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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 04:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
top vp getters yesterday according to this website:
https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx
#1 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=1sa+Abdul4FINLAND
#2 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=BoevoY+XomiachoK
#3 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Id+Enur
#4
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Slappy+McSqueege+McGillicuddy
#5 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=stepa+luchicrii
Draw your own conclusions.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 14:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Takseen wrote:If stabbed plex farming is so safe, why are there all those lossmails on their boards?
Given the number of pods lost they were probably afk, or had so many alts running at once they died before they noticed.
Keep in mind these are all almost certainly alts so the players don't care about their killboards and the lp they gain will more than pay for their insured empty t1 rigate hulls. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 14:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Notification: X Gallentius is currently running a Medium Outpost in Aldranette.
Oh no, X Gallentius the Dominator! Everyone better avoid that system.
Taoist Dragon wrote:who cares?
Who cares about facts? Not too many people who are still involved with fw sov.
Who cares about fw sov? Very few. Sadly the facts I posted will not be a surprise to most people with a brain. There is a very vocal crew of cheerleaders though.
The question is, does ccp care. If they do then they should either recognize something is wrong, or give this high five a high five. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote: You call these guys farmers but they are winning the war.
The war is never fully won or lost. Farmers will always farm.
Nice defeatist attitude. Its the attitude that got us where we are now.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:It's funny to hear people who are losing making derogatory comments about how the people who are winning play the game. You are the only one complaining, most other people, mostly on the side that is currently losing are just happy with the higher levels of plex related pvp. I'm not complaining, I am posting facts about the current mechanics. I am actually fairly amused that the system is working just like I predicted.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 15:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote: Keep playing how you think it "should" be won, keep ignoring the actual game mechanics, and keep losing.
Someone has to lose. It would be nice to make fwsov a soley pvp activity. But even you as the loudest advocate of this have nothing more than an all seeing eye intel tool which would make no difference at all. .
Keep saying that letting players know where there plexes aren't being taken won't help them defend it. Even though its obviously wrong if you repeat it enough people might start believing it.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: Beyond that most other people have the humility to admit that farming will occur and suggest small tweaks to hinder farming while not destroying the current climate of more frequent plex pvp.
For example plex timers rolling back and perhaps slightly better tanks on rats to better reflect the size of the plex.
Yes instead of giving players tools so they can defend their space in pvp, lets increase the importance of npcs. That is a good idea - if you want to make faction war even more of a carebear race. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:I'm in a small stronghold in Oicx now.
Oh no, X Gallentius the Dominator is in Oicx! Avoid that system. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Will do; 1. FW is more fun then it's ever been 2. There is more PVP to be had in FW then ever.
As to whether this is true as compared to before the october 22nd changes I am not so sure. But in any event pvp has nothing to do with sovereignty. And to say it is more fun than when it was agreed by all to be completely broken is not saying much.
Princess Nexxala wrote: 3. Farmers gonna farm, if people really cared about them then they would counter them...its simple. However outside of your home system...who honestly gives a ****..
No one cares. We agree on that.
Princess Nexxala wrote: 4. You're batshit crazy
Another point we can agree on. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 16:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:OK, let's do this right. I have just created a mailing list:
IMINURPLEX
It is open to everybody. Please join and post when you enter a plex, or when you see somebody else entering a plex. Format:
EVETIME: NAME has entered a PLEX TYPE in SYSTEM.
o/
I am batshit crazy, but at least, I am not this brutally dumb.
And why would I post there with my stabbed alts? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 16:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote: I'm not complaining, I am posting facts about the current mechanics. I am actually fairly amused that the system is working just like I predicted.
I dont think predicting that people will farm a revenue stream was particularly prophetic. You are however utterly mad that mostly everyone on all sides sees the current state of FW as the best its ever been. While absolutely everyone rejects your 'solution' off hand as fixing a problem that doesnt exist.
1) Hide and seek plexing does not exist.
2) Letting players know where plexes are being taken will not help them defend them.
3) Letting people keep ships throughout the warzone to attack plexers will not help them defend plexes in pvp.
4) Putting more of the focus on the strength of npcs will not make fw more of a pve game.
You, and your little cheerleader brigade, should keep repeating these obvious falsehoods. People will start to believe them. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 16:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:OK, let's do this right. I have just created a mailing list: IMINURPLEX It is open to everybody. Please join and post when you enter a plex, or when you see somebody else entering a plex. Format: EVETIME: NAME has entered a PLEX TYPE in SYSTEM. o/
I am batshit crazy, but at least, I am not so brutally dumb. And why would I post there with my stabbed alts? That's the beauty of it. You won't have to filter through a bunch of stabbed alts (which you would do anyways after a week) to get to the real fights. Come on Cearain. Put up or shut up. Anyways, slight change of plan: IMINURPLEX is now an intel channel open to all. Please join.
