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Thgil Goldcore Advenus Classem Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 520	Posted - 2013.02.04 03:20:00 - [1] - Quote So, simple discussion with intended over analyzing intended. Who would win in a battle between the Galactic Empire (Star wars) and the Amarr Empire (Eve... duh)? In this sense, comparable fleets would do battle... not the entire empires themselves. So a detachment of star destroyers and lesser escort ships against a group of battleships and lesser support ships. This isn't a fight between their largest ships and fleets. just comparable ones. And it is a battle to the death! Some quick ground rules to stage the fight, since obvious problems would arise if you let all of cannon into play. So to put a few limitations and restrictions in place is required. First rule, The fight takes place in one system. No ship can leave that system, nor enter. This is a fixed battle in one place. Although moving about the system is perfectly acceptable. Second rule, No major characters. Things get complicated when you say 'well if Darth Vader was there' or other such stuff. Third rule, Each ship plays by its own physics. Sci fi always takes some liberties with physics, its just the nature of the beast. So lets assume that on board each ship works by their own universe's physics. Forth rule, They have no intel on each-other. They don't have any initial tactical knowledge about each-others abilities, weaknesses, etc. So now that the rules are in place.... Who would win? Who would lose? Would it be a blow out or an great match? Explain your arguments one way or another. Lets have fun and get the nerd rage flowing!
Bane Necran Appono Astos 1599	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:14:00 - [2] - Quote EVE ships can repair themselves while in battle which would be a pretty significant advantage. "The nice thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive." ~Kenneth Williams
Arkady Vachon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 193	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:24:00 - [3] - Quote I have a bad feeling about this... Nothing Personal - Just Business... Chaos Creates Content
Rain6639 Team Evil 168	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:26:00 - [4] - Quote I thought we talked about this falcon remote reps neuts PL everyone and their momma showing up to prove the tactical superiority of a space MMO that is ten years deep I'm sure we could bait intel-blind noobs into getting concordokken'd somehow EDM? you mean EFM
Tikktokk Tokkzikk Cult of Escobar 138	Posted - 2013.02.04 20:19:00 - [5] - Quote Only fair that we also get to use carriers! See laz0rs, refit for max EM/therm, smartbomb fighters, win. Or, you know, batphone PL.
Rain6639 Team Evil 171	Posted - 2013.02.04 20:20:00 - [6] - Quote Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote: Only fair that we also get to use carriers! See laz0rs, refit for max EM/therm, smartbomb fighters, win. Or, you know, batphone PL. size-wise, battleships are even with star destroyers. EDM? you mean EFM
Tikktokk Tokkzikk Cult of Escobar 138	Posted - 2013.02.04 20:24:00 - [7] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote: Only fair that we also get to use carriers! See laz0rs, refit for max EM/therm, smartbomb fighters, win. Or, you know, batphone PL. size-wise, battleships are even with star destroyers. Star destroyers use fighters (and laz0rs!), which are for carriers only.
Rain6639 Team Evil 171	Posted - 2013.02.04 20:26:00 - [8] - Quote yah but that's why I said smartbombs, and I think it's fair when we have drone boats plus it would be what, 50 immortal ghosts-in-the-shells against thousands of crew? where's the risk EDM? you mean EFM
Tikktokk Tokkzikk Cult of Escobar 138	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:02:00 - [9] - Quote Thgil Goldcore wrote: First rule, The fight takes place in one system. No ship can leave that system, nor enter. This is a fixed battle in one place. Although moving about the system is perfectly acceptable. We risk running out of ships and losing to those silly people in costumes...
Rain6639 Team Evil 171	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:05:00 - [10] - Quote their fighters and our fighters are similar in name only. theirs would get instapopped by mediums, hacked down pretty quickly by lights. tiny frigs with straight-ahead, manual targeting. it's like a biplane with prop guns EDM? you mean EFM

Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 1815	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:05:00 - [11] - Quote Empire builds 1 super star destroyer and 1 Deathstar and deploys them willy-nilly against rebels. Neut PL alt lights cyno and drops 45 Avatars who proceed to 1 volley the super star destroyer and doomsday the deathstar. The killmails are repeatedly linked in local for an hour. Empire takes to the forums to cry about force projection and blob warfare. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Khergit Deserters 683	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:13:00 - [12] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: their fighters and our fighters are similar in name only. theirs would get instapopped by mediums, hacked down pretty quickly by lights. tiny frigs with straight-ahead, manual targeting. it's like a biplane with prop guns Yeah, but TIE fighters are controlled by that little twiddly volume control knob thing. How are we going to battle that? Besides, the Empire has The Force, Dark Side of. Amarr have no Force in them whatsoever. If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when they're in trouble again.
