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dewtauk
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:31:00 -
[1]
I have been playing this game for almost two years now. I love this game and while i may have had brief associations with other MMORPG's, i find this content to be the most exciting and the most enjoyable to play. That being said you should realize that i am not a disgruntled customer. You have done a great job with Shiva, Exodus, and although its not out yet, Cold War seems promising. The one thing that you may or may not realize is that the issue of lag has NEVER been dealt with in a manner that prduces results. Lag has been a problem since the early days and you always promise to fix it and at times even claim you have. but the reality of the game is...if you get in a bttle with more than 5-6 ships involved this game slows to a crawl....this is not my computer or my connection, both are state of the art. Your severs lack the capability to handle the load and this is even evident when trying to download the new cold war patch. I have played several other online games and none of the others seem to have the lag issues as bad as you do...they do have it, but yours is worse. Step it up guys, i personally know quite a few people that have left EVE due to this issue. I want to continue to play this game. If anybody else agrees with me...please respond with an "AYE"
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Crackfarmer
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:32:00 -
[2]
Too..lazy..read..post. Nobody cares.. too much text.
PARAGRAPHS
..
/me dies of extreme laziness
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Rei Storm
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:33:00 -
[3]
I'm happy, rarely get lag 
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I hate to advocate sex, drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone... But they've always works for me... |
Vinyl Pants
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:38:00 -
[4]
I think, what lag there is in eve is very acceptable compaired to the other MMORPG's I've played (counting 4+ now including eve.) maybe your just in super busy solarsystems.
Remember, these other games only have to worry about 2 dimentions of data, as regards to where things are moving and such. eve has to worry about all 3, (up and down too!) and you have to admit, theres a little more data involved in 5 people throwing drones, missles, torpedoes, lasers, artillary shells, armor repairing... then 2 people poking each other with a "Stick of o'mighteh fire".
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dewtauk
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:46:00 -
[5]
you are right...there is more involved, but thats not an excuse. and if you dont have lag then you are just hugging a roid. Tried to download the patch yet?
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Vinyl Pants
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:52:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: dewtauk
you are right...there is more involved, but thats not an excuse. and if you dont have lag then you are just hugging a roid. Tried to download the patch yet?
its not an excuse, its a reason, theres a difference.
Patch - yes i got it off the first torrent mirror, the patch isnt coming from the game servers, if you look, they are comming from file servers spread all over the net, and its not a simple case of CCP didnt buy good enough servers.
Think of it this way you can either have:
1) CCP BUY heavy duty file servers, to deal out the patches, it costs an absolute fortune for the hardware and bandwidth, to deal with a problem that occurs.... once? maybe twice a year at major patch days?
or
2) CCP SAVE the above money, and keep it for future upgrades needed for the actual game servers?
What would you prefere?
Vinyl Pants
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: w0rmy on 05/07/2005 22:54:32
Originally by: Vinyl Pants
Originally by: dewtauk
you are right...there is more involved, but thats not an excuse. and if you dont have lag then you are just hugging a roid. Tried to download the patch yet?
its not an excuse, its a reason, theres a difference.
Patch - yes i got it off the first torrent mirror, the patch isnt coming from the game servers, if you look, they are comming from file servers spread all over the net, and its not a simple case of CCP didnt buy good enough servers.
Think of it this way you can either have:
1) CCP BUY heavy duty file servers, to deal out the patches, it costs an absolute fortune for the hardware and bandwidth, to deal with a problem that occurs.... once? maybe twice a year at major patch days?
or
2) CCP SAVE the above money, and keep it for future upgrades needed for the actual game servers?
What would you prefere?
Vinyl Pants
3) CCP save the money and line their own pockets.
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Vinyl Pants
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: w0rmy3) CCP save the money and line their own pockets.
[/quote
Which i think they deserve for making the best game on earth, and hope they get paid well so they enjoy making eve and it lasts ... FOREVAH
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:14:00 -
[9]
*Dark Shikari has no lag.
--
Dark Shikari: POS Consultant!
Want your POS to make money like mine do? I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50 million a day in profit--each! Just call me up--no ubermoons required! |
Akaviri
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: dewtauk
The one thing that you may or may not realize is that the issue of lag has NEVER been dealt with in a manner that prduces results.