You still don't get it, do you?
An intel system that wasn't optional, combined with a form of timer rollback, would end the rampant alt plexing. Your system does no such thing.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 17:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:You still don't get it, do you? An intel system that wasn't optional, combined with a form of timer rollback, would end the rampant alt plexing. Your system does no such thing. Chicken.
Of course. Who isn't afraid of X Gallentius the Dominator?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
833
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Posted - 2013.02.18 23:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cat Casidy wrote:FFS, rule 14
Posting facts is "trolling" in your book.
Why don't you address the facts posted? Working as intended? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.19 02:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Caerain,
Where are you on the list?
Can't seem to find you.
M.
My alts are top secret. I will never tell, never.
Sean Parisi wrote:Are you trying to tell me that my ship SHOULDN'T have a full rack of Warp Core Stabilizers?
Quite the opposite. Its the key to winning eve. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.19 06:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:The level of disconnect between OP's assessment of the warzone and the reality is painful. I would call it a troll, but seeing as DCM and X Gallentus posts generally tend to bring funny along with the bad and your post is just bad, leads me to believe you're serious.
The op contains data from a website. Is the website wrong? If not, then what do you conclude about the facts? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.19 11:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beatrice Ushiromiya wrote:Cearain wrote: what do you conclude about the facts? Carebears are bad in pvp. One hell of a breaking news.
The news is that the most effective plexers are all carebears.
Working as intended?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.19 12:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Veshta
Not even I am that doom and gloom. CCP will at least put a timer rollback in which should help and possibly fix this mess.
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Here is some DOOM for you all.
Digging up facts is a waste of time if the aim to point out that FW is (and has been since plexing-LP) a giant farmers market .. everyone knows, anyone can see it but no one cares.
.
That seems to be the case...... this week.
A week or 2 ago when I refered to the medal the gallente got as being awarded for winning a "carebear race" there was allot of anger directed my way. I was supposedly horribly ignorrant for thinking such a thing. My posting this data in their medal thread also seems to cause allot of anger.
But yes it seems now alllot of those same gallente are in this thread, saying how they know sov is for carebears and no one cares.
If everyone always knew its a carebear race then why was everyone so upset when I originally said that? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Posting in a bitter, content-free Cearain whine thread.
Cearain: posts nothing but the data showing the most effective plexers are all carebears.
Andreus Isiris: I don't see any content.
The only way that can happen is if you are so emotionally wrapped up in this that you are completely blind to facts and reason. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Beatrice Ushiromiya wrote:Takseen already pointed it out, but once again: capturing systems - the vital part of controlling the fw space - can't be done by a bunch of cloaky stabby alts. So it's not the mechanics that are broken.
I dont think this is really a big issue. Caldari already flipped over half the war zone.
I probably wouldn't fit stabs on a bunker buster but you could. I think I would definitely fit a cloak and an mwd on one so you can get by gate camps.
Here is a domi fit that can be used to bust bunkers and gets 1576 DPS and (1693 with heat and you can heat for about 2 minutes).
I left the mids open to taste if your risk advers you could use an ecm burst and use sentries so you can collect them right away when trouble comes. I suppose you could put some stabbs on it too. But a dozen of these would make fairly short work of the hubs.
[Dominix, bunker] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Improved Cloaking Device II Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Ogre II x5
Beatrice Ushiromiya wrote:Quote:FW and its plexes were meant to (and is still considered to) be a delivery system for PvP not wallet balance Seriously? Did CCP said that all that FW thing serves only to encourage pvp? Personally I've thought fw is just another kind of game activity.
Well I don't think they said fw missions were to encourage pvp but definitely the plexing and the sov war was to be pvp. Fanfest, several dev blogs, and our csm rep communicated that. He said ccp was on the same page as he was and he definitely wanted that.
Moreover several of the changes they made were specifically to promote more pvp in plexes. Making it so the rats did not force pilots to fit pve ships, and moving the button closer to warp in are a few examples.
It is interesting that someone coming in and not knowing the history doesn't even realize sov was supposed to be pvp centered. I don't fault you at all, I just find it interesting. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Beatrice Ushiromiya wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:System flipping should have been kept in the plexes
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Non-combatants should not be able to influence the war directly
Doesn't compute..
That is because plexing was not actually changed from a carebear race.
Beatrice Ushiromiya wrote: And should CCP change the system by some means so it's entirely based on combat, people will be whining about blobs. Blob warfare is worse than, eh, carebear warfare to my opinion.
