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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
229
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Posted - 2013.01.18 22:29:00 -
[241] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Actually, now that mining is more profitable than missioning, I've not been an ISK faucet for about 6 months. Now I just mine, maintaining the current equilibrium of price stability.
In the case that you're actually a miner you are not an ISK faucet, but the rest of the statement still stands. You are harvesting materials that impact the game economy and the only really effective tool left for people to interfere with that is non-consensual decs. It doesn't matter if you stay docked for the entire war, the reality is that you're given a choice - whether or not you want to let people interfere with your gameplay. You choose to let them - that is your problem, not a problem with the mechanics. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
223
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:30:00 -
[242] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: The truth is, people like him need to be driven from EVE.
He needs to be wardecced and ganked util he gets it through his thick skull that he does not get to avoid PvP. That mentality is a cancer that does not need to be propigated throughout the rest of the community.
The truth is that CCP is not going to allow people like me to be driven from EVE because we are too much of their revenue. Perhaps rather than trying to figure out how to screw CCP out of much needed revenue by trying to drive people like me out of the game, you should go look for some people that want to PVP to have fun PVPing.
Wait, you are claiming 1bil a week and you are paying real money for all 4 accounts still? "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:31:00 -
[243] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote: I don't think it's us needing to understand that nowhere in Eve is safe, only some places are safER.
Well, inside station, long enough to add a skill to the training queue, is pretty safe.
And, maybe you missed the point that when we are at war, we rarely log in, and never undock. That would indicate that we have a pretty good understanding that no place in EVE, outside of a station, is safe. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1590
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:31:00 -
[244] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: The truth is, people like him need to be driven from EVE.
He needs to be wardecced and ganked util he gets it through his thick skull that he does not get to avoid PvP. That mentality is a cancer that does not need to be propigated throughout the rest of the community.
The truth is that CCP is not going to allow people like me to be driven from EVE because we are too much of their revenue. Perhaps rather than trying to figure out how to screw CCP out of much needed revenue by trying to drive people like me out of the game, you should go look for some people that want to PVP to have fun PVPing. No you're not, you're a extremely small minority.
Because most of us understand the game we're playing, you do not.
PS: Let me say this again. I. DO. NOT. PVP.
I'm just not a *****. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:33:00 -
[245] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:
Wait, you are claiming 1bil a week and you are paying real money for all 4 accounts still?
No. I play with PLEX, which are bought from people that gave money to EVE to be able to get PLEX to sell to me. So, CCP is making the same revenue off me whether I directly give them the money, or someone else gives them to money that pays for my subscription.
If I were not playing, less PLEX demand, lower prices of PLEX, fewer people buying PLEX, less revenue for CCP. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
223
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:33:00 -
[246] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: I don't think it's us needing to understand that nowhere in Eve is safe, only some places are safER.
Well, inside station, long enough to add a skill to the training queue, is pretty safe. And, maybe you missed the point that when we are at war, we rarely log in, and never undock. That would indicate that we have a pretty good understanding that no place in EVE, outside of a station, is safe.
Even inside a station can be unsafe, if you interact with people. Just not a matter of combat. You being docked up during a wardec and online is providing that intel alone. That might make you safe from ship harm, but can be damaging in others. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:36:00 -
[247] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:[ No you're not, you're a extremely small minority.
Because most of us understand the game we're playing, you do not.
PS: Let me say this again. I. DO. NOT. PVP.
I'm just not a *****.
If you do not PVP, then you are the same "small" minority that I am.
According to a presentation I saw a few years ago, CCP says that 80% of toons never show up as a killer on a kill mail. 80% is small minority? |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1590
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:38:00 -
[248] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I should be allowed to AFK mine with my 5 accounts in high sec, in my personal corporation, flooding the market with minerals, and impacting every other industrialist in EVE, and not have worry about PvP.
I think most industrialist would agree with me when I say you should biomass yourself and leave.
You make industrialists all across New Eden look bad, and we don't want you kind here; giving us a bad image.
Kindly go away please.
Or just join the NPC corp and shut up.
Oh wait... You're in an NPC corp. Duh!
GTFO. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
223
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:40:00 -
[249] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
Wait, you are claiming 1bil a week and you are paying real money for all 4 accounts still?
No. I play with PLEX, which are bought from people that gave money to EVE to be able to get PLEX to sell to me. So, CCP is making the same revenue off me whether I directly give them the money, or someone else gives them to money that pays for my subscription. If I were not playing, less PLEX demand, lower prices of PLEX, fewer people buying PLEX, less revenue for CCP.
So if you did not sell that plex, CCP would not get any revenue from the people spending their real money on plex? I see.
You sir, are playing the game for free, which si a feature, and by all means allowed, but also does not mean it's leverage to use against anyone.
Any rate, you have just as much right to play the game as anyone else, and are equally able to be wardecced.
Sorry.
Oh wait, npc corps make you immune.
I guess you can just be ganked then. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:41:00 -
[250] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:I think most industrialist would agree with me when I say you should biomass yourself and leave.
Explain.
Other than kicking your donkey in this thread, explain.
How does it bother industrialists that I discourage war dec's on industrialists, by ensuring the war dec'er NEVER gets a kill when they dec us? |
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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1590
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:42:00 -
[251] - Quote
Tarawa's corp history you ask?
Why: Pator Tech School [PTS] from 2009.10.13 13:49 to this day
And don't pull the, I'm an NPC corp alt poster crap. I'm not buying it.
You're an NPC corp main who's afraid to be in a player run corp cause they can be war decced.
Either that or, Post with your main or STFU. |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
230
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:46:00 -
[252] - Quote
Just going to throw this little tidbit in here:
Kristoffer Touborg (CCP Soundwave) wrote:We've been talking a lot about Eve as a hard game, and Eve might not be for everyone. But if we lose people to other games, hopefully it's because they don't like what Eve is, and not because our UI is stupid and unintuitive. I don't think there's any shame in losing players for the right reasons. Source
You don't like that EVE is a PVP game and that people can interfere with your game. Since that is what EVE is at its core, then I would say it's safe to say that you don't like what EVE is. That, according to the quote, means that it is OK by CCP that you leave.
So make your choice. Deal with the fact that you're not immune to other players, or leave. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:46:00 -
[253] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote: So if you did not sell that plex, CCP would not get any revenue from the people spending their real money on plex? I see.
I'll assume you meant that if I did not buy the PLEX.
You are correct. If no one was buying PLEX so that they could play for free, then no one would be able to sell PLEX for ISK in game. Then, no one would buy PLEX with real money, to sell for ISK.
Murk Paradox wrote: You sir, are playing the game for free, which si a feature, and by all means allowed, but also does not mean it's leverage to use against anyone.
No more than any other person that results in CCP receiving money because they play the game. The real power comes from numbers. Too many carebears drop, CCP will take notie and change the mechanic that is causing them to drop.
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Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
223
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:47:00 -
[254] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:I think most industrialist would agree with me when I say you should biomass yourself and leave.
Explain. Other than kicking your donkey in this thread, explain. How does it bother industrialists that I discourage war dec's on industrialists, by ensuring the war dec'er NEVER gets a kill when they dec us?
They can't dec you. You're in a npc corp. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
230
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:48:00 -
[255] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:They can't dec you. You're in a npc corp.
That's an obvious alt. He's stated he does everything he can to avoid decs. Why would be so stupid as to post in a thread with that position on his main? I would have already paid to dec him, as would many others. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
223
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:50:00 -
[256] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: So if you did not sell that plex, CCP would not get any revenue from the people spending their real money on plex? I see.
I'll assume you meant that if I did not buy the PLEX. You are correct. If no one was buying PLEX so that they could play for free, then no one would be able to sell PLEX for ISK in game. Then, no one would buy PLEX with real money, to sell for ISK. Murk Paradox wrote: You sir, are playing the game for free, which si a feature, and by all means allowed, but also does not mean it's leverage to use against anyone.
No more than any other person that results in CCP receiving money because they play the game. The real power comes from numbers. Too many carebears drop, CCP will take notie and change the mechanic that is causing them to drop.
No, I understood what you said. You said you are helping CCP by selling isk. You aren't. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:50:00 -
[257] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: Either that or, Post with your main or STFU.
No thanks. False Dichotomy.
I can post on my forum alt, and not STFU. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1590
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:50:00 -
[258] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:[ No you're not, you're a extremely small minority.
Because most of us understand the game we're playing, you do not.
PS: Let me say this again. I. DO. NOT. PVP.
I'm just not a *****. If you do not PVP, then you are the same "small" minority that I am. According to a presentation I saw a few years ago, CCP says that 80% of toons never show up as a killer on a kill mail. 80% is small minority? No, and you know exactly what I mean by you being an extremely small minority.
I don't think you're a stupid person.
I do think you need to post with your main or STFU Mr. NPC corp guy who's never been a member of a player run corporation, crying about wardecs and pvp. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
326
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:53:00 -
[259] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:@ LHA Tarawa
What would make you want to fight the aggressors in the war dec? Not have to, want to.
