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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
176
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
So after CCP is done rebalancing battleships and command ships ( http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530 ) are carriers and dreadnoughts next?
Here are my opinions on the carriers/dreadnoughts.
Archon - Good for armor PvP Chimera - Good for shield PvP? Thanatos - Good for PvE/Decent for PvP Nidhoggur - Not so Good
Revelation - Good (Low ammo usage) Phoenix - Terrible Moros - Great for tracking setups Naglfar - Not so good
The lack of a tanking bonus seems to put Thanatos/Nidhoggur at a disadvatage, but the fighter damage bonus seems to make up for it on the thanatos.
Maybe capital missles are the problem with dreadnoughts. Split weapon systems seem to be a valid concern on the Naglfar.
Maybe some of the more experienced capital pilots have some insight as to whats good/bad with the carriers and dreadnoughts? Not today spaghetti. |
Mizhir
Red Federation
3726
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
mmmmh Cakes
on topic: they will get there eventually. But I think they will overhaul t2 ships before moving to caps. The Logi Pilot we need... Not the Logi Pilot we deserve |
Alice Saki
29029
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Moros.
Also Cake I lack any Moral Fiber :D |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
176
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Moros. Also Cake
I thank you for your in depth views and opinions on the subject and wish you a wonderful day. Not today spaghetti. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2177
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Missiles upwards of cruise/torps.
Cake for me too... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3657
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Due to how utterly terrible capital missiles are, I doubt there's anything they could do to the phoenix to make it more viable for anything but structure bashing. The only thing I'd do as far as the structure bashing goes is to change the kinetic bonus to a straight damage bonus to all missiles so that it becomes a selectable damage type (better for POS bashes). Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Jassmin Joy
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
60
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Every dread is sub-par to the moros. even a moros pilot with not so great skills can out dps fully skilled naglfar (whats the plural to naglfar out of interest, naglfai?) And the revelation. The phoenix doesnt even compare to either, unless what you're shooting at has the signature radius of a small sun, or is incapable of movement it's useless, which is a shame because it's got great potential.
As for carriers. The Archon and chimera both have roles, they have something they're very good at and personally i see no issues with either, although cap managment vs shield boost can be a huge problem with shield caps that armour don't have to deal with. My issue with the other two carriers is that they lack a purpose or a role. The nid has the best rep out of all carriers but also one of the worst tanks, can't rep when it's dead. and the thanatos is some sort of out dated dps-carrier, for the amount they cost i'll just field a vindi if i need dps. The latter two these days are just glorified pos reps thanks to the mixed bonus.
Just my insight/moneys worth. |
Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1232
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dread re-balancing? Hey yeah - I know - give dreads the ability to use drones. Wait, what?
These ships have already been "rebalanced" lately. |
killorbekilled TBE
Initiated
217
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
they are working as intended which is shooting super structures and other capitals
overall capitals should and always be a low priority on CCP schedule :) |
Wacktopia
Noir. Black Legion.
450
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jassmin Joy wrote: (whats the plural to naglfar out of interest, naglfai?)
Naglf'ra ?
Reference The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures. |
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Danny John-Peter
New Eden Renegades Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
187
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Its probably worth pointing out that the Chimera is also pretty terrible, the Nidhoggur is actually a better shield Triage boat than it, the Thanny has a pretty useless bonus for a carrier and none of the carriers come anywhere near the Archon.
Also, the Rev is good, the Moros is probably a little OP. |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Nulli Legio
337
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Missile explosion velocity. Give capital missiles the ability to do more damage to targets of a smaller sig radius and it will go someway to fixing the problem. I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
Wacktopia
Noir. Black Legion.
450
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Personally I would just like a Carrier model that...
- Actually looks alrge enough to carry other ships around - Has a much hight text / poly map The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures. |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
308
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Give all capital ships an extra array of small and medium turret or missile slots and specialize main weapons even more as compensation.
That's 1 step forward towards becoming PROPER capital ships.
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ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers R O G U E
200
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Personally I would just like a Carrier model that...
- Actually looks alrge enough to carry other ships around - Has a much hight text / poly map
which also begs the question.... shouldnt the Caps be up for V'3'ing next?
i mean cap pilots are the ones that are gunna be staring at there caps for the longest time, may as well give them somethng pretty to look at rather than the strethced textured monstrositys they are starting to look like compared to the rest of the game now... witht he exception of station interiors... they are in pretty desperate need of a new look. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
177
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Dread re-balancing? Hey yeah - I know - give dreads the ability to use drones. Wait, what?
These ships have already been "rebalanced" lately.
How have they been "rebalanced' lately? Not today spaghetti. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
177
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Jassmin Joy wrote: (whats the plural to naglfar out of interest, naglfai?) Naglf'ra ? Reference
Naglfarses precious. Not today spaghetti. |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
373
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Posted - 2013.02.06 15:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'd like to see a bonus to the thanny for cap transfer tbh
beyond that, egh, capitals. |
Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1232
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Posted - 2013.02.06 16:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Ptraci wrote:Dread re-balancing? Hey yeah - I know - give dreads the ability to use drones. Wait, what?
These ships have already been "rebalanced" lately. How have they been "rebalanced' lately?
Lately as in 2 years ago. Google knows. |
Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
789
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Posted - 2013.02.06 17:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Caps are a bit of a quantum leap from battleships.