Plexing mechanics are not blob friendly. So making them pvp does not necessarilly mean it will make them blob warfare. Bunker busting can be blob friendly- especially if there are timers. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 17:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Non-combatants should not be able to influence the war directly, full stop. Instead of the doom and gloom you and Cearain spout on the forums all the time, can't we all agree that a simple timer rollback would be enough to give the pvpers enough tools to grief the farmers? Otherwise, it's all good. FW is working great. Fights/Kills are up. Home systems are being defended. Players are making enough isk from running plexes to stay on-field and available for fights almost all of the time. The single (minor) issue in FW is that farmers are farming backwater systems that nobody cares about. Everybody knows this and it doesn't require some moron to pollute every single FW thread to point this out. Hopefully CCP implements timer rollback at some point, but if they don't then it's no big deal.
Look I think we all prefer 1) a meaningless system that no one cares about, but has more pvp;
than
2) a meaningless system that no one cares about, with less pvp.
So yes there was an improvement. CCP and Hans should get thanked for that.
That is not really where the debate is.
The debate is for people who don't recognize that this sov warfare system is indeed a just a silly carebear race. That is why I posted the data that shows the most effective plexers are carebears.
CCP can do better with it. I think they will do better, when they adjust the timers. Will that solve the problem? Maybe. But the system won't be as good as it could be for militia players.
The rollbacks will be especially good for neutral pvpers like myself. A notification system would actually benefit pvpers in the militias as opposed to neutrals. Even after a timer rollback system it would still make more sense for people intrested in frequent pvp to remain neutral.
A notification system would actually give players who want frequent pvp a reason to join fw.
But that is all I will say about notification systems for the next 30 seconds. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.19 18:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:The debate is for people who don't recognize that this sov warfare system is indeed a just a silly carebear race. That is why I posted the data that shows the most effective plexers are carebears.
The sov war is not a silly carebear race, as pointed out many times. Carebears cannot win the war, they can are only effective in areas where the pvp'ers don't care to constantly patrol.
90% of the systems.
X Gallentius wrote: If you had said, "Sov warfare in backwater systems nobody cares about is a silly carebear race", then you'd right. But you keep insisting that all FW sov warfare is a silly carebear race and that is completely false.
Over 90% of it is. Most of the systems that are in play are not the home systems. And the home systems are likely plexed most often by alts because the enemy can't dock there.
I never said there was not a pvp fight in a plex. Almost all my fights come from plexes. But the vast majority of the the sov war is indeed a silly carebear race.
Winning 90% of systems is winning imo. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.19 19:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Winning 90% of systems is winning imo. That's a "you" problem, not a FW problem.
So the minmatar were never winning fw?
Thats an interesting perspective. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 19:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
The rollbacks will be especially good for neutral pvpers like myself. A notification system would actually benefit pvpers in the militias as opposed to neutrals. Even after a timer rollback system it would still make more sense for people intrested in frequent pvp to remain neutral.
so what u mean is u want a notification so ur alt can see wenever a plex is being run so u can send ur out of militia toon in and kill whatevers running it, then probably send ur militia alt in (im guessing u have one in each side) so u can finish up the plex with it and collect the lp for less time.
Nope if fw had a notification system then I would definitely have my pvp characters in it. Otherwise I get mor frequent pvp by being neutral.
ALUCARD 1208 wrote: u also complain about stabbed farmers if ur not in fw why do u bother even chasing them or even care about them in the first place?
I think the fw sov game could be allot of fun, if they fixed it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 19:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Winning 90% of systems is winning imo. That's a "you" problem, not a FW problem. So the minmatar were never winning fw? They were winning. They didn't win.
Then why do you disagree, that winning 90% of systems is winning fw? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 20:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Then why do you disagree, that winning 90% of systems is winning fw? ""Winning 90% of systems is winning imo."" I read "is winning" as "they won the war", not "they are currently ahead"
The war has never been "won" in the past tense. One side has controlled all the systems but the war never ended. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.19 20:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Abannan wrote:Apart from yourself, do you know of anyone who actually thinks this is a good system, or do you just keep bleating about it for no apparent reason
Are you asking me this question?
XG is the one defending the system up and down. I am suggesting they change it.
But lots of people understand the potential the plexing system has, because they have had great fights through it.
Its really just post inferno, new guys, like you that view plexing as nothing more than a carebearing opportunity. Your view is becoming the norm, since most people who actually wanted a pvp sov system have given up. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.19 22:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:The war has never been "won" in the past tense. One side has controlled all the systems but the war never ended. OK, then we're back to "it's a you problem". You're the one who sets your goals in FW, not CCP. If your main goal in FW is to take all the backwater systems nobody else cares about, then I can understand why you have serious problems with this version of FW - issues that require you to blabber on and on in several threads. I don't think your main goal in FW is held by any player who participates in FW.
Its not a matter of whether its a back water system or a home system. Its a matter of how you take or hold the system.
Running alts in stabbed ships to dplex your home system after the enemy leaves, is not much different than if you run those alts in back water system with no wts.
Yes you have to do that so you can dock in the first case. But the actual gameplay of getting in your alt in a stabbed frigate and sitting in the plex is the same. Not fun.