Rain6639 Team Evil 171	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:15:00 - [13] - Quote you can't force choke drones, so that's good. EDM? you mean EFM
Zimmy Zeta RvB - RED Federation 7025	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:16:00 - [14] - Quote Armament of an Imperial class Star Destroyer: Octuple barbette turbolaser or Ion cannons (8) Heavy turbolaser batteries (50) Turbolaser batteries (50) Additional turbolaser batteries (26+) Heavy ion cannons (20) Phylon Q7 tractor beam projectors (10) source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_II-class_Star_Destroyer So that's at least 146 laser guns on a single Star Destroyer plus 72 TIE fighters, while Amarrian subcap ships have a maximum of 16 laser guns and a maximum of 5 active drones at any given time. Yes, I know, I am a terrible nerd... Please don't feed me.
Rain6639 Team Evil 171	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:17:00 - [15] - Quote yah but their gunners suck and their lasers are slow EDM? you mean EFM
Mizhir Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 3532	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:20:00 - [16] - Quote The Empire doesn't have logis and they dont call primaries .... noobs. The Logi Pilot we need... Not the Logi Pilot we deserve
Rain6639 Team Evil 171	Posted - 2013.02.04 21:24:00 - [17] - Quote it's safe to say we have better intel. I still don't know what half our ships do EDM? you mean EFM
Thgil Goldcore Advenus Classem Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 521	Posted - 2013.02.05 06:38:00 - [18] - Quote i should note that the smart bombs aren't typical armaments for Amarr empire ships, and since neither side knows anything about what they are up against, not fair to say the Amarr empire would be packing alot. Alot of the star destroyers weapons are very short range low power weapons designed to destroy small craft. So any drones employed by the Amarr would likely be insta-gibbed... which would crush a gallente fleet, but the Amarr fleet doesn't use drones as their primary weapon systems. In terms of damage, the hordes of tie fighters should not be underestimated. While true their power is more on par with light drones... a few hundred of them is pretty scary. The Amarr ships are not equiped with many small turrets light the star wars ships have to counter that threat. So the Amarr fleet will take alot of damage to be sure. Also Tie fighters dont become still just because their original ship was destroyed.... they'll keep fighting! On the other hand, the Amarr battleships have some pretty impressively large guns. Typical Star was ships don't have nearly as powerful of main guns and defenses are not apt to repel such a deadly threat. At the end of the day, ships will sink fast! I wana say the Amarr empire would take the field at the end of the day, but not without heavy losses.
Rain6639 Team Evil 174	Posted - 2013.02.05 06:49:00 - [19] - Quote no! I've watched the movies, therefore I have the intel. EDM? you mean EFM
baltec1 Bat Country 5029	Posted - 2013.02.05 12:56:00 - [20] - Quote It would be an even fight if not for the poor gunnery skills of the stormtroopers

mama guru Thundercats The Initiative. 90	Posted - 2013.02.05 13:04:00 - [21] - Quote Thats not a mushroomed shaped asteroid... Thats a starship. ______ EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Rain6639 Team Evil 177	Posted - 2013.02.05 14:09:00 - [22] - Quote http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1302/headtohead.jpg EDM? you mean EFM
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 1834	Posted - 2013.02.05 16:45:00 - [23] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1302/headtohead.jpg That look less like a empires head to head...and more like the old Incredible Hulk tv show.... *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Mizhir Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 3615	Posted - 2013.02.05 16:51:00 - [24] - Quote Well, I guess the Amarr empire can just use the typical RnK setup. The Archon backbone will make it hard to break their ships and the refitting allows the to use smartbombs to clear out Fighters. The Logi Pilot we need... Not the Logi Pilot we deserve
Rain6639 Team Evil 179	Posted - 2013.02.05 19:56:00 - [25] - Quote see! smartbombs EDM? you mean EFM
Charlepetit LaJoie Trust Me Ltd 236	Posted - 2013.02.05 20:20:00 - [26] - Quote The Galactic Empire had great small fighters, but terrible Fleet Commanders, and I don't remember them ever accomplishing much with any of their midsized ships. Other posters have pointed out the great advantage of remote repair ships in the Amarr fleet. I'm betting on the Amarr to win. (The after-battle videos would look pretty classy. Black ships vs. golden ships.) Khergit Deserters wrote: Besides, the Empire has The Force, Dark Side of. Amarr have no Force in them whatsoever. ItGÇÖs a good point, but the Sith donGÇÖt seem to have bothered much with the direct command of fleet battles during the time period of the Galactic Empire. Darth Vader himself usually abandoned command to the admirals while he bopped about in TIE fighters or led small parties of Stormtroopers. So I am discounting the influence of the Force. Besides, the Empress says that God is on the side of the Amarr. Top that.
