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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Gunship
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
121
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Posted - 2013.01.27 12:09:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Maybe ccp should go in the opposite direction. Not only should I not have to be on grid with my booster ship, I should not even have to sign in with my booster alt, and still get the bonuses.
Made me LOL
The sooner we see the end of off-grid anything PvP the better. Come join us for Amarr FW pvp-áaction. More info here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145548&#post2145548
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Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
621
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Posted - 2013.01.27 17:03:00 -
[62] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: I want to see kill mails where the victim is a ganking ship, and all the involved parties are listed as barges and exhumers, and all the weapons are various mining lasers...
Laugh if you like, but the very idea that an exhumer could rip apart an attacking cruiser with it's modulated deep core lasers feels like a lot of fun... and oddly more balanced too...
It would be a two way fight then... hmmmmm....
ants killing the bee. I like it ;)
There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Relativity Alliance
1149
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Posted - 2013.01.27 18:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote: I want to see kill mails where the victim is a ganking ship, and all the involved parties are listed as barges and exhumers, and all the weapons are various mining lasers...
Laugh if you like, but the very idea that an exhumer could rip apart an attacking cruiser with it's modulated deep core lasers feels like a lot of fun... and oddly more balanced too...
It would be a two way fight then... hmmmmm....
ants killing the bee. I like it ;) Absolutely.
The concept that mining vessels need to be particularly vulnerable in PvP has proved more of an obstacle than a benefit to game play.
The PvP pilots we respect most are not afraid of a target that fights back. They welcome it as a challenge.
Considering how we frequently see players taking the path of least resistance, and not using much defense beyond local in order to evacuate to safety. It needs to be cost effective to change that, and local + evac is very low effort and simple.
Back on topic, if the mining barges and exhumers can fight well enough, it makes keeping their boosters on grid more practical since they won't be as helpless together. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
191
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Posted - 2013.01.27 19:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Exhumers have a fair amount of drone bandwidth, chuck in an orca to refit lows to drone damage mods and replace dead drones and you've got a not totally incapable combat platform... or more realistically increase the drone bay as someone sitting an orca or rorqual on grid with their mining ships is just going to attract massive amounts of gank. |
Newt Rondanse
Magnificent Mayhem Mining
9
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Posted - 2013.01.27 20:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Well, the Exhumers can field a full flight of mediums, as can an Orca. Extend the Orca and Rorqual boost bonuses to Siege boost modules and they'd probably have a fighting chance, at least the ability to hang on while help arrives and be an asset instead of a pure liability.
YMMV |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Relativity Alliance
1149
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Posted - 2013.01.28 03:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
Short of reworking the exhumers to fit a full flight of large drones, preferably T2 sentries, just being able to field a flight of mediums has proven to be insufficient.
Yes, I am sure we can work up scenes where a couple of exhumers banding together might pool their drones against a common foe, but in real game play you remember you aren't PvP pilots right now. The guys you are with are probably either aligned for a fast exit, or AFK and expecting you to fleet warp them in the event of trouble. You can find countless threads where they complain about flaws in their intel tool in this forum. (Apparently AFK Cloaking messes them up)
It's simply considered a bad gamble, and the perception won't be changing any time soon without a good reason.
Now, the concept of adding the previously safe orcas and rorquals to this, (for on grid boosting), it doesn't fit the current play style well at all.
Not to overstate the obvious, but PvE is usually on it's own for defense. There seems to be little interest in the game for defensive forces on standby guarding them. I guess we can blame thumb twiddling not being fun for PvP pilots, who don't want to sit around waiting in case an attack might happen. Ship spinning beats thumb twiddling I found, and we can even see the counter after ten spins now. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
11
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Posted - 2013.01.28 22:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
Gunship wrote:Cearain wrote: Maybe ccp should go in the opposite direction. Not only should I not have to be on grid with my booster ship, I should not even have to sign in with my booster alt, and still get the bonuses.
Made me LOL The sooner we see the end of off-grid anything PvP the better.
FALSE
Boosters are just another tool available to pilots in eve.
Yes they can help a pilot perform better in a fight but that is because they are THE MOST SPECIFIC SKILL INTENSIVE group to train for.
I can train an alt 1 month so he will perma jam you in a fight I can train an alt 2 months so he will rep me against you I can train an alt 18 months so he can make my modules more effective in a fight.