And the reverse happens too. I have had allot of fun pvp in backwater systems. If you win backwater systems by doing allot of pvp then yes I would in fact love to fight for them.
How good a game is mainly depends on how fun it is to play. Not whether some spacenerd decides one system or another.
My goal is to encourage ccp to make the fw sov war fun to play. Perhaps I am the only one.
I look at the data on the op and see what the most effective sov warfare pilots are doing. It does not look fun to me.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.20 02:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
I think the fw sov game could be allot of fun, if they fixed it.
So u bleat on in every post for ccp to fix an aspect of the game just so you will play it, wen noone else in fw wants it?
Your bleating on the forums to have the game kept pve like you want it. So I bleat to have them make it a pvp game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 03:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: Its not a matter of whether its a back water system or a home system. Its a matter of how you take or hold the system. If you win backwater systems by doing allot of pvp then yes I would in fact love to fight for them.
So if nobody shows up to defend a system, then it doesn't really count if your side takes it? Don't give me that notification BS. Assume that notification is activated as you have proposed, but then nobody shows up to chase the alts out. Does capturing that system count?
Yeah it still counts in the mechanics. But it wouldn't be fun. If no one was showing up so often that people weren't even flying pvp ships (like they are now) the mechanics would be a failure should be changed.
You keep trying to blame the players, but the players are generally going to act rationally to achieve their purpose. That is exactly what the players in the first post of this thread are doing. They are having a bigger impact on the sov war than you, despite all your kills. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.20 14:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Your bleating on the forums to have the game kept pve like you want it. So I bleat to have them make it a pvp game. No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight.
Then why support timer rollbacks?
Then why credit the increase in pvp witht he changes that happened after inferno?
Did allot of people in eve decide that they all of a sudden wanted to fight, and this change of heart just happened to coincide with the change in mechanics?
Do you see why your objection to making the mechanics promote pvp is ********?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
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Posted - 2013.02.20 14:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: They are having a bigger impact on the sov war than you, despite all your kills. You believe this only because you give as much weight to some backwater system as you do for a system that is home to FW players. Most players understand the difference and are able to look past the scoreboard as defined by CCP. So whether or not a backwater system flips back and forth due to afk plexing alts really doesn't matter all that much to them. So, again, it's a "you" problem.
Home systems are d-plexed by alts just as much as any other system if not more.
If you weren't such a wimp you would base in a non fw system so the enemy could also have ships available to fight you.
But instead you choose to base in a system the enemy cant have ships. So you either blob them, or as soon as they leave you bring out your cowardly alts to deplex whatever damage they did.
Its definitely null sec lite. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 15:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:+1, this very vocal minority turn people off of FW when it's the best it's ever been. ******* irritating tbh. X Gallentius wrote: 1. You guys polluting every thread with "FW IS A BROKEN MESS!!!111"
I started this thread. The op contains data regarding the most effective plexers.
If you and the other gallente think this is working as intended, and not broken fine. To the extent they tried to make the sov war a pvp mechanic it is indeed a broken mess that no one even cares about.
X Gallentius wrote:
2. Your out of proportion whinage w.r.t. a notification system that you only want to implement because you are too lazy to scout your target systems. .
Its not a matter of lazyness its a matter of time. Its not really "hard work" to roam around for hours in order to get a few fights. If you think that is hard work then I think you are the lazy one. But it is time consuming.
But its not just to make the fighting more frequent. Its so that the sov war is not the joke that it is as proven by the first post of this thread.
X Gallentius wrote: but even if they aren't implemented FW is in a great state right now.
Ok if thats how you want fw sov then great. I think most people disagree and think fw sov is so broken they stopped caring about it altogether - unless they put an alt there to farm some isk or keep a home system. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 15:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:[quote=Cearain]Your bleating on the forums to have the game kept pve like you want it. So I bleat to have them make it a pvp game. No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight. Then why support timer rollbacks? Then why credit the increase in pvp witht he changes that happened after inferno? Did allot of people in eve decide that they all of a sudden wanted to fight, and this change of heart just happened to coincide with the change in mechanics? Do you see why your objection to making the mechanics promote pvp is ********? [quote=X Gallentius] Almost every FW player agrees that timer rollbacks are a great idea that should have been implemented 6 months ago,...
Why do you want to change the mechanics if you don't think they will change anything? Why do you object when I say I want mechanics that will sov war a pvp game? Or do you only chant the mantra "No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight" for mechanics changes that you personally disagree with? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 16:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:I started this thread. The op contains data regarding the most effective plexers. 1. Will you commit to not polluting other threads with your diatribe?.
I will answer your questions when you start answering mine.
X Gallentius wrote: 2. They are the most effective farmers. Occupancy warfare isn't all about racking up VP.
Actually it is. VP is a measure of how much you have pushed a system toward your sides occupancy.
