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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Scaramanga Erquilenne
42
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Posted - 2013.01.22 03:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Not all but almost every item i look at on the market price graph for the past years shows a upwards trend , why is this
I thought there was a large majority of players who just mine and build stuff in high sec ,so why are so many items all going up in price acording the the graphs? Have the rewards for mission running and other grinds gone up to off set this ?
Are not as many people making stuff as there was a year ago ? are is it all a virtual monopoly were the rich get richer and the poor get shafted ? You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist-á |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
249
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Posted - 2013.01.22 04:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Isk supply (missions) has increased more than mineral supply.
The full answer is slightly more complicated, but not much more. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1505
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Posted - 2013.01.22 04:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
More people -> More people earning ISK -> more ISK in the universe -> inflation
More ISK in the universe -> More people trading -> ISK changes hands faster (as opposed to saving it) -> inflation
Thanks to PLEX, a lot of ISK changes hands a lot faster now. |
Scaramanga Erquilenne
42
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Posted - 2013.01.22 05:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:More people -> More people earning ISK -> more ISK in the universe -> inflation
More ISK in the universe -> More people trading -> ISK changes hands faster (as opposed to saving it) -> inflation
Thanks to PLEX, a lot of ISK changes hands a lot faster now.
Yes but are ingame wages and fees not ment to rise with the cost of inflation in EVE ?Other wise it just puts more pressure on people to spend money on plex.
So more people are spending ISk made from running missions and less people are mining and building ?.I must be doing some thing wrong runniung throiugh L2 missions at the moment and you get nothing but peanuts even after salvage, from most of them, some l2 missions as little as 200.000 isk barely cover the cost of my ammo used )
Seems like you pay a monthly sub just to grind for hours to be able to afford things in order to play the game.As a casual player your left with no other option but to buy plex in my view.Your better off just loging in to train your skills for the fIrst 12 months of EVE in my eyes
I enjoy eve and will continue to sub because its still the best game set in space for the moment, but i realy do think its unbalanced and nothing but a grind for new players lots of risk grind and little reward ,and not to mention the advantages people get from skills for just having played the game longer and being able to afford better implants on top of that The game is all stacked against new players in my view. You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist-á |
dark heartt
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.01.22 06:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Its not stacked against new players, its just harsh and unforgiving. Eve has always been less about survival of the fittest as survival of the smartest. If mission running isn't making the ISK you need then try exploring or some other form of income.
I recently made a new character to see what the new player experience is like, and you do get a lot more support than you used to to make isk.
Also I believe that joining a corp will help with isk making. |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
186
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Posted - 2013.01.22 08:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Find a proper corp instead of making your own without experience, there are other ways to make ISK than missions and far more profitable but on your own you'll surely miss a lot of opportunities.
EVE is unbalanced if you play it alone, because then you're pitting yourself against everyone else and even a noob in a good corp can make more ISK than you on your own with far less skillpoints, because those players with more skillpoints and "better implants" share their experience and skills to boost their income.
And the best part of it, is that you don't even need to commit 24/7 or move to null, there's good corps in every area of the game that don't require full time commitment, so even the casual players can join, just takes some effort and common sense to avoid scams and not end up in a corp started by someone with no experience. "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
668
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Posted - 2013.01.22 09:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Many bots got banned and there were some mineral related changes so that's the supply side requiring more "manual labour" to get minerals upping the price and scarcity, on the other side there have been some silly income generating things going on, FW incursions and the likes.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Ovv Topik
Proposition Thirteen The Third Rail
221
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Posted - 2013.01.22 09:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lets not forget the ongoing war against ISK farming 'Mining Bots' adding to inflationary pressure.
ti'n siarad Cymraeg? |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
626
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Posted - 2013.01.22 09:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
There is more money coming into the game and circulating than money leaving the game. This is ISK faucets vs ISK sinks. ISK faucets are on full blast whereas ISK sinks are only a trickle. With so much more money in circulation, things will naturally cost more. It's sort of like printing more money. It won't be worth more, you'll just need more to buy the same items.
