Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Commander Ted
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
453
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 05:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please read the entire post, it is important you do not glance. What I am suggesting isn't really moon PI and only appears that way on the surface.
Instead of adding a feature that forces people to do something boring instead of doing something fun or doing boring things that we still need players to do (like mine ore) perhaps we can replace moon mining with a slightly different system of harvesting that is still passive. Ring mining would be a good idea, however I think a far less soul sucking and more easily balanced method could be implemented. Since it would be difficult to determine how many minerals a person sitting on their ass should get versus a passive activity should net per hour, my method is meant to break up the centralization and difficulty of being disrupted that goes with pos based moon mining
Make moon harvesters separate from poses and reduce their harvesting capability. Each moon would have a PI like interface where you would scan for the highest density of minerals. Then when you pick the location on the moon you want to mine from you receive a warp to point and your ship moves to the location above the spot you chose. Once their you will anchor a harvesting structure that requires sov to anchor. When you turn on the harvester it will take 2-30 days for it to complete one harvesting cycle depending on the type of moon. More valuable moons will have longer cycles. If the harvester is moved or disabled it will loose all progress made harvesting the materials and you must wait an entire full cycle to get anything out of it.
To maximize efficiency each moon would need to have around 3-30 harvesters depending on the moon type. Tech moons would require the most harvesters to maximize their output. These harvesters could be scanned down via the in game scanner like anomalies and would not require probes. Each harvester would be vulnerable to attack at all times and have a very small level of HP so that a 20 man battlecruiser gang could bring one down in 30 minutes. This would be to provide a source of farms and fields and require alliance wide participation to protect their harvesters. Controlling a tech moon would require a great deal of alliance resources to be maintained forcing large alliances to choose between having fleets ready to protect their resources or to be defending or expanding their empire.
Well whaddya think? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
264
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 09:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well written, planned and presented.
Unfortunately, you've based your idea on the assumption that everyone hates mining. They don't. Many industrial players enjoy mining ore, (mining ice sucks though which is why its basically an afk activity.) In short, I understand your reasoning, I just don't agree with it.
I applaud your attempt to move moon goo away from alliance and corp level control and into the hands of individuals. But I would like see movement away from as much passive income as possible. PI I'm 50/50 on, and ove got 9 characters doing that. Trading will always be a passive activity, though being active increases your profitability so I'm all for that.
I have my own take on ring mining, which I intend to present properly soon(tm). But for now, active moon goo acquisition good, passive bad. Individual/small groups good, mega corp/coalition domination bad. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Commander Ted
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
455
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 15:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:stuff.
Passive income isn't bad if you have to actively defend it. If we just station miners in their to scoop up dust then it will provide the same amount of pvp ore miners do, which is none. It would be a sin if CCP just adapted mining to mine another type of ore, then why not just add new rocks to belts? Miners need to mine ore and shouldn't be distracted mining goon and having null industry suffer more and ship prices go up. Then, how do you balance the minerals miners mine? How much do you pay someone for sitting their? Because people can easily just bot it or multibox 20 accounts mining tech ore 24/7.
The problem with current moons being passive is that if someone does attack you all you have to do is drop a bunch of supercaps on the pos and nobody will ever try to attack you again.
Harvesting moons in null should be an alliance level activity that everyone chips in to defend, it definitely wouldn't be putting it in the individuals hands. The resources needed to defend harvesters would require alliance wide help making gangs to chase off raiders. The purpose of harvesters is for small gang pvp targets that have a purpose instead of just gud fights for the sake of gud fights. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Commander Ted
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
456
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Harvesters should not have reinforcement timers, because the entire purpose is that they can be spontaneously raided and the fights for them would be predictable. However blowing up all your harvesters overnight while your alliance sleeps is a major issue.
My solution is that harvesters transform during the day. Basically once a day at a predetermined time for 6 hours your harvester will unpack to start mining. While mining the harvester will be immune to repairs but vulnerable to attack. After the 6 hours is up the harvester will transform into a packed mode that will be invulnerable to attack and can have all damage on it repaired.
The premise is that it takes the harvester X number of days to drill through a moons surface, however it can only run for a certain period of time before it overheats and must spend 18 hours on a cool down period.