You can drone on about how you "didn't want those systems anyway" but its still occupancy.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 16:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Why do you want to change the mechanics if you don't think they will change anything? Why do you object when I say I want mechanics that will sov war a pvp game? Or do you only chant the mantra "No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight" for mechanics changes that you personally disagree with? tl;dr 1. Timer rollbacks good. 2. Notification system is Cearain being lazy. 3. Notification system doesn't force farmers to fight. 4. Whining in every thread about how FW is broken is bad.
5) Gallente crying at people who post facts about how their precious "carebear race medal" was won is priceless. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 17:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:5) Gallente crying at people, who post facts about how their precious "carebear race medal" was won, is priceless. Again, you fail at being able to differentiate between backwater systems and populated systems.
Stop wimpering about backwater systems.
Here is a plexer from a system you said people care about:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18848781
Just admit what you and everyone else in faction war already knows. The medal was awarded for a mechanic that is so broken, only batshit crazy people care about it.
Your denial of this is constraining your mental capacity.
In other words loosen your grip on that medal, free your mind, and repeat after me. "The sov war is not working as intended." Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 18:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Actually it is. VP is a measure of how much you have pushed a system toward your sides occupancy. Actually, it's not the only measure. There may be some guys killing farmers entering their system. Because they are dead, the farmers can't rack up LP numbers. Your figure of merit doesn't measure how much those players do denying the other side VP.
Sure it does. Those who lose ships in pvp and are therefore denied vp for the time they go reship are not getting as much vp as those who avoid pvp.
That is why the people at the top of the list are all carebear alts. The system is set up so you are most efficient at plexing if you avoid combat. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 18:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Sure it does. Those who lose ships in pvp and are therefore denied vp for the time they go reship are not getting as much vp as those who avoid pvp. (try saying that 5 times fast)
That is why the people at the top of the list are all carebear alts. The system is set up so you are most efficient at plexing if you avoid combat. You were listing the most active LP whores, not necessarily the most effective participants in the occupancy war. And we've already established that yes they are the most effective occupancy "warriors" in the hinterlands. We've also established that they do nothing of consequence in the highly populated systems.
No not lp, whores vp gainers. VP is directly related to occupancy. Perhaps you don't know the mechanics and therefore miss the relevance.
Look at the links I provided to a system you called listed as one people cared about.
You know its not that easy to kill people who are in stabbed ships. So the fact that there are so many kills means there are quite a few. But again we just need to look at the top vp gainers to see all the stabbed ships.
Here is a batch from yesterday top vp:
#1 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Commander+Ametal#kills
actually not a bad killboard but not a single kill or death yesterday when he earned the top vp spot! Winning the war with pure pve.
#2 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Takashi+Kuritatomo
#3 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=SobKilla+II
#4 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Will+Dye#losses
at least this guy had no stabbs - completely pve fit but at least no stabs.
#5 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=gus+jittsu
If all the plexers had killboards like the last one I wouldn't have much of an issue. Maybe he is not the greatest pvper, but I'm sure was no better than him when I was starting out either. But then again I didn't expect that I would be one of the most valuable people in the war effort the very first day I made any mark on the killboards. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 19:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:That's not actually true, it is simple to kill stabbed or cloaky plex farmers. TBH it's actually easier to force them to fight then non stabbed, properly fit farmers. Through campaigning directly against them , not only do you get a metric shitload of kills, you can directly influence where they farm. There is a very good reason why farmers would rather defensive plex their own systems around Nisuwa then attempt to offensive plex Nisuwa or Notoras. DIAF 10 times a day doesn't pay the bills. Cearain wrote:
You know its not that easy to kill people who are in stabbed ships. So the fact that there are so many kills means there are quite a few. But again we just need to look at the top vp gainers to see all the stabbed ships.
I don't lose my stabbed alt farmers often at all, unless I am afk or get caught in a instalock gate/station camp. I pretty much only do offensive plexing so I fit them a bit better and don't usually go completely afk.
The alts were making very good isk for me if I run them all together. I don't do it much because i don't really need the isk and I hate the multiboxing. But they could definitely pay the bills. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 19:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:That's exactly what I expected to hear, try offensive plexing in my system Cearain wrote:
I don't lose my stabbed alt farmers often at all, unless I am afk or get caught in a instalock gate/station camp. I pretty much only do offensive plexing so I fit them a bit better and don't usually go completely afk.
The alts were making very good isk for me if I run them all together. I don't do it much because i don't really need the isk and I hate the multiboxing. But they could definitely pay the bills.
Will do. Heydielles right?
You won't be able to blap my ship with your arty thrasher unless I am afk. Better get the smart bomb bs.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 19:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Oh and XG you guys are slipping! We are almost 350 kills ahead of you this month. We started out so strong... *sigh* but we're still on pace to break our corp record (last month) on the 20th.