When fighting 2vs1 which would you rather have? To me your odds are greater with the pilot having a booster alt....... |
NetheranE
The Cariest Of Bears
32
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Posted - 2013.02.10 13:11:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:The day after team grind lock figure out how to do it without breaking everything else, they be gone.
Said so in the CSM minutes unless I read them wrong. Well to be exact, the next scheduled patch after that day.
Despite all your wonderful ship changes and the great potential of armor changes... This right here brings me theoretically in range of an emotional reaction that has the potentiality of me perhaps having sufficient distaste to **** in your cheerios.
Stop them from working in a Tower's shield and all problems are solved as they ARE already probe-able, they ARE already easy to kill and they already HAVE a hard time fitting. Except for the obese carebears and lazy people that proclaim that my +10mil SP investment (10months training), and my ~1bil isk investment in JUST my alt account is "unfair" and "unjustified."
It's not like I've worked hard and patiently to earn this, it's not like all other players couldn't have it either. People are just too dumb/lazy to do it themselves, so they're mad that I have it and they don't. They are even more mad when I thrash them with it and they weren't intelligent enough to try and fight back.
Lose the shaping mechanics to player's whinging and make players adapt. Evolution didn't warp the world to humans, humans were warped to fit the world. |
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
310
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Posted - 2013.02.10 17:42:00 -
[69] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:Gunship wrote:Cearain wrote: Maybe ccp should go in the opposite direction. Not only should I not have to be on grid with my booster ship, I should not even have to sign in with my booster alt, and still get the bonuses.
Made me LOL The sooner we see the end of off-grid anything PvP the better. FALSE Boosters are just another tool available to pilots in eve. Yes they can help a pilot perform better in a fight but that is because they are THE MOST SPECIFIC SKILL INTENSIVE group to train for. I can train an alt 1 month so he will perma jam you in a fight I can train an alt 2 months so he will rep me against you I can train an alt 18 months so he can make my modules more effective in a fight. When fighting 2vs1 which would you rather have? To me your odds are greater with the pilot having a booster alt.......
I'd like to see your math on 18 months train time. Seems to me its' 9 months to get every tech 2 link (6 months for tech 1) in the game on a t3 cruiser with no implants, nor attribute remap. 4 months to get one one specific tech 2 link variety (3 months for tech1.
2v1, reps or a blackbird alt would be better yes. But links are still very good in 2v1, the issue is the bigger the fleet gets, the more value links have. I certainly would train 4 months to get a 33% range bonus to all prop jamming modules, a lower signature radius on any ship i fly and a speed bonus to any prop mod. Perhaps that is just me, but I don't think the training time is a justification to how links can affect an entire fleet with static bonuses that will last the entire fight.
Also, an ECM alt can be eliminated from the fight (or e-war could be used to the same effect), negating teh benefit he brings to the fight entirely. A logi alt is the same case. A booster alt however, can only be eliminated from teh fight if he is not at a POS and you happen to have someone with max probing skills and a virtue set in your fleet.
Sure it sucks for those that have boosting alts since there is some SP invested that you probably won't have a use for once the problem is fixed. Perhaps CCP will reimburse SP somehow (I dbout it), but in the worst case scenario you have an alt with cruiser 5 which can easily be made into a falcon alt, logi alt etc. within a very short period of time. Also, CCP hasn't said that they will be removing booster entirely, they said they want to fix OGB. YOu can always HTFU and put your booster on grid, although I would imagine people won't be doing this to make their solo condors pwn. I guess that's why they are called Fleet assistance modules, and not solo assistance modules. |
NetheranE
The Cariest Of Bears
32
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Posted - 2013.02.11 00:16:00 -
[70] - Quote
Silk daShocka wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote:Gunship wrote:Cearain wrote: Maybe ccp should go in the opposite direction. Not only should I not have to be on grid with my booster ship, I should not even have to sign in with my booster alt, and still get the bonuses.