So far, what has ccp done to fix lag.
They removed mines.
They nerfed jet cans so ppl can't make a ton of cans at a gate to lag someone out.
I have seen GM's come into systems and clean up cans cluttering up stations and gates.
Then there are a bunch of optimizations we haven't seen since they only happen to the servers.
They gave the ctrl+alt+shift+E and ctrl+alt+shift+t to disable effects and turrets to reduce lag in fleet battles.
They are aware of the problem and they have made an effort to deal with it.
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dewtauk
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Posted - 2005.07.06 14:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akaviri
Originally by: dewtauk
The one thing that you may or may not realize is that the issue of lag has NEVER been dealt with in a manner that prduces results.
So far, what has ccp done to fix lag.
They removed mines.
They nerfed jet cans so ppl can't make a ton of cans at a gate to lag someone out.
I have seen GM's come into systems and clean up cans cluttering up stations and gates.
Then there are a bunch of optimizations we haven't seen since they only happen to the servers.
They gave the ctrl+alt+shift+E and ctrl+alt+shift+t to disable effects and turrets to reduce lag in fleet battles.
They are aware of the problem and they have made an effort to deal with it.
thats the stpupidest thing i have ever heard.....im supposed to disable my sound and adjust my computer so that i dont get the full effect of the game just to cover for the fact that the servers cant handle 10+ people getting into combat? and your also telling me they are paying people to come "clean-up" cans?....fire the idiots and use the money for better equipment to better handle the amount of people playing. we pay them for this...demand more for your money.
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Crackfarmer
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Posted - 2005.07.06 14:43:00 -
[12]
I never notice lag, not even in the big fleet battles tbh.
So.... shut your pie hole?
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2005.07.06 14:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Lufio II on 06/07/2005 14:50:30
Turning off the effects of turrets and sound deals with client side lag, that is in most cases induced by limited processing power (yes, even todays systems have LIMITED processing power....).
That actually got nothing to do with the communication lag between client/server, which is actually pretty good as far as I can tell.
And well, many people also have limited bandwidth (there are still users out there with 56k modems...), and there's only so much data you can push through such a Bottleneck. They can try to reduce the information sent between servers and clients, but that usually includes loss of quality of that information. So if you engage in fleet battles keep in mind that every freaking client needs to be in sync.
So turning off effects and sound frees processing power that can then be used to track 100+ objects with 16+ modules than can be used and such and trying to keep in pace with the info that comes from the server...
oh, and Paragraphs are way easier to rread and may make your oppinion more accessible to others.
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Provider of Prorator Blockade Runner Transport Ships in Domain |
dewtauk
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:03:00 -
[14]
its amazing to me that only a few comments here have dealt with the topic at hand rather than creative writing skills that are rarely shown by anyone on these forumns.
and i run a 4.5gb processor with 4 gigs of ram.
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Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: *****farmer
I never notice lag, not even in the big fleet battles tbh.
So.... shut your pie hole?
Then you didnt any big fleet battle...
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dewtauk
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:05:00 -
[16]
on a T-1
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: dewtauk
thats the stpupidest thing i have ever heard.....im supposed to disable my sound and adjust my computer so that i dont get the full effect of the game just to cover for the fact that the servers cant handle 10+ people getting into combat?
Actually, if disabling sound or effects with the ctrl-alt-shift combos reduces your lag, then it's nothing to do with the servers - it just means your "state-of-the-art" PC isn't quite state-of-the-art enough to cope with that many people having all the bells and whistles going. Which in my experience happens with every game when you pile a large number of people in one place.
Originally by: dewtauk
and your also telling me they are paying people to come "clean-up" cans?....fire the idiots and use the money for better equipment to better handle the amount of people playing. .
