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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
346
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Posted - 2013.01.26 00:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
I heard CCP is planning on removing pirate battleships and hookers
P.S. the problem with invention right now is not a clickfest, its if it was changed to be fun, then few people would play eve just to have fun inventing, unless CCP invested incredible resources to make it a whole new game changing thing. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
45
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Posted - 2013.01.26 01:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hrm... I heard from someone else that they are reducing data cores from research agents, but not removing it. I would really like to get word from CCP on this issue as there seems to be a lot of confusion. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby" |
Vala Theed
Bluefin Tuna
0
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Posted - 2013.01.27 06:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Datacores don't really matter as far as I'm concerned because invented Tech 2 BPC's have such limited runs on them for modules and munitions it isn't really worth all of the trouble you have to go through to produce them and with all the additional manufactuing materials the final product as well. Invented Tech 2 BPC's best case senario is 19 licenced runs. Scaning down sites to get decrypters is time consuming and there are so many people doing it that there again you are better off spending that time doing something else to make ISK. Making Tech 2 ship BPC's is another story. There may be a little value in those if you want to bother finding all the materials to biuld them. Your better off just selling the Datacores and finding other ways to make ISK and buy what Tech 2 things you need. Right? |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1094
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Posted - 2013.01.27 06:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vala Theed wrote:Datacores don't really matter as far as I'm concerned because invented Tech 2 BPC's have such limited runs on them for modules and munitions it isn't really worth all of the trouble you have to go through to produce them and with all the additional manufactuing materials the final product as well. Invented Tech 2 BPC's best case senario is 19 licenced runs. Scaning down sites to get decrypters is time consuming and there are so many people doing it that there again you are better off spending that time doing something else to make ISK. Making Tech 2 ship BPC's is another story. There may be a little value in those if you want to bother finding all the materials to biuld them. Your better off just selling the Datacores and finding other ways to make ISK and buy what Tech 2 things you need. Right?
Just keep telling yourself that.
I'll just sit over here in my paddling pool full of isk. (Not a swimming pool. Those belong to tech moon owners ) FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
795
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Posted - 2013.01.28 02:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
In the end it will simply further consolidate the T2 monopoly of the CCP's pet nullsec groups that were given T2 BPOs, nothing more.
Working as intended. EvE Forum Bingo |
Vala Theed
Bluefin Tuna
0
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Posted - 2013.01.29 17:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Just keep telling yourself that. )
When I finished with "Right?" at the end of my post I was fishing for information Steve. Sorry, I should have made that clear. I am by no means an expert, in fact, always seems like I know very little. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1103
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Posted - 2013.01.29 17:35:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vala Theed wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Just keep telling yourself that. ) When I finished with "Right?" at the end of my post I was fishing for information Steve. Sorry, Ishould have made that clear. I am by no means an expert, in fact, always seems like I know very little.
Ahh.
T2 manufacturing can be lucrative. It is, however, somewhat time consuming, requiring a whole bunch of skills, and a bunch of ISK outlay.
You pretty much need a POS to have the copy slots to copy blueprints. And if you have that, then you can get a reasonable number of invention slots too. It's one of those places where having alts makes sense, as a copy alt really doesn't take long to skill up, and only requires logging in once a day or less.
To do the invention, you'll need a bunch of skills. at least 2 science skills matching the ones for the datacores, and the skill for the data interface ([Race] Encryption Methods) You can get by with them at 1, but you're better off getting higher.
Once you have all of that, then you're talking about running invention jobs, repeatedly (about once an hour for module invention in a POS) of which around half will fail (can be adjusted. sometimes not worth it). The ones that succeed will have a limited number of runs (10 is normal for modules and ammo). These will take, normally, between 10 hours and 60 hours to produce completely.
