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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.07.08 21:05:00 -
[1]
BS sized mod, that has a high ROF with heavies? Any mileage in a module like this?
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Delacho
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Posted - 2005.07.08 21:16:00 -
[2]
no
why would missiles users be allowed to have high dmg anti frig waepons while turret urers don't ?
reason that missiles are fixed was cause they did BS sized dmg to any target, now they can sacrifice raw dmg output to be able to kill smaller ships.
by suggesting that heavy assault you would just go back to the pre-fix state
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.08 21:48:00 -
[3]
"why would missiles users be allowed to have high dmg anti frig waepons while turret urers don't ?"
Heavy missiles aren't necessarily anti-frigate weapon... more like anti-cruiser, and turrets have no real problem hitting these, i think..?
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.07.08 21:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Delacho no
why would missiles users be allowed to have high dmg anti frig waepons while turret urers don't ?
reason that missiles are fixed was cause they did BS sized dmg to any target, now they can sacrifice raw dmg output to be able to kill smaller ships.
by suggesting that heavy assault you would just go back to the pre-fix state
It wouldn't exactly let us use torps to do 400+ damage to frigates... ---------------------------
VSX EVE Design |
Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.07.08 22:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Delacho no
why would missiles users be allowed to have high dmg anti frig waepons while turret urers don't ?
reason that missiles are fixed was cause they did BS sized dmg to any target, now they can sacrifice raw dmg output to be able to kill smaller ships.
by suggesting that heavy assault you would just go back to the pre-fix state
Not quite so, heavies arent too hot at hitting frigs.
I'm thinking more along the lines of an equivalent to 'dual' / Quad type turrets, stuff that's better against cruiser sized stuff.
Beleive me I dont want stuff instapopping frigs - that's what I fly most of the time.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.08 22:33:00 -
[6]
Well lets see.
There are around 5 turrets to choose from for each race and only 2 launchers...
Yes more launchers would be nice
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.07.08 22:59:00 -
[7]
Each ship class has two types of bays available:
Higher DOT/Higher Fitting Lower DOT/Lower Fitting
We could probably stand to have some more. Issues are that unlike turrets, where you can change the damage modifier and tracking, missiles simply change the charge size. That's a tracking increase and damage decrease all in one. But it's limiting. Logically speaking if we were to add a third cruiser class bay it would hold rockets. Problem is the ROF would have to be pretty low to make it reasonable as a cruiser class module. <1 ROF hurts the servers.
What we really need is more missiles types and more bays. Missiles are unique from turrets which is good. Part of the uniquness is a total lack of variety, however. I propose creating a charge system like the following:
Frig: Rockets (rockets as we know them) Standard (standard missiles as we know them) Light Cruise (new missile almost as powerful as current heavy missile)
Cruiser: Heavy Rockets (as powerfull as current standard missiles, faster) Heavy Missiles (The current heavy missiles we have) Medium Cruise (new missile almost as powerful as current cruise missile)
BS: Cruise (a bit more damage than the current heavy missile) Heavy Cruise (Current cruise missile) Torp (more powerfull than current torp)
So each charge would have a dedicated launcher, just like now. We'd have more powerfull missiles than we currently have so obviously the top launcher for each class would need to have higher fitting. It could be cool. Missiles need a mid slot device similar to a tracking computer too, something that adds missile speed/flight time as well as better hits.
Maybe we'd be making too much like turrets, I dunno.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.07.08 23:02:00 -
[8]
On this note, can we please have ship bonuses not be weapon size specific? _______________________________________________________
Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.08 23:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Meridius on 08/07/2005 23:07:24
Originally by: Alowishus
Higher DOT/Higher Fitting Lower DOT/Lower Fitting
We could probably stand to have some more. Issues are that unlike turrets, where you can change the damage modifier and tracking, missiles simply change the charge size. That's a tracking increase and damage decrease all in one.
The lower fitting bs/cruiser turrets still don't track anywhere near as good as cruiser/frigate turrets. ________________________________________________________
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.09 00:25:00 -
[10]
In the missile thread, TomB said that cruise missiles with that missile skill that reduces radius thingy, it will do the same damage as a heavy launcher to cruisers. So a heavy assault launcher is not needed at all.
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.07.09 00:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Selim In the missile thread, TomB said that cruise missiles with that missile skill that reduces radius thingy, it will do the same damage as a heavy launcher to cruisers. So a heavy assault launcher is not needed at all.
If there's an opinion in this thread that surprises me, it's certainly not yours! :-P
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.09 00:56:00 -
[12]
What are you talking about?
TomB said that with the skills maxed or at level 4, a cruise launcher will do the same damage to a cruiser as a heavy launcher.
As a result, a heavy assault launcher would be redundant. Thats not an opinion, its a FACT. Do you even read my posts, or do you just assume that I'm calling for genocide on missile users?
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.07.09 01:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Selim What are you talking about?
TomB said that with the skills maxed or at level 4, a cruise launcher will do the same damage to a cruiser as a heavy launcher.
As a result, a heavy assault launcher would be redundant. Thats not an opinion, its a FACT. Do you even read my posts, or do you just assume that I'm calling for genocide on missile users?
I cant see the post from tomb saying well trained missile skills will render a cruise missile launcher as effective as a heavy missile launcher vs smaller targets, what I can pick out is as follows.