Made me LOL The sooner we see the end of off-grid anything PvP the better. FALSE Boosters are just another tool available to pilots in eve. Yes they can help a pilot perform better in a fight but that is because they are THE MOST SPECIFIC SKILL INTENSIVE group to train for. I can train an alt 1 month so he will perma jam you in a fight I can train an alt 2 months so he will rep me against you I can train an alt 18 months so he can make my modules more effective in a fight. When fighting 2vs1 which would you rather have? To me your odds are greater with the pilot having a booster alt....... I'd like to see your math on 18 months train time. Seems to me its' 9 months to get every tech 2 link (6 months for tech 1) in the game on a t3 cruiser with no implants, nor attribute remap. 4 months to get one one specific tech 2 link variety (3 months for tech1. 2v1, reps or a blackbird alt would be better yes. But links are still very good in 2v1, the issue is the bigger the fleet gets, the more value links have. I certainly would train 4 months to get a 33% range bonus to all prop jamming modules, a lower signature radius on any ship i fly and a speed bonus to any prop mod. Perhaps that is just me, but I don't think the training time is a justification to how links can affect an entire fleet with static bonuses that will last the entire fight. Also, an ECM alt can be eliminated from the fight (or e-war could be used to the same effect), negating teh benefit he brings to the fight entirely. A logi alt is the same case. A booster alt however, can only be eliminated from teh fight if he is not at a POS and you happen to have someone with max probing skills and a virtue set in your fleet. Sure it sucks for those that have boosting alts since there is some SP invested that you probably won't have a use for once the problem is fixed. Perhaps CCP will reimburse SP somehow (I dbout it), but in the worst case scenario you have an alt with cruiser 5 which can easily be made into a falcon alt, logi alt etc. within a very short period of time. Also, CCP hasn't said that they will be removing booster entirely, they said they want to fix OGB. YOu can always HTFU and put your booster on grid, although I would imagine people won't be doing this to make their solo condors pwn. I guess that's why they are called Fleet assistance modules, and not solo assistance modules.
Putting a boosting loki on grid in a small nano gang is like handing your opponents a free loki kill. the small of gangs (read: fleets) that I used to lead are getting fisted in the face with this. we wont be able to engage **** without a ridiculously high lose:win ratio because blobs will remain blobby and the advantage that used to keep us in the fight is gone. No, i will not just add more idiots to my fleet. No, putting the links on a combat fit command ship is hardly an option, as most pilots are taxed as it is flying a nano/tanked setup with an OGB, can you imagine trying to manage 2 of these? It is not effectively possible and simply gives more power to the idiots and lazy kents that are unwilling to work to get where we already are.
Solo condor arguments are just like the RR arguments used to be, there will always be douchecanoes that abuse mechanics. That does not mean we need to nerf something into the ground so that scrub blobs dont have to TRY to be better in PvP.
This removes a strong element of time/ISK investment and work that EvE is built around. SP is a major advantage to an extent and this minimises the gap in a way few people recognise. |
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
312
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Posted - 2013.02.11 05:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
NetheranE wrote:
Putting a boosting loki on grid in a small nano gang is like handing your opponents a free loki kill. the small of gangs (read: fleets) that I used to lead are getting fisted in the face with this. we wont be able to engage **** without a ridiculously high lose:win ratio because blobs will remain blobby and the advantage that used to keep us in the fight is gone. No, i will not just add more idiots to my fleet. No, putting the links on a combat fit command ship is hardly an option, as most pilots are taxed as it is flying a nano/tanked setup with an OGB, can you imagine trying to manage 2 of these? It is not effectively possible and simply gives more power to the idiots and lazy kents that are unwilling to work to get where we already are.
Solo condor arguments are just like the RR arguments used to be, there will always be douchecanoes that abuse mechanics. That does not mean we need to nerf something into the ground so that scrub blobs dont have to TRY to be better in PvP.
This removes a strong element of time/ISK investment and work that EvE is built around. SP is a major advantage to an extent and this minimises the gap in a way few people recognise.
Alright so dont' adapt to the inevitable changes that are coming. Putting an untanked logistics ship on field with your small nano gang would be like handing your opponents a free logi kill as well. Do you think CCP should make logi rep off grid? IS that balanced to you because you can win fights were you are outnumbered through this mechanic by using your leet pvp skills?
The solo condor was an argument based on the post I replied to where he was referring to 2v1 scenarios. It wasn' t a absolute reason on it's own to justtify a nerf to OGB, and i'm sorry for you that your intelligence is too low to understand that. |
Larloch TheAncient
Corporation for Public Broadcasting What Alliance
38
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Posted - 2013.02.12 22:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
I used to be a fan of nerfing OGB as well but then all that changed when I realized something.
In all those instances where I lost to a pilot who had an off grid booster, I would have lost worse should he have brought his OGB as another PVP ship.
They're command ships for a reason, and they provide good incentive not to blindly attack fleets without a good bit of tactics. I still don't have a booster for myself if/when I eventually do get one I will use it for PVE and I'd like to not have to have him on grid if possible.
However, I do think that they shouldn't be invulnerable as well, either make boosting not work inside of a pos, or make poses much easier to kill with the revamp. (Looking at you Reinforcement timer) |
Zilero
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
44
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Posted - 2013.02.18 16:19:00 -
[73] - Quote
No decent discussion at all, everything happening behind closed doors.
Do you realize why?
Because having a force multiplier for small gangs like off grid boosting would mean smaller gangs are able to compete well with larger gangs. Yes, the large gangs can bring their own off grid boosters (and often do), but still to me this feels like its a nerf against small gang / "solo" warfare and one more step towards total world domination by 200+ gangs and the "large fleet fights" CCP seems focused on should be the only thing happening in Eve.
Realizing that the CSM are all part of the blue donut that is currently 0.0 I can't really blame them for blueing up when they have this knowledge in advance...
Edit: I do not approve of boosting behind a POS shield, this needs to go away and CCP should simply fix it so one cannot activate gang links when inside a POS shield, but removing off grid boosting fully is.. well I said it above ;-) |
Naomi Anthar
No Tax So Relax.
44
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
ok ok ... whatever. It will be removed, it's already sealed. Deal with it. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
203
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
Zilero wrote: Edit: I do not approve of boosting behind a POS shield, this needs to go away and CCP should simply fix it so one cannot activate gang links when inside a POS shield, but removing off grid boosting fully is.. well I said it above ;-)
I'm a little puzzled why people get upset about POS boosting - not like you can (easily) trawl a POS around with you to protect your booster and if you go into someones home system you'd kind of expect them to have the home field advantage (easy reshipping, corp mates logging in etc. etc.).
End of the day as far as PVP goes I think this is actually a bad thing - I'm not really bothered about off/on grid as far as PVP goes as I'm quite happy to stick my alt in an Eos on grid - however it now means I'm a lot less likely to go out with my main in a combat ship on its own, off grid links and try and get fights - I'm either going to be a lot more cautious and look for scenarios where I can use both ships for quick cheap ganks or hold out til we outnumber the enemy compared to before where I'd be more inclinded to try and take on bigger odds. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Unclaimed.
1327
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Zilero wrote: Edit: I do not approve of boosting behind a POS shield, this needs to go away and CCP should simply fix it so one cannot activate gang links when inside a POS shield, but removing off grid boosting fully is.. well I said it above ;-)
I'm a little puzzled why people get upset about POS boosting - not like you can (easily) trawl a POS around with you to protect your booster and if you go into someones home system you'd kind of expect them to have the home field advantage (easy reshipping, corp mates logging in etc. etc.). End of the day as far as PVP goes I think this is actually a bad thing - I'm not really bothered about off/on grid as far as PVP goes as I'm quite happy to stick my alt in an Eos on grid - however it now means I'm a lot less likely to go out with my main in a combat ship on its own, off grid links and try and get fights - I'm either going to be a lot more cautious and look for scenarios where I can use both ships for quick cheap ganks or hold out til theres plenty of players in fleet to outnumber the enemy - compared to before where I'd be more inclinded to try and take on bigger odds. (OK I don't do this very often on my own but thats another story for another time). Honestly, there are some aspects where a home field advantage is expected, even taken for granted.
With others, particularly this boosting issue, it is somehow taboo.
I am just curious how they intend to handle everything, especially with the rorqual and similar vessels not designed for either fighting or easy avoidance in siege mode where they get the bonus to boost. It is going to be horribly inconsistent unless they do something interesting. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Zilero
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
44
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Posted - 2013.02.19 09:23:00 -
[77] - Quote
Rroff wrote:
I'm a little puzzled why people get upset about POS boosting - not like you can (easily) trawl a POS around with you to protect your booster and if you go into someones home system you'd kind of expect them to have the home field advantage (easy reshipping, corp mates logging in etc. etc.).
End of the day as far as PVP goes I think this is actually a bad thing - I'm not really bothered about off/on grid as far as PVP goes as I'm quite happy to stick my alt in an Eos on grid - however it now means I'm a lot less likely to go out with my main in a combat ship on its own, off grid links and try and get fights - I'm either going to be a lot more cautious and look for scenarios where I can use both ships for quick cheap ganks or hold out til theres plenty of players in fleet to outnumber the enemy - compared to before where I'd be more inclinded to try and take on bigger odds. (OK I don't do this very often on my own but thats another story for another time).
