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simukz
11
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Posted - 2013.02.05 00:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I am finally reading the CSM minutes,
From ~6 - 10 pages, The instigators conversation starts... and middle of page 10 an obvious issue began to form in my mind...
Quote: Kelduum asked why CCP found it challenging to tell whether the one person with 5 characters and 5 accounts in his own corporation was actually just a single person.
there are so MANY small corps just for that reason so a single player and or few of his close friends could share his stuff with his other accounts or his friends.
thus you get all these "solo" or "duo" player corps, with players who dont participate in a bigger picture of the game because the only obvious game mechanic allowing to easily share items is a Corp
i can name about 4 cases like that, how many can you think of? how would it affect the game having an ability to share hanger with anther player and thus being able to join a bigger corp instead of forming one for minuscule reason as sharing? <<< read before you respond >>> |
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
10
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Posted - 2013.02.05 02:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
simukz wrote: only obvious game mechanic allowing to easily share items is a Corp
In station: Right-click > Trade.
In space: Jetcan Fleet hangar in a proper ship |
Caldari 5
The Element Syndicate
24
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Posted - 2013.02.05 02:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Actually allot of the Small HS Corps(or at least the ones that I've come across) are normally Research Alts with a POS :) |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1112
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Posted - 2013.02.05 03:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well I have to ask, as is the case in many of these threads, what exactly is the problem?
What is this "bigger picture" that apparently you seem to think we all should be contributing to?
Many small corps are a few friends, as you say. Sometimes they find more friends and grow, create alliances. Sometimes they just enjoy each others company and play this game the way they enjoy. I fail to see how this has a negative impact on the game.
FWIW, many of these small corp types wouldn't be the type to join some uber large alliance to begin with. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force
162
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Posted - 2013.02.05 03:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Can someone please point out to me where the stigma of solo players / small corporations / npc corps has suddenly come from? Did someone post a blog about it somewhere?
I don't really see how it effects the game so much for some people. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
102
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Posted - 2013.02.05 03:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Can someone please point out to me where the stigma of solo players / small corporations / npc corps has suddenly come from? Did someone post a blog about it somewhere?
I don't really see how it effects the game so much for some people.
funny thing is they are doing what all the the "hardcores" are telling them to do...not be in npc corps. damned if you do, damned if you don't lol.
And the one mans are more than jsut item sharing. its the wallet with tabs. Feature I like for my one man. My indy side line has its own tab. If I cba to dig up excel atm...I know if I bought stuff to make 3 ships on tuesday the market cost they need to be at the minumum will be tuesdays start balance minus tuesdays end balance once all the parts and jobs put in are paid for.
Mission runner puts into a general tab, I see my takes. Mt trade alt's money goes into another tab. basic stuff like this to get a better handle on my expenses and income not spamming filters under only 1 wallet.
Its the pos ability as well.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1112
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Posted - 2013.02.05 03:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Can someone please point out to me where the stigma of solo players / small corporations / npc corps has suddenly come from? Did someone post a blog about it somewhere?
I don't really see how it effects the game so much for some people.
People burned out on the AFK cloaking idea?
Maybe something in the CSM notes? Most of the CSM are from big 0.0 alliances so I would imagine they are biased against the little guy. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
102
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Posted - 2013.02.05 04:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Maybe something in the CSM notes? Most of the CSM are from big 0.0 alliances so I would imagine they are biased against the little guy.
actually the 0.0 people usually run small one man corps of alts in empire for thier side isk ventures. Stuck on a pos bash quite a few times with the ice miner running alt alt tabbed myself. Or the freighter pilot off to jita to sell stuff I made. I am not the only one who did this for sure.
The little guy haters tend to come from the empire war dec bear crews. Too many to war dec and those they dec if looking to be empire 4 life could care less if ther corp history has 200 corps in it with drops (too many corps a bad sign to 0.0 recruiters) Or if inventors/builders....the alt hauler in a npc corp can run the haulers at will lol, no skin off thier nose really. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
412
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Posted - 2013.02.05 04:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
A lot of them were in NPC corps until the 11% tax hit. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
472
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Posted - 2013.02.05 05:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
I was under the impression that small corps are around because 90% of Eve players are robbing bastards that will steal anything not nailed down the try smacking talking about how awesome they are in local for a week. So most people choose to ignore that part of the game, and stick to close friends and alts.
Odd that for an MMO, playing however you want and all. Next people will be complaining about mineral prices and the endless bot armies causing mining to be worthless again..... wait a minute.
O nonsense thread, the 30 seconds of chuckle you gave me were not worth the 5 minutes of reading you. Alas. Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head. |
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
534
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Posted - 2013.02.05 10:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:I was under the impression that small corps are around because 90% of Eve players are robbing bastards that will steal anything not nailed down the try smacking talking about how awesome they are in local for a week. So most people choose to ignore that part of the game, and stick to close friends and alts.
Odd that for an MMO, playing however you want and all. Next people will be complaining about mineral prices and the endless bot armies causing mining to be worthless again..... wait a minute.
O nonsense thread, the 30 seconds of chuckle you gave me were not worth the 5 minutes of reading you. Alas.