I realize that this isn't addressed to me, but I will pass along the line of thinking that was passed to me when I was a newbie:
This question is only looking at the game. Players who safe up during wardecs are looking at the metagame: The attackers want ship combat. The defenders don't. The attackers want to impose their playstyle on the defenders. They're denying the defenders the way they want to play, so the defenders deny them the way they want to play. It's a cold-shoulder tactic, or if you prefer, a blue-ball tactic. It extends to nobody saying a word in Local or private chat, or mail, or any other medium that the deccers can access.
The offense is ship PVP, because that's what the deccer prefers. The defense is social PVP, because that's what the defender prefers. The standoff is built in to the clash of playstyles, with neither side interested in giving ground, and so 90% of the time the result, as hoped for by the defenders, is a completely uneventful wardec that goes away in a week.
That's why so few mercenaries get hired, incidentally: If you're paying ISK so that the people who are denying you want you want get what they want, which probably means that the dec goes on longer than it otherwise would, what sense does that make? Why would you do that?
...
Also note that I'm not arguing that this is always exclusively true, and that willingness to PVP or fear of loss is not also a concern. In fact, socials will prefer social PVP to ship PVP precisely because they're more comfortable and familiar with it, and more confident in the outcome. They might find out that they like (or at least, don't mind) ship PVP, but it will either be by surprise or by dipping their toe in when less is at stake. That's one reason why I like the recent Crimewatch changes in low sec. You can go there and learn without taking a standing hit, and without risking more than the ship you're in. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
223
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:57:00 -
[260] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:They can't dec you. You're in a npc corp. That's an obvious alt. He's stated he does everything he can to avoid decs. Why would be so stupid as to post in a thread with that position on his main? I would have already paid to dec him, as would many others.
I'm a firm believer of seeing who I talk to, if that's his alt.. well, to me that's his only toon, and will be treated as such. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:57:00 -
[261] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:Just going to throw this little tidbit in here: Kristoffer Touborg (CCP Soundwave) wrote:We've been talking a lot about Eve as a hard game, and Eve might not be for everyone. But if we lose people to other games, hopefully it's because they don't like what Eve is, and not because our UI is stupid and unintuitive. I don't think there's any shame in losing players for the right reasons. SourceYou don't like that EVE is a PVP game and that people can interfere with your game. Since that is what EVE is at its core, then I would say it's safe to say that you don't like what EVE is. That, according to the quote, means that it is OK by CCP that you leave. So make your choice. Deal with the fact that you're not immune to other players, or leave.
I think you're reading WAY too much into the comment. He says RIGHT THERE in the quote what the "EVE is" that he's talking about.
EVE is a hard game. If it is hard because it has complex game mechanics, and people leave because they don't like complex game mechanics, okay. If it is hard because the UI sucks, than that is not a good reason to lose people.
They aren't going to get rid of the complex game mechanics just to keep people. They will try to fix the UI to keep people.
Find me a quote from CCP where they say that they want all the carebears to quit, and I'll never log in again.
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Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
223
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:00:00 -
[262] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:Just going to throw this little tidbit in here: Kristoffer Touborg (CCP Soundwave) wrote:We've been talking a lot about Eve as a hard game, and Eve might not be for everyone. But if we lose people to other games, hopefully it's because they don't like what Eve is, and not because our UI is stupid and unintuitive. I don't think there's any shame in losing players for the right reasons. SourceYou don't like that EVE is a PVP game and that people can interfere with your game. Since that is what EVE is at its core, then I would say it's safe to say that you don't like what EVE is. That, according to the quote, means that it is OK by CCP that you leave. So make your choice. Deal with the fact that you're not immune to other players, or leave. I think you're reading WAY too much into the comment. He says RIGHT THERE in the quote what the "EVE is" that he's talking about. EVE is a hard game. If it is hard because it has complex game mechanics, and people leave because they don't like complex game mechanics, okay. If it is hard because the UI sucks, than that is not a good reason to lose people. They aren't going to get rid of the complex game mechanics just to keep people. They will try to fix the UI to keep people. Find me a quote from CCP where they say that they want all the carebears to quit, and I'll never log in again.
We've been talking a lot about Eve as a hard game, and Eve might not be for everyone. But if we lose people to other games, hopefully it's because they don't like what Eve is, and not because our UI is stupid and unintuitive. I don't think there's any shame in losing players for the right reasons.
"I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
326
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:03:00 -
[263] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:I think most industrialist would agree with me when I say you should biomass yourself and leave.