Drop from the militia and start blapping the gallente stabbed plexing alts too. Your kills will more than double. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 19:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:arty thrasher, smart bombing BS, dual scram comet, scram/web stealth bomber Whatever it takes, the farmers will be farmed. Cearain wrote:
You won't be able to blap my ship with your arty thrasher unless I am afk. Better get the smart bomb bs.
I might actually try to fight a stealth bomber hoping I could outlast his torps for the 12 seocnds or whatever it would take to lock him.
But then I would find out too late that it is rcoket fit and die losing MILLIONS of isk in the process. Well maybe not millions, but at least 500 thousand - before insurance. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 21:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Oh and XG you guys are slipping! We are almost 350 kills ahead of you this month. We started out so strong... *sigh* but we're still on pace to break our corp record (last month) on the 20th. Drop from the militia and start blapping the gallente stabbed plexing alts too. Your kills will more than double. Except we catch a large percentage (most?) of them on gates - and out of militia you take sentry guns, a serious issue for small ship pvp. It's very nice to have the war dec.
EEEeeewww. GateCamping. Well I suppose you must do that if you want to dock. Non fw participants don't need to worry about docking so we can spend our time finding real pvp.
Keep in mind gate camping keeps out pvpers as well as farmers. Thats one reason I prefer minmatar amarr space - less gate camping especially now that we have a sis-eszur gate. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
834
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 11:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
chatgris wrote: Even beyond gate camping - chasing out of plex and catching at a gate.
Caldari fleets that roll through often want us to jump into them on a gate, and we usually oblige.
I'd love NPC nullsec if it didn't have bubbles.
There's a lot of pvp opportunities that present themselves due to having a war dec on your opponent. Is it more or less than being able to shoot everyone? I don't know. But it's not insignificant.
I think the gate guns serve a purpose or else we would have sensor boosted thrashers at every gate. I like low sec mechanics now. But yes Bubbles are why I don't even bother with null sec.
As far as being in fw in low sec, I think it comes down to a comparison of fights at gates versus fights in plexes.
Yes there is high sec fighting too but that is specialized, I think I had about 3 or 4 high sec fights in my time in fw. Others like to camp the high sec trade hubs and definitely get tons of kills, but its pretty specialized.
You can fight at stations too but since we can't dock in the same stations that will be pretty rare other than high sec above.
So I am not sure what more there is than a comparision of gate fights to non-gate fights.
About 95% of my fights are at plexes. Plus I value those fights much more than the gate fights - because for me they are more fun. Since Plex fights are the overwhelming larger number of fights and the more fun fights it makes much more sense for me to be outside fw so I can almost double that number.
Gate fights will likely be more important for people who are in larger fleets. I don't do that allot but even there it used to be 90% were at gates. Now a much smaller percent are at gates and more frequently at other places without gate guns. It will vary from fc to fc too much to put a percentage on it.
For me the value and frequency of the plex versus station/gate fights made the decision easy. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 16:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
#1 Karr Janner doesn't even show up on eve kill or battleclinic killboard
#2 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Gorakhal+the+Relentless
#3 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Tristan+daCuhna Someone who actually pvps made it!
#4 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Gun+Oriki
#5 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Antoni+Cesaille#kills
Another pvper!
Again if you don't care about facts thats ok, you don't need to post about how facts are irrelevant. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:+1 for proving farmers do, in fact, farm.
Again these are not top lp gainers. These are the top vp gainers for the day.
We do not know that they made very much lp. But we do know they made the greatest strides toward winning the occupancy war of any other pilots that day.
IMO the defensive plexers who go out, after the pvpers leave, in order to defensive plex the system back are just as much of a problem even though they may not make much lp.
But whatever, these are the people who had the biggest impact on occupancy for the days indicated. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:So what type of ship should somebody be required to bring to a plex if nobody shows up to contest them?
I don't want to require any types of ships. Do you?
I am posting facts that the most effective occupancy plexers do not have to pvp. This may be good news for people who don't like pvp but for those few of us who wanted fw to be a pvp mechanic it may be disappointing.
X Gallentius wrote: And, once you answer that question, then you can tell us how to "enforce" that requirement?
What requirement?
X Gallentius wrote: KEY POINT - Nobody shows up to contest the plex. Again: KEY POINT - Nobody shows up to contest the plex.
Right, if no one knows you are there, of course, they won't show up to contest the plex, will they? Did you know where these guys were plexing yesterday? What about all the other top vp gainers I posted? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 18:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
RavenTesio wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:+1 for proving farmers do, in fact, farm. Again these are not top lp gainers. These are the top vp gainers for the day. We do not know that they made very much lp. But we do know they made the greatest strides toward winning the occupancy war of any other pilots that day. IMO the defensive plexers who go out, after the pvpers leave, in order to defensive plex the system back are just as much of a problem even though they may not make much lp. But whatever, these are the people who had the biggest impact on occupancy for the days indicated. You can't go by Victory Points, as frankly you get basically non for defending. Heck you barely get the same standings now as you do for offensive..