The isk/hr that you can get out of them is on the order of 100k (for very common modules. as everyone makes them) to over a million isk/hr (uncommon. don't expect this to last. though it can happen in bursts) If you have all your alts trained for production, that's 30 odd slots you can fill. at 100k isk/hr, per month you're looking at around 2.1 billion per month profit. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
370
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Posted - 2013.01.29 19:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
This is hardly worth commenting on as most of my points have already been put across by others. But I must.
As Devswarm continues with its process of enabling the total domination of eve, by a group who's stated goal when they arrived here was to "ruin everyone elses game", we are looking at some pretty bad times IMO.
1. WTF does farming FW plexs have to do with the complicated process of T2 invention that leads to small scale T2 production?
Absolutely no logical relationship at all. It is just part of the plan to nerf high sec T2 production out of existance. Sure some FW noob can farm plexs and make lots of LP's for datacores...again WTF does that have to do with the many months my main(s) have invested in research and production skills? I mean really?
2. The Devswarm contingent of CCP have already stated that "we want to move all T2 production to nullsec."
Gee, I wonder who gave them that idea?
3. They have already stealth nerfed highsec exploration...can invention rates be far behind?
..and I am now plexing all my previous cash paying account save one, and only cause I paid for that one for a year. This crap keeps up and I am not gonna be here much longer. Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
84
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Posted - 2013.02.05 23:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Question.... I'm still showing research agents in the agent finder. What are their purpose now? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Orlacc
200
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Posted - 2013.02.06 05:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Don't know about anyone else, but I am still finding Datacores in Radar sites. |
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
159
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Posted - 2013.02.06 07:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Question.... I'm still showing research agents in the agent finder. What are their purpose now?
Data cores, just like always. Fewer than before they were added to FW and with a higher buyout cost, but they're still there. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
84
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Posted - 2013.02.06 12:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Question.... I'm still showing research agents in the agent finder. What are their purpose now? Data cores, just like always. Fewer than before they were added to FW and with a higher buyout cost, but they're still there.
Ok so its still possible to get passive income that way, but just not that much as it used to?
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Ujio Sendai
Reclamation Technologies Bioco Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
Yes, I've begun getting my datacores from some R&D agents now. From my perspective the slow income rate of them is just fine. I don't have the time to work the system extensively so the passive trickle of datacores helps people like me out tremendously. I hope they leave it as is and never get rid of the R&D income. |
Callduron
174
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
I find it odd that CCP is comfortable with wiping out an income that many of us sunk a lot of time into, presumably on a sh*t happens, learn2adapt philosophy but refuses to apply that same philosophy to T2 BPOs.
There's no justification for leaving some legacy content, all concentrated into the hands of superrich players giving them a massive advantage over anyone who joined the game more recently than 6 years ago.
I'd be fine with passive datacores going if it also saw the removal of T2 moneyprinting papers. |
Callduron
174
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Toku Jiang wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:In the end the ultimate goal is to further cement power in the hands of the chosen alliances with T2 BPOs. Clearly you don't know anything about T2 BPO's or T2 production.
Are you implying T2 BPOs don't allow you to make lots of money? If so I'd like you to meet Entity, T2 BPO owner and Eve item collector.
http://home.wanadoo.nl/ntt/eve/
He buys alliance tournment ships at 50 bill a pop just to pretty up his hangars. |
Ujio Sendai
Reclamation Technologies Bioco Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.02.06 15:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Callduron wrote:I find it odd that CCP is comfortable with wiping out an income that many of us sunk a lot of time into, presumably on a sh*t happens, learn2adapt philosophy but refuses to apply that same philosophy to T2 BPOs.
There's no justification for leaving some legacy content, all concentrated into the hands of superrich players giving them a massive advantage over anyone who joined the game more recently than 6 years ago.
I'd be fine with passive datacores going if it also saw the removal of T2 moneyprinting papers.
I haven't been playing for very long, but it doesn't take a vet to see that if the game designers' goal was to stave off saturation of T2 production one of the first things to do would be to get rid of a group of BPO's that would completely debunk the invention system that everyone else has to follow.
I'm not sure what percentage of the T2 market these BPO holders make up. However I've seen the profits a small corp can do with a steady production system with the current invention limitations, so I could only imagine the impact of having T2 BPO's at a corp's disposal. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1123
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 18:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ujio Sendai wrote:Callduron wrote:I find it odd that CCP is comfortable with wiping out an income that many of us sunk a lot of time into, presumably on a sh*t happens, learn2adapt philosophy but refuses to apply that same philosophy to T2 BPOs.
There's no justification for leaving some legacy content, all concentrated into the hands of superrich players giving them a massive advantage over anyone who joined the game more recently than 6 years ago.
I'd be fine with passive datacores going if it also saw the removal of T2 moneyprinting papers. I haven't been playing for very long, but it doesn't take a vet to see that if the game designers' goal was to stave off saturation of T2 production one of the first things to do would be to get rid of a group of BPO's that would completely debunk the invention system that everyone else has to follow. I'm not sure what percentage of the T2 market these BPO holders make up. However I've seen the profits a small corp can do with a steady production system with the current invention limitations, so I could only imagine the impact of having T2 BPO's at a corp's disposal.
https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187983359341899776 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187974205147578371 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187689926786162689 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187673447739039744 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187662223123021824 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187650582155235328 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187641806744330241 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187623701527805952 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187612733401874432 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187595069161869313 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187577793905831937 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187568163314073603 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187557952889163777 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187547623589294080 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187543802230210560 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187540468677083138 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187533801646338049 https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/187529733796413440
The stats are about a year old, but it's not like there are more T2 BPOs than there were then.
The issue is: T2 BPOs take the same length of time to manufacture from as T2 BPCs. and you can only install them in a single line. The only markets they can really distort are tiny ones. (like command ships) FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Ujio Sendai
Reclamation Technologies Bioco Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 18:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
^ Hmmm very interesting Steve... I guess if there's a stat someone is tracking it. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1137
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 21:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Toku Jiang wrote:So they want to remove the passive part of getting them even though we now have to pay isk for the cores? So one would have to assume that they will be killing off the Research Project Management skill and giving us those points back?
Man CCP is becoming a bunch of ******bags
They recently implemented a purchase price as research agent of 10k ISK per datacore you buy from your research agent. On top of that, have you seen the prices you now have to pay to get DCs from FW agents?!?!!? Seriously friggin' expensive. If DCs are moved to be available only thru FW agents I'll have no choice but to end my Industrial operations across my accounts; no way I'll be paying FW prices given the number of DCs I use on a monthly basis.
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1124
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 22:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Toku Jiang wrote:So they want to remove the passive part of getting them even though we now have to pay isk for the cores? So one would have to assume that they will be killing off the Research Project Management skill and giving us those points back?
Man CCP is becoming a bunch of ******bags They recently implemented a purchase price as research agent of 10k ISK per datacore you buy from your research agent. On top of that, have you seen the prices you now have to pay to get DCs from FW agents?!?!!? Seriously friggin' expensive. If DCs are moved to be available only thru FW agents I'll have no choice but to end my Industrial operations across my accounts; no way I'll be paying FW prices given the number of DCs I use on a monthly basis.
Uh, you mean around 100,000 isk each? which is a good conversion rate for LP (it's around the 1000 isk per lp mark.) FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 02:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
The passive isk argument was made up from the start. Invention has been a big flop because a lot of people fail to add properly. People cant take in the cost of datacores to produce a realistic value of the products they are making. CCP "Fixed" this by giving a easy way to "grind" cores.
A lot of us were "farming" cores, But even when they were 300k/unit we werent making tons of isk. I had about 17 chars doing this, and 5 accounts that were reserved just for doing production / research / cores.
((3 chars * 6 agents * 120rp/day) / 50)*300k = 12.96m so nearly 13 mil a day or about 395 mil a month.
With the changes now... ((3 chars * 6 agents * 120rp/day )/100)*(100k-10k)=1.94m so nearly 2 mil a day or about 59 mil a month.
To get 6 agents (before the standing chamges came through) required a LOT of time and isk to grind chars up to the standings to run your high quality l4 agents. RPM V was a big slog as well. It wasnt something you just decided to do. Even throwing isk at it, you were looking at a good 6 months to train 1 char on your account up to run those 6 agents. So investing 2 years of training time (with plexes or $$$) was costly. 2 years of training time so you can half-pay for an account that doesnt even have a combat char on it. If you were to try to slip in these R&D chars around a main then the timings were not realistic as you would take too much away from your main.
Should you do it now?... I would say no, but RPM 3 or 4 might be okay if your really needing to make that 50 mil a month. It will take you a month to pay back the skill!.
And then there are other considerations too, none of the l4 agents are grouped together closely at all, so prepare for a lot of travel.
The nerf seen me stop all but two of my accounts, so I guess ccp has done well. Shame that they allowed 1 grinder to make as many cores in one day as it took my whole account to make in a year.
Will they get rid of R&D agents now, Probably... Why?... I am sure they will say no one is using them. It should have been reworked, but R&D should have been the only source of cores, and a fun tree should have been put in for players, not a nerf.
Also, one guy earlier says he was making cores while his account was inactive, that's been fixed for years, so no he wasnt.
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Callduron
174
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Posted - 2013.02.07 02:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Thanks for the links to CCP Diagoras's tweets, Steve.
Just taking the first one.
CCP Diagoras wrote:Excl. drones/charges, the most produced T2 items from BPOs in March were: Exp. Cargohold (19%), Rocket Launcher (94%), Cap Recharger (22%).
How is it even remotely ok that one or two rich old players control 20% of two of the highest volume modules in the game and 94% of Rocket Launcher IIs when hundreds of their competitors are left fighting over the scraps they leave?
CCP wouldn't even be hurting anyone if they removed these as anyone who has one is already superrich and they're hardly likely to rage quit. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1126
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 02:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Thanks for the links to CCP Diagoras's tweets, Steve. Just taking the first one. CCP Diagoras wrote:Excl. drones/charges, the most produced T2 items from BPOs in March were: Exp. Cargohold (19%), Rocket Launcher (94%), Cap Recharger (22%). How is it even remotely ok that one or two rich old players control 20% of two of the highest volume modules in the game and 94% of Rocket Launcher IIs when hundreds of their competitors are left fighting over the scraps they leave? CCP wouldn't even be hurting anyone if they removed these as anyone who has one is already superrich and they're hardly likely to rage quit.
20% is hardly control. You can't price set with only 20% of the market.
And I'll quite happily take the current 300,000 isk per hour for manufacturing expanded cargoholds. (and that's including the datacore prices)
Or the 800,000 isk per hour for Rocket launcher IIs. A profit margin /that/ big suggests that there are few people making them. Which in turn suggests it's a market with no space to absorb higher volume. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 11:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Like I said...
People cant add...
You need 100% of the market to dictate where it will sit. CCP is also avoiding listing consumption numbers. Some tech2 isnt even profitable to build from the BPO, yet people invent it and then complain that BPO owners are the problem.
1+1 = 83, DARN THOSE BPO HOLDERS. |
RichtPaul
Shadow Industries I
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 15:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote: Some tech2 isnt even profitable to build from the BPO
Invention ME = -6 to -1 Includes cost of decyptors, datacores, logistics and time.
BPOs Can be ME and PE researched. No invention needed.
"T2 BPOs aren't profitable".