POS boosting is perfect safety. Being outside the POS (orbiting) you can still be shot - as most T3 boosters for example have very low EHP and are mostly run by alts... by the time you pay attention you will be dead and/or forced to go inside the POS shields where the boosting will turn off. Perfect safety = big no no. Being able to be scanned down because you are at a safe = not perfect safety and perfectly fine.
Your last statement is exactly the gripe I have with the removal!
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
207
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Posted - 2013.02.20 10:16:00 -
[78] - Quote
Zilero wrote:
POS boosting is perfect safety. Being outside the POS (orbiting) you can still be shot - as most T3 boosters for example have very low EHP and are mostly run by alts... by the time you pay attention you will be dead and/or forced to go inside the POS shields where the boosting will turn off. Perfect safety = big no no. Being able to be scanned down because you are at a safe = not perfect safety and perfectly fine.
Your last statement is exactly the gripe I have with the removal!
But also if your fighting someone in their home system (ignoring stations for a moment) they can warp to their POS and be safe in the mean time inside the FF whereas to escape combat you'd have to bounce safes or use a gate/wormhole to exit system - I don't really see how boosting from FF is any different to other home system advantages personally.
If you force someone to boost outside their FF they will likely swap to boosting from tankier fits, especially with the coming changes they could stick a damnation outside the FF and theres no way you'd kill it without a big enough fleet to engage the POS rather than just sniping from range. |
Casha Andven
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.20 21:31:00 -
[79] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Hooray for buffs to gatecamping blobs Do you really expect a gate camping blob to not have its own links at this point? -Liang Not at all, but that moment people attacking them can have links too. So if everyone has them, then how is nerfing them a buff to gate camping blobs? Oh wait, it's not. -Liang
Using the same logic if everyone has them then why remove a serious gameplay mechanic? |
Casha Andven
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.20 21:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP. As several posters above me has pointed out, off-grid boosting is one of the most effective ways for small gangs or solo pvp pilots to even comprehend taking on huge blobs. This argument is coming up again and again. Yes there will always be d-bags in 8km/sec Dramiels but do you nerf a major feature requiring months of SP training for the actions of some who abuse it?
I totally agree with the argument of Zeus Maximo (a brilliant post) Eve is all about acquiring advantages that eventually increase your chances. None of these advantages ensure 100% win but all are valid approaches that can be pursued, thereby increasing the depth and complexity of gameplay.
So just like it has been pointed out before in this thread, your removing Off Grid Boosting means the people who use blobs as a fighting tactics only become stronger, since the power of numbers always belonged to them.
Adding to those points, some more observations: The leadership skills are very out of the way for training path of a pvper. A typical pvp pilot will focus on tank, weapons, spaceship command skills moving from smaller ships to larger and horizontally across races. For example one will prioritize learning all t2 guns of one's starting race followed by t2 guns of another one. Its very hard for the same character to have a lot of combat SP and then also have the SP for t2 links, within a reasonable period of time. So the solution: Alts. Create alts and dedicate them to leadership roles. Which also explains one of the common phenomenon that most leadership characters are flown in multibox setups.
Of course removing off-grid boosting will make it harder for people to multi-box. Lets be frank its extremely difficult to pilot two ships on the same grid. For people who have multiple accounts with your game, who have spent months training up characters, preparing a specific setup so that they can take on bigger numbers or fight solo, this is a clear removal of a gameplay choice they had.
Lastly examine how much of a negative impact does off-grid boosting really have? Will you guide your decisions about nerfing a major game mechanic based upon the tears of some disgruntled players that lost a 1v1?
Is that lone Dramiel moving about at 8km/sec or having 16km scram range really creating a significant negative gameplay experience for dozens of players populating a given system?
Sure FW has a lot of link active, but shouldn't rival corporations having membership in the hundreds all have links by now sitting in their POS? Isn't that true also for huge null sec blob fights all of which have active links for every fight.