The massive army of mining bots have devalued minerals to the point where they'll take just about any buy order for their goods. The devalue had gotten so bad that people were buying ships and self destructing at a profit.
Then there's the bottleneck for T2 materials, the moon goo. Yes yes, boo hiss eye roll and all that. One alliance controls the vast majority of a specific moon goo source, Technetium. They alone dictate the price at which it sells and how much gets into the market. They artificially keep supply low and the prices high and are making a LOT of money doing so. Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
144
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Posted - 2013.01.22 10:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
There is only one resource that matters, and that is your play time. Your time can be converted into ISK in a wide variety of ways. Maybe in the past you could do level 2 missions for 8 hours to earn enough ISK to buy a cruiser, whereas now it takes 16 hours. Why is that? It's because cruisers are more expensive than they used to be. Why is that? It's because the minerals used to build the cruiser are more expensive than they used to be. Why is that? It's because less people are willing to convert their time into ISK by mining. Lower supply and higher demand means higher prices.
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Forest Archer
Explorer Corps Exhale.
24
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Posted - 2013.01.22 11:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
The reason everyone also seems to forget is the removal of drone alloys from drops which made it so that it is far hard to get minerals from any other source but mining, there is also the removal of meta 0 drops, the nerf to module reprocessing, the last hulkaggedon which lasted months, and finally a massive ban on bots. There are plenty of other things but I'd say these were the big ones in the last 2 years |
Merouk Baas
454
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Posted - 2013.01.22 13:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
You didn't create this thread to ask why, you created it to complain that prices are high.
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Bow'en
Solutum
15
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Posted - 2013.01.22 14:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:More people -> More people earning ISK -> more ISK in the universe -> inflation
More ISK in the universe -> More people trading -> ISK changes hands faster (as opposed to saving it) -> inflation
Thanks to PLEX, a lot of ISK changes hands a lot faster now. Yes but are ingame wages and fees not ment to rise with the cost of inflation in EVE ?Other wise it just puts more pressure on people to spend money on plex. So more people are spending ISk made from running missions and less people are mining and building ?.I must be doing some thing wrong runniung throiugh L2 missions at the moment and you get nothing but peanuts even after salvage, from most of them, some l2 missions as little as 200.000 isk barely cover the cost of my ammo used ) Seems like you pay a monthly sub just to grind for hours to be able to afford things in order to play the game.As a casual player your left with no other option but to buy plex in my view.Your better off just loging in to train your skills for the fIrst 12 months of EVE in my eyes I enjoy eve and will continue to sub because its still the best game set in space for the moment, but i realy do think its unbalanced and nothing but a grind for new players lots of risk grind and little reward ,and not to mention the advantages people get from skills for just having played the game longer and being able to afford better implants on top of that The game is all stacked against new players in my view. You need to be looting. While payouts haven't changed, the price of equipment and minerals has. Loot your stuff, save anything you might use, sell the rest and you will catch up to the ISK curve pretty quick. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
40
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Posted - 2013.01.22 15:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
If you think ships and items are over priced, you can always mine, refine, and manufacture the items yourself.
That said, a good deal of items are sold under the price of the materials used to make them. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby" |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
359
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Posted - 2013.01.22 15:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Forest Archer wrote:the last hulkaggedon which lasted months
Sorry mate, Hulkageddon did next to nothing to stop miners mining in hulks or whatever else they wanna mine in. The kills that are generally publicised and talked over on the forums are the massive minority when compared to the massive number of miners who never even noticed it going on.
It's good and everything but as far as an effect on inflation, doubtful.
If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if 'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
133
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Posted - 2013.01.22 15:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Forest Archer wrote:the last hulkaggedon which lasted months Sorry mate, Hulkageddon did next to nothing to stop miners mining in hulks or whatever else they wanna mine in. The kills that are generally publicised and talked over on the forums are the massive minority when compared to the massive number of miners who never even noticed it going on. It's good and everything but as far as an effect on inflation, doubtful.
Next to nothing?
Buff to concord making the boomarang maneuver impossible.
Buff to mining barges with baked in EHP and a special brick barge. (skiff/proc)
GSCs cannot be smartbombed and are found in most bot belts. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
93
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Posted - 2013.01.22 15:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Isk supply (missions) has increased more than mineral supply.
The full answer is slightly more complicated, but not much more.
Close
The material requirements went up for T1 revamps and since more players are actually playing the game, the demand for plex went up, raising the prices not only for plex, but also everything else.
Think of plex like gasoline, when the price goes up, so does everything else. |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
626
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Posted - 2013.01.22 16:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Isk supply (missions) has increased more than mineral supply.
The full answer is slightly more complicated, but not much more. Actually no, the bulk of incoming ISK came from nullsec ratters, not missions. Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Othran
Route One
441
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Posted - 2013.01.22 16:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Inflation in Eve (for me as someone who only really does PvP and some trade) has been more or less constant for the last 2 years at around 9-12%. Some stuff is seriously expensive, some hasn't changed much.
Game changes alter the value of ships/mods and you have the usual market fluctuations.
Best to keep some isk in ships really - not necessarily ones you fly - as a broad spread of ships will usually cover inflation. If you keep the isk in your wallet then its going to be "worth" less next year - just like it is with most Euro banks these days. |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
359
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Posted - 2013.01.22 17:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Keno Skir wrote:Forest Archer wrote:the last hulkaggedon which lasted months Sorry mate, Hulkageddon did next to nothing to stop miners mining in hulks or whatever else they wanna mine in. The kills that are generally publicised and talked over on the forums are the massive minority when compared to the massive number of miners who never even noticed it going on. It's good and everything but as far as an effect on inflation, doubtful. Next to nothing? Buff to concord making the boomarang maneuver impossible. Buff to mining barges with baked in EHP and a special brick barge. (skiff/proc) GSCs cannot be smartbombed and are found in most bot belts.
What im saying is not one miner i know or anyone i know knows actually got ganked any extra during hulkageddon. Also really i was speaking as far as the OP was concerned, re : Inflation.
The points you bring up are fair, but don't they all actually work to reduce inflation by increasing mining?
If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if 'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
367
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Posted - 2013.01.22 17:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
So people running l2 missions should have access to what exactly?
CCP has massively buffed bottom-end ships, so I have no idea what you are complaining about in terms of access. You want better stuff? Play harder or smarter. |
Scaramanga Erquilenne
42
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Posted - 2013.01.22 17:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thanks for all the feedback on this and yes i am sure there are more opportunity's to make more isk in a corp providing you get in a good one but solo is were am at the moment.And this it just my experiance and perspective i am more than willing to admit i may be wrong and i dont want to knock Eve as its a truely unique game.
I can see light at the end of the tunnel once my industrial skills grow and my PI and ME on blueprints start bearing fruit , i hope ) But again that all takes a long time in terms of game play.I have enjoyed the learning curve but found the market and cost and reward to be the most frustrating part of EVE.The margins are so small for profit compared to the hours of grind you have to put in for new players.
People say dont fly what you cant afford to lose, well again for new players who dont buy plex thats not a option unless you want to double the time you have to grind.
I have played free to play games were you grind for less hours to get stuff out of the game , I am not sure what business model CCP use but i just know there is little option but to buy plex in eve unless you want to grind for way to many hours as a new player .And then there is the power of two which gives me the feeling i need to have two accounts in EVE one for industry and one for PVP again more cost and more feeling that your one account is not enough.