Cost-effectiveness ftw. To hire 1 person to go round cleaning up can troublespots for a year would cost 1 person's wage. Lets be generous and pay them ú30k a year to do that. Or, we could get rid of that person, and spend this year's 30k on hardware upgrades. In terms of the sort of hardware Tranqility is running on, 30k isn't going to go very far at all. By the time you factor in the installation costs and extra maintenance on the extra nodes, you're not going to get a significant number of extra nodes installed for that sort of price. And of course, what nodes you do install still won't fix the problem of lag due to lots of stuff in one place, because of the way the cluster handles (or rather, doesn't handle) blob loads. Cluster systems are great at handling distributed loads, but their benefits fundamentally break down when faced with a tight, concentrated load.
I can only assume that you have no idea of the technical difficulties in improving the lag situation to any meaningful degree. Sure, a hardware upgrade would help, but an upgrade that would give truly meaningful improvements is prohibitively expensive - you'd be talking about buying and maintaining supercomputer systems, as opposed to the current system using clustered high-end enterprise server kit. So, you could choose to pay more for the performance you want, but I can't see the majority of players agreeing with the sort of price tag it would take.
Originally by: dewtauk
we pay them for this...demand more for your money
You can demand as much as you like for your money - doesn't mean it's any more possible to deliver it. CCP don't make things lag for the fun of it - they've made huge efforts to resolve lag issues, and will continue to do so. But they also have to handle the reality of current affordable computing technology, just like the rest of us. CCP are pushing the envelope with eve, but there are limits to what can be done.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:12:00 -
[18]
Took me 3 minutes to Download the patch.
Most MMO's, going though official servers, would have taken longer.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lufio II
So if you engage in fleet battles keep in mind that every freaking client needs to be in sync.
Actually, they don't need to keep in sync. Eve would break the first time someone CTD'ed if that was the case. The eve world continues at the server's pace regardless of how well or badly the clients are keeping up. So one slow client won't lag a whole battle.
Of course, all the clients do need notifying of all events in their grid, leading to a problem that scales as N^2, which is nasty, and the main obstacle to tackling the lag problems.
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Sirilonwe
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:23:00 -
[20]
dewtauk, can I ask what graphic card do you own?
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spiritfa11
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:58:00 -
[21]
Please realize that Eve is run from a central group of servers that everyone in the world who plays this game connects to. Some people are on the other side of the planet from where the game is run, and all things considered the game runs extremely well.
Information can only travel so fast, and CCP has done many things to improve lag during battle. It used to be so much worse than it is now, things have improved alot. Lets give the DEVs a little credit 
I was just in a battle monday with the MC, 9bs vs. 9 bs, plus support from both sides and as far as I can tell there was no lag at all.
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Swallow the knife... carve the way for your pride |
Erty
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Posted - 2005.07.06 16:37:00 -
[22]
Yeah EVE is a laggy game but try playing WoW. If you try to raid a city there is a big possibility the WHOLE server will crash. In EVE a node might crash but not the whole damn thing.
Lag still sucks ass tho :/
This is my signature. |
Eirelynn
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Posted - 2005.07.07 06:31:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Eirelynn on 07/07/2005 06:39:29
The lag problem won't go away by just throwing money at the hardware ppl to get better servers. Sure, it might become slightly better but it gets significantly worse for each single new person on a grid.
For instance lets say 1 unit of data needs to be sent to your computer each second for every ship in the local grid.
For 1 ship that's 1 unit of data sent from the servers to everybody.
For 2 ships that's 4 units of data sent from the servers to everybody.
...
For 5 ships that's 25 units ...
For 6 ships that's 36 units ... (This is where you say 5-6 ships makes the battle slow to a crawl)
Let's say they doubled the speed of their servers in an expensive hardware upgrade. It can now handle 72 units of data per second instead of 36.
That will only boost you to 8 ships before it slows to a crawl for you. You'll still see lag but with 8 ships instead of 6 and you'll still feel upset about CCP not doing anything to solve the lag problem despite them spending a ton of money on new servers.
Edit: Just noticed that Matthew already mentioned the lag problem scales as N^2.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.07.07 06:45:00 -
[24]
They are doing their best, man...
I recall a post where people were comparing their traceroots to the eve server and some people were getting remarkably low lag compared to what they used to. A dev replied that they'd been working on the lag and they had implemented a new something (I forget), but a lot of people came in to say that their lag was significantly reduced. They really are trying, perhaps the problem is more on your end and the end of the few who have these problems.
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