I am pretty sure you do get vp for defensive plexing. Are the standings different for defensive plexing and offensive plexing? I believe the standings are different depending on the size of the plex, but not if it is defensive or offensive.
RavenTesio wrote: Even still... people have become to get bored of it, especially with them having been like a swarm of locust that have effectively stripped away the market; destroyed Research Agents to the point where I honestly question why CCP still have them in the game, not to mention the ridiculous nature of making faction implants now as easily available as simple grinding.
Honestly the more time that goes on, sure EVE will get more popular; bringing more of the WoW crowd over; but if that is the direction the game is taking then might be time to gracefully bow out of it now so can still look at it in the eye without seeing just pure shame of whoring out to the masses and betraying what it was built upon.
CCP are slowly labotomising EVE ... sure initially the changes to FW were fun because we could overlook the cotton-candy instant gratification bullshit, as we were having alot of fun with the PvP. Still today, I don't know - the farmers are moving on, the warzone atleast on the Caldari-Gallente side is starting to look like a damn ghost town; we're back to square one with slightly different mechanics - which let's be honest, it's bloody hard to care about bonus' to LP gains for complexes or the most pathetic "industrial" bonus' to system that frankly are some inside joke at CCP that I just don't get.
I do agree that people are moving back to square 1 pre inferno about caring about occupancy outside of their base systems. I think the changes that occured on october 22nd is what made it this way. When we had the cashout style system most people cared about occupancy beyond the one or 2 systems they base out of. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 18:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: Right, if no one knows you are there, of course, they won't show up to contest the plex, will they? Did you know where these guys were plexing yesterday? What about all the other top vp gainers I posted?
Well, ok thanks for saying that guys in lightly fit frigs (think technicals in machine gun-fit light pickup trucks) can terrorize (plex) unpopulated systems nobody cares to patrol (like the Sahara desert). Later, man. Have fun. (We all know where these "auxiliary forces" are running plexes, even if you in particular don't)
So you knew where these guys were running plexes yesterday? Then tell me what system(s) they were running plexes in. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 18:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:so 2 weeks ago u was all for it when caldaris were making a push.... now gallentes are taking systems back its broke again am i right???????
Wrong again. I, like 99.9% of eve players, really couldn't care less who is winning the carebear race.
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote: When we had the cashout style system most people cared about occupancy beyond the one or 2 systems they base out of. ur having a laugh right??????????? people didnt care bout occupancy they cared about isk and the farmers had a bigger bearing on the warzone back then to now IDIOT OR TROLL? i just cant decide which you are
You had to gain occupancy to make isk in the cash out system.
And we have already gone through all the reasons that farming was bigger then including no requirement that rats be killed, and the much higher pay, all of which had nothing to do with the actual cash out model. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 19:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
And we have already gone through all the reasons that farming was bigger then including no requirement that rats be killed, and the much higher pay, all of which had nothing to do with the actual cash out model.
so farmers didnt flip flop from side to side to whichever had the most systems to farm????? what game have you been playing for the past year mate
And that was caused by the cashout system? So no one does that now right? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 19:08:00 -
[52] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:So you knew where these guys were running plexes yesterday? Then tell me what system(s) they were running plexes in. Actually, since the Caldari hit Tier 2 they've all disappeared. If I (or a group of us) were interested in those particular players (we're not), we'd use a locator agent. Then we'd roam out to where they are and start harassing them.
Your not interested in occupancy outside of the few systems you base out of. Thats why you don't care that the best occupancy pilots are carebears.
X Gallentius wrote: But, I, like the French (and therefore the Gallente militia), am not too concerned about these terrorists taking over empty space. Only when they start reaching populated centers do our guys feel like they need to muster up the energy needed to run them out.
Well you could or you could just wait until they leave and defensive plex when local is clear. Or yes you could have a null sec style test to see who can summon the largest blob in system.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 19:10:00 -
[53] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:i think you missed out the important bit about using alts to flip there own systems there mate
and ofc flip flopping was caused by the cash out system it wasnt happening before was it?
No I didn't. It rarely happened and when it did it proved to be foolish to do that. People do stupid things all the time in eve that doesn't mean we need to change the mechanics so they don't continue to do them. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 21:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:i think you missed out the important bit about using alts to flip there own systems there mate
and ofc flip flopping was caused by the cash out system it wasnt happening before was it? No I didn't. It rarely happened and when it did it proved to be foolish to do that. People do stupid things all the time in eve that doesn't mean we need to change the mechanics so they don't continue to do them. It rarely happenned because people were still training Dread alts - thankfully they fixed the system before we saw major dread alt usage.
Thats was not the issue from what I was hearing at all.