I just think for a game were i pay a monthly sub there is way to much grind involved.I sometimes think the market is on lock down for new players and for the first year of game play your just a cash cow for the eve market.While i understand the competitive market place is what makes eve unique and you cant devalue it to much , I do think CCP should offer more in game reward for the first 6 months of subscription say a 20% subsidy for some items bought on the market .
I am lucky enough to be able to afford plex on top of my sub but i know for sure if i was not in that position i would have walked away from EVE after one month due to the grind and cost of everything.I might well be doing it all wrong but my impression of Eve is its to expensive for new players lots of risk and little reward in terms of isk.
The learning curve is one thing but the reality of eve market place is another think were think ccp can do more to help new players and encourage them to make it past there first 6 months of subscription.I know eve is harsh and unforgiven and i like all them things about it , i just think its to expensive in your fist year of game play. You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist-á |
Steven Koskanaiken
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.01.22 22:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote: I just think for a game were i pay a monthly sub there is way to much grind involved.I sometimes think the market is on lock down for new players and for the first year of game play your just a cash cow for the eve market.While i understand the competitive market place is what makes eve unique and you cant devalue it to much , I do think CCP should offer more in game reward for the first 6 months of subscription say a 20% subsidy for some items bought on the market . .
Yeah, this surely won't be exploited to hell and back by veterans by making new alts and buying their stuff using those alts and then contract them over.
Ergo: Malcanis' Law yet again.
"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players." |
Kai Sheia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.01.23 00:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Thanks for all the feedback on this and yes i am sure there are more opportunity's to make more isk in a corp providing you get in a good one but solo is were am at the moment.And this it just my experiance and perspective i am more than willing to admit i may be wrong and i dont want to knock Eve as its a truely unique game.
I can see light at the end of the tunnel once my industrial skills grow and my PI and ME on blueprints start bearing fruit , i hope ) But again that all takes a long time in terms of game play.I have enjoyed the learning curve but found the market and cost and reward to be the most frustrating part of EVE.
People say dont fly what you cant afford to lose, well again for new players who dont buy plex thats not a option unless you want to double the time you have to grind.
I have played free to play games were you grind for less hours to get stuff out of the game , I am not sure what business model CCP use but i just know there is little option but to buy plex in eve unless you want to grind for way to many hours as a new player .And then there is the power of two which gives me the feeling i need to have two accounts in EVE one for industry and one for PVP again more cost and more feeling that your one account is not enough.
I just think for a game were i pay a monthly sub there is way to much grind involved.I sometimes think the market is on lock down for new players and for the first year of game play your just a cash cow for the eve market.While i understand the competitive market place is what makes eve unique and you cant devalue it to much , I do think CCP should offer more in game reward for the first 6 months of subscription say a 20% subsidy for some items bought on the market .
I am lucky enough to be able to afford plex on top of my sub but i know for sure if i was not in that position i would have walked away from EVE after one month due to the grind and cost of everything.I might well be doing it all wrong but my impression of Eve is its to expensive for new players lots of risk and little reward in terms of isk.
The learning curve is one thing but the reality of eve market place is another thing were think ccp can do more to help new players and encourage them to make it past there first 6 months of subscription.I know eve is harsh and unforgiven and i like all them things about it , i just think its to expensive in your fist year of game play.
ok, my question is this.
what are you trying to do in your first 6 months that you are having so much trouble with financially? what do you WANT to do that you cannot do without selling PLEX to fund?
what "hours of grind" do you mean? I don't see what grind you are being forced into.
maybe I'm just seeing things skewed because I remember having to do learning skills...
in some ways I'm jealous of newer characters,sure you don't have the freedom and "power", but theres so much to DO and EXPLORE that takes a lot less consideration and investment into. the stakes are so much smaller that provides its own sort of freedom.
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Merouk Baas
457
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Posted - 2013.01.23 01:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
He's talking about buying and researching blueprints and he's in a small corporation, so I would bet that he's trying to maintain a POS tower somewhere. Maybe a large one.