I'm pretty sure using italics, strange attempts at poetic language and the use of the word "alas" makes your point of view invalid. |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
583
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Posted - 2013.02.05 11:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
dnt see what the problem is...or what the bigger picture is supposed to be.
u even get 1-man corps in RL. just ask jimmy carr |
Sasha Khaine
Dr. Wolfgang
100
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Posted - 2013.02.05 11:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
I made a corp because NPC corp chat annoys me and also 0% tax :) I don't know If I will make anything out of it just yet but theres a chance in the future!
Welcome to EVE"The entire British empire was founded on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one, mate. You're sadly mistaken" |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
42
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Posted - 2013.02.05 12:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have one of these corporations :P
The most common reason is meta gaming in my opinion. It's realy hard to keep your assets safe from opportunists and idiots. Having an assets corporation makes life alot easier cause you can't create personal stuff inside a bigger corporation from where you could share what you have and keep them safe while sharing them. EVE actually has different fancy things in the UI like personal pos and stuff like this but they have never been implemented or they don't work correctly. so making a new corp for alts and friends is alot easier than to try to tell CCP and you people that we would need a change so that assets could be shared more easily and safely. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries
290
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Posted - 2013.02.05 12:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
OP, keep reading the minutes. You seem to have inadvertently taken a comment about solo/alt corps as CCP looking to discourage them. Keep reading and they point out that even as a 1 man corp, they are part of the community and they contribute.
Oh, and to the guy who made the robbing bastards comment, totally on the money and cheers for the chuckle. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Fade 2 Black
359
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Posted - 2013.02.05 16:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
A big reason to create a small corp is to make friends and gather people towards the same goal....
But the sov mechanisms and the BLOB is killing this... And killing the game... that is why there should be a revamp in POS, and a Revamp in the Sov... else... cpp will end up only with their blob players...
Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
simukz
12
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Posted - 2013.04.02 19:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
It seams I did not explained myself.
Why I got back to highsec 3 times, and what keeps holding me there, is that when I get someone interested to try out the game, they need help with stuff and show off the cool toys they could have. Yes I could straight up grab them an take them to 0.0, but it is not for everyone. But I dont want to be in highsec. So now, I have been forced to create alts to actually play the game. And since my friends have stopped playing my main is now stuck and doing nothing just playing skill training online. Because the second I move out, some coworker of mine will go "oh i would like to try out this game". So I just wish I could share some my high-sec assets with RL friends with out being part of the corp.
Sol Weinstein wrote: Offline: Contracts (before you complain about the cost, there is a cost to form a PRC and a cost to hold an office (rent) in that station. The small fees for creating a contract with no exchange of ISK, could probably never compare to the rental cost of an office in any normal traffic system.)
online options work great, but there is no offline alternative to Contracts. If i could create contracts through crest with my phone... then contracts could work.
rent is dirt cheap... unless you are renting in high end mission hubs. My offices are in level 1 mission stations for new players. <<< read before you respond >>> |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
50
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Posted - 2013.04.02 20:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:simukz wrote: only obvious game mechanic allowing to easily share items is a Corp
In station: Right-click > Trade. In space: Jetcan Fleet hangar in a proper ship Offline: Contracts (before you complain about the cost, there is a cost to form a PRC and a cost to hold an office (rent) in that station. The small fees for creating a contract with no exchange of ISK, could probably never compare to the rental cost of an office in any normal traffic system.) You're confusing exchange with share... /facepalm |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
50
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Posted - 2013.04.02 20:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:What is this "bigger picture" that apparently you seem to think we all should be contributing to? It is what you do in EVE, when you put your life, work and family into backburner. |
El Geo
Pathfinders. The Marmite Collective
81
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Posted - 2013.04.02 22:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:A big reason to create a small corp is to make friends and gather people towards the same goal....
But the sov mechanisms and the BLOB is killing this... And killing the game... that is why there should be a revamp in POS, and a Revamp in the Sov... else... cpp will end up only with their blob players...
i have only been in a few alliances, the bigger sov holding alliances i did not enjoy being in at all, not one bit, the smaller corps/alliances i enjoyed being part of much more.
The thing to remember is some players like to feel like they are part of something, like they could make a difference as opposed to my feeling of being in a powerbloc just to be a nameless number amongst the sheep. path-+find-+er (pthfndr, p+๑th-)n. 1. One that discovers a new course or way, especially through or into unexplored regions.
http://www.youtube.com/user/EvEPathfinders/videos?view=0 |
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paritybit
Rote Kapelle
149
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Posted - 2013.04.02 22:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't think small corporations are a problem (neither does simukz if I'm reading it right). The problem is that lack of ability to "share" resources between characters leads players to set up small corporations to solve those problems. And that can to withdrawl from interaction with other players. At least that's how I'm reading the original post.
I can vouch for this being the case to a small degree with me. This character is well established in a player corporation as part of a player alliance, but I find it difficult to share between this character and my others who are primarily dedicated to making isk. The rest are holed up in a small corporation because that makes it VERY easy to share between characters even on the same account because I can just store everything in my corporation hangar; this becomes very important when you're dealing with expensive resources like those necessary to keep an industrial group running. And because it's all me, I don't have to worry about stealing from myself. There are even a few people who are not me that I'd probably share this with if I was able.
However, if I could share between my characters without this silly shell corporation, they would all be in player corporations. If I could rent a "shared hangar" where I could drop stuff and isk instead of renting a corporate office I would do it and pop all of my (at least those that make sense) into a player corporation.
I think it's a great idea. I don't know if it's a high priority, but I think it would cut down on these types of factors limiting involvement.
If I was to design this feature (I'm not a game designer), I'd probably make it so that one player could rent an office for himself instead of for his corporation, and then invite others to use it, or a specific division of it. |
Grigori Annunaki
22
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
I have my own small corp to do POS stuff, particularly T2 invention and manufacturing. I'm very leery of sinking billions into parts, BPOs, datacores, etc. when I could be booted at any time and lose it all. Plus, it's a lot of trust to give someone the roles I would need to do what I do. If I could still own a POS for myself and my small army of alts, I'd join a bigger corp in an instant. Otherwise, I'm stuck being a small corp on my own or under an alliance banner. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
438
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Posted - 2013.04.03 11:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Grigori Annunaki wrote:I have my own small corp to do POS stuff, particularly T2 invention and manufacturing. I'm very leery of sinking billions into parts, BPOs, datacores, etc. when I could be booted at any time and lose it all. Plus, it's a lot of trust to give someone the roles I would need to do what I do. If I could still own a POS for myself and my small army of alts, I'd join a bigger corp in an instant. Otherwise, I'm stuck being a small corp on my own or under an alliance banner. Exact same situation right here. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
DitchDigger
Hibi Proletariat
19
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Posted - 2013.04.05 14:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:simukz wrote: only obvious game mechanic allowing to easily share items is a Corp
In station: Right-click > Trade. In space: Jetcan Fleet hangar in a proper ship Offline: Contracts (before you complain about the cost, there is a cost to form a PRC and a cost to hold an office (rent) in that station. The small fees for creating a contract with no exchange of ISK, could probably never compare to the rental cost of an office in any normal traffic system.)
Your first 2 solutions require both players to be online and in the same place at the same time. Contracts are cumbersome and time-consuming. We need a simple way to share inventory. |
Plyn
Dominatus Imperium
57
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Posted - 2013.04.05 20:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
There is no problem with being in a small corp if that's what you want to do. The problem is when people stick with that corp because the mechanical constraints make it more attractive even though they would otherwise be glad to be part of a larger player-base.
It's a shame that people have to choose between larger groups of friends and the ability to share freely. However, there could be some serious technical hurdles to fixing these problems. In my mind's eye I can picture friend's hangars showing up in a similar fashion to corp office hangars, based on access control lists which are customizable by players. Easy to see, but could create some serious friction with database calls, and, for all we know as players, the concept might be completely barred by some restrictions already present in the code. Hossenfeffer. |
Otto3d
Aerospace Corporation
2
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Posted - 2013.04.06 00:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
simukz wrote:So I am finally reading the CSM minutes, From ~6 - 10 pages, The instigators conversation starts... and middle of page 10 an obvious issue began to form in my mind... Quote: Kelduum asked why CCP found it challenging to tell whether the one person with 5 characters and 5 accounts in his own corporation was actually just a single person.
there are so MANY small corps just for that reason so a single player and or few of his close friends could share his stuff with his other accounts or his friends. thus you get all these "solo" or "duo" player corps, with players who dont participate in a bigger picture of the game because the only obvious game mechanic allowing to easily share items is a Corpi can name about 4 cases like that, how many can you think of? how would it affect the game having an ability to share hanger with anther player and thus being able to join a bigger corp instead of forming one for minuscule reason as sharing? and what happened to the single log on and deals for players with multiple accounts that was mentioned at fanfest?
Is there a suggestion or idea stated here? Or is this just a simple complaint that serves no purpose in this part of the board? |
Lugia3
Pirates Incorporated
369
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Posted - 2013.04.06 04:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
I made my corporation so that me and my alts can be bad-ass griefing pirates together. Yarr |
Valleria Darkmoon
Heretic Army Atrocitas
117
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Posted - 2013.04.06 05:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
When I started playing back in 2008 a few of us started playing together and formed a small corp exactly because it allowed us to dump all the loot from roams into a communal corp hangar so when ships were lost we could replace our fits off the looted fits in the hangar. It was just a convenience for us and if you're wanting to share assets with only a few people in your alliance then you can just trade with them.
I don't see how this is a problem or even what this thread is really about. The greatest part of this game is that your contribution is whatever you want it to be. I assume by contributing to the larger scope of things you mean join a large null alliance and their NAP/lag fests? No, thanks.
It's not as if what I do doesn't have an impact on any given situation in null sec, however minor. Any time there has been a major conflict I've been accused by both sides of working for the other. In reality, I'm just kind of a rogue element, I've never worked with any major alliance but at any time I might destroy something that hinders or helps one side or the other and that's how I like it. |
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