added, the POS system by itself would only affect a small portion of the community.
The objections are to those. Any defence for them when it is quite clear that a lot of people have vested interests?
This is very true, in no way do even the current POSes affect only a small portion of the player. Added to that, new modular POS's would affect way more people as (hearing from everybody ive talked to about this) everybody wants their own starbase.
I truly believe that a new modular POS will bring many new players to Eve if this is done with care. As said before (dont remember who said it), I too experience that most of the new players ask the same question: How can i get my own base? When these new players are introduced with the current POS system they are dissapointed and let the issue go.
I hope CCP will realize that revamping the POS system is actually of great benefit in many ways.
Taya |
ProDeka
AimBot Team
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 12:51:00 -
[2242] - Quote
W-Space for POS-changes!
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Kara Kardan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
6
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Posted - 2013.01.19 12:58:00 -
[2243] - Quote
I have decided i will do the whole process from a new player standpoint and start at 0 and setup a pos. I work with them daily but i want to see from the bottom up how they work now, to add more constructive criticism. Maybe there will be a tale of my time with that. |
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
90
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Posted - 2013.01.19 13:06:00 -
[2244] - Quote
+1 The rework of POS's is long overdue |
Docta Rivers
Pocket Proprietors
2
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Posted - 2013.01.19 13:10:00 -
[2245] - Quote
+1 Please, for the love of Bob |
Crazy Janey
Pocket Proprietors
1
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Posted - 2013.01.19 13:12:00 -
[2246] - Quote
Dudes, this is WAAAAAAAYYYYYY overdue. POS life sucks big hairy objects. |
Nosler Richter
The Red Circle Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 13:14:00 -
[2247] - Quote
Didn't we have riots the last time CCP ignored us like this?
+1 for POS fix |
Farnfax
Bob and Doug Storage Company
12
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Posted - 2013.01.19 13:26:00 -
[2248] - Quote
Support the thread and the issue of modular pos or as a minimum pos improvement. As a T2 producer, the use of public production facilities is not adequate which mandates a POS, but some of the design issues with the current POS system mean that a number of painful work arounds are needed that consume needless energy and time. Do not believe we are a small portion of the community. |
Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2013.01.19 13:28:00 -
[2249] - Quote
I do not personally work with POSes. I know that the interface should be fixed. Some of the modular stuff seems interesting.
There was a much more interesting idea posted over a year ago. That was in space housing. A home ship which people could setup in a system and use as a base. The base would be semi mobile (perhaps a jump drive only). It would disappear completely when it's owner/owners logged off. Otherwise it would be hidden except in certain circumstances. It would allow individuals and small groups to have a home base to try living on the unused parts of null sec. It could also help support wormhole residents. I liked this idea. Over time it became clear that CCP had not even noticed their own idea. They could revive the idea and slowly build it up to replace the current POS system.
Summary: I don't personally use POSes. I believe the POS system has problems. I would like to see personal bases which could be developed over time into modular POSes. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3878
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Posted - 2013.01.19 13:34:00 -
[2250] - Quote
+1 I, too, am a small portion of the community. Currently own and operate one Large "Methstar" in lowsec for booster production, and would love to set up more POSes as well. But they are a pain in the ass to work with. One is fine enough for the time being, thank you. I'm looking forward to seeing how we can improve them ASAP. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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