Rain6639 Team Evil 179	Posted - 2013.02.05 20:24:00 - [27] - Quote Vader's a glory seeker lol EDM? you mean EFM
Eurydia Vespasian Nova Insula Mining and Industrial 850	Posted - 2013.02.05 20:47:00 - [28] - Quote the Nerd is strong with these ones. no, seriously. i only understand about half this thread. i seem to remember at some point being told that each star destroyer in star wars was like a mile long. and that the "super" variety was like 9 miles. i get no impression of that kind of size in our ships. even the big ones. hundreds of guns on each. as far as the repair ship idea goes, i think they would just target/jam/tractor whatever they do those ships when they find out what they are up to and take them out first. plus the empire likes to blow up planets and stuff. so idk, judging by what i've heard and been exposed to regarding star wars vs what i've seen in EvE...i'd hazard the guess that the star wars ships would wipe their asses with EvE ships and not even bother with the dingleberry-esque drones.
Thgil Goldcore Advenus Classem Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 523	Posted - 2013.02.05 21:16:00 - [29] - Quote I think people take the remote repair bit out of context a little. True, amarr ships can repair armor, big help for sure. But that isn't to say that the star wars ships have no defenses at all. I would wager that the Star Wars ships have quite decent defenses at the end of the day.... just more shields Star wars ships dont have armor at all... not in the same sense of the Empire where that is their main source of defense. And the Star wars ships shields DO recharge at quite a fast rate.... although the shields only protect against large blasts, its why small fighters are able to effectively destroy hard-points on the Star Destroyers, although not do significant damage to the ships themselves. Another thing star wars does implment is boarders. Star destroyers do have a rather large complement of fighting troops while the Amarr ships really dont have anything significant in terms of ways to repel such a thing. Since we aren't talking about pod ships (just standard amarr navy ships), there would be alot of internal damage that could be done by a squad of gunny storm-troopers... Although admittedly finding their way aboard may be a tall order... More so if the ship doesn't have a drone bay. I still think the Amarr empire would win. Be a great fight though.
Ila Dace Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 242	Posted - 2013.02.05 21:23:00 - [30] - Quote There are basically two likelihoods: One: We send AndrewZ Inv in his Arbitrator with three or four reships... he wipes the whole fleet as nothing can hit him with the TD bonus. When they get lucky, he comes back in another one... or Two: Emperor: What do you mean we no longer have an Empire?!? Vader: Apparently General Podus was actually a spy named A55Master HueHue. He disbanded the alliance and created a corporation named The Empire. We can't access the Death Star and he reprocessed all the Star Destroyers. Emperor: Who gave him roles? Vader: You did... You had six Flaming Gundarks with General Podus and thought he was "an awesome dude" after he went out force choking with you. Emperor: He's not a Sith though. Vader: He had some alts that pretended to suffocate when he wiggled his fingers at them. Emperor: The shall PAY!!! If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

Rain6639 Team Evil 180	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:50:00 - [31] - Quote HAHAHHAHAHA EDM? you mean EFM
Otrebla Utrigas Iberians Iberians. 43	Posted - 2013.02.06 09:56:00 - [32] - Quote Each Amarr Geddon (which is about 1k long) has 8 laser turrets. A single Star destroyer (1.6 km long and much more mass) has 60 turbolaser turrets and 60 ion cannon turrets. Turbolaser are more plasma cannons than lasers, so they are like artilleries with plasma ammo, and ion are EM pure damage which can disable electronic devices (no more ghost in the shell for you capsuleer!). And after that, they have 4 super heavy turrets on both sides of the superstructure, rarely used in the movies because they can only hit things big and slow (like you know... amarr BSs) This without counting the fighter compliment which can be considered equal to carrier one man ship figthers (TIEs) and fighter bombers (TIE bomber) 72 fighters each, all capable of being fielded at the same time. And don't get me started in case they bring their advanced models (Adv, Defender...) And the support ships can range from Victory star destroyers (900 m long destroyers specialized in planetary bombardment and missile deployement, think drakes) to assault cruisers (think Zealots) and lancer frigates (Think thrashers) Each lancer frigate has 40 quad AA laser batteries, and one of them can just wipe the floor with a full X wing squadron. Only one of them can shred light and medium drones fast and hard. They have their own titans (Super star destroyers) which is also a Mothership (like 500 fighters onboard, all deployed at the same time) Forget about Cap warfare, Destroyer reactor has a medium star range power output. Also, they don't "warp" so in case you focus fire, the sieged ship will just jump out and come back later. You can't tackle them, except if you have interdiction fieds (gravitational) I'm not saying that the Empire will roflstomp the Amarr, but I don't think the amarr will have a chance against a fleet with the similar characteristics.
Brujo Loco Brujeria Teologica 600	Posted - 2013.02.06 22:45:00 - [33] - Quote The Hobbits would win with their Continuum Transfunctioner fueled by Dalek tears! Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
Rain6639 Team Evil 183	Posted - 2013.02.07 01:22:00 - [34] - Quote super star destroyers vs titans do it. do it. DO it. DO IT. EDM? you mean EFM
Eurydia Vespasian Nova Insula Mining and Industrial 859	Posted - 2013.02.07 03:23:00 - [35] - Quote the star destroyer simply looks like it makes more sense. if a 19 kilometer long space vessel can be said to make sense at all. i suppose if they couldn't take each other other out with weapons and such they could just resort to greek and roman warfare tactics of simply ramming each other. in which case the gallente ship looks to have a distinct advantage. lol
Rain6639 Team Evil 183	Posted - 2013.02.07 03:55:00 - [36] - Quote the death star mark II (the unfinished one) is 190KM in diameter, but there's only one of them. EDM? you mean EFM
Thgil Goldcore Advenus Classem Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 523	Posted - 2013.02.07 05:20:00 - [37] - Quote looking at that size comparison, it does remind me of another battle of empires I plan on doing... The IOM (Imperlium of man... warhammer 40k) vs the Amarr empire.
Otrebla Utrigas Iberians Iberians. 44	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:58:00 - [38] - Quote Thgil Goldcore wrote: looking at that size comparison, it does remind me of another battle of empires I plan on doing... The IOM (Imperlium of man... warhammer 40k) vs the Amarr empire. I'm very sorry, but the Imperium frigates are bigger than an Armageddon, while capital ships are in ranges of 16 to 20 km. Also, one of their standard cruisers, Lunar class, has the dreaded Nova cannon, which in fact is a very, very big railgun fit on the ship keel which shoots high yield nuclear bombs. Anti ship weapons range is from gun batteries (literally hundreds of turrets) to lances, high power lasers, capable of tearing a frigate (remember, imperium frigates are bigger than EvE battleships!!) in one shot. And torpedoes, which are 110 and 150 m long EACH, with a triple stage warhead. The first stage breach the hull, the rear stage propels the warhead into the breach, and the central one detonates inside the hull of the damaged ship. Not to mention Boarding torpedoes filled with Speishhh Merinnssss BUT (and this is a very big but) the Imperium of mankind is very slow, and most of the bigger ships are like relics and they are produced very, very slowly (if produced at all) while in EvE in case of warfare and profit, Industrials all around could just mass produce anything to replace the losses. Also almost all their fleets are commited to fight threats around the vast domain of the Imperium. So in the small picture, the Imperium can win due to massive firepower. But in the long term, EvE would win the attrition war. Holy **** I'm such a Nerd I don't know if I should feel proud or ashamed
Thgil Goldcore Advenus Classem Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 523	Posted - 2013.02.07 20:34:00 - [39] - Quote Yeah, the size thing does make it hard to compare... but the amount of 'heresy' that will be shouted during the battle is just... awsome... Although there is always a chance the IOM ships will just get sucked into the warp and TKO themselves. Also IOM ships idea of defenses is their hull and void shields. Void shields, for the uninitiated, are basically a barrier which has a send hostile projectiles to the warp (hell... in layman terms), most the time. Its not like shields in eve where they take damage until depleted. Void shields either work and send the attack to the warp (entirely negating the attack, no matter how large)... Or they don't... and the attack just slams right into the hull doing critical system damage. So the Titans doomsday weapon is either going to seriously mess with the ship, or be laughed off. An ships for the 40k universe are very unstable beasts which draw their energy from the aforementioned warp. So that is something that would NEED to be taken into account in a battle. They also have no FTL travel beyond powerful pskyers pulling the entire ship into the warp and then (hopefully) pulling it back out where they want to be. Every trip, even short ones like from one planet to another within a solar system, requires this slow and dangerous process. I am going to give a break for the IOM by saying that the light of astardes reaches the system in question, otherwise Chaos invasion would be a guarantee. The weapons of the IOM ships are quite formidable. One of those torpedo smashing into even a titan would surely cause fatal damage. Although luckily for the Amarr, they are counter-able. The torpedoes are very VERY slow and the turrets of Amarr ships would have little trouble tracking and destroying them (although the damage they would cause from the shock-wave should not be underestimated. Likely their deadliest weapon against Amarr ships though would be the stormravens, small bording ships designed to smash into the hulls of hostile craft and deliver space marines inside. As noted against the Star Destroyers... The Amarr empire has NO significant defense against borders. A single kill team boarding a Amarr ship would spell its doom without question. The space marines would likely go unchallenged and frankly would tear apart any resistance with no trouble at all... Even if for some reason it had a squad of dust bunnies on board. SO IOM V Amarr... I would give it to the IOM, although they would take losses. on that matter, Amarr V Starwars...Good fight, pretty even on all sides, but Amarr empire would likely carry the day. And lastly IOM v Starwars... Heh heh heh. Theres no chance in hell for starwars.


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