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Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
153
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Posted - 2013.01.18 01:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
First they came for the missiles, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Caldari.
Then they came for the Drake, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Drake.
Then they came for the Hurricane, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a scrap metal.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for my Harbinger.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191595&find=unread
Seriously, CCP. What's with the hate on the Harbinger? It arguably took the worst hit of any other ship on your Tiericide list. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
646
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Posted - 2013.01.18 01:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
- missiles got buffed tremendously, unguided got a massive buff and T2 ammo now doesn't suck anymore, you point is moot. HML got the nerf they deserved
- the drake gets nerfed just like most other tier 2 BCs, drake was one of the OP tier 2 so it gets nerfed slightly more, besides if you want they could remove a medium or low slot instead if you like that more. Another moot point you made
- same for the cane, deal with it. Moot point
- the harb gets a damage buff but a fitting nerf, probably to stop ppl from piling on the heavy pulses in combination with the 1600 plate. Perhaps Fozzie is trying to tell you that he wants to stop bc's being massively tanked. The mass change is silly small (but unwarranted I give you that). And in light of the other tier 2s being nerfed a dps improved Harb is actually getting a boost. Moot point. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1035
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Posted - 2013.01.18 01:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
They also don't seem to want BCs to have 8 high slots either.
Not sure about the Harby, been years since I last flown one. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
2092
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Posted - 2013.01.18 01:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
So let me get this straight.....
You made a thread to whine about another thread?
Can someone tape a reply button to your head please? The Drake is a Lie |
Veronica Kerrigan
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
69
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Posted - 2013.01.18 02:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
I agree with this. I think the nerf to the harbinger was not required, as it was already on the low end of DPS. It had 7 turrets with one bonus to damage, while the cane has 6 turrets with 2 bonuses. |
Aria Lykryng
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.01.18 02:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:First they came for the missiles, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Caldari. Then they came for the Drake, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Drake. Then they came for the Hurricane, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a scrap metal. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for my Harbinger. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191595&find=unreadSeriously, CCP. What's with the hate on the Harbinger? It arguably took the worst hit of any other ship on your Tiericide list.
Somewhere in the thread they acknowledged it was going to be looked at some more.
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Xinivrae
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
258
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Posted - 2013.01.18 02:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eh, that seventh turret bugged the crap out of me anyway. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
154
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Posted - 2013.01.18 02:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Veronica Kerrigan wrote:I agree with this. I think the nerf to the harbinger was not required, as it was already on the low end of DPS. It had 7 turrets with one bonus to damage, while the cane has 6 turrets with 2 bonuses. This. |
cooly 0
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.01.18 03:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
I giggle like a girl every time some asshat says the drake was OP, and tells you to HTFU about the nerf when they couldn't even handle a drake. |
Veronica Kerrigan
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
70
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Posted - 2013.01.18 03:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xinivrae wrote:Eh, that seventh turret bugged the crap out of me anyway.
This is very true. All they had to do to fix it though was to put it in the centerline, rather than off to the side. |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3386
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Posted - 2013.01.18 03:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
cooly 0 wrote:I giggle like a girl every time some asshat says the drake was OP, and tells you to HTFU about the nerf when they couldn't even handle a drake. It WAS OP, I flew them all the damn time and so did thousands of other people in my coalition because of it. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm Want to enable BBcode on the forums? Here's how. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
1203
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 04:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
I welcome the changes. You're seeing people trying out new fits and new ships again, instead of the usual blob of hurricanes or drakes. |
Rain6639
Team Evil
115
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Posted - 2013.01.18 04:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ferox s++sè¢püùpüªpüÅpüápüòpüä Want To Adopt: any 2003 children to work as passive income minor alts in the PLEX trade.. |
Mire Stoude
Antelope with Night Vision Goggles
81
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Posted - 2013.01.18 04:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's probably because I finally decided to buy one. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
383
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Posted - 2013.01.18 06:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:They also don't seem to want BCs to have 8 high slots either. Apparently they don't want people to stuff gang links on most BCs without removing a turret. Yes, I know that gang link on a BC isn't something people do really, but with cahnges to boosting mechanics, who knows. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
495
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Posted - 2013.01.18 08:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Veronica Kerrigan wrote:I agree with this. I think the nerf to the harbinger was not required, as it was already on the low end of DPS. It had 7 turrets with one bonus to damage, while the cane has 6 turrets with 2 bonuses. This.
Are you all blind? Harbinger DPS, volley damage and damage/cap are all being increased in that proposal. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
495
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Posted - 2013.01.18 08:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
By which I mean:
10% (+5%) bonus to Medium Energy Turret Damage |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
649
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Posted - 2013.01.18 08:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Veronica Kerrigan wrote:I agree with this. I think the nerf to the harbinger was not required, as it was already on the low end of DPS. It had 7 turrets with one bonus to damage, while the cane has 6 turrets with 2 bonuses. This.
You didn't read it right, did you. Yes it lost a turret but its damage bonus went up, so it does MORE dps while using less cap for it. IT'S A DAMAGE BOOST! Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
383
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:You didn't read it right, did you. Yes it lost a turret but its damage bonus went up, so it does MORE dps while using less cap for it. IT'S A DAMAGE BOOST! What people complain about is mostly proposed fitting changes though. Byt yeah, people miss those 10% surprizingly often. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
484
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Boost, Scmoost. You get the equivalent of +0.25 turret worth of damage, it is for all intents and purposes unchanged .. when it comes to the guns the boost is in the lower cost per dps (ISK and cap).
