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Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
661
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Posted - 2013.02.10 21:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello, I play eve online a lot... mainly as a tackler for PL... I have come to be very annoyed at a few "flaws" with the eve online mechanics/server ticks... mainly the fact that eve online runs at 1hz ticks.
This means that basicly everything that happens in space, in eve... only happens every 1 sec/1hz... Annoyance number 1: Modules activate 1 whole second after you get a confirmed lock on your target, this gives the target an entire extra server tick to warp away before you have them pointed/scrammed... to put this into perspective... if you take 1 sec to lock a target, it will actually take you 2 sec before they are pointed.... (some frigates are about to warp in less than 2 sec, making them almost impossible to catch without a bubble..... more to this later.......)...
Now for my main annoyance, t3 covert ops nulified to bubbles... I am very good at decloaking them, sadly the game mechanics also makes it very hard to point them before they warp... and for 2 reasons... first we have to actually get within 2km of them to decloak, I do this by using skirmish links and a fast dramiel with implants, going almost 9.5 km/s not overheated... this makes me able to pass straight through them, with the overview showing between 750m and 1500m sometimes... the entire time I am spamming lock by rapidly pressing ctrl, (where it will say I can't lock them because they are basicly in the process of cloaking)... Here comes the kicker... I am able to fly through them, and straight past them, having been in range to stop their cloaking and to decloak them... yet they wont be decloaked because I am going fast enough to cross the 2km range they will be decloaked (on both sides of their ship)... before the server tick registeres it, (1 sec = 9.5km distance traveled for me at max speed)
This happens to me the most, that I can pass through someone without decloaking them, often I can ask the person, and they would also have seen me within distances as close to 14m sometimes.
A covert t3 tengu can be made to warp in 3.1 sec or less with the right rigs, even down to 2.2s with the right implants.... this creates a scenario where it will always be impossible to decloak and tackle before they warp away, unless they spawn next to something after jumping through the gate...
My main problem with the engine is that these ships get away because the game is not "responsive enough". and I hope that we can get to see a eve with faster ticks within the next few years...
oh, and when you say we can just put cans or drones around the gate.. we tried that, 200 drones, and then a GM comes to remove them :3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue14P_2mxak ... I don't know if I am most annoyed at the fact that covert t3 can align so fast while warping cloaked and through bubbles, or the fact that the game is not responsive enough to allow them to be decloaked and tackled without putting a ton of objects around a gate Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
198
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Posted - 2013.02.10 21:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
tbh I think nullified t3s _should_ be almost uncatchable - I'm not quite sure given the nature of eve tho how to make it balanced. Given the cost and other variables IMO it would be terribly unbalanced if they were reliably catchable and kind of makes the role redundant. (For this reason I consider can/drone spamming a gate to extreme measures somewhat of an exploit even tho its against my nature really to condemn creative tactics).
Feel your pain tho on the tackle aspect bit of a slap in the face when you pull off an epic tackle, get the scrambled notification then watch them warp off anyhow. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1491
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Posted - 2013.02.10 22:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
i think increased update frequency would be well received in general, not only for tackling. For example: two kiting frigs which fight each other can move from max point range to scram range within one single server tick and you cant do anything about that.
Its like remote controlling a formula one race on mars from earth ;) a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
689
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Posted - 2013.02.10 22:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Click on point, click on target. No delay after locking.
We don't need twice as much lag. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
colera deldios
89
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Posted - 2013.02.11 01:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
How about if you are gonna gate camp you drop cans around the gate to prevent cloacking ? As there is a very simple solution to catching any Nullified and stabbed T3 what you propose is really, not a valid reason to up the feq. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
547
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Posted - 2013.02.11 02:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think .5 seconds would make a lot of things seem ten times smoother
But.. what about the blob? |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
6
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Posted - 2013.02.11 03:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:How about if you are gonna gate camp you drop cans around the gate to prevent cloacking ? As there is a very simple solution to catching any Nullified and stabbed T3 what you propose is really, not a valid reason to up the feq.
I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't appreciate spamming cans around the gate. When I say "don't appreciate", I actually mean "they don't want you doing it and will remove them." |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
336
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Posted - 2013.02.11 04:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Click on point, click on target. No delay after locking.
We don't need twice as much lag. this, what kind of moron, ESPECIALLY an "experienced" nullsec tackler, targets THEN activates? you activate WITH your target.
some people. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
631
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Posted - 2013.02.11 04:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Consider flying a slower ship? |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
662
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Posted - 2013.02.11 07:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Click on point, click on target. No delay after locking.
We don't need twice as much lag.
That is what I do always, apparently your too dim to notice the 1 sec delay from after you lock to when the pre fired modules actually activate... an problem I have made other threads about and videos proving the problem... which is in my signature... the delay is there and confirmed by ccp veritas
Also, twice as fast ticks does not mean twice as much lag...
As for getting a slower ship just because the engine can't support the faster ship... that's just stupid. Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
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Carniflex
StarHunt
30
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Posted - 2013.02.11 11:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think 2 Hz would be nice to have. Now, I'm no tackler, but it is annoying to me as well than when I carebear and end up, with, lets say, RoF of 7.2 seconds I am wasting large amounts of time (over the time of my carebearing session) reactivating my guns on next target when they pop.
Assuming it would be possible to increase the tick frequency without affecting the server performance hugely. If it is computationally costly then perhaps make the tick frequency function of a node load. For example, there is perhaps 20 guys in node, doing whatever they do, server ticks at 4 Hz, for example. Whoops, local spiked, the node hit, lets say 20% load, ticks slow down to 2 Hz, At 50% you drop it to 1 Hz, and when you hit 80% or more you can drop it probably as low as 0.2 Hz (altho thats already sort of into the time dilatation territory). |
suid0
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
3
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Posted - 2013.02.11 13:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Click on point, click on target. No delay after locking.
We don't need twice as much lag.
Not the first time I've seen you post bad/wrong advice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQ7yF4a4dg |
Jane Travelstar
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2013.02.12 01:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
I like the idea of having the tick-rate bumped up. |
Larloch TheAncient
Corporation for Public Broadcasting What Alliance
37
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Posted - 2013.02.12 22:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Supported, although for none of the OP's listed reasons.
I want my manual flying back! (to how it originally was)
(and who is the douche who said good fight in your vid? Is that what PL claims is a fight now days?) |
colera deldios
90
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Posted - 2013.02.12 23:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:colera deldios wrote:How about if you are gonna gate camp you drop cans around the gate to prevent cloacking ? As there is a very simple solution to catching any Nullified and stabbed T3 what you propose is really, not a valid reason to up the feq. I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't appreciate spamming cans around the gate. When I say "don't appreciate", I actually mean "they don't want you doing it and will remove them."
CCP does not care about you droping cans as eve server cluster is seperated by nodes so it only effects one node. And all unanchored cans in space are automatically removed by DT cleanup process. So your argument is really derp. |
Bum Shadow
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
21
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Posted - 2013.02.13 00:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm in 2 minds. More so about the example you give.
On one hand I hate gate camps and to make them even harder to escape is in my mind a bad idea.
However, the T3 being one of the best ships for this I think is also a bit ridiculous. To me, a T3 is too powerful a ship for this blockade running ability. This kind of blockade running capability should be for... blockade runners. Not an extremely capable at everything T3.
For the most part though, I think a nullsec gate camp is powerful enough.
As for the game tick. Hard to say, there would be an obvious computational requirement. And it may also make client ping more noticable where as currently your own ping doesnt really have a serious drawback. If the servers were running much faster Those players closer to the server may get that small vital edge.
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
0
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Posted - 2013.02.13 00:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
TLDR; My boosted Dramiel goes too fast and works against me. |
Gizznitt Malikite
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1797
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Posted - 2013.02.13 00:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
I understand your frustration... but I think enhancing the server tick rate to 2 hz actually will hinder game play...
Currently, lag spikes occasionally result in people getting locked before they can cloak... If you speed up the server tick rate, this will become much more common place... Given that this is a 1-server universe, where the majority of players don't even live on the same continent as the server, I think 1 hz is just about perfect.... |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
17
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Posted - 2013.02.13 09:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Click on point, click on target. No delay after locking.
We don't need twice as much lag. the thing is that the actual situation results in event reported in game, but not registered on server.
i've stopped counting the number of target that were pointed, but still managed to warp out.
and NO, they were not stabbed because this happen on pods, shuttles, or any other target that are pointed by a heavy dictor( so the nb of wcs they have is irrelevant).
the process is always the same, you lock and point it, notifications shows up, your mod run, you take sentrys (in low) BUT the ship still manage to warp out.
and this is getting worse and worse.
just yesterday night, i had 4 pods pointed, at 2 km from me, reported pointed by other corpmembers (we have heavy SEBOED ships), and still, they warped out, wich make 50% of the successfully pointed pod able to escape where they shall have been destroyed |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
17
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Posted - 2013.02.13 09:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:How about if you are gonna gate camp you drop cans around the gate to prevent cloacking ? As there is a very simple solution to catching any Nullified and stabbed T3 what you propose is really, not a valid reason to up the feq. no, this is not allowed by CCP, we did it using probes / massive drone blobs, with a pretty nice success, until a few of them petitionned.
CCP statement on this was clear => mechanic abuse, we were told not to do it anymore |
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Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
671
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Posted - 2013.02.13 12:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:colera deldios wrote:How about if you are gonna gate camp you drop cans around the gate to prevent cloacking ? As there is a very simple solution to catching any Nullified and stabbed T3 what you propose is really, not a valid reason to up the feq. no, this is not allowed by CCP, we did it using probes / massive drone blobs, with a pretty nice success, until a few of them petitionned. CCP statement on this was clear => mechanic abuse, we were told not to do it anymore Their actual statement is.. we are not allowed to create "excessive lag" it is okay to use objects for decloaking and such around a gate as long as you don't do that. However, there is no number on how many drones your allowed to drop for an example. So even 200 drones can be too many depending on the mood of the GM... this is a flawed policy, their own argument is that if they allow a certain amount of drones on a gate, then everyone will put that number of drones on ALL the gates in eve... that thinking is flawed also if you ask me, as only the people already doing it will continue doing it. Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
563
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Posted - 2013.02.13 12:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:How about if you are gonna gate camp you drop cans around the gate to prevent cloacking ?
This is considered as an exploit, if you get petitioned this might end bad for you. (of course depends on the number of cans/drones and GM mood) *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
18
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Posted - 2013.02.13 13:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:seth Hendar wrote:colera deldios wrote:How about if you are gonna gate camp you drop cans around the gate to prevent cloacking ? As there is a very simple solution to catching any Nullified and stabbed T3 what you propose is really, not a valid reason to up the feq. no, this is not allowed by CCP, we did it using probes / massive drone blobs, with a pretty nice success, until a few of them petitionned. CCP statement on this was clear => mechanic abuse, we were told not to do it anymore Their actual statement is.. we are not allowed to create "excessive lag" it is okay to use objects for decloaking and such around a gate as long as you don't do that. However, there is no number on how many drones your allowed to drop for an example. So even 200 drones can be too many depending on the mood of the GM... this is a flawed policy, their own argument is that if they allow a certain amount of drones on a gate, then everyone will put that number of drones on ALL the gates in eve... that thinking is flawed also if you ask me, as only the people already doing it will continue doing it. you are right, this is exactly how the GM explained the situation, and we came at the same conclusion as you regarding the number VS the GM mood, and the only way to be sure avoiding issues is to just not do it.
yes, this is flawed |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Black Legion.
26
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Posted - 2013.02.13 18:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:sabre906 wrote:Click on point, click on target. No delay after locking.
