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Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 07:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
My original thread was wiped out. :(
Since there was no error message/warning/dumplog, I'm not too pleased having the last hour of my carefully thought-out work thrown in the bin bucket. Forum coders, take note please.
Nevertheless: This thread was inspired by: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18500 I was going to post there, but it ballooned into a topic of its own.
Assuming that WH space is in the same galaxy as EVE and WH space is right next to us, with our space being a "prison/sandbox" that we are kept in... (first few lines)
We know that stargate technology only works in certain systems with certain stars. 1) Do the stars in WH space meet the requirements for gate technology?
2) We know the Talocan have a kind of... "space needle" (forgot the name) that does something to stars, possibly related to isogen-5. When the accident occurred and WH's opened up, did the stars in the majorly-effected systems change types in any way, shape, or form? Do they still meet the requirements for gate-building technology?
We believe the Talocan are explorers and that WH space is charted in a spiral (Thanks Calathea Sata) 3) Can we mark the EVE WH on the spiral map? I'm wondering if WH space was mapped by a civilization that originated from the EVE WH. This may also help with the problem of why we have 1 class 6 "group" and why things get easier as you go towards the center of the galaxy. Class 1's would represent the "furthest" systems and thus, have the least presence. 3b) What kind of sites are in the different WH classes? For example: Class1= frontier/whatever, Class6=Core - It makes sense to scope out the perimeter first, right? |
Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 05:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
I went ahead and created a map with COSMOS constellations overlayed.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/Fishscene/EVE-Online/EVEMapoverlay.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/Fishscene/EVE-Online/EVEMaprotate180.jpg
I noticed a couple of things: If I overlayed the WH "starting point" (Yellow arrow) on the EVE gate, the class 6 WH's were in Jove space. I then flipped the WH map 180 degrees and set the class 6 WH's over the EVE gate. The class1 WH's were in Jove space. I really didn't find any correllation between the WH maps and where the COSMOS missions were located (supposedly the best places to find evidence of Ancient races in K-space.)
Thoughts? |
Kirian Kador
KANTAI HIKAGE White Noise.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 11:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
I salute your effort, but unless you can tell us how to spawn static wormholes into specific systems or constellations/regions at least, it is going to remain just a curiosity of little practical value. I know I have been on this path myself. Then again maybe you will have more luck than me so keep trying |
Cynthia Gallente
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
2
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Posted - 2011.10.16 20:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
What exactly are you trying to prove with this? I'm very intrigued as to the layout of W-Space. I've never been there myself though, as I am still afraid of death. |
Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 03:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
sorry for the late reply.
Believe it or not, I'm not actually trying to prove anything. What I am trying to do, is maybe shed some light on things that maybe haven't been explored yet and see what people think/make of it.
I'm not an expert, and as proven in the past, I may be re-inventing the wheel here. But I thought to myself: "If these WH systems are in fact, right next to us, but inaccessible, wouldn't there be some kind of evidence, somewhere, to show this?"
So I grabbed the WH map, showing an apparent "direction" of WH classes and overlayed that on top of our K-space map and tried to see if there was any correlation/similarities/pop-ups. In addition, since COSMOS missions seemed to be intertwined with the EVE backstory, I figured I'd flag those systems on the map as well to see if their locations had anything to do with anything.
One of the problems we had in the past was, to align 2 maps, you must have a common reference point. The only thing I could think of was the EVE gate on the K-space map and the WH classes on the WH map.
Conclusion/Results: Results were disappointing as the only thing I could make out was that Class 1 and Class 6 WH's, if they are right next to us, end or start on the EVE gate/Jove space. While this may be of some use to someone building a backstory, it is useless to me as it essentially doesn't lead me to anything but more speculation.
My involvement is supposed to reduce speculation :P |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy
2172
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 22:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quick question: is the WH map chartable through in-character means? (is there a way of finding out the distance between systems for example?)
If not then the WH map could very much be the result of a lazy copypasting dev not worrying about the positions. If I were to make a collection of stars randomly I would pretty much do the same: make a blob, copy paste the thing around the canvas resulting in a somewhat-spirally pattern. Result would then have no IC implications whatsoever. |
Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 18:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
As far as I know, the only way to figure out positions in-game is to have 2 people in separate WH's, and then there's some way of seeing how far apart you are. (I don't know details as I've never done this myself).