Mobility is going be questionable though and will put it at a severe disadvantage .. will be nigh impossible to use manoeuvring to augment a tank. Looking forward to trying it out though, but think the extra mass (equal to a prefitted 1600 plate without the EHP!) and CPU reduction is a little over top. |
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
451
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
While i do appreciate the poetic approach styling the hangman..
The harb changes are going to be made less dramatic.
Also missiles got buffed not nerfed as a whole |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
54
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Where is the harb nerf?
All I see is
-1 turret -175 pg -25 cpu +%20 damage
Which results in: 6*1.2=7.2 effective turrets. Which is actually a buff
Considering one less HPL with 208pg and 35 cpu, you are not really getting a fitting nerf at all.
Cap regen is reduced => one less turret to consume energy EHP reduced => Has second best armor amount after the new prophecy. EHP is inline with others now. Mass incresed => Very small difference, which will be lost in rounding when you add plates to your ship.
You even get a larger drone bay to have backup flight of hornet ec's
They just rounded things around corners but harb will be same old harb. |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
29
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Deerin wrote:Where is the harb nerf?
All I see is
-1 turret -175 pg -25 cpu +%20 damage
Which results in: 6*1.2=7.2 effective turrets. Which is actually a buff
Considering one less HPL with 208pg and 35 cpu, you are not really getting a fitting nerf at all.
Cap regen is reduced => one less turret to consume energy EHP reduced => Has second best armor amount after the new prophecy. EHP is inline with others now. Mass incresed => Very small difference, which will be lost in rounding when you add plates to your ship.
You even get a larger drone bay to have backup flight of hornet ec's
They just rounded things around corners but harb will be same old harb.
-172pg is more than the usage of focused medium laser turret. And Harb was already tight on fitting. Also the reduced mobility due to increased mass does not help. |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
271
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tiericide is killing BC's. The Tier 3 BC's are amazing and have made most Tier 1/2 obsolete (the drake and hurricane where 2 examples where this was not the case).
Honestly BC's are in a good place right now in terms of there role, but this could be expanded with tiericide. If anything BC's (tier 1 and 2) should NOT have any sort of range bonus. Ideally battlecruisers should be able to fit the largest guns of their bonused type while sporting a large tank, but of course be very slow. As it stand they step on the toes of HAC's too much and these changes don't help that. They are becoming medarately increased tanked, high-damage cruisers.
The main reason these changes seem to be the way they are is due to the (rather valid) argument that they are obsoleting BS's - especially in 0.0 warfare. But this isn't BC's fault, it because BS's have become outdated which should be addressed in their teircide, not BC's. MJD's honestly are really helping to make BS's better, but this only helps them if they are limited to BS hulls, making smaller versions will remove a poetnaitl new BS 'role' (busting into cyno jammed systems which are heavily bubbled and assaulting a defending force). It also allows them to escape from large fleet fights when focused - especially when in sniper configuration.
As such i think it would make more sense to return the hurricane to its un-nerfed state and buff other BC's accordingly to bring it in-line. The heavy missile re-balance has sorted the drake out anyway. The other option is we get these trashy BC configurations they have proposed. Tier 1/2 should have more fitting (similar to a mini BS but without the projection, massive tank or MJD's) and tier 3's should have the exact oppose (massive damage and projection but minimal fitting and tank).
BS's on the other hand should combine all of these, but without the mobility (outside MJD's) and of course will be more expensive. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
154
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 13:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:They also don't seem to want BCs to have 8 high slots either. Apparently they don't want people to stuff gang links on most BCs without removing a turret. Yes, I know that gang link on a BC isn't something people do really, but with cahnges to boosting mechanics, who knows. This makes more sense, I never thought of it! |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
738
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Posted - 2013.01.18 13:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Seriously, CCP. What's with the hate on the Harbinger? It arguably took the worst hit of any other ship on your Tiericide list.
Because it's Amarrian, and Amarrians should be rather used to being shat on by CCP by now. EvE Forum Bingo |
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2013.01.18 14:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Deerin wrote:Where is the harb nerf?
All I see is
-1 turret -175 pg -25 cpu +%20 damage
Which results in: 6*1.2=7.2 effective turrets. Which is actually a buff
7 turrets @ 25% damage bonus = 8.75 unbonused turrets. 6 turrets @ 50% damage bonus = 9 unbonused turrets.
Total buff = .25 unbonused turrets or approximately 2.8% of the pre-tiericide harbinger's total output.
I'm not really seeing where you're getting a 20% damage buff over the current harbinger or 7.2 turrets. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
948
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
I expect the 'attack battlecruisers' to be reduced to at least combat cruiser speed and also take a lot longer to get up to that speed. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
1204
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Because it's Amarrian, and Amarrians should be rather used to being shat on by CCP by now.
Although not as much as the Caldari. We are actually beginning to like it. Nerf us again, CCP! |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
272
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Shereza wrote:Deerin wrote:Where is the harb nerf?
All I see is
-1 turret -175 pg -25 cpu +%20 damage
Which results in: 6*1.2=7.2 effective turrets. Which is actually a buff 7 turrets @ 25% damage bonus = 8.75 unbonused turrets. 6 turrets @ 50% damage bonus = 9 unbonused turrets. Total buff = .25 unbonused turrets or approximately 2.8% of the pre-tiericide harbinger's total output. I'm not really seeing where you're getting a 20% damage buff over the current harbinger or 7.2 turrets.
Loosing more grid than a turret costs, meaning those 6 higher damage bonused turrets are smaller sized turrets, resulting in a net loss in DPS. |
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