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Aron Binchiette
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.02.12 06:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think that they need to chuck out the Armour repping bonus on it and give it a falloff bonus instead because the 5km range on it is frustrating as hell. |
Fireflyb1
Walden 2.0
26
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Posted - 2013.02.12 06:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Circular logic.. ENGAGE! |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2969
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Posted - 2013.02.12 07:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
I am a fan of keeping the rep bonus with boosted reps.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
1032
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Posted - 2013.02.12 07:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
It is not the Brutix that needs changing. On the test server it's brutally swift, spits out 800 DPS or more while it tanks over 600 DPS. Once you add implants, boosters, and links those numbers can become really scary.
A Brutix with two damage bonuses will be compared to the other BC with two hybrid bonuses- the Talos. They will probably both be shield tanked. Once we compare EHP, (similar) damage, (similar) damage projection, (?) and speed we will have one loser and one winner. My vote is on the Talos.
Lastly, the Myrm had more choices for variation. Drone tracking bonus? Extra armor per level? The three rep Myrm is stupidly niche and the prophecy does it better now anyway with its more generous fitting. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
711
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Posted - 2013.02.12 07:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Screw rep, it doesn't need and shouldn't have more tank, give it a 10% mwd speed bonus vaga style, and viola, blasterboat. Running glass ganker makes you more manly. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Savlena Torilles
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.12 07:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:It is not the Brutix that needs changing. On the test server it's brutally swift, spits out 800 DPS or more while it tanks over 600 DPS. Once you add implants, boosters, and links those numbers can become really scary.
A Brutix with two damage bonuses will be compared to the other BC with two hybrid bonuses- the Talos. They will probably both be shield tanked. Once we compare EHP, (similar) damage, (similar) damage projection, (?) and speed we will have one loser and one winner. My vote is on the Talos.
Lastly, the Myrm had more choices for variation. Drone tracking bonus? Extra armor per level? The three rep Myrm is stupidly niche and the prophecy does it better now anyway with its more generous fitting.
The talos can hit up to 40km away since it can fit battleship sized guns, the brutix cant. Talos is more or less a kiting ship, something im guessing the brutix will never be unless you fit rails.
They will hopefully never be comparable! |
Denuo Secus
142
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Posted - 2013.02.12 08:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
I also think it's not the Brutix which needs a different bonus. Brutix is a pure brawling BC. It needs a tanking bonus. How else should it do a lot of damage while maintaining some tank at the same time? It also fits well into the Gallente tanky blaster ship line: Incursus -> Brutix -> Hyperion. Yes, no cruiser. Because the Thorax follows the speed and tracking pattern of the Talos and the future Mega. So if you want a BC with two damage bonuses fly the Talos, not the Brutix.
The Myrm on the other hand is more flexible and would be nice with another bonus instead of tanking imho. All Gallente drone boats (Tristan, Algos, Vexor, Dominix) have a turret and a drone bonus. I for one like this because it makes Gallente drone boats flexible and offers huge damage - very Gallente I think. Only the Myrm doesn't follow this pattern. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
549
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Posted - 2013.02.12 08:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
**** falloff bonus and this constant need everyone has to try to kite with everything
AAR + Rep bonus = Relatively fast, rather tanky badassmobile!
Leave my theoretical brutix alone =< |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
127
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Posted - 2013.02.12 08:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Although my feeling was that the BCs should have been balanced down to the level of the tier 1s I think the Brutix is in a good place right now.
The tank is essential, both for its small gang and solo performance and, as has already been highlighted, to prevent it being eclipsed by the Talos... Those things should have been BS with a secondary control element (AC 'nado with web range, mini-vindi with web strength...) |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
35
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Posted - 2013.02.12 10:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
tanking bonus on brutix is quite nice. Finally with 6 low slots it can fit decent active tank while dishing out around 750dps. It even has utility high now for NOS. One badass ship. |
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
127
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Posted - 2013.02.12 11:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Four options, all of them replacing the useless armor bonus:
1) 5%/level shield resistance bonus to reflect the way it is actually tanked.
2) 5%/level ROF bonus to medium blasters to make it even better as a glass cannon.