Also I think this feature would be rather pointless for low sec moon mining so lets leave low sec unchanged. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 17:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
If those POS miners are making too much "passive" income for you, declare war on them and get them "active"...
Wow, I fixed it for you..... |
Commander Ted
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
456
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 17:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:If those POS miners are making too much "passive" income for you, declare war on them and get them "active"...
Wow, I fixed it for you.....
M'kay ill just go get a small fleet and attack CFC tech moons. Good idea bro.
Your such an attentive reader who totally absorbs the purpose of this post and absolutely has an understanding of the current problems with moon mining. Yep. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Commander Ted
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
456
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 05:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
I bet if I made my post more ambiguous and lessened the quality of my arguments I would have more people post in response.
Maybe if I tacked on a nerf high sec or nerf to afk cloakers I would get a whole threadnaught.
Maybe a redundant ship class or just a capital ship that does everything all other capitals do anyway would be good. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
The Renner
Canadian Operations Yulai Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 06:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
[quote=Commander Ted]Once their you will anchor a harvesting structure that requires sov to anchor. /quote]
So no more moon mining in lowsec/npc null then? |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
273
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 06:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Again, I understand where your going with this but o still don't fully agree.
Alliance income should be bottom up, its members providing that income with their activities. You are still suggesting a top down income, where the alliance leadership is the one handling all this.
And as your idea is not suitable for all regions, it doesn't work, therefore not a good idea to implement.
I still feel an active income would be more appropriate. I also don't want an identical system to ore mining. As I said, I have my own ideas and I will present them fully when I am ready to.
Oh, and you probably will end up with a threadnaught, because more than half of the posts on this thread will be your own. Normally repeating what you have already said. Point in case, as I write this, 3 other people have posted for a total of 4 posts. You have made 5 posts already. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Commander Ted
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
456
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 14:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Renner wrote:Commander Ted wrote:Once their you will anchor a harvesting structure that requires sov to anchor. So no more moon mining in lowsec/npc null then? Said in post 4 that we should just leave those places alone. I should put that in the main post. No real need to change those places.
Hakan MacTrew wrote:stuff So I shouldn't reply to people posting in my thread?
Also why doesn't it work for all regions? **** moons are easier to mine, harder moons are harder to mine. Can be totally adapted to any region. Really ****** moons can just be left unchanged. Timers and ore per cycle can easily just be changed depending on the moon. Alliances already have bottom up income from ratting and ore mining, CCP only has to make those not **** anymore. Their is no reason why you should be their to make the isk when your doing pvp to protect it. It should be a small gang pvp motivator, not just another way to farm iskies in null. Alliances need both top and bottom income, to fund ship replacements and super cap production, unless you want some sort of communist alliance forcing tributes from their players.
If you want, how about just make it so you have to stuff fuel in it once a day? Their is no good reason why you should have to be their when you could be pvping, mining, or any other number of things that we still need people to do! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
|
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
275
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 16:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:The Renner wrote:Commander Ted wrote:Once their you will anchor a harvesting structure that requires sov to anchor. So no more moon mining in lowsec/npc null then? Said in post 4 that we should just leave those places alone. I should put that in the main post. No real need to change those places.Hakan MacTrew wrote:stuff Also why doesn't it work for all regions? **** moons are easier to mine, harder moons are harder to mine. Can be totally adapted to any region. Really ****** moons can just be left unchanged. Pick one. It should either apply to all moon mining or none at all.
As for Alliance incomes, whats wrong with alliance members contributing to the allaince through taxes or donations? Why is it you feel that Alliance brass need to control income this way? The Chinese Null Alliancesseem to cope just fine.
In our corp, we all pitch in, handing over our salvage and low end loot. We do communal mining ops to provide minerals for our production. While we may not have a reimbursment policy, we supply ammo and other consumables fto our members for free as well as modules and rigs.
On the sunject of 'getting on with other things', there are many of us that are actually looking forward to the potential of Ring Mining. I hope it will use a new mechanic and require a different set of skills, (as in actual pilot skill, not character skill,) to achieve. I hope it will require group activity to accomplish. If you don't want to mine, then don't. Pew away, thats your choice. Don't deny those who actually want to do it the opportunity because you think you should have a peice of the pie but you don't want to put in the work for it.
