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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
iMelodie
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi guys,
I'm new to this whole mining thing and I'm not sure I'mdoing it right. I use a Covetor with 3 Modulated Strip Miner II and an Iteron V.
From what I've read, I'm supposed to mine, drop everything into a can and then come back once the can is full to haul it back using the Iteron.
1- If I do that in High Sec, what prevents some random guy to come in the belt and steal from my can ? I presume there is some kind of PvP flag that allows me to fight this guy but as I'm new I don't have any idea of how to retribute nor which ship I should or should not engage.
2- How do you select a system to mine in ? For most of the systems I've visited, belts were not exactly providing a lot of minerals and I was always seeing others players flying around, mostly in non miners ships and I didn't know how to react. Are they a threat to my ship or my ore ?
I'll be taking any good advice to secure my solo mining operations :D |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
144
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Get yourself a retriever or mackinaw, its designed for solo mining... Covetor is fleet mining ship and on solo mining yield difference is not that big...
Only way to prevent jetcan stealing is not to jetcan mine.. Thats where retriever and mackinaw comes to play, they have huge ore bay and skill dependand bonus for its size.. [Insert something funny or smart here]
Good lord has set me on path, sometimes im confused about what he wants from me. But path leads on, towards why he placed me on this wonderfull planet... |
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
159
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well you can always do what I like to do if I'm having issues with can theives (though it hasn't happened in a long time). I like to mine 1 pull on a roid and then leave a jet can in the belt, and fly away. Then fly a cloak tackler in the belt and group another toon in my fleet. I then wait for the theif to come make their move and blow them to pieces.
Seriously though, Ore is very heavy unless someone is running around in an industrial warping to random belts hoping to steel unattended cans of ore, it's not much of a concern. If it becomes a concern, see above. |
Augustus Octavian Caesar
Cold Lazarus Inc.. Black Thorne Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
In high sec, I was under the assumption that CONCORD would blow a jet can thief up? |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
178
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Augustus Octavian Caesar wrote:In high sec, I was under the assumption that CONCORD would blow a jet can thief up?
No. Concord doesn't care in the slightest about thieves. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
178
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
iMelodie wrote:I'm new to this whole mining thing and I'm not sure I'mdoing it right. I use a Covetor with 3 Modulated Strip Miner II and an Iteron V.
Get a Retriever. Covetor is designed for fleet mining, retriever for solo mining.
If you jet-can mine, nothing prevents someone from stealing from the can. You (and anyone else) can shoot them, but that's often what they want.
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iMelodie
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.14 17:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well thank you all for the answer, I'll have a look into the Retriever and Mackinaw once back home.
Fly safe ! |
Kate stark
122
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Posted - 2013.02.14 17:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
iMelodie wrote:Well thank you all for the answer, I'll have a look into the Retriever and Mackinaw once back home.
Fly safe !
ignore the mackinaw, it's not worth the price tag in comparison to the retriever. |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
88
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Posted - 2013.02.14 17:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Don't forget the Venture in the short term while you skill up to fly something better. Just note about mining:
- You'll make more isk doing missions. So unless you are planning on afk/semi-afk mining it's not a good way to make isk compared to missions and faction warfare. I have an alt which I mining while watching TV and surfing the net, but honestly I make more isk hauling ships and modules back to my .5 mining area than from the minerals I haul to the trade hub.*
- Mining to manufacture things will lose isk compared to just selling raw minerals. Also make sure you don't just sell to the highest bidder. At least put it on the market at the average price. Don't refine as you will make less isk.
- Don't jet can mine until you have read up on the current rules for crime watch.
- If you are in a .5 security system you'll find mo-better rocks, but it's more risky.
- If you 5-10 jumps away from a trade hub mining is better, and safer, but you have to sell yo
* Ironically gank destroyers are my top sellers with much better margins than Ventures, Hulks, and Macs. I'd be more worried about being ganked, but there are so many ice miners around no one targets someone semi actively mining mid end ore. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a bitter small portion of the community. |
Kimo Khan
60
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Posted - 2013.02.14 20:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
For cost and to avoid the ganks fly a procurer. Sure they can still gank you in a procurer, but watching what they lose to do so is well worth the low cost of the procurer. |
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Kate stark
128
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Posted - 2013.02.14 20:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kimo Khan wrote:For cost and to avoid the ganks fly a procurer. Sure they can still gank you in a procurer, but watching what they lose to do so is well worth the low cost of the procurer.
never fly a procurer. this is just terrible advice. there's a reason the retriever mines more high sec ores than any other ship, and the procurer mines less than 10% of pretty much every ore in the game. |
Kimo Khan
60
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Posted - 2013.02.14 21:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Kimo Khan wrote:For cost and to avoid the ganks fly a procurer. Sure they can still gank you in a procurer, but watching what they lose to do so is well worth the low cost of the procurer. never fly a procurer. this is just terrible advice. there's a reason the retriever mines more high sec ores than any other ship, and the procurer mines less than 10% of pretty much every ore in the game.
Yes it mines 10% less, but it does depend on your goal. If yield is my main priority then procurer is not the ship. If hold size is my priority then procurer is not my ship. If tank is my priority then procurer is my ship.
I've had someone try to gank me and I lived to go pick up their loot. |
Kate stark
132
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Posted - 2013.02.14 21:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kimo Khan wrote:Kate stark wrote:Kimo Khan wrote:For cost and to avoid the ganks fly a procurer. Sure they can still gank you in a procurer, but watching what they lose to do so is well worth the low cost of the procurer. never fly a procurer. this is just terrible advice. there's a reason the retriever mines more high sec ores than any other ship, and the procurer mines less than 10% of pretty much every ore in the game. Yes it mines 10% less, but it does depend on your goal. If yield is my main priority then procurer is not the ship. If hold size is my priority then procurer is not my ship. If tank is my priority then procurer is my ship. I've had someone try to gank me and I lived to go pick up their loot.
and if he'd have blown you up in a retriever you'd still have more isk now because you'd have mined more during the time you were mining than you lost being ganked.
awesome how that works isn't it? |
Kimo Khan
60
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Posted - 2013.02.14 22:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Kimo Khan wrote:Kate stark wrote:Kimo Khan wrote:For cost and to avoid the ganks fly a procurer. Sure they can still gank you in a procurer, but watching what they lose to do so is well worth the low cost of the procurer. never fly a procurer. this is just terrible advice. there's a reason the retriever mines more high sec ores than any other ship, and the procurer mines less than 10% of pretty much every ore in the game. Yes it mines 10% less, but it does depend on your goal. If yield is my main priority then procurer is not the ship. If hold size is my priority then procurer is not my ship. If tank is my priority then procurer is my ship. I've had someone try to gank me and I lived to go pick up their loot. and if he'd have blown you up in a retriever you'd still have more isk now because you'd have mined more during the time you were mining than you lost being ganked. awesome how that works isn't it?
We can each come up with scenarios which our reason is better.
It all comes down to priority.
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Kate stark
132
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Posted - 2013.02.14 22:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kimo Khan wrote:Kate stark wrote:Kimo Khan wrote:Kate stark wrote:Kimo Khan wrote:For cost and to avoid the ganks fly a procurer. Sure they can still gank you in a procurer, but watching what they lose to do so is well worth the low cost of the procurer. never fly a procurer. this is just terrible advice. there's a reason the retriever mines more high sec ores than any other ship, and the procurer mines less than 10% of pretty much every ore in the game. Yes it mines 10% less, but it does depend on your goal. If yield is my main priority then procurer is not the ship. If hold size is my priority then procurer is not my ship. If tank is my priority then procurer is my ship. I've had someone try to gank me and I lived to go pick up their loot. and if he'd have blown you up in a retriever you'd still have more isk now because you'd have mined more during the time you were mining than you lost being ganked. awesome how that works isn't it? We can each come up with scenarios which our reason is better. It all comes down to priority. except my scenario will be far more common, hence why, as i pointed out, barely any one is using a procurer. as such, using a procurer is simply bad advice.
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Kal Ashur
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.02.15 06:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you can multibox, then your Covetor and Itty 5 setup will do just fine. Drop a can off the Coveter and always leave 1 trit or 1 ammo in the can. then have the Itty pilot reach into the can and drag the mined ore into the Itty's cargo hold.
If you can't multibox then just do as Elena suggests |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
313
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Posted - 2013.02.15 11:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
iMelodie wrote:2- How do you select a system to mine in ? For most of the systems I've visited, belts were not exactly providing a lot of minerals and I was always seeing others players flying around, mostly in non miners ships and I didn't know how to react. Are they a threat to my ship or my ore ?
I'll be taking any good advice to secure my solo mining operations :D
Contact me ingame if you want advice on where to do solo mining. I know of several systems in connected high-sec whose belts don't see a lot of traffic.
|
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
466
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Augustus Octavian Caesar wrote:In high sec, I was under the assumption that CONCORD would blow a jet can thief up? No. Concord doesn't care in the slightest about thieves.
CONCORD will only show up and blast them if they attack you. If they do attack, it takes CONCORD several seconds to show up.
In a 0.5 system the delay before CONCORD shows up is more than enough for them to pop you. This is known as suicide ganking. They lose their ship to concord, but not until after they have killed you.
If they take from your can they will turn flashy red so you can legally attack them, but if they attack you concord WILL RESPOND. However if you fire the first shot they are then free to attack you without CONCORD coming to your aid. Do not be fooled by can flippers flying cheap ships. they often do this to trick you into attacking them, then they warp off and come back in a T3 cruiser or similar superior ship and destroy you. Even a well fit PVE battleship can be easily taken out by a T3 cruiser, so unless you are willing to risk a T3 cruiser of your own, do not attack can flippers, you will just die.
I assume you have read some mining guides online. However with recent changes to mining ships those guides are no longer accurate. The three basic mining barges have all had there base yield changed. While previously the procurer with its single strip miner was useless as the mining cruiser Osprey could out mine it. However it now has a 200% base bonus which makes that 1 strip miner equal to 3. The retriever likewise had a base bonus of 50% added making its 2 strip miners equal to 3. The covetor was pretty much left as it was.
So now the base yield of all three ships is equal, With the differences between them being more of a role specific bonus.
-The procurer and its T2 conter part the Skiff were made to be the tough heavy tanked mining ships. They have base yield with a huge tank bonus and a per level bonus to shields. These ships are good in an area were the chances of getting ganked are high. They are still useless against can flippers, as if you attack them they are free to kill you without fear of CONCORD.
- The retriever and its T2 counter part the Mackinaw were made to be the high capacity/ore hold mining ships. The retriever has the same yield as the procurer but a massive ore hold making it ideal for solo mining. The retriever also has an extra low slot so it can fit 3 mining laser upgrades rather than 2. If MLU II's are used that is an extra 9% yield over the procurer. You may need a processor over clocking rig to fit 3 MLU II's depending on your skills.
- The covetor and its T2 counter part the HULK are the max yield mining ships. They get a bonus per level to mining yield. The Covetor only gets a 4% per level mining yield bonus over the retriever. So if you have to jetcan mine, or make frequent trips back to station that extra yield can quickly be lost. If you only have mining barge skill trained to ;level 3-4 you are only getting 12-16% bonus yield, however considering the retrievers extra MLU II from the extra low slot giving it an extra 9% yield you are actually only gaining 3-7%. At mining barge 5 the covetor will have 11% better mining yield than the retriever. Not a big difference if you ask me.
The big yield advantage comes from the HULK, It gets yield bonus of 3% per level of mining barge plus 3% per level of exhumers. So with mining barge 5 and exhumers 5 plus 2 MLU II's it adds up to a 48% yield increase over base yield but still only a 16% gain over the Mackinaw with its 1% per level of exhumers plus 3 MLU II's giving it 32% yield gain. The base mining skill and astrogeology skills also give 5% yield per level but affect all ships equally. Yet training them both to 5 will give another 25% gain for each skill.
Another important note is how all these bonuses are calculated. They are compounded, which means they are added one at a time adding there bonus not to the base yield but to the total yield after all the previous bonuses. this drastically increases the end result.
As a new miner you may not understand why your yield is so ow compared to what these ships are supposed to be able to get. While each bonus is small, there are many, and they really add up. For example, with low skills you could be struggling to break 800m3 per minute, but a HULK with max skills can pull in over 1600m3 minute. Add a max boost ORCA, and 5% mining implant it can pull in over 2700m3 minute. and that does not include the extra 400m3 per minute you can get from max skilled mining drone II's.
Stick with it and find a mining corp that will supply you with ORCA boosts and you will not be long before you are making 20-25 million isk per hour.
Just keep in mind, without max skills or an ORCA boost the yield advantage of the covetor or HULK is small. You will make more and be safer with a retriever and later Mackinaw while you are solo. The Mackinaw has a 35,000m3 ore hold. much more than a jet can can hold. Even very close to what your itty 5 can hold. Unless you have max skills, you will make more isk with a MACK than with a HULK.
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stoicfaux
2364
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 15:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Retriever + Damage Control II
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Kate stark
143
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 18:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Retriever + 3x MLU IIs
FTFY |
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Nova Oden
InnerSphere Alliance The InnerSphere
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 05:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Toku Jiang wrote:Well you can always do what I like to do if I'm having issues with can theives (though it hasn't happened in a long time). I like to mine 1 pull on a roid and then leave a jet can in the belt, and fly away. Then fly a cloak tackler in the belt and group another toon in my fleet. I then wait for the theif to come make their move and blow them to pieces.
Seriously though, Ore is very heavy unless someone is running around in an industrial warping to random belts hoping to steel unattended cans of ore, it's not much of a concern. If it becomes a concern, see above.
thread winner!!! |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company High Rollers
123
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 06:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you have two accounts get a covetor and a retriever.
Mine with both to fill the retriever as the hauler. |
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
56
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 08:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
1 account - 1 Retriever 2 accounts - 2 Retrievers 3 accounts - 2 Covetors & Orca
Simple. Exhumers are not worth the price tag. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
399
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Use anchored secure cans in low high sec... or get a second account and fly a hauling orca.. or buy a retriever or mack and make trips to the station as the hold fills.. Jet Canning is the major reason can theft still happens. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
203
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 16:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Mayhem wrote:1 account - 1 Retriever 2 accounts - 2 Retrievers 3 accounts - 2 Covetors & Orca
Simple. Exhumers are not worth the price tag.
1 account - 1 Retriever 2 accounts - 2 Retrievers 3-4 accounts - 2-3 Hulks & Orca 5+ accounts - 3+ Hulks & Orca & Freighter. (You can now mine in no-station systems for a really long time)
The Orca should train for combat drone to take care of the small rats, so your Hulk Pilots can train for mining drone II
but you're a long way from that I presume :) |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
502
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 21:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Augustus Octavian Caesar wrote:In high sec, I was under the assumption that CONCORD would blow a jet can thief up? If they steal from your can they get GCC flagged.
If they are GCC flagged you, or I believe with the new crime watch anyone else, are free to attack them without concord defending them. However if you do attack first after they get the GCC flag, then they are free to attack you without concord stepping in at all.
If you just ignore them they will stay flashy to you for I think 15 minutes, but they can not attack you without concord blasting them, unless you attack first.
this used to be called can flipping. And the idea was to go out an flip cans in a T1 frig, then if you attack them think oh it is just a frig, I can take him. They then warp off and switch to a T3 cruiser or other high power PVP ship and return to blow you away. Once you attack them, even if they are GCC flagged, they are free to attack back.
If you happen to find a quite system where you can jetcan mine without getting disturbed, another option is to use the new freight cans instead of a jetcan. Drop it off with your itty 5 and you can mine away filling it. The advantage of a freight can is it will not despawn after 1-2 hours like a jetcan will. they stay until someone shoots them. Also they can hold up to 250,000m3 depending on which freight can you use.
The disadvantage is they can not be locked, so are no more secure than a jetcan. you can drop one in a belt and continue mining until you fill a 250,000m3 can, And return later with your itty 5 to make several trips emptying it, or a single trip with a freighter. However anyone can steal from it, and it can be destroyed very easily.
Either destroying the can, or stealing from it will result in a GCC flag, but unless you are an urber PVPer you would be stupid to attack as they most likely do not care about the ore, but are just looking for an easy kill. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
502
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 21:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Toku Jiang wrote:Well you can always do what I like to do if I'm having issues with can theives (though it hasn't happened in a long time). I like to mine 1 pull on a roid and then leave a jet can in the belt, and fly away. Then fly a cloak tackler in the belt and group another toon in my fleet. I then wait for the theif to come make their move and blow them to pieces.
Seriously though, Ore is very heavy unless someone is running around in an industrial warping to random belts hoping to steel unattended cans of ore, it's not much of a concern. If it becomes a concern, see above.
another option is to tank the crap out of your mining ship and put the tackle on the mining ship. then have a PVP alt cloaked near by. When they flip your can tackle them with your mining ship and kill them with your PVP alt.
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Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
292
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Posted - 2013.03.01 22:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
iMelodie wrote: I'm new to this whole mining thing and I'm not sure I'mdoing it right. I use a Covetor with 3 Modulated Strip Miner II and an Iteron V.
Use 2 retrievers. A covetor makes a little bit more yield/hour then a retriever but makes less isk/hour because of the retrivers large cargohold, and less time spent hauling. Your goal should be to have both characters setup in retrievers and just mine to station since they will have comparable cargo hold space to most industrials.
Also train one of your miners to miner foremen V, and set this character as your fleet booster, this will give you 10% more yield per hour.
iMelodie wrote: From what I've read, I'm supposed to mine, drop everything into a can and then come back once the can is full to haul it back using the Iteron.
This is old information from the days of Hulks having huge m3/hour yields over the other mining ships. These days the difference in yield/hour is minor, and covetors,hulks, procurer, skiffs are mainly only useful in mining ops. With solo mining (no Orca) mackinaws and retrivers will make you more isk/hour. So don't bother with jet canning, just use ships with the bigger cargo holds.
iMelodie wrote: 1- If I do that in High Sec, what prevents some random guy to come in the belt and steal from my can ? I presume there is some kind of PvP flag that allows me to fight this guy but as I'm new I don't have any idea of how to retribute nor which ship I should or should not engage.
As I said above, using the mining ships with bigger cargoholds and just mine to station. Unless you have an orca you will not see any gains jet canning and mining per hour over just mining to station.
iMelodie wrote: 2- How do you select a system to mine in ? For most of the systems I've visited, belts were not exactly providing a lot of minerals and I was always seeing others players flying around, mostly in non miners ships and I didn't know how to react. Are they a threat to my ship or my ore ?
Use the dotlan website. Look for low activity systems, away from trade hubs / trade lines. Dead end systems are best since you don't get any traffic and it is easier to watchout for gankers, other wise systems with low activty (systems that have 2 or more stargates, but are not heavily used because traffic passes though another near by system). On dotlan you can see the activity of the system, number of belts, ship losses, etc. I would suggest fly around (in a fast ship) and check out the belts before hand. Find a system that dosen't activly have miners in it (if you visit a belt and there are roids you might be in luck) , little to no ship losses, and low traffic passing though.
And yes to find really good systems takes time, effort and chances are you'll in a system far away from trade hubs, which is what you want. |
Dave Stark
1879
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Red Frog Rufen wrote:Jack Mayhem wrote:1 account - 1 Retriever 2 accounts - 2 Retrievers 3 accounts - 2 Covetors & Orca
Simple. Exhumers are not worth the price tag. 1 account - 1 Retriever 2 accounts - 2 Retrievers 3-4 accounts - 2-3 Hulks & Orca 5+ accounts - 3+ Hulks & Orca & Freighter. (You can now mine in no-station systems for a really long time) The Orca should train for combat drone to take care of the small rats, so your Hulk Pilots can train for mining drone II but you're a long way from that I presume :)
the only reason to ever have a freighter pilot is if it can't fly a mining ship, which only takes what, 7 days to train? honestly freighters are not an efficient use of a pilot unless they can't fly a mining ship. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 13:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jack Mayhem wrote:1 account - 1 Retriever 2 accounts - 2 Retrievers 3 accounts - 2 Covetors & Orca
Simple. Exhumers are not worth the price tag.
Kate stark wrote:iMelodie wrote:Well thank you all for the answer, I'll have a look into the Retriever and Mackinaw once back home.
Fly safe ! ignore the mackinaw, it's not worth the price tag in comparison to the retriever.
I always feel dumb, when I read those replies, because I could think I am doing it wrong ... If you can afford (!) Exhumers by money and good - very good skills, you should buy them! I've explained in another thread last week:
Only the 5 Mining Drones II in addition to the usual combat drones you can carry in a Mackinaw, pay for the Mackinaw within 48 hours of pure mining, just the drones! And if you mine solo without Orca or indy-support, than the extra cargohold of the Mackinaw increases your total yield in addition to the extra yield against a retriever. So if you count all the things together, the extra price of the Mackinaw is well payed in less then 48h!
Now please somebody show me only one eve-player, whose mackinaw got ganked over several months every 48h in average (wardec or very dumb / resistant to learning persons excluded)! If nobody can and I am sure about this, a Mackinaw and as well a Hulk is well worth to buy and use if you can do so!
Stop posting this bullshit about Mackinaws / Hulks are not worth their price tag and that only Retrievers are worth to use. This is nonsense! |
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