It does very much seem like there isn't any correlation between WH classes and anything in k-space.
Worth a shot though! |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2620
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 22:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Something to ponder on.
1 W-space systems with hour hands at their suns (e.g. J100001 points at 10 o'clock and 1 second like a normal clock) 2 Extended hour hands, notice the class 6 region R30 at the bottom left gets the least pointed to 3 Close up of R30
Not sure what it means. n++n+ón+în+àn+ôn+ôn+ën+Än+çn+ô n+ån+Æn+Ån+ì n+ön+ên+à n+¦n+òn+àn+àn+Ä n+Ån+å n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ôGäón+Ü n+¼n+ën+ïn+à n+àn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ön+Ån+Än+à n+àn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ön+ön+ën+ìn+à n+Ön+Ån+ò n+ôn+àn+à n+ön+ên+à n+în+ën+ïn+à n+én+òn+ön+ön+Ån+Än+ü n+Ñn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ö n+Æn+àn+Én+în+Ö n+ùn+ën+în+î n+én+à n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ä n+ën+å n+ön+ên+àn+Æn+à n+ën+ô n+ìn+Ö n+Én+Æn+àn+ôn+àn+Än+ân+àn+Ä n+¦n+ên+à n+ìn+Ån+Æn+à n+Ön+Ån+ò n+Æn+àn+Én+în+Ö n+ön+ên+à n+ìn+Ån+Æn+à n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ô n+Ön+Ån+ò n+ùn+ën+în+î n+çn+àn+ön+ü |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2620
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 22:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Actually it might not mean anything. It's getting too complicated to be meant to be decipherable. n++n+ón+în+àn+ôn+ôn+ën+Än+çn+ô n+ån+Æn+Ån+ì n+ön+ên+à n+¦n+òn+àn+àn+Ä n+Ån+å n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ôGäón+Ü n+¼n+ën+ïn+à n+àn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ön+Ån+Än+à n+àn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ön+ön+ën+ìn+à n+Ön+Ån+ò n+ôn+àn+à n+ön+ên+à n+în+ën+ïn+à n+én+òn+ön+ön+Ån+Än+ü n+Ñn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ö n+Æn+àn+Én+în+Ö n+ùn+ën+în+î n+én+à n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ä n+ën+å n+ön+ên+àn+Æn+à n+ën+ô n+ìn+Ö n+Én+Æn+àn+ôn+àn+Än+ân+àn+Ä n+¦n+ên+à n+ìn+Ån+Æn+à n+Ön+Ån+ò n+Æn+àn+Én+în+Ö n+ön+ên+à n+ìn+Ån+Æn+à n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ô n+Ön+Ån+ò n+ùn+ën+în+î n+çn+àn+ön+ü |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2620
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 22:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
At least now we know the J number is irrelevant. I think in order to map the WH we just need to record where the WH goes to and comes from.
W-space is made up of statics and randoms. We know the outbound statics of regions. If we camp in a region and record the same statics destinations we will have the inbound data. That way we will have a chance-based table of WH connections. The random spawn WHs might be a bit tricky to rationalize.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Actually I'm sure many have been doing this for some time. We can either do our own recordings, or pool the data from other people. I think many websites are actually dedicated for this job.
I think it is a very difficult task if not impossible to know the exact nature of the WH connections because of the randomness in their mechanisms. n++n+ón+în+àn+ôn+ôn+ën+Än+çn+ô n+ån+Æn+Ån+ì n+ön+ên+à n+¦n+òn+àn+àn+Ä n+Ån+å n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ôGäón+Ü n+¼n+ën+ïn+à n+àn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ön+Ån+Än+à n+àn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ön+ön+ën+ìn+à n+Ön+Ån+ò n+ôn+àn+à n+ön+ên+à n+în+ën+ïn+à n+én+òn+ön+ön+Ån+Än+ü n+Ñn+ûn+àn+Æn+Ö n+Æn+àn+Én+în+Ö n+ùn+ën+în+î n+én+à n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ä n+ën+å n+ön+ên+àn+Æn+à n+ën+ô n+ìn+Ö n+Én+Æn+àn+ôn+àn+Än+ân+àn+Ä n+¦n+ên+à n+ìn+Ån+Æn+à n+Ön+Ån+ò n+Æn+àn+Én+în+Ö n+ön+ên+à n+ìn+Ån+Æn+à n+în+ën+ïn+àn+ô n+Ön+Ån+ò n+ùn+ën+în+î n+çn+àn+ön+ü |
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Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 05:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Excellent picture. I do like pictures, even though I have *no* clue how people make them.
Here's me shooting in the dark again: Imagine a cone wrapped around the pointers in that picture, say, 30 degrees. Is it possible the portal will randomly select WH's that the cone touches, WH to WH? For example, some WH's will *never* ever lead to C6 space?
*edit* Calathea Sata, any thoughts on the radial directions on sleeper stations and the apotheosis in relation to the maps and your previous picture? */edit* _____________________________ Opinion: I'm going to be brutally honest. I think WH tracing (mapping where they go, etc) will only yield the algorithm used to spawn WH's. I'm not entirely sure that's what in-game prophecies and hints meant by capsuleers someday understanding the WH network. :P
If we are to drive the storyline forward, it seems to me we have to keep participating in WH activities and bringing stuff into empire space - specifically to corporations having to do with the scientist who went rogue and set up his own research lab, or something like that. I'll have to dig up the references at a later time. _____________________________ Thoughts?
Also, Calathea Sata, thanks for participating :) you seem to know a heck of a lot more or have access to resources that I may not be aware of. Is there any way I can participate more in this sort of thing?
-Cave |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2630
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 10:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cone: Nope. I don't think it will be anything graphical like that. http://www.staticmapper.com/index.php?region=Unknown%20%28R28%29 Staticmapper has tables of static outbound WHs, and you can notice that for example R28 only has one type of static. Actually many of the C5 regions also have only one type of static. So if the hour hands actually mean anything they will have a noticible difference in their directions from the different C5 regions (R24 to R29). But they don't.
Radials: I actually think it is a coincidence. Radial patterns is a common thing... just like rectangles or 45 degree angles... If anything it has the notions of "a central point" and "circling around a central point" and "radiating out or in to a central point". Again, I think it's nothing special. But I wouldn't be suprised if they are somehow related as well.
Human mind looks for the slightest hint of similarity if they are trying to connect two things but it is dangerous because you need to be aware that sometimes you only see it because you look for it. Like looking for anything in a random pattern. Like looking for shapes in clouds. It doesn't mean it actually has anything to do with X if it looks like X.
WH mapping algorithm: I thought that is exactly the thing we are looking for. An equation or a proven theory, something that can predict new WHs to a degree of certainty. That is how I understood "understanding the WH network". I think we are already on our way because we have many static WHs already.
Driving storyline: I don't think there is anything already in-game (WH structures or messages etc) that hasn't been discovered or triggered. So perhaps the only way to go is to RP it with Tukoss :D
Resources: I don't have anything that isn't already publicly avaliable. I am not currently active in this actually. But if you want to participate, I think you can make a table of the W-space regions using that table from staticmapper so we can have a nice overview of the entire W-space and their statics. Or maybe start caping in a WH system and recording where one static WH goes to over many days. But I'm not any authority in this area. I don't know how many are doing the same actually.
No need to thank me for participating because it is a common interest. |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2630
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 10:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
To make that picture I used Grasshopper btw. For the first time. |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2633
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 00:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wormhole systems J-hours overview
Times on a clock face.
Top to bottom: AM hours PM hours All hours |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2633
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 00:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
On a 24 hour clock |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 09:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Calathea Sata wrote:Something to ponder on.1 W-space systems with hour hands at their suns (e.g. J100001 points at 10 o'clock and 1 second like a normal clock) 2 Extended hour hands, notice the class 6 region R30 at the bottom left gets the least pointed to 3 Close up of R30 Not sure what it means.