Leave them alone and create that missing content that bridges the gap between the two classes. --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |
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Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.02.06 17:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Carriers
- if Triage is the game, then Archon
- If non triage - Archon
- If pimped modules - Archon then Chimera
- If PVE - oh FFS - why? Maybe Than, Archon or Chimera - depends on WH.
- If repping POS shiields - Nid, Chimera, Than - what a great game!
So - as a Nid pilot - forget triage:
- Crap tank
- Cant fit to rep while tanking on same rep type.
- Cant cap transfer with your appallingly low cap and range.
- Always primary in fleet fights.
Dreads
- Moros - DPS monster
- Revelation - Good DPS, low ammo, no reloads.
- Chimera - Damage Type Pure, structures only.
- Naglfar - Looks, stupid training time. Nothing else.
Supers
- Armour tanked - fine, the support fleet are all archons giving you cap to jump and reps to live.
- Shiled tanked - primary! Ha Ha, your support dies rapidly, your ship is gone, your corpmates love you as they never get primaried.
Its bordering on a joke how bad Minmatar are, how crap Capital Missiles are, and yet its been ... ooo - hard to say - how many years since people started complaining about cap imbalance - armour doctrine is the only doctrine - DONT TRAIN MINMATAR CAPITALS, DO TRAIN AMARR/GALLENTE.
How to fix. Fitting on Chimera, fix Capital Missiles for velocity, scrap Nid and Nag - reassign points to any other Amarr or Gallente cap as appropriate - but let them reskin the space potato Moros to the old Nag Skin. |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
282
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Posted - 2013.02.06 17:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
As far as the Nagelfar and Phoenix goes, they need to be changed into pure projectile and hybrid platforms, the SP for capital torps and cruises reimbursed and the modules removed.
For those 2 to be unable to adapt to changing cap doctrines because of missiles is just unacceptable. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2928
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Posted - 2013.02.06 18:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
I want a 7.5% active tank bonus on my Nidhoggur to help define it as a triage carrier. I'd also like to see the RR bonus upped to 7.5% to make up for it's ****** capacitor. A bit more fittings so that you can armor fit+armor RR or shield fit + shield RR would be great too.
As to the Phoenix and Naglfar: I don't think capital missiles are fixable as a concept.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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AyayaPanda
15 Minute Outliers Novus Dominatum
15
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Posted - 2013.02.06 18:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fozzie: we're not yet close enough to implementing cap changes to start giving ETAs What I can assure you of though is that when we do rebalance caps and supercaps, the weakness of the Minmatar versions will be near the top of our priorities.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482140#post2482140 |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
177
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Posted - 2013.02.06 18:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I want a 7.5% active tank bonus on my Nidhoggur to help define it as a triage carrier. I'd also like to see the RR bonus upped to 7.5% to make up for it's ****** capacitor. A bit more fittings so that you can armor fit+armor RR or shield fit + shield RR would be great too. As to the Phoenix and Naglfar: I don't think capital missiles are fixable as a concept. -Liang Ed: Disclaimer, as a max skilled Nidhoggur pilot I've been told triage fleets would rather see a carrier 3 / supports at 3 Archon.
Would fit into the Minmatar style of play if you could armor or shield tank/rep it.
Maybe we can get a quick fix like black ops are getting in 1.1? :D Not today spaghetti. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
91
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Posted - 2013.02.06 18:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Also Cake
The cake is a lie. To repeat, the skill split is scheduled for the big Summer 2013 expansion. ~CCP Fozzie |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
4
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Posted - 2013.02.06 18:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I want a 7.5% active tank bonus on my Nidhoggur to help define it as a triage carrier. I'd also like to see the RR bonus upped to 7.5% to make up for it's ****** capacitor. A bit more fittings so that you can armor fit+armor RR or shield fit + shield RR would be great too. As to the Phoenix and Naglfar: I don't think capital missiles are fixable as a concept. -Liang Ed: Disclaimer, as a max skilled Nidhoggur pilot I've been told triage fleets would rather see a carrier 3 / supports at 3 Archon.
Isnt it already 7.5 on RR per level?
And thats whats sad - it isnt even close to enough to make the Nid good.
As noted - dont train anything capital other than Amarr and Gallente |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2928
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Posted - 2013.02.06 18:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rab See wrote:Isnt it already 7.5 on RR per level?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Nidhoggur
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
432
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Posted - 2013.02.06 20:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Dread re-balancing? Hey yeah - I know - give dreads the ability to use drones. Wait, what?
These ships have already been "rebalanced" lately.
Yes, and taking away drones from dreads and supers was such a great idea?
Sorry, Nerfing Supers and Dreads was a Band-aid fix for the real issue, absurd amounts of isk in the system. And a year later, they still haven't done anything about the moon isk faucet.....
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3499
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Posted - 2013.02.06 23:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Ptraci wrote:Dread re-balancing? Hey yeah - I know - give dreads the ability to use drones. Wait, what?
These ships have already been "rebalanced" lately. Yes, and taking away drones from dreads and supers was such a great idea? Sorry, Nerfing Supers and Dreads was a Band-aid fix for the real issue, absurd amounts of isk in the system. And a year later, they still haven't done anything about the moon isk faucet..... Yes, actually, it was a very good idea from a game play perspective.
However I am in full agreement with everything you said after the first line. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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