Guess what I am saying is that the negative impact of off-grid links is hugely overblown and don't go by the whine and tears of people in this forum when deciding on removing a major feature. |
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Kathern Aurilen
26
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Posted - 2013.02.21 00:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Exhumers have a fair amount of drone bandwidth, chuck in an orca to refit lows to drone damage mods and replace dead drones and you've got a not totally incapable combat platform... or more realistically increase the drone bay as someone sitting an orca or rorqual on grid with their mining ships is just going to attract massive amounts of gank. A fleet of 5-7(skilled) gank fitted catalyst can kill a good resist shield tanked exhumer with a alpha strike. With my high drone skills it would take 35 seconds with the right damage t1 LIGHT drones(why T1s, cause it would change the outcome) to kill a single gank cat IF u started the fight(witch brings CONCORD on u). So if ur unable to to jet out with a single gank cat hitting u, the cat will get well into ur armor before u stop him.Newt Rondanse wrote:Well, the Exhumers can field a full flight of mediums, as can an Orca. Extend the Orca and Rorqual boost bonuses to Siege boost modules and they'd probably have a fighting chance, at least the ability to hang on while help arrives and be an asset instead of a pure liability. If they warped in on top of you, you would never have time to counter with a coordinated counter and all attack(if everyone doesn't run for their own sake) a single ship, plus IF u did manage to get that first strike with just LIGHT drones it would take 9-10 volley to kill a single gank cat. Nikk Narrel wrote:Short of reworking the exhumers to fit a full flight of large drones, preferably T2 sentries, just being able to field a flight of mediums has proven to be insufficient.
Yes, I am sure we can work up scenes where a couple of exhumers banding together might pool their drones against a common foe, but in real game play you remember you aren't PvP pilots right now. Ur right, miners are ready to leave if trouble shows up. Eve isn't the ol' west where they circle the wagons for a common defense. Its more like africa where the lions take a couple outta the heard as the rest escape.
T2 drones wont make a difference unless can out lock a insta-lock and start the attack before they're in range Ba-ba-blam, victory dance, in yo pants :P
Forum alt, unskilled in the was of pewpew! |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
209
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Posted - 2013.02.21 01:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
^^ I think your a bit too used to miners who have no PVP awareness at all and focus their fitting on maximising yield (if they have any fitting doctrine at all) :P a decently fit for tank (plus gangboosted) skiff or even procurer or retriever won't be killed by the alpha strike from that many cats.
Its somewhat academic anyhow as things stand. |
Gunship
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
127
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Posted - 2013.02.22 20:35:00 -
[83] - Quote
I wonder how long this is going to take.... Come join us for Amarr FW pvp-áaction. More info here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145548&#post2145548
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
478
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Posted - 2013.02.22 20:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Of course, it becomes a concern as to whether this will include ships intended to boost PvE concerns, such as mining.
Will these boosting modules be exempt, and permit the typical current shielded boosting ability at a POS?
Let's say you have a BC, and you use it in support of mining with one of these boosters for duration on mining lasers. (Useful tactic, the BC can also remove NPC rats for the miners if they have bigger ones causing probs)
Or will it be ship specific, the ORCA and RORQUAL getting a pass for off grid, but being limited to indy boosts only? Or ORCA and Roqual can get a range boost to mining ganklinks of say 8-10 AU. you can boost from a POS but only to ships in belts within 10 AU range of the POS. Or make it 20AU or more. What ever works for balance. |
J A Aloysiusz
Precision Strike Brigade
13
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Posted - 2013.02.22 22:28:00 -
[85] - Quote
I agree with most of what Casha Andven said above (too long to quote, scroll up), however I have a proposal that might act as comprimise between his view and those who see OGBs as OP.
My propsal is two-fold. Firstly, OGB's should be kept in the game, but their boost should be lessened. If I have a POS up in a system, I should have a moderate home field advantage - it's that simple. However, in order to remove the "wtf factor" everyone complains about in factional warfare, a new module should be added. This module should NOT be one used by the boosters themselves... it should work similarly to a HIC's bubble, and it should simply multiply the OGB's boost for all fleetmates within the bubble.
Why use this 2-part "bubble" approach? First and foremost, as soon as the bubble goes up, it's an obvious indicator that the fleet is receiving boost. So if I want to have my dramiel moving at 8km/sec with a 15km+ scram, the "bubble ship" passing on the boost has to be there with me, and he can be killed to remove my OP stats.
Furthermore, as Casha mentions above, leadership skills are completely off the path of any pvp pilot. The module should require no, or very few, leadership skills (similar to how it only takes leadership 5 to pass down boost from an OGB to your squad).
This 2-part approach also solves the PvE/Mining problem many have talked about in this thread. A rorqual can continue to sit in a safe area in deployed mode, and all the mining fleet needs to get full boost is one of their on-grid ships to fit the "boosting bubble" module to get the full boost of the rorqual.
As for specifics (whether bubble should pass on boost to himself, what ships can use said bubble, can he receive logistics, etc.), I'd leave that up to the good folks at CCP. |
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