Interesting, this diagram reinforce the findings in the old Wormhole Mapping thread. Though I have are these plots based these on a 12hour or 24 hour clock ? e.g. 12hour = 360 degrees or 24 hours = 360 degrees. (edit, I really should have read the whole thread before responding )
Consider a Einstein Minkowski light cone, now consider the hyperplane of space is actually projected on to a Riemann surface and it is easy to see why only some directions are actually value. Now consider what would happen should the hyperplane or torus be rotating. |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2637
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 06:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2295/fromnewedentoanoikis.png
Where is Anoikis? |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2637
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 07:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/323/wh24hourhands.png
24 hour hands.
Nothing noteworthy even if direction is flipped 180 degrees.
Data irrelevant. |
Calathea Sata
State War Academy Caldari State
2637
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 07:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
http://eve-files.com/dl/248779
Feel free to make use of the data I have. In excel format. It's all from datadump plus a few new columns I've put in.
Edit: a point of note: the Y and Z coordinates need to be negative'd to be correct in my case so watch out. |
Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 23:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
We may start to piece together an answer soon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBAWayqELU I can only hope that these nebulae will also be present in WH space. |
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Komodo Askold
Rare Earth Elements LLC Order of the Void
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 15:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
You are making a very interesting topic here! I also always wondered where WH systems truly were...
Personally I always though they were inside the New Eden galaxy, close to K-space systems, but being unaccesible through stargates due to special natural phenomena in their areas. Their exact location in the map is the big question, and what you're discussing here.
A while ago, I made a topic asking for new environments and nebulae, showing more defined places rather than just a random, beautiful background. It seems the CCP art team is working exactly on that :D (I'm refering to the YouTube video you posted here). Looks like they want to show a very specific environment to certain regions, showing them from various angles and distances. What I was talking about in my topic is that there are many regions, which are said to have very specific lookings and to be unaccesible, which look like empty voids on the map. If we'll be able to see those regions from the surrounding systems, and we recongnise them from WH systems like they said in the video we could, then we'll see if those WH systems are, in fact, located in these empty holes in the map...
Here's my topic: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=138173#post138173
Another thing I wanted to say is the following: the in-game map covers a very, very small portion of the galaxy. There are million of systems inside any galaxy, so there's room enough for unkown ones ;) |
LOL56
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 15:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
I have never been a fan of the theory that W-space relatively close to K-space. It simply boggles the mind that not a single one of New Eden likely many millions of astronomers, or even astronomical mapping computers, has ever managed to find any linking star positions from anywhere in W-space to anywhere in K-space, unless they are too far away for the light form one to reach the other (14 billion LY give or take), or at least far enough away it is rendered to difficult even for New Edens finest sensors to discern, or than an object between the two areas obscures one form the other.
One other random thought, if they were integrated closely to the inhabited cluster of New Eden, you would be able to cyno into and out of some of them, which you cannot.
TL;DR I think there very far away from each other. |
Komodo Askold
Rare Earth Elements LLC Order of the Void
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 22:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
LOL56 wrote:I have never been a fan of the theory that W-space relatively close to K-space. It simply boggles the mind that not a single one of New Eden likely many millions of astronomers, or even astronomical mapping computers, has ever managed to find any linking star positions from anywhere in W-space to anywhere in K-space, unless they are too far away for the light form one to reach the other (14 billion LY give or take), or at least far enough away it is rendered to difficult even for New Edens finest sensors to discern, or than an object between the two areas obscures one form the other.
One other random thought, if they were integrated closely to the inhabited cluster of New Eden, you would be able to cyno into and out of some of them, which you cannot.
TL;DR I think there very far away from each other. That'ssomething I forgot to add and that keeps making me wonder. In WH space, any astronomer (specially in the EVE times) should be able to say 'Hey, that's Jita and that's Rens' or such. Unless those systems are really far away, or they're so inside nebulae and other disruptive environments that keep astronomers from getting accurate positions.
Sometimes I think that, as this game is in continuous evolving, this is a subject CCP didn't think much about and the beggining and will be 'updating' and making deeper soon.
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Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 19:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
I've considered Anoikis to be far away since reading Lianda Burreau, CreoDron's lead astrophysicist, comment that.
Quote:"Despite the strange nebulae, we believe what we are seeing here is a system not unlike those familiar to us in New Eden, although it is far, far away. Initial data gathered from intracluster medium analysis on the other side has led us to strongly consider the possibility that this system resides in a galaxy other than our own."
I think the nebula evidence is just another example of the limitations of the game environment, like the 1000LY neocom hypothesis.
I think what's really needed is an RP experimental way to resolve the question.
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Jodis Talvanen
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 22:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just to throw some more data points onto the table:
All systems in-game have the same star-box. So that could be assumed to be OOC. (i.e. It's not made accurate enough to be an in-character evidence.) Same with the current (old) in-game nebulae.
Since there is no way to actually map out the WH systems in-game (even we can argue to have triangulated it out, we have no idea where is "north"), the map pictures I have posted within this thread will be strictly OOC. The JHHMMSS times will therefore not be any directional pointers in any form of 3D. It will be something else. Perhaps just a name, perhaps just a hint to the notion of "time", or perhaps even just an RP pseudo-directional system that we cannot actually decode.
Wyke Mossari wrote: I think what's really needed is an RP experimental way to resolve the question.
Agreed. Also good find. On behave of Ms. Calathea Sata. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 12:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
I am trying to get some meaning out of those J-indentifiers too. What bugs me that they are called "locus signatures" somehow indicating they are used to identify a locus of... something. Stars or just he planets within the system?
It also bugs me that locus seperation is a major topic in genetics. Apparently the seperation has already been done as the signature already has been established, but again, what was the seperation done upon?
Work in progress. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 12:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jodis Talvanen wrote:Wyke Mossari wrote: I think what's really needed is an RP experimental way to resolve the question.
Agreed. And I disagree.
I like this puzzle game and the pseudo science it involves, if not only because it allows me to use my real world knowledge on scientific methods and apply them on my hobby. In fact, it is pretty much the only thing keeping me interested in EVE which apparently is the major goal for these live events.
I would hate if some wannabe scientist could RP their way to results that are unantainable through normal gameplay.
Of course, I only speak for myself and am likely in minority. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Jodis Talvanen
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 13:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think we are agreeing on the same things: solving the puzzle IC, but not LOLRP-solving it but actually solving it using in-game materials. At least that is what I understood what Wyke was saying.
The linkage to genetics and anoikis and gene signatures and all that is interesting but they are hardly in-character (arguable I know). So I'm not sure whether I want to understand it this way. Perhaps it's a good way to see how CCP got their ideas from but I hope the puzzle itself is not anything so realistic or reallifesciencey. Because not everyone is a PhD.
Perhaps what I am looking for is something that I can solve ICly, without bringing too much of my real life PhD into it. Perhaps this is just my personal preference.
I remember Dropbear once said the way to solve it is through induction, and I understand it as "just piecing together the in-game materials close enough to reach some sort of plausible conclusion" and it is something that can be done entirely IC. And I believe we have not reached the end of that tunnel. But having said that, there are other means to dissect the pizzle such as bringing the real life PhD into the equation, perhaps that is what I was trying to avoid.
But perhaps it is something unavoidable. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 18:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
I actually thought we were at the end of the tunnel a while back.
But as it is still possible for me to uncover new clues within the game I have dismissed that thought for now.
In spirit of the PhD, I have run the data you provided through a correlation analysis and the locus identifier (minus the 'J' prefix) has no significant correlation with either region, constellation, solar system, class, x- y- z-coordinates, radius or sun type, so whatever the "locus" refers to it appears to be most certainly none of these features.
And I agree on your stance that pure out of game sources does not work well as in-character information. I doubt that CCP has an expert on genetics or ancient south American native cultures hired to write their fiction, that is why I too doubt strongly when people argue based solely on out of game information. I have seen one wikipedia article too many. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Catheryn Martobi
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 22:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Someone brought up in GD that if the WH systems get the same nebulae as k-space we may be able to determine a rough location based on the direction we are seeing it from and the size of the nebula in question. If we cannot see any familiar nebula then it would pretty much put the matter to rest. |
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Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 05:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Catheryn Martobi wrote:Someone brought up in GD that if the WH systems get the same nebulae as k-space we may be able to determine a rough location based on the direction we are seeing it from and the size of the nebula in question. If we cannot see any familiar nebula then it would pretty much put the matter to rest.
This was what I meant earlier :P I should have elaborated and explained what I meant without making everyone watch the whole video, so thanks for clarifying :)
Also, some very good points were raised here. One of which I wanted to point out with my own view: We should use in-game tools and items to try to piece this mystery together. Oog stuff is good too, but Oog stuff shouldn't be used to solve an issue when in-game evidence or limitations can go either way. We don't want to "fill the gaps" with "frog dna" (Jurassic park). But we do want to push the envelope. This is why I think the nebulae thing will be very exciting. We've been trying to figure out some kind of map/pattern for these WH systems for a while now, and here CCP comes along and says "We can give you an in-game mechanic to help". Arguably, this isn't just for us WH folks, but it is still pretty cool.
This is why I love CCP. For their in-game, EVE-enriching content and atmosphere. (Also why I believe the Nex store is horrid- but I won't get into that)
Jowen Datloran: Thanks for running the correlation analysis. I was wondering if you could clarify what you meant by "no significant correlation with either region, constellation, solar system, class, x- y- z-coordinates, radius or sun type". Was that an analysis on a per-system level? or the entire K/W-space clusters? Example 1: Nothing is related to anything within the analyzed system itself. Example 2: Nothing is related to ANYTHING in game (that we can see), things such as the EVE gate, Jove space, etc.. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 10:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Correlation is a rather simple way to test if there are similarities in trend between data sets, such as; if one increase does the other increase too or does it decrease. The analysis I did simply check if any of the other factors increase/decrease when the value of the locus signature does. If the value of the locus signature somehow were derived from one of the factors (such as certain sun types would give a higher locus signature) there would have been significant correlation between these.
As example, all the solar system, constellation and region ids correlate significant and strong with each other due to the obvious fact that these ids are grouped with each other.
I only tested w-space systems as they are the only ones with a locus signature.
The only interesting finding of the correlation analysis is the relation between sun types and system radius; apparently the size of a system is related to the type of sun within it.
Maybe the locus signature is related to other factors, it name hints it is, but we have yet to discover what those factors are. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 12:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
When I suggest RP I still expect to run through the scientific process, not just for example, say "I find Jita, Rens, Amarr and Dodixie from my wormhole using a telescope and calculate the WH systems position". Instead I mean something similar to what Cave did but leave the final conclusion (or better raw data) to a GM event actor to deliver. The primary reason being we cannot be sure where the results are governed by pragmatism of the developers vs, intended lore.
Regarding correlation I mostly agree, but I did find a very slight correlation between the X position and wormhole class. This is partially to be expected we 'know' the higher class systems are further out. However the big issue is still the XYZ-position most of the rest of the data dump are OOC and dependent on that same pragmatism-intentional dichotomy.
Here is the data in Google Spreadsheets.
Locus Signatures
wormholeMapData (I've added a few working columns, the 'reduced' sheet excludes the three anomalous Locus Signatures).
J01226-0 J01259+0 J01340+6 |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 13:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Yes, I found that correlation too (I mention it in my edit) as well as a correlation between class and the z-coordinate.
Though, as you, I too regard those coordinate values as mostly out of game information and not really useable. Same goes with region, constellation and solar system ids too.
Though, sun type and radius are measurements that can be expected that capsuleers should be able to do so those where fairly interesting to examine. It could be interesting to do the correlation analysis on more system features (number of planets, distance between celestial objects, cosmic signature appearence rates and so on). Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 21:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
Most recent dev blog said WH space will NOT be getting new nebluae, but the reason behind it was because they were so new, so they could get the same treatment in the future, but it's a dead end for now. |
Jodis Talvanen
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 20:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
So today I was looking at the skies in SISI (new nebulae) and hoping to find something distant and mysterious or something that you cannot travel to. I found nothing. Nothing visible in New Eden is not already accessable. Other than the "milky way" background surrounding the cluster that is visible from the outer most regions. But it doesn't look like it has anything to do with W-space.
But hey, at least now we know New Eden is a small part of a galaxy.
EDIT: Can someone do the same on SISI? Find something that you can't jump into? Just to confirm that W-space is no where near K-space? Thanks
EDIT2: You can check the regions by simply picking a random planet in it and go planet mode. |
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