3) 10% web effectiveness bonus to ensure that no class of ship is safe from it.
4) Speed or MWD boost bonus so it doesn't have to waste time getting into range to kill you.
Forget any nonsense about armor tanking. The Brutix has one and only one job: do 1000+ dps on a cheap T1 hull and, unlike the Talos, give 100% of it to any target. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
330
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Posted - 2013.02.12 11:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
2) 5%/level ROF bonus to medium blasters to make it even better as a glass cannon.
I don't think you realize how insanely OP this would be |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bora Alis
72
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Need 7.5% to armor or shield capacity bonus instead useless repair. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
1032
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vizvig wrote:Need 7.5% to armor or shield capacity bonus instead useless repair.
A Gallente ship is never going to get a shield bonus. As for an armor hp bonus? It would be better on the Myrm if you had to go that route. You would want a 1600 mm plate to take full advantage of such a bonus. A drone boat would not mind that at all. A blaster boat forced to use electrons due to fitting issues? That is ugly. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
555
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vizvig wrote:Need 7.5% to armor or shield capacity bonus instead useless repair.
Or trade one low for a med slot would give it a better shield tank, 5 low slots is enough for a DCU II and dmg mods
Gò¡Gê¬Gò«n+ên+¦n++n+¦n+ëGò¡Gê¬Gò«-á don't haten++ |
Hidden Snake
Hidden Squid Society
264
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Posted - 2013.02.12 13:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
another load of tearlogic ... blasters are too low because they have too low range ... wtf ... train ur skills ... train to fly and load null if the basterd is too far. this sort of stupid posts actually breaking the game.
and yeah keep the rep bonus ... brute now looks pretty badass.... have o try it again ;) |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
127
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Posted - 2013.02.12 13:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Four options, all of them replacing the useless armor bonus:
1) 5%/level shield resistance bonus to reflect the way it is actually tanked. Wierd... I'm pretty sure I have a stack of dual rep, Ion Brutix which wouldn't benefit in any significant way from a shield resist bonus...
Quote:2) 5%/level ROF bonus to medium blasters to make it even better as a glass cannon. A glass-cannon which does less damage and has less mobility than the Talos... What is the point? (I know that you don't like the Talos' tracking but you obsolete one or the other by this method so...)
Quote:3) 10% web effectiveness bonus to ensure that no class of ship is safe from it. I'd rather have the reps but this one isn't a terrible alternative.
Quote:4) Speed or MWD boost bonus so it doesn't have to waste time getting into range to kill you. If it has trouble getting into range then I'd rather CCP modified the base speed or mass than wasted a bonus. If it doesn't have trouble getting into range then I'd be even less happy with a wasted bonus. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1988
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
10% reduction in MWD sig bloom per level.
Repping the Brutix doesn't work. Dual rep does not rep enough and has horrible cap, triple rep means no web and Electrons. Brutix is a shield ship, or lightly buffered armor brawler.
Myrm is the tanker, it has the midslots to pull it through, can downgrade it's turrets to non-cap sucking ones and drones need no cap.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2971
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Four options, all of them replacing the useless armor bonus:
1) 5%/level shield resistance bonus to reflect the way it is actually tanked.
2) 5%/level ROF bonus to medium blasters to make it even better as a glass cannon.
3) 10% web effectiveness bonus to ensure that no class of ship is safe from it.
4) Speed or MWD boost bonus so it doesn't have to waste time getting into range to kill you.
Forget any nonsense about armor tanking. The Brutix has one and only one job: do 1000+ dps on a cheap T1 hull and, unlike the Talos, give 100% of it to any target.
The armor tank bonus is not useless.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
717
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Posted - 2013.02.12 19:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Merin Ryskin wrote:Four options, all of them replacing the useless armor bonus:
1) 5%/level shield resistance bonus to reflect the way it is actually tanked.
2) 5%/level ROF bonus to medium blasters to make it even better as a glass cannon.
3) 10% web effectiveness bonus to ensure that no class of ship is safe from it.
4) Speed or MWD boost bonus so it doesn't have to waste time getting into range to kill you.