If that's the case, from the beginning POSes were intended for multiple-player corporations, and not really for solo players. And the cost of fuel has gone up and down with the market. At some point in the past, CCP turned off NPC production of robotics and construction blocks and the other goods that go into making POS fuel, and player-driven planetary PI now has to produce all that stuff. As a result, it's all expensive, because high-resource planets are freaking rare and the manufacturing chains are complex.
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Pinaculus
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
208
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Posted - 2013.01.23 13:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
ISK is hard to get when you're new because you're new. It's got little to do with skill points and lots to do with the fact that you don't yet know where to look to make decent in-game cash. There's loads of ISK out there, and loads of people with so much to throw around that they really don't even care how much stuff costs or what their wallet balance is. I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7313
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Posted - 2013.01.23 14:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Not all but almost every item i look at on the market price graph for the past years shows a upwards trend , why is this I thought there was a large majority of players who just mine and build stuff in high sec ,so why are so many items all going up in price acording the the graphs? Have the rewards for mission running and other grinds gone up to off set this ? Are not as many people making stuff as there was a year ago ? are is it all a virtual monopoly were the rich get richer and the poor get shafted ?
CCP changed Drones from dropping alloys to being standard bounty rats. The Drone Regions in 0.0 were a vast source of mineral supply, and kept mineral prices depressed for about 5 years. Now they've returned towards normal levels and prices for ships are no longer artificially low. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
113
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Posted - 2013.01.23 14:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
The prices dont actually mean that much. Imagine that instead of ISK, missions payed in tritanium. And you had to exchange objects, "i'll trade # of X for # of Y" instead of just hitting "Buy Now".
One day you notice that whenever you offer to trade tritanium for things, people ask more. If you try to trade Pyerite instead, nothing has really changed. This doesn't mean that there's someone out there trying to make it hard on you. It just means that there's a lot of Tritanium on the market, so it's worth comparatively less.
This is usually the point where people stop mining veldspar and start mining scordite and so on instead. And maybe this is the point where you start doing things that give you less Trit and try to get something different.
Currency is basically just another commodity. It gets treated a bit differently because everyone accepts it, and it has no mass or location, but it's still just one more commodity on the market.
If everythings' "prices are rising", it just means the supply is high right now. Nonetheless, you most likely aren't all about trading ISK, you trade minerals or ore or modules or something.
You use ISK as an intermediary exchange, and so the number of units of ISK that items X, Y, Z, are worth isn't THAT big a deal because your wealth can be measured in ISK, or in Tritanium, or in Light Neutron Blaster I's, or whatever, and you're probably diversified out.
The only reason you should really worry about value of ISK is if all your holdings are in ISK just sitting there while that market slowly inflates. And that's not even happening very fast. It's not like we're in runaway hyperinflation or anything. |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
360
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 16:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:People say dont fly what you cant afford to lose, well again for new players who dont buy plex thats not a option unless you want to double the time you have to grind.
Risk vs Reward.
Every player has to find a balance between the two, miners as well as everyone else.
Much the same with combat, i'd like to faction fit all my ships but to do that would require mission grinding i'm not willing to do right now. You want to fly faction fit t3 boosted hulks, but it seems to involve too much grinding for you. Try to imagine how boring the game would be if you could afford everything right away, where are your goals?
Eve is designed to be played longterm, so why all the complaints about the part of the game you spend the least amount of time on - New Pilot. Trust me if you really like eve you will want something new to keep your attention by year two.
Anyway, do feel for ya. Contact me in game by eve mail and i'll hook you up a mining deal. Better played with friends as many have said so far
Isk gets easier naturally as you progress as a player. If you are finding you can't support the ships you want to fly it's likely you aren't skilled to fly it well enough anyway, but remember that can be in the form of SP or actual game skill. If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if 'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
754
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Posted - 2013.01.23 22:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:As a casual player your left with no other option but to buy plex in my view.
Working as intended.
EvE Forum Bingo |
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