The one thing your idea achieves is to make moon goo that little bit more vulnerable. But its just resource denial. Without being able to anchor these arrays yourself, you cannot get your own supply. Ring mining with ships could allow a gang to slip in under the radar and mine in enemy territory as well as sabotage any strategic assets that may boost the enemies own mining efforts when they return. Small roaming gangs would have to patrol the vital areas and they would need to be protected.
How is that not promoting small gang PvP? MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Commander Ted
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
456
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 16:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Pick one. It should either apply to all moon mining or none at all. As for Alliance incomes, whats wrong with alliance members contributing to the allaince through taxes or donations? Why is it you feel that Alliance brass need to control income this way? The Chinese Null Alliancesseem to cope just fine. In our corp, we all pitch in, handing over our salvage and low end loot. We do communal mining ops to provide minerals for our production. While we may not have a reimbursment policy, we supply ammo and other consumables fto our members for free as well as modules and rigs. On the sunject of 'getting on with other things', there are many of us that are actually looking forward to the potential of Ring Mining. I hope it will use a new mechanic and require a different set of skills, (as in actual pilot skill, not character skill,) to achieve. I hope it will require group activity to accomplish. If you don't want to mine, then don't. Pew away, thats your choice. Don't deny those who actually want to do it the opportunity because you think you should have a peice of the pie but you don't want to put in the work for it. The one thing your idea achieves is to make moon goo that little bit more vulnerable. But its just resource denial. Without being able to anchor these arrays yourself, you cannot get your own supply. Ring mining with ships could allow a gang to slip in under the radar and mine in enemy territory as well as sabotage any strategic assets that may boost the enemies own mining efforts when they return. Small roaming gangs would have to patrol the vital areas and they would need to be protected. How is that not promoting small gang PvP?
Their is absolutely no reason in the world why different moons can't have different timers and yields! You give no reasons why, it seems to me like a very arbitrary argument. It makes sense because they all have different geology. People don't whine when different wormhole systems give different bonuses or have different mass sizes.
As for the chinese eve server it is a very different culture than ours, Chinese people have no problems playing free to play MMO's where it costs 10000 dollars to be succesful and the main activity is pressing the same button over and over. We are also talking about a culture very different from the west where the collective is held in greater esteem over the individual. It is not something for everyone. Their is no good reason you need to mine the moon goo yourself. Also as I said, we need regular ore and ice, why do we need to divide the industry resources more?
The piece you put in to earn your isk is showing up to fleet ops for 3 hours and fighting at risk of loosing your ships. Their is no real reason to do small gang pvp in null right now other than to get gud fights. Carebears can mine all you want but leave us pvp'ers something to earn. I HATE mining and ratting, I think it is god awful and if I have to do it for more than 3 minutes I will smash my monitor and cancel my accounts. How come the alliance can't rely on me as a warrior caste of sorts and pay me to fight? Because its not fair that I don't want to sit in front of my monitor all day ratting watching the little red crosses explode? Having something do a passive action is work, because someone can **** it up. It takes WORK to claim sov, it takes WORK, to setup the logistical network, WORK coming up with fleet doctrines, skill being an FC. I am risking money anchoring this thing because it costs isk. I am risking my ships defending this thing because I have to be their shooting **** that shoots back. How about I argue that mining ore isn't work because your just sitting their watching local alt tabbing out watching YouTube? Pretty unfair isn't it? Im playing a game, I shouldn't be forced to sit their and do something that pisses me off to do what I want.
The problem with moons in their current form is that they provide massive income and it is easy to control all of them leading to things like otec. If the mittani had to leave a slave boy at his computer to mine his tech he would. The little guy doesn't need to have direct access to them, the alliances share those resources anyway building important **** like supercaps, paying sov pills, and replacing entire fleets. What needs to happen is the moons being more evenly distributed and the addition of more of them so ruling one corner of space doesn't lead to a bottleneck. Resource denial is an important strategy in war and in this current system it is very difficult. In a HBC VS CFC war if this was implemented then it would be something constantly contested. Chasing miners who just dock up and bore you is dumb. What is your small gang going to do when it sneaks into enemy space? (not like they will light up every intel channel on the way in) Gank rorquals and ihubs?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2262
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 20:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1
Not too dissimilar from the proposal we made a few years back. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |