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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.08.05 12:03:00 -
[31]
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 05/08/2005 12:03:38 jup, ccp wanted to make the battle's take more time.
to bad they only nerfed 1 race in stead of all 4 of them at the same time. caldari is now " below average" they olrady where the worst miners and not good for gate camping/pvp now they suck in missions to! ( some lvl3 missions take me houres)
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Jet Collins
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Posted - 2005.08.05 19:30:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Jet Collins on 05/08/2005 19:32:26 I See the meaning of this post however I do not see how there is a fix that needs to be done?
I did not use Torps that much before patch so I don't recal the damage they put out on BS's than. Latly I have been using the torps a fair amount and feel that they are putting out alot of damage.
So I'm wondering what is the damage you people are expeting to get from Torps. One person above posted they have recieve 400-500 damage hits that is pretty good I think.
I don't recal my damage out put with torps but my skills are only at lvl 2 for torps and missles and I have receive damges in the 400's but maybe its because I use a t2painter on the BS's maybe this is what CCP wants. Just wondering. I just don't think its that buged for all the ranting going on in here.
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mimik
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Posted - 2005.08.06 01:03:00 -
[33]
from what i have experienced torps are just as effectve against BS simce the patch as they were before, with the new skills even more so, with one exception, their range is nowhere near what it was.
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Kickass
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Posted - 2005.08.06 01:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jet Collins Edited by: Jet Collins on 05/08/2005 19:32:26 I See the meaning of this post however I do not see how there is a fix that needs to be done?
I did not use Torps that much before patch so I don't recal the damage they put out on BS's than. Latly I have been using the torps a fair amount and feel that they are putting out alot of damage.
So I'm wondering what is the damage you people are expeting to get from Torps. One person above posted they have recieve 400-500 damage hits that is pretty good I think.
I don't recal my damage out put with torps but my skills are only at lvl 2 for torps and missles and I have receive damges in the 400's but maybe its because I use a t2painter on the BS's maybe this is what CCP wants. Just wondering. I just don't think its that buged for all the ranting going on in here.
You are missing the point, torps are not supposed to have reduced damage against certain battle ships. For instance I do 607.5 damage on Ravens/Apoc/Dominix with no resistance. But on say Arma I only do 551 which is not what the missle nerfs intentions were.
And if you think 400 or 500 damage is good divide that by your slow ROF and find out how sad it really is. Any gun boat will do more damage than you.
Far as range goes my torps are just as effective as before, so please talk about range on another thread.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.06 05:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: mimik from what i have experienced torps are just as effectve against BS simce the patch as they were before, with the new skills even more so, with one exception, their range is nowhere near what it was.
You are mistaken.
Fire 1 em torp against an APOC's untanked shields and it does more damage than 1 em torp against an Armageddon's untanked shields.
This is wrong and is not an intended feature.
Fix it. ----------------------------------------- wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
mimik
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Posted - 2005.08.06 08:14:00 -
[36]
u obviously misread my post - what i said was from my experience torps were just as effective.
i am not as obsessive as some people obviously who have to test every aspect of the game to try and make a point on forums.
some of u guys need to start having more fun and stop worrying so much about % differences.
its a game ffs.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.06 12:14:00 -
[37]
The point of this section of the forums is to point out problems and bugs with the game. This is a bug since it was not intended. If you don't care about it, there is no need to post. We have found a valid problem and are trying to bring it to the attention of the devs. There is no need to flame us for trying to do this. ----------------------------------------- wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
Sao Lear
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Posted - 2005.08.06 13:48:00 -
[38]
Why shouldn't the torps do less damage aginst smaller BS, That smaller signature radius is one of the features of the Tempest, Typhoon and Armageddon. You did 9.3% less damage with a torp on an arma than some of the larger BS, still doing more damage than any missile. I personally just consider this a feature of ship types that have a smaller sig, in that they will take a little less damage in some situations. I don't think in this cae that 9.3% is all that bad. Some cruisers are smaller than the sig of a heavy missile, and some frigs smaller than that of a light missile, meaning they get less than full damage, it is a factor of the game now, torps are the big payloads, but not the best at hitting smaller, or quick targets, structures and slow BS get lots of damage.
Long story short I think it is fine.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.06 15:38:00 -
[39]
You may well think its fine, but TomB has stated many times that torp dmg vs BS would be unchanged (except great with new skills).
----------------------------------------- wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
Gabby05
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Posted - 2005.08.06 17:47:00 -
[40]
I like how the caldari are complaining so much, probably starting to feel how frustrating it was for a gun boat to try and destroy a raven.
Most people say it wasnt ment to be. Has a dev actually said this or did you get that response from a GM?
To be good in a tempest you have to train most skills up to level 5, has anyone done this with the raven yet?
Adapt and/or pick another races ship if you cant work out how to work around it.
As for level 3 missions i cant hit any small frigs using turrets unless i pick a smaller turret with better dot or use a web.
Someone mentioned the caldari had crap miners or something, the osprey has 20% yield train the skill up to lvl 5 and you can mine as fast as a med barge.
Must be annoying to find out you actually have to train up those long boring skills to level 5 now.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.07 02:31:00 -
[41]
Your not contributing to this. There are plenty of ppl whining about the new missle changes in other parts of the forums. This is a GENUINE problem so quit flaming us. Most raven pilots had all the skills maxed before the patch. Its a pain, but its no big deal having some more. Its good infact cause of increased damage.
THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT MISSLE DMG VS FRIGS so quit mentioning it.
Its also not about missions.
Its about a small, but important problem with torp dmg vs battleships.
If you read the missle change threads tomB says many times that torp dmg vs bs will remain unchanged. Yet it was changed vs armas/tempest/typhoons. I believe this was by mistake. ----------------------------------------- wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.08.07 15:36:00 -
[42]
Edited by: d''hofren on 07/08/2005 15:36:23
Originally by: Dark Big
Quote: quoted by TOMB Torpedoes: Their base damage on average sized battleships does not change, Torpedoes are still able to deal the most damage to battleships and are the hardest missiles to counter, they are how ever not as fast as guided missiles, do not have the same possible range and damage is easier to reduce with ship velocity.
Just a heads up. The quote stipulates "Their base damage on average sized battleships does not change". The quote does not say "Their base damage on battleships does not change".
---
Originally by: Winterblink It's an online game. Online games are always populated at people who look at their wood elf and whine that everyone else's dagger is bigger than theirs.
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Taoza
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Posted - 2005.08.07 21:00:00 -
[43]
Sounds good d'hofren.
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CaptainSeafort
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Posted - 2005.08.08 08:11:00 -
[44]
but now, we have to decide what a normal size bs is :/
i would consider the smaller BSs to b the average sized ones, and the larger ones to b considered the tier2 big brothers, hence torp damage should remain unchanged
but yes, clarification on the wording plz, dev dude
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Jet Collins
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:00:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jet Collins on 08/08/2005 13:04:48 If you feel this is a bug than "you" have posted this in the wrong thread. Post it in the patch development Bugs forum not hear :P. This is not where you post bugs there is where you talk about ships and mods :P. I think the torps are fine from what people are saying above.
As said the Torp do full damage against the Largest of Battle ships. That is what was suppost to happen. Torps do less damage against the smalled BS's this also suppost to happen. Reasoning. Smaller battle ship has less signature radius and could possible be moving faster to get out of damage radius. So whats the Bugs here again pointing this out that this is not the thread to be posting bugs in.
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CaptainSeafort
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Posted - 2005.08.08 19:26:00 -
[46]
the bug is that they said that it would remain the same damage for average sized battleships, and that we all think that the tier1 ships are average sized, and so should get full damage done to them.
i mean, cmon, theyre all HUGE! :D
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Jet Collins
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Posted - 2005.08.09 12:38:00 -
[47]
So what you what to know from CCP is what is an "average" sized battle ship?.
Since it was stated in a Blog that Average sized battle ships would have no change in damage done by torps.
Currently Torps do less damage to tier 1 BS which would lead us to believe that Tier 2 battle ships are the "avarage" sized battle ship. Is this correct?
Thank you for your Responce CCP
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.10 03:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jet Collins So what you what to know from CCP is what is an "average" sized battle ship?.
Since it was stated in a Blog that Average sized battle ships would have no change in damage done by torps.
Currently Torps do less damage to tier 1 BS which would lead us to believe that Tier 2 battle ships are the "avarage" sized battle ship. Is this correct?
Thank you for your Responce CCP
Incorrect. Torps do full damage to Dominixs and Scorps. Also the tempest is a tier 2 bs and torp dmg is reduced vs tempest. Seems unfair. I think its a genuine mistake. The point was to nerf torp dmg vs smaller ships not larger ones. I think torps should do full dmg vs ALL bs and indys too. ----------------------------------------- wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
Caerleus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:52:00 -
[49]
As a new torp user and not a big PvP'r yet, I don't have too much knowledge on the exact thread content.
But...what I have noticed is that Torps are supposed to be the baddass weapon against anything big, like BS's (average or not) and surely structures.
Im getting decent damage against NPC BS's, but good grief...123.8 damage against a starbase????
Something is definately bugged with the torp maths when you cant do more damage than a 250mm proto rail against a 15km Caldari Starbase or Telescope!
It is interesting to note that the Arma's sig radius is only 370, compared to the scorpions 480....yet both have a volume of just over 1mil m3..and the Mega has a smaller sig radius than the Dominix...
The rule changes are for best, but, they need to iron out a few of these quirksome errors that seem to have appeared.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.11 12:44:00 -
[50]
Since we were a major factor in the reasoning behind the missle nerf (and the sole reason for the EW nerf) - the devs had alts in JQA, I don't think they are giving us much thought. It will take some normal people to convince them of these slight problems with torps are infact majorly unbalanced. ----------------------------------------- wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
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Ossprey
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Posted - 2005.08.12 07:08:00 -
[51]
Ive gpot all the new missile skills to Level 4 and find cruise missiles do a much higher DPS than torps and their volume is less than half so I say abandon torps and go Cruise as CCP won't un-Nerf Torps (Well seems like we are getting farther and farther away from RL situations) last time I checked the more Explosive you have the larger the Bang, so there goes RL physics out the window Dont matter to me though Any large gun takes out the frigs Faster than the torp's used too.
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SpeedoMan
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Posted - 2005.08.16 02:51:00 -
[52]
Come on devs... lots of rational feedback from players, and no comments from you yet ;)
The velocity "nerf" regarding missiles is a major problem, the sig-radius nerf with missiles now is even a more major problem. I've managed to get the skills up to L3/L4 at this point, and haven't hardly noticed any difference in damage, even against cruisers with heavy missiles, especially cruiser targets using AB or MWD.
Look, missiles are NOT supposed to be the same as turrets. Yes, new players could get into standard and heavy missiles quickly, and SOMETIMES do a better initial volley of damage (even tho Damage over Time SUCKED compared to turrets, always, always, mathematically proven time and time again)... the skill training of turrets & gunnery eventually would outpace missile damages in the same size class, for any initial volley. No one complained! Why? It was just all part of the tradeoff.
Very very few people used the Raven in PVP, and missiles only fitted out whatever slots you couldn't fit with turrets. There was a reason! Turrets were always better for PvP'ers whom usually had higher levels than new players in the skills. Anyone could warp away from missiles unless you scrambled them, and at relevant ranges for torps & cruise & even heavy missiles, scrambling was impossible.
Tradeoff, missiles were easy to get into when a new/middle-aged character in EVE, they had poor DOT but higher initial volley damage, they had less range per size class than long-range versions of turrets but could hit anything inside that range, they were slow to target and could be outrun, they could be 100% defended against with smartbombs, defenders, or warping away, they did consistent damage but again it was LESS than any size class turret's wrecking shot. Tradeoffs, balance.
Who cares if one ship was being used more often in some people's jealous eyes in L4 missions. Nerf the missions, nerf the pay, nerf the Raven ship bonuses or add different ones... don't nerf an entire effing race of ships [reducing the caldari powergrid, and increasing missile launcher fitting requirements], and nerf an entire class of weapons upon which most of one race (Caldari) and part of another (minmatar) are based.
Soban... red all the way through and through |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.08.16 21:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kickass I have filled petitions made posts and nothing, why is it so difficult to fix a bug? Or at least say it exhists and is going to be fixed in the next patch?
This has nothing to do with small targets all you forum *****s do not need to post telling me how to addapt.
It basicly comes down to this, torps do NOT get affected by guided missle skill which means torps can only do max damage to ships with 400 sig radius or higher. So what you say?
Well Tempest/Arma/Typhoon are all much smaller which means torps are doing very little damage to these ships when compared to others.
We all knew Torps were going to be nerfed and that is NOT my argument here, it is about fixing the part of the nerf which was never meant to be.
Fits griffin with 3x 7.5 scrams and cap injector
Seriously, do u think that geddon hits AF orbiting at 15km with AB? U know good enough that tackler killer ravens with jammers and 4-5 stabs were quite pathetic. They resulted in blobing.
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MARSHAL MAYHEM
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Posted - 2005.08.16 21:19:00 -
[54]
i totally agree torps are totally screwed i am caldari and got 2.5 million sp in missles skills i dont use rails so have been well and truly shafted. The devs told us learn these skills and youll be as good as you were well that sucks for starters as i am wasting more of my time to try and be as good as i was. then there is the fact i have all the new skills to level 4 now and missles still suck big time i have given up on torps totally, i was level 5 torps and level 1 specialism level 5 launchers etc i have topped all the required skills but torps are now unusable, i have found with the refire rates you get on heavies you can do as much damage as torps in that time aprox . WHY CANT CCP ADMIT THEY HAVE MADE A MASSIVE MISTAKE HERE. An already inferior in pvp ship is now even worse of, were talking missles here folks not guns missles are supposed top be better. Read the caldari bio for race it says were outnumbered by all our neibours but we make up for it with better technology we i dont see this. I cam into eve as caldari this is my first and only character i didnt choose missle i choose a race and now the only thing it is good at using is crap. Please ccp can i have all my skill points so i can start another character cause i dont want to be caldari anymore there the worst and most nerfed race. And so what if the could do mission lvl 4 etc its about all we could do now we just sit around getting very bored questioning why were even still playing this game. well ccp i would just like to say in the most affectioonate way screw you and thanks for ruining god knows how many months training.
Also well done on screwing up the servers again tonight, you incompetence never ceases to amaze me.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.21 05:36:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Shin Ra on 21/08/2005 05:37:13
Originally by: LUKEC Fits griffin with 3x 7.5 scrams and cap injector
Seriously, do u think that geddon hits AF orbiting at 15km with AB? U know good enough that tackler killer ravens with jammers and 4-5 stabs were quite pathetic. They resulted in blobing.
Nobody is talking about killing frigs in this thread. If you bothered to read the post, you would see this is about torp damage vs BATTLESHIPS.
So quit your whining and carry on getting ganked. See you soon.
To the devs: Ignore everyone complaining about missions, frigs etc. This thread is only about torp dmg vs battleships. ----------------------------------------- wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
Shadowraven213
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Posted - 2005.08.21 11:48:00 -
[56]
i have decent missile skills and i dont think this was ever intended to be a feature i like my new missiles they are faster and hit better than before even if they do less damage but i cant stand not being able to hit a tempest for full damage with a torp this is a definate mistake unless a dev can clarify tombs patchnotes to us all so i await someones response to let us all know once and for all if it will be fixed or not, then we can all get on with our lives
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2005.08.21 15:32:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Lady Vlad In my opinion, if CCP knew they were going to "nerf" all missiles so badly, they should have atleast made the skills available prior to patch deployment. People who previously ran missions and PvP with missile boats, could no longer do this upon patch release.
Yes, maybe once the skills are fully trained, you will be able to continue to play the game with your missile boats, but you should not have had to take a step back upon a patch release. Look at jump drives for instance. That skill was available long before jump drives were even introduced to the game.
Just my 2 cents. Let me know if ya want change.
Understand what you are saying but it would have made torps even more unfair and uber before the patch change came in..
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SpeedoMan
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Posted - 2005.08.26 14:38:00 -
[58]
Torps never were "uber" or "unfair", especially in PvP. Ravens were always the easiest mark in 0.0. Well... no let me take that back... Torps were "uber" slow. Torps were "uber" unfair to the user ;) unless shooting a dumb NPC target. You can warp away from them, you can outrun them in any frig or cruiser with MWD, you can defend against them 100% with smartbombs and defenders. "COULD" rather. Not now. The increased speed of all missiles now, plus server lag, makes smartbombs and defenders totally useless.
CCP's logic was flawed, their implementation of this patch was flawed, but they're too egotistical to ever admit it. They went on a vacation for cripes sake instead of sticking around to monitor all the bugs they had to have known would come about right after the CW patch.
Will CCP fix my gameplay, my ships, my race, my new missiles skills that I stupidly bought & trained up to L4 thinking it might make a difference before my next subscription renewal? No, I don't believe they well.
*cancelled* ;P
You fanbois out there just have all the fun you want flaming that. -------------------------------------------- Soban... red all the way through and through |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.26 15:06:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/08/2005 15:06:16
Originally by: SpeedoMan Torps never were "uber" or "unfair", especially in PvP. Ravens were always the easiest mark in 0.0. Well... no let me take that back... Torps were "uber" slow. Torps were "uber" unfair to the user ;) unless shooting a dumb NPC target. You can warp away from them, you can outrun them in any frig or cruiser with MWD, you can defend against them 100% with smartbombs and defenders. "COULD" rather. Not now. The increased speed of all missiles now, plus server lag, makes smartbombs and defenders totally useless.
CCP's logic was flawed, their implementation of this patch was flawed, but they're too egotistical to ever admit it. They went on a vacation for cripes sake instead of sticking around to monitor all the bugs they had to have known would come about right after the CW patch.
Will CCP fix my gameplay, my ships, my race, my new missiles skills that I stupidly bought & trained up to L4 thinking it might make a difference before my next subscription renewal? No, I don't believe they well.
*cancelled* ;P
You fanbois out there just have all the fun you want flaming that.
You realise that the Raven is still possibly the best PvP ship out there?
You realise its the only ship that can effectively tank and gank at the same time?
You realise that ALL MISSILES do more damage now than they did before?
We'll be happy to see you go. We don't need people who refuse to learn to use what they have. Cancelling is not a threat--its a gift. -- Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
Marr Hunter
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Posted - 2005.08.30 07:41:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Marr Hunter on 30/08/2005 07:44:04 Edited by: Marr Hunter on 30/08/2005 07:41:35 Edited by: Marr Hunter on 30/08/2005 07:41:22 What sort solution is actually being proposed here?
Increase the sig radius of all battleships?
Make the sig radius of all battleships identical?
Or adjust torps to reach their damage cap against targets of slightly smaller radius than battleships?
What radius does give full damage, anyway? If it's the average radius of all battleships, then mathematically speaking they've changed things as advertised..
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