We don't need twice as much lag. this, what kind of moron, ESPECIALLY an "experienced" nullsec tackler, targets THEN activates? you activate WITH your target. some people. Sadly, for both of you, while your client 'thinks' you've achieved target lock and activated point, the server gives a resounding "NON!"
Manifesting itself in those circumstances where it appears you have a lock, but actually you can't do bugger all, target warps off then some scrub declares "ZOMG! you guys suck!"
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Cloora
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
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Posted - 2013.02.13 18:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:colera deldios wrote:How about if you are gonna gate camp you drop cans around the gate to prevent cloacking ? This is considered as an exploit, if you get petitioned this might end bad for you. (of course depends on the number of cans/drones and GM mood)
Well according to the petition I did of this about a year ago, the GM said it ISN'T an exploit as long as there is no excessive server lag from it.
I got caught in Aunenen by some pirates in a cloaky T3. I got away but I petitioned because I thought it was an exploit. Then I was told it was not. Then PL does it and we get our drones removed. vOv http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
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Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
674
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Posted - 2013.02.13 19:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:sabre906 wrote:Click on point, click on target. No delay after locking.
We don't need twice as much lag. this, what kind of moron, ESPECIALLY an "experienced" nullsec tackler, targets THEN activates? you activate WITH your target. some people. Sadly, for both of you, while your client 'thinks' you've achieved target lock and activated point, the server gives a resounding "NON!" Manifesting itself in those circumstances where it appears you have a lock, but actually you can't do bugger all, target warps off then some scrub declares "ZOMG! you guys suck!"
Well the server confirms the lock for all parties, (for the people who been locked even), but often are able to warp during this lock if you warp within 1 sec of the yellow box, if you ever jumped into a gate camp, you can often notice if you try to gate crash, that you will get yellow boxed, and then only after a sec all the points and webs will activate, giving most people enough speed to make it back. Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
marVLs
99
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Posted - 2013.02.13 20:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Seriusly? All about You want to be able to catch ship that's design to be not catchable and cost 10x more and SP loss when destroyed? With the most lame game mechanic in EVE (and probably all games ever released) - and yes, been there, done that, still think's it's just lame. Maybe someone should start topic: those dramiels are too fast!!!1 CCP make TiDi goes full when any ship on grid starts moving faster than 3km/s so i can easily put 3webs on him in time
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Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
674
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Posted - 2013.02.13 22:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
You guys need to stop acting like you know what will happen with 2hz ticks https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1570777#post1570777 read this post with veritas Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
343
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Posted - 2013.02.14 04:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Seriusly? All about You want to be able to catch ship that's design to be not catchable and cost 10x more and SP loss when destroyed? With the most lame game mechanic in EVE (and probably all games ever released) - and yes, been there, done that, still think's it's just lame. Maybe someone should start topic: those dramiels are too fast!!!1 CCP make TiDi goes full when any ship on grid starts moving faster than 3km/s so i can easily put 3webs on him in time they wont have to worry for long, after T3 nerf, nullified T3's (or any for that magtter) wont be sue danymore, sicne it would be more cost-efficient to fly T2.
then all they will ahve to whine about is blockade runners, cov ops, interceptors, etc. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
726
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Posted - 2013.02.14 05:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:sabre906 wrote:Click on point, click on target. No delay after locking.
We don't need twice as much lag. this, what kind of moron, ESPECIALLY an "experienced" nullsec tackler, targets THEN activates? you activate WITH your target. some people. Sadly, for both of you, while your client 'thinks' you've achieved target lock and activated point, the server gives a resounding "NON!" Manifesting itself in those circumstances where it appears you have a lock, but actually you can't do bugger all, target warps off then some scrub declares "ZOMG! you guys suck!"
Server activates point in the same tick that it determines lock is achieved, instead of [at best] the next tick if you activate point after locking. Ppl asked about this ages ago [naturally], and it was explained by CCP ages ago. And no, I'm not searching the old forums for you, go do it yourself.
In any case, no reason to change something so fundamental as server ticks, likely at great risk, for the sole purpose of giving kms to people who don't know how to avoid the extra tick and refuse to learn. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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