Explain. Other than kicking your donkey in this thread, explain. How does it bother industrialists that I discourage war dec's on industrialists, by ensuring the war dec'er NEVER gets a kill when they dec us?
Industrialists build ships and modules. If no ships blow up, there's no market for what they build.
This is one reason why there's so much conversation in the minutes about how bad wardecs are in high sec: the whole point is to engage people in ship PVP, to blow up ships and keep the engines of the economy running, and that's not what's happening.
Notwithstanding my post above, the defenders' tactics are not the only reason for that. A great many deccers declare war on a corp and then camp some trade hub for a few hours that week, too. Then all that's required is for the defending corp to not do something dumb like send a freighter to a trade hub, and they can do their thing more or less unmolested for most of the period of the dec. That's not the outcome CCP wants, either. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:06:00 -
[264] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:@ LHA Tarawa
What would make you want to fight the aggressors in the war dec? Not have to, want to. I realize that this isn't addressed to me, but I will pass along the line of thinking that was passed to me when I was a newbie: This question is only looking at the game. Players who safe up during wardecs are looking at the metagame: The attackers want ship combat. The defenders don't. The attackers want to impose their playstyle on the defenders. They're denying the defenders the way they want to play, so the defenders deny them the way they want to play.
Close.
I'm not trying to prevent them form having ANY PVP. They are MORE than welcome to go PVP against other players that are interested in PVP. I'm simply trying to avoid giving them reason to extend the war dec against me.
War dec means I'm not earning ISK, and I enjoy earning ISK.
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Merouk Baas
441
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:12:00 -
[265] - Quote
While I'm for PVP and don't agree with sitting in a station, because some fun can be had shooting your enemies, you guys are in an argument about which people are worthy of being CCP's customers, and honestly CCP is the only entity that should have that kind of argument (internally).
You guys are customers outside a coffee shop arguing who's worthy and who isn't, to go inside and get some coffee.
Based on whether or not you use cup sleeves or spoons to mix the sugar in.
Seriously. You have $5 for coffee? Go in.
Everybody pays the subscription one way or another. Even if they just sit on the forums trolling, they are valid welcome customers. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:13:00 -
[266] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote: Industrialists build ships and modules. If no ships blow up, there's no market for what they build.
Fortunately, there are lots of people that are willing to PVP against other players that want to PVP.
If the only source of boom was from PVPers not killing carebears, then there wouldn't be much boom.
Dersen Lowery wrote: This is one reason why there's so much conversation in the minutes about how bad wardecs are in high sec: the whole point is to engage people in ship PVP, to blow up ships and keep the engines of the economy running, and that's not what's happening.
Mineral prices tell me there is AMPLE boom occurring.
Dersen Lowery wrote: Notwithstanding my post above, the defenders' tactics are not the only reason for that. A great many deccers declare war on a corp and then camp some trade hub for a few hours that week, too. Then all that's required is for the defending corp to not do something dumb like send a freighter to a trade hub, and they can do their thing more or less unmolested for most of the period of the dec. That's not the outcome CCP wants, either.
Lots of luck.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:15:00 -
[267] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:While I'm for PVP and don't agree with sitting in a station, because some fun can be had shooting your enemies, you guys are in an argument about which people are worthy of being CCP's customers, and honestly CCP is the only entity that should have that kind of argument (internally).
You guys are customers outside a coffee shop arguing who's worthy and who isn't, to go inside and get some coffee.
Based on whether or not you use cup sleeves or spoons to mix the sugar in.
Seriously. You have $5 for coffee? Go in.
It is a one-sided argument.
I say there is room in the game for all of us. They can play the way they want, and I can play the way I want. They are the ones saying that everyone has to play their way, or GTFO. |
Helgrind Wolf
WaKE Inc
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:17:00 -
[268] - Quote
I'm weak Hi Sec fodder and I hate this. This would ruin the concept of eve. If you are weak, get help or quit. |
Merouk Baas
441
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:17:00 -
[269] - Quote
No I'm saying that the arguing in this last page is stupid because none of us is CCP. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
594
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 23:24:00 -
[270] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:No I'm saying that the arguing in this last page is stupid because none of us is CCP. CCP has demonstrated that they listen to the feedback of the players and take their concerns into consideration in varying degrees. Ironically this whole discussion came along as a result of them interacting with the CSM on this very topic. Yes, the decision comes down to them ultimately deciding what if anything they want to do, but it would be unwise for any of their customer to not want to be heard while those decisions are being made. |
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