Stop... just stop. The only fields it's not profitable to invent from T2 BPOs are imaginary areas. T2 BPO owners needs to admit that their BPOs are quite profitable. Certain fields like command ships, logstics, recon, and a few other low volume T2 ships introduced before T2 BPO changes are quite literally dominated by BPO influence and production. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 15:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
RichtPaul wrote:DeODokktor wrote: Some tech2 isnt even profitable to build from the BPO Invention ME = -6 to -1 Includes cost of decyptors, datacores, logistics and time. BPOs Can be ME and PE researched. No invention needed. "T2 BPOs aren't profitable". Stop... just stop. The only fields it's not profitable to invent from T2 BPOs are imaginary areas. T2 BPO owners needs to admit that their BPOs are quite profitable. Certain fields like command ships, logstics, recon, and a few other low volume T2 ships introduced before T2 BPO changes are quite literally dominated by BPO influence and production.
"SOME" is a key word, removing it makes a big change.
Yes, many t2 bpo's are great earners, after that the majority are good earners, then there are the break-evens, then there are the no-profits.
Yes, BPO's can be researched, the price difference moving from -1 to +1 can be a large-ish jump, going from +1 to +10 can be small (or nothing) for tech2. But ask yourself this, HOw many people inventing are producing with -4 or worse prints for ships?... It's a lot more than you think.
I am not saying that some bpo's dont make mad isk, they do, just saying that the whole t2 bpo ownership thing is perhaps overrated.
There are thousands of tech2 bpo's out there, The complaints about the ownership of those bpo's being in the hands of a few hundred key players isnt the fault of those few hundred, it is because the others sold out. If we paid 10 years profit for a bpo, then why is it wrong that we make 10 years profit?... Does someone entering invention spend 40 billion on making ships?.. No... When someone is doing invention and CCP nerfs the S*** out of an item, does the invention owners 40 billion isk inventment turn into a 30 billion isk loss?... No...
Most of my t2 bpo's have been idle since Feb 2012, a lot of us "older" t2 owners really only produce from our key prints these days anyhow. Trust me on this, if we wanted to spoil invention we wouldnt do it by just underpricing our items ;P... I typically sell well over "invention" sellers anyhow, to me they have killed the game as my profit has REALLY taken a beating. |
Callduron
176
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 01:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
None of the above is any reason to keep them in game.
They are out-dated as AOE Doomsdays. Did it suck for titan pilots when they could no longer solo 200 people? Sure. Pretty good news for everyone else though. |
H2O Hairey
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 09:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
True i also think T2 bpo should be nerfed (ccp might be afraid some will rage quite? ) But back to datacore's, last couple of weeks allot of characters have cashed in all there old rp-accounts at the old 50rp/datacore rate, i.s.o. 100rp/dc, and the extra purchase price to the research agent of 10k ISK per datacore.
So no i don't think ccp is gona remove datacores. They will try to make it more expensive and more focused to FW and less to research agents.
http://heavysteel-inc.blogspot.nl/ |
Carniflex
StarHunt
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 15:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
The argument how T2 BPO's are "limited" and how invention is better are not too convincing in my opinion. As far as I can see nothing prevents the poor T2 BPO owner doing invention in-addition to spending that one manufacturing slot for that T2 item.
T2 BPO's are not competing with invention as there just is no competition with the lack of decryptor, datacore, BPC' costs on BPO's. Invention just fills whatever demand is left over the T2 BPO's. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
11
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Posted - 2013.02.12 16:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I heard from someone on EvE that CCP is going to remove research NPCs and datacores.
If this is true, how will research be handled?
If they are going to remove them in the first place...
These rumours generally originate from the same certain person fairly high up in CCP. I'm not going to mention his name but you should be able to figure out who he is.
These rumours will generally not actually happen as many people would unsub as a result which is bad for CCP. A couple of the more famous rumours coming from this person include removing ice belts from high sec & removing the ability to do invention in laboratories in POSes in high-sec space. These rumours will not come to pass at least not in the blanket formats suggested. For example it might be good idea to make ice belts not an inexhaustable supply like ore belts. But it would'nt be logical or workable to remove ice belts from high sec entirely.
I personally think it was a bad call to have datacore mainly being supplied by Factional Warfare. But we are not in control and have little say in what happens. New Eden mirrors Earth. |
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