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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1657
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Posted - 2013.01.17 10:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2013/01/why-ccp-is-wrong-about-modular-poses.html
CCP's excuse for not tackling POSes are three-fold. First, that it would take too long, require too much developer time: most of the company's resources for an entire year. Two, that not enough people use them. And three, the one they won't mention, because this is the real reason they won't touch a POS revamp: they don't think it will drive new subscribers.
More than enough people will talk about the first and second reasons. I want to talk about the third. I believe a modular POS revamp would drive subscriber numbers through the roof. Why I think this is true is for far different reason than most people might imagine. Not because of industry or mechanics and because of failings in the current POS system. Nope. A revamp will drive new subscribers because of aesthetics.
That's f-ing crazy, most of you are probably thinking. Who gives a **** about aesthetics? A lot of us fly space potatoes, for godssake.
Look at other MMOGs. Think of player housing. Modular POSes would be EVE's version of unique, player-owned, player-designed housing.
I envision modular POSes like LEGOGäó. You can slap one POS module onto another, eventually building out unique configurations.
There is little in the way of personalization in EVE. Sure, you can fit your ship out the way you want, but it's really only visible to the builder, not to anybody else (until you die and you show up on a killmail.) But with POSes, it becomes a building exercise, something inventive. No matter the intial costs and the monthly fuel costs, some people, many people, are going to build monuments to their imaginations. It seems silly, but these types of features, these sorts of mechanics that lend themselves to the creative spirit, this is what drives certain types of people to certain types of games.
Sure, you're eventually going to get a giant space ***** orbiting some moon somewhere, but that's a small price to pay for building something the players can utilize creatively.
If CCP thinks that a modular POS revamp is not going to drive new subscribers to the game, then they simply aren't thinking outside of the box, outside of the industrial applications, the generic wormhole uses, the mechanics. They aren't thinking about the marketing possibilities. Small cities in space, cities that the players themselves get to build and own. These things that ultimately reflect a player's personality, how is that not an easy sell? Amarr Militia - Fweddit - http://fweddit.com Poetic Discourse - http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud.
162
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Posted - 2013.01.17 10:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
You know what would drive subs up? Glass bubbles with exotic dancers. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7116
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Posted - 2013.01.17 10:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Is there even any debate about this amongst the playerbase? Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1019
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Posted - 2013.01.17 10:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Not to mention POSs has a direct or indirect effect on almost every aspect of Eve. Though CCP prob hasn't changed, where "quick" money is all they care about at this point.
Malcanis wrote:Is there even any debate about this amongst the playerbase?
Not anymore since the playerbase has been for the most part behind it since 2006. It's just frustration by this point. |
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc Zero Hour Alliance
149
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Posted - 2013.01.17 10:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reading the minutes it surprised me how Unifex dismissed POS reworks as not benefitting enough players, while previously his creatives (cant find the quote but I think it was either Soundwave or Grayscale) said that "a pos is something everyone should want". And im sure that plenty of people would benefit of any change there to justify it.
I have a feeling that there's a different reason altogether. Maybe they're a bit fed with rehashing old code that they've been doing all of last year and want something fresh; and its clear that POS/corporate roles code are possibly an even bigger headache than Crimewatch was.
Quote:Small cities in space, cities that the players themselves get to build and own. These things that ultimately reflect a player's personality, how is that not an easy sell?
Quoted for truth. |
Mai Khumm
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
409
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Posted - 2013.01.17 10:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
I REALLY hope that they don't get blinded again by one thing and ignore the playerbase...
Incarna and the summer of rage 2013...
Enjoy FF10 everyone. (it might be the last one) *insert witty saying here* |
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
198
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Posted - 2013.01.17 10:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Even if CCP reworks player owned stations expect it to be horrid and wait 2 more years for a fix. |
John DaiSho
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
69
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Posted - 2013.01.17 11:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: And three, the one they won't mention, because this is the real reason they won't touch a POS revamp: they don't think it will drive new subscribers.
While I think that you are speculating a bit too much for my taste I cant do much more than still agreeing that modular POSes would be something that would attract a lot of players. A POS should be something every player wants, not an unfortunately necessary pain in the a.... |
Merouk Baas
432
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Posted - 2013.01.17 11:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
POSes don't benefit enough players because of the limits CCP placed on where we can put POSes, and the grind it takes for them to be available to the high-sec population. Which may have its purposes, but ultimately is how THEY designed the game.
Otherwise, their assessment is true. They'll get bigger numbers if they remodel a whole race's ship lines than if they remodel POSes. |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
293
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Posted - 2013.01.17 11:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
John DaiSho wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: And three, the one they won't mention, because this is the real reason they won't touch a POS revamp: they don't think it will drive new subscribers. While I think that you are speculating a bit too much for my taste I cant do much more than still agreeing that modular POSes would be something that would attract a lot of players. A POS should be something every player wants, not an unfortunately necessary pain in the a.... As far as attracting new players, the POS's they ahd proposed would be alot more "cinematic" in appearance, in that its more than a dildo in a bubble, it would be an ACTUAL structure, with presence and strength with the moon/planet/sun behind it, it would be a landmark, instead of just an obstacle. which would allow for some badass player/CCP trailer/videos of wars. especially if they made turrets part of the station that moved like on ships, so you end up with battleship style cannons firing of the side of a minmatar station into an enemy fleet.
because face it, people are attracted to what looks good, and a complete POS revamp would not only look good, but serve a much needed and important function in the game. |
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1608
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Posted - 2013.01.17 11:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
See also
See this two-step Dev blog http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/i-am-small-portion-of-community.html
Post into this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194625&find=unread
Thanks you for your time. It will only take a minute or 2 and this one is really important.
Thank you for your speedy article poetic
CCP really put their foot in it on this one, so much for GÇ£EnablersGÇ¥ & GÇ£InstigatorsGÇ¥.
They killed it before it made it out the door. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
295
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
So, aren't POS's already modular? Like last I checked I have about a dozen modules anchored at my POS.
Also, why is CCP saying not enough people use POS's? Everyone that lives in WH space uses them. I would imagine everyone in null uses a POS at minimum to use JB's/titan bridges.
Then again, perhaps if it is true that POS's aren't a big enough part of the majority of gamers eve experience, maybe POS's could be changed to where everyone will want one, and everyone will want to use one?
Quite often when I read about this modular POS stuff, the statements about POS's seem very illogical. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1659
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Very good post, I fully agree.
"Have you played EVE, you build these awesome starbases in it? Check out my screenshot, we built these!"
as opposed to the current
"Well yeah this stick with a bubble is our pride and joy, the homebase of our corp... no you can't dock there and it looks just like 140622 others"
I feel that CCP totally underestimates the profit potential of attached emotional value of building sky palaces.
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1659
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:POSes don't benefit enough players because of the limits CCP placed on where we can put POSes, and the grind it takes for them to be available to the high-sec population. Which may have its purposes, but ultimately is how THEY designed the game.
Otherwise, their assessment is true. They'll get bigger numbers if they remodel a whole race's ship lines than if they remodel POSes.
I strongly believe that Lego POSes would attract many hiseccers to low/null/wormholes to build them.
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |
Finarfin
Immunity Syndrome
14
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Please revamp POS. The playerbase is begging for it for years now. :( |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
13580
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's a short sighted decision. Thought we had moved on from these things, hay ho.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Kai Sheia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Silk daShocka wrote:So, aren't POS's already modular? Like last I checked I have about a dozen modules anchored at my POS.
Also, why is CCP saying not enough people use POS's? Everyone that lives in WH space uses them. I would imagine everyone in null uses a POS at minimum to use JB's/titan bridges.
Then again, perhaps if it is true that POS's aren't a big enough part of the majority of gamers eve experience, maybe POS's could be changed to where everyone will want one, and everyone will want to use one?
Quite often when I read about this modular POS stuff, the statements about POS's seem very illogical.
I believe they mean "modular" in a more Tech-3 sort of sense, where its one structure with various interchangable bits connected to it and expanding from a core, rather than just a spike with various bubbles and gadgetry floating around it disconnectedly.
personally I think that holds some appeal as well. perhaps tweaking the system to make it a little easier to get into having/running/building one, and maybe make it so you can set it "public" so non-corp people could utilize what you've set up to some extent.
it would be neat if you could have NPC stations (like they are now) then renovate Outposts to be essentially player-built custom stations that could potentially be on par or even better than an NPC station... and re-do POS's to be sorta mini-outposts/stations, where you could rent out lab slots, manufacturing slots, processing services... something like that would have a lot of potential I think. it would be interesting to be able to "make a living" running a network of POS's in station-less systems or something, expanding the high sec research lab availability (at a price) and so on.
I don't mind their reviewing ship balancing though. I think some of that is sorely needed as well. going through everything like that just takes so much time and all, its a tough balance and I don't envy them trying to manage it. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
423
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Is there even any debate about this amongst the playerbase?
You ever hear of the 'Flogging the Dead horse' threadnaught from the old forums.... it was an amazingly well thought out and produced idea about modular design POSs. The author even created models and showed how they would fit together.
It stayed on the main page of the suggestions forum for years. I forget how many posts we in it, but i do remember being post 1973 at one point.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Glasgow Dunlop
Gigaverse The Imperial Senate
37
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Voice's of the masses will be herd, go to Jita Park Corner & Look for : I am a small portion of the community. I am a small portion of the community-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194625 |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1023
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Malcanis wrote:Is there even any debate about this amongst the playerbase? You ever hear of the 'Flogging the Dead horse' threadnaught from the old forums.... it was an amazingly well thought out and produced idea about modular design POSs. The author even created models and showed how they would fit together. It stayed on the main page of the suggestions forum for years. I forget how many posts we in it, but i do remember being post 1973 at one point.
http://eve-search.com/thread/391410-0/page/1
And the post count was 2389 before the forum got archived, also I'm almost positive Malc is well aware of the thread. |
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Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
53
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
They should not make POSes too much like stations though. I am using POS daily, but I would be against being able to dock there.
Overall pretty good post, Poetic. |
Nair Alderau
EVE University Ivy League
20
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
I want my POS.
I want my POS.
I want my POS.
Also, support Two Step's thread about this: Support the POS, we are more than you think, CCP.
|
Skippermonkey
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1743
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Mayhem wrote:They should not make POSes too much like stations though. I am using POS daily, but I would be against being able to dock there.
Overall pretty good post, Poetic.
People who live in wormholes should be able to kick back on their space couch and stare at a locked door too
equality for all! COME AT ME BRO
I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7140
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 13:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jack Mayhem wrote:They should not make POSes too much like stations though. I am using POS daily, but I would be against being able to dock there.
Overall pretty good post, Poetic.
Go live in a wormhole for a week and tell us how you feel about sharing a hangar with the rest of your corp. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
8
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
MMO devs get the best fun.
They get to make the real stuff, we players get to rebuild what they originally made. Ships and so on.
The best housing concept I've ever seen in an MMO is Ultima Online's housing, you get a patch of land, and build your own design.
Perhaps if we ask CCP if they love making stuff for the game, wouldn't players feel the same.
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Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
53
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jack Mayhem wrote:They should not make POSes too much like stations though. I am using POS daily, but I would be against being able to dock there.
Overall pretty good post, Poetic. Go live in a wormhole for a week and tell us how you feel about sharing a hangar with the rest of your corp.
I have never said they should not implement modular POS or different hangars for members. I am simply stating it should not be dockable. I am sure it's possible to code similar fitting option and similar hangar option to station, but with ship actually staying outside.
Or are you actually proposing same unlimited storage etc. in POSes as in stations? That's nonsense. |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
149
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
If they could integrate POS into the New Player Experience I'm sure sub numbers would go up. [PROPOSAL] INGAME ADVERTS FOR PLAYERS |
Nemo deBlanc
Phoibe Enterprises Project Wildfire
28
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
I find it hilariously hypocritical that the theme of these minutes is making the lives of "instigators" and "enablers" easier, and then they go on to say nobody cares about a POS revamp.
CCP, do you think all of the games instigators live in high sec and never touch POS's? Oh wait, even highsec bears have indy POS's. And what do you think the enablers deal with every single ******* day? Oh yeah, POS's. Hell, you even have an entire subset of players living in the ~2500 wormhole systems you created in Apocrypha, which you're now realizing was one of the best expansions you've ever made. I guess none of them care about POS's?
With all due respect Unifex, pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes. |
Aenea Dustshine
Immunity Syndrome
0
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Nemo deBlanc wrote:I find it hilariously hypocritical that the theme of these minutes is making the lives of "instigators" and "enablers" easier, and then they go on to say nobody cares about a POS revamp.
CCP, do you think all of the games instigators live in high sec and never touch POS's? Oh wait, even highsec bears have indy POS's. And what do you think the enablers deal with every single ******* day? Oh yeah, POS's. Hell, you even have an entire subset of players living in the ~2500 wormhole systems you created in Apocrypha, which you're now realizing was one of the best expansions you've ever made. I guess none of them care about POS's?
With all due respect Unifex, pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes.
This so much. All this very recent enablers and instigators talk seem like a cruel joke. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
112
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:They killed it before it made it out the door.
Nothing gets out of "The Door"...
(Which in itself was one of the primary complaints about Incarna). |
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