Forget any nonsense about armor tanking. The Brutix has one and only one job: do 1000+ dps on a cheap T1 hull and, unlike the Talos, give 100% of it to any target. The armor tank bonus is not useless. -Liang
Had armor tank not been useless... Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2993
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Posted - 2013.02.12 19:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Had armor tank not been useless...
I'm sorry, I don't know what you're getting at here. Complete sentences might be useful in getting your point across.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Mire Stoude
Antelope with Night Vision Goggles
102
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
The brutix's armor rep bonus should be an agility bonus. Brutix needs to get onto it's target and start applying DPS asap. More agility/less mass would allow that. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2993
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mire Stoude wrote:The brutix's armor rep bonus should be an agility bonus. Brutix needs to get onto it's target and start applying DPS asap. More agility/less mass would allow that.
I hear the Brutix is pretty mobile on the test server. But don't mind me...
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
1032
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Posted - 2013.02.12 22:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
The Brutix is the fastest combat BC after the Cyclone. They both share the lightest mass of the BC crowd. These suggestions for dual hybrid bonuses or extra speed would pit the Brutix against the Talos.
Brutix: 40k EHP 1000-1200 DPS Projection out to point range 1250 m/s - 1650 m/s
Talos: 30k EHP 1200-1400 DPS Considerable damage projection >1650 m/s
The Brutix is fine as is. It brings variety. It's a logical progression. The Myrmidon in my eyes is the red headed step child. It has never fit in or made sense to me. I did not try out the Prophecy or Myrm on the test server as they are not my cup of tea. (Brutix and Harb are nice and fine. Cyclone is fast!) A corpmate did though and found it's easier to fit a triple rep setup on the prophecy now then the Myrm. Why aren't we changing the Myrm again? |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
125
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Posted - 2013.02.12 23:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Denuo Secus wrote:I also think it's not the Brutix which needs a different bonus. Brutix is a pure brawling BC. It needs a tanking bonus. How else should it do a lot of damage while maintaining some tank at the same time? It also fits well into the Gallente tanky blaster ship line: Incursus -> Brutix -> Hyperion. Yes, no cruiser. Because the Thorax follows the speed and tracking pattern of the Talos and the future Mega. So if you want a BC with two damage bonuses fly the Talos, not the Brutix.
The Myrm on the other hand is more flexible and would be nice with another bonus instead of tanking imho. All Gallente drone boats (Tristan, Algos, Vexor, Dominix) have a turret and a drone bonus. I for one like this because it makes Gallente drone boats flexible and offers huge damage - very Gallente I think. Only the Myrm doesn't follow this pattern.
eh ? nowai, terrible idea.
I can't see what is more flexible about that, when the current myrm is commonly seen with projectiles. |
Denuo Secus
142
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Posted - 2013.02.12 23:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Denuo Secus wrote:I also think it's not the Brutix which needs a different bonus. Brutix is a pure brawling BC. It needs a tanking bonus. How else should it do a lot of damage while maintaining some tank at the same time? It also fits well into the Gallente tanky blaster ship line: Incursus -> Brutix -> Hyperion. Yes, no cruiser. Because the Thorax follows the speed and tracking pattern of the Talos and the future Mega. So if you want a BC with two damage bonuses fly the Talos, not the Brutix.
The Myrm on the other hand is more flexible and would be nice with another bonus instead of tanking imho. All Gallente drone boats (Tristan, Algos, Vexor, Dominix) have a turret and a drone bonus. I for one like this because it makes Gallente drone boats flexible and offers huge damage - very Gallente I think. Only the Myrm doesn't follow this pattern. eh ? nowai, terrible idea. I can't see what is more flexible about that, when the current myrm is commonly seen with projectiles.
Projectiles on Gallente ships are a shame imho. With hybrid + drone bonus (like all other Gallente drone ships) the Myrm can do alot of different things - some even without refitting:
- full 5 slot armor tank without gimping the damage output too much, because it comes 50/50 from drones and turrets... - ...which is very helpful when drones are destroyed. - ...to support damage when blasters are not able to apply their damage (kited, TDed, ECM, neuted...) - max gank shield buffer with drone and hybrid damage mods - no other BC can do this kind of damage - full drone damage + moderate armor tank + drone utility in meds + ... - ... blaster as close range defence when using sentries - ... rails to augment sentry damage even more for nice damage projection - ... neuts instead of turrets for all that nice stuff which can be done with neuts ^^ - ...