Quote: Cruise Missiles:Cruise Missiles: They still work the same in damage against battleships but have been improved in DPS with cruise launcher changes (listed below), but only deal average damage to cruisers & frigates
Quote: Heavy Missiles:Heavy Missiles: The DPS for Heavy Missiles against cruisers has been increased with Launcher improvements (listed below), but only deal average damage to frigates
Just because you type 'fact' in capital letters doesnt render it true. Yes I read your posts, in general they're the ill-informed opinion of someone who doesn't fly missile boats and wants to degrade them for the sake of it.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.09 01:23:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Selim on 09/07/2005 01:29:10
Quote: Launchers The missile and launcher changes will make size classed weapons deal more damage per second to same ship class than bigger weapons, there are how ever two exceptions: 1. Cruise Launcher can deal similar amount as Heavy Launcher to a large cruiser with new guided precision skill
I don't know, looks like I'm right and you're wrong this time.
Can you stop starting arguments with me? To be perfectly honest, I don't give a flying **** about whether or not missiles get some new launcher, I'm just saying that the launcher you suggest would be completely redundant. I'm not in the mood to read you or any other people assuming I'm 'whining' about something, so why don't you stop throwing little insults my way and tell me why you think it WOULD be useful.
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.07.09 01:29:00 -
[15]
to a large cruiser and at that undoubtedly a static one.
On top of this it's still valid to have the option of fitting a BS sized launcher with ammo suited for mid sized targets.
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Lilane
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Posted - 2005.07.09 01:44:00 -
[16]
I personnaly can't fit my L-Blasters to be really efficient versus cruisers (*). Any good reason for the L-launchers to be?
(*) i mean without web/painter... things that can be used with missile launchers too...
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Spektral
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Posted - 2005.07.09 01:44:00 -
[17]
I have a suggestion for the Rocket issue in larger bays. Use the same rocket, but change the graphic and use more rockets per salvo ( in essence you can create a new weapon using old weapon mechanics).
For example Bs sized heavy point defense module substantial fitting requirements (cruise ish) fires 5 rockets per salvo (shown by a White missle graphic in game) Damage of 1-5 rockets per salvo (like a shotgun, similar damage calc to missiles now with some gunnery feel to it. Same range as a regular rocket, only capable of 5-6 salvos before a 15-20 second reload. (that keeps DOT down so the do not become uber vs pvp friggies, but still a threat) cruiser sized Heavy launcher fitting reqs 3 rocket salvo similar traits as above to keep in line with scale
This allows CCP to add more launchers without massive recoding, and allows "realistic" mods in game. In real life these launchers would be similar to rocket pods on the Apache. Substantial damage, slow reload. And since the damage is variable, their is no certainty with which to plan when using them in PVE.
Would appreciate constructive criticism.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.09 01:57:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sorja on 09/07/2005 01:57:02 .
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.07.09 02:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 08/07/2005 23:07:24
Originally by: Alowishus
Higher DOT/Higher Fitting Lower DOT/Lower Fitting
We could probably stand to have some more. Issues are that unlike turrets, where you can change the damage modifier and tracking, missiles simply change the charge size. That's a tracking increase and damage decrease all in one.
The lower fitting bs/cruiser turrets still don't track anywhere near as good as cruiser/frigate turrets.
That's why I finished off by saying we need dedicated class missiles, three types for each class. At least three would be good. The original missile system was so simple. All they do is try to build on what they started with but I'm not sure it's good enough. I think we need something totally from scratch. But that's just me, I always like to start fresh rather than work what is existing.
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MineallMine
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Posted - 2005.07.09 05:56:00 -
[20]
Six launchers is the right number
rocket launchers and S auto/blaster/pulse = high dps frig modules
standard launchers and S arty/rails/beams = low dps frig modules
heavy launchers and M auto/blasters/pulse = high dps cruisier mod
assault launchers and M arty/rails/beams = low dps cruisier mod
Siege Launcher and L auto/blaster/pulse = high dps BS modules
Cruise Launchers and L arty/rails/beam = low dps BS mod
The inconguity lies in that for frigs the less dmg less range high rof launcher has higher dps (just like turrets)It is switched for missle users. Also interesting, a small turret does 3/4 the damage of its larger size turret, missile launchers increase in power at a greater rate through the three sizes.
If they wanted to align missles perfectly with turrets, the should dramatically increase assault launcher firing speed, and change torpedoes to rockets on steriods.
Some other intersting items, the dps increase from rocket launcher to heavy is 33%, the same increase turrets see. From heavies to torps, however, is a 125% jump, and from heavy to cruise it is a 64% jump, from standard to heavy is also a 64% jump.
Conclusions: BS missile modules are much more powerful than turret counterparts, while frigates and cruisers favor turrets. When comparing dps per MW fitting req, the cruiser mods are equal.
As it stands, turrets trade range for grid while bays trade dps for grid. Fair enough I guess. But if anything, I think the assault launcher should get an extream rof boost. If the base rof of an assault were 7.25 s, it would be a dps improvement over the rocket launcher by the same factor the heavy ois over the standard, and the dps's of the two cruiser bays would come more closey in line with their cruisier counterparts.
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