I don't know..but this looks like flexibility to me. Without hybrid damage bonus the Myrm is more or less a copy of the new Prophecy. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1988
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Posted - 2013.02.13 03:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
But everything you list is already possible, you just want to remove the possibility of active armor tank. That's less flexibility.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Fireflyb1
Walden 2.0
27
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Posted - 2013.02.13 04:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Screw rep, it doesn't need and shouldn't have more tank, give it a 10% mwd speed bonus vaga style, and viola, blasterboat. Running glass ganker makes you more manly.
Psh, arguing on forums about manliness makes you more manly! |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
125
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Posted - 2013.02.13 06:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Denuo Secus wrote:
Projectiles on Gallente ships are a shame imho. With hybrid + drone bonus (like all other Gallente drone ships) the Myrm can do alot of different things - some even without refitting:
- full 5 slot armor tank without gimping the damage output too much, because it comes 50/50 from drones and turrets... - ...which is very helpful when drones are destroyed. - ...to support damage when blasters are not able to apply their damage (kited, TDed, ECM, neuted...) - max gank shield buffer with drone and hybrid damage mods - no other BC can do this kind of damage - full drone damage + moderate armor tank + drone utility in meds + ... - ... blaster as close range defence when using sentries - ... rails to augment sentry damage even more for nice damage projection - ... neuts instead of turrets for all that nice stuff which can be done with neuts ^^ - ...
I don't know..but this looks like flexibility to me. Without hybrid damage bonus the Myrm is more or less a copy of the new Prophecy.
You lost me with this post. Its a mix of things the myrm already does, or things that the bonus would not be helpful for (neuts), or just poorly thought out (blasters + sentries), or for which a BC was introduced with the specific task of being (talos is max gank bc for gallente).
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Denuo Secus
143
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Posted - 2013.02.13 08:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Roime wrote:But everything you list is already possible, you just want to remove the possibility of active armor tank. That's less flexibility.
Active armor tanking wouldn't be less possible as on a Tristan, Algos, Vexor or Dominix. Ofc one can argue about how viable such a tank would be. I for one fought against quite capable active Vexors for instance. But granted, the triple rep - dual cap injected Myrm wouldn't be possible that strong without active tank bonus.
Tauranon wrote:Denuo Secus wrote:
Projectiles on Gallente ships are a shame imho. With hybrid + drone bonus (like all other Gallente drone ships) the Myrm can do alot of different things - some even without refitting:
- full 5 slot armor tank without gimping the damage output too much, because it comes 50/50 from drones and turrets... - ...which is very helpful when drones are destroyed. - ...to support damage when blasters are not able to apply their damage (kited, TDed, ECM, neuted...) - max gank shield buffer with drone and hybrid damage mods - no other BC can do this kind of damage - full drone damage + moderate armor tank + drone utility in meds + ... - ... blaster as close range defence when using sentries - ... rails to augment sentry damage even more for nice damage projection - ... neuts instead of turrets for all that nice stuff which can be done with neuts ^^ - ...
I don't know..but this looks like flexibility to me. Without hybrid damage bonus the Myrm is more or less a copy of the new Prophecy.
You lost me with this post. Its a mix of things the myrm already does, or things that the bonus would not be helpful for (neuts), or just poorly thought out (blasters + sentries), or for which a BC was introduced with the specific task of being (talos is max gank bc for gallente).
The current Myrm can do all this already ofc. I just think it would benefit even more from a turret bonus. See the new Vexor for instance. It's a fantastic brawler with a lot of options.
After all it's a matter of taste. I always liked the damage potential and the flexibility made possible by two weapon systems with bonus each. It works very well on a Vexor or Dominix already. If one system does not work because of the current situation (blasters and drones are situational imo) - you still have another system. I think this is Gallente style. |
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