The one confirmed time that minmatar did this, that system simply contributed to the amarr's one and only tier 4 cashout. Thanks for the help minmatar. In otherwords it backfired.
Given how the lp market crashed its unlikely people would be putting dreads in the enemy militia to do this now. If you want to call the lp market crashing and nerfing the lp payouts a fix ok, but that has nothing to do with the "cash out" mechanic versus the current "forever grind" mechanic.
Fact is, the cash out system meant people paid attention to occupancy outside of 5 or 6 systems. Even your corp joined minmatar due to the occupancy mechanics. That is a far cry from the current system that no one cares about. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 21:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:trust me i think ull find it happened more than you think
Your posts are completely unreliable, from your ridiculous claims about veshta never being in faction war, to your complete botching of the history of changes that happened in faction war. Why should I trust you? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 21:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:chatgris wrote:I have a third account that just defensively spins button all night while I am playing eve and LoL. If someone shows up, my alt doesn't fight, but I respond rapidly.
So, pvp is required to allow my alt to defend the system. Yes, it means I have an alt to spin buttons once the people attacking give up so I don't have to sit there on my main. I'm not particularly fond of that, but until they remove the docking denial mechanic I'll keep doing it. So what you're saying is that the Caldari know exactly where your alt is, but they can't really do anything about it because they can't win at pvp?
Yeah right. I'm still waiting for you to tell me where the top five vp earners were plexing yesterday. I know you were online. But you just can't admit you in fact don't know where people are plexing. Knowing where people are plexing is the basic first step "showing up to contest the plex."
Like you say:
X Gallentius wrote: KEY POINT - Nobody shows up to contest the plex. Again: KEY POINT - Nobody shows up to contest the plex.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 21:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
chatgris wrote:RavenTesio wrote:the warzone atleast on the Caldari-Gallente side is starting to look like a damn ghost town; Last month QCATS got over 3000 kills, an all time record. This month QCATS is on track to blow through last month's record. Definitely doesn't seem like a ghost town to me - a ghost town was before all these changes when I would regularly roam 30 jumps in my drake to find a single fight.
I was surprised to see that. I went over to caldari gallente space the last two nights and they were pretty slow. I even checked your corps and XGs corps killboard to see if you guys were getting fewer kills XGs corp seemed to be getting fewer kills but your corp is getting a huge number of kills.
It may have just been a coincidental dry patch and I am not as familiar with that part of the zone as you. Also I haven't been using alts to help find fights. I have just been running pure solo so that might have something to do with it too.
But I will say I was using dotlan maps for kills and other than a 2 or 3 systems the caldari gallente map was looking pretty sad.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills
Vast majority are white systems showing zero or only 1 kill. Just a few systems that seem hot.
I was getting allot more action in the minmatar amarr front. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:i think you missed out the important bit about using alts to flip there own systems there mate
and ofc flip flopping was caused by the cash out system it wasnt happening before was it? No I didn't. It rarely happened and when it did it proved to be foolish to do that. People do stupid things all the time in eve that doesn't mean we need to change the mechanics so they don't continue to do them. At this moment i have more state pro LP than fedef LP from flipping gallente systems to caldari in a shell corp. Also, it worked out perfectly well, enabling us to start stacking up vuln caldari systems for a tier push well before they would otherwise have been available. Does it take effort to be wrong on nearly every topic or is it a talent?
You would know. We weren't even talking about plexing to bring a system vulnerable. We were talking about flipping systems that were already vulnerable. Doh!
BTW I like the way ALUCARD 1208 says flipping vulnerable systems only happened after cashouts. He appearantly doesn't realize that there was actually no financial or other reason to flip a system before inferno. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: Yeah right. I'm still waiting for you to tell me where the top five vp earners were plexing yesterday. I know you were online. But you just can't admit you in fact don't know where people are plexing. Knowing where people are plexing is the basic first step "showing up to contest the plex."
Yeah right. chatgris' alt goes from Nisuwa to Notoras. Every single Caldari FW player knows this. You know it now too. Join Caldari FW and go stop his alt from plexing those two systems. Put up or shut up. The fact is that you want other people to do things that you aren't willing to do yourself.
You claim you know where everyone is plexing but you still haven't told me where the top five have plexed. I think we know why.
edit: Or are you saying that one of the top five is Chatgris's alt? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Fact is, the cash out system meant people paid attention to occupancy outside of 5 or 6 systems. Even your corp joined minmatar due to the occupancy mechanics. That is a far cry from the current system that no one cares about. It meant people cared about occupancy 1-4 days a month or whatever it took to flip all the systems en-mass. Otherwise, people still didn't care what happened in far off non-home systems.
They had to care unless they wanted their cashout to be half value.
X Gallentius wrote: You liked the old system, not because it was based on any sort of rational game play that resulted in people fighting for occupancy all over the map (which I guess is what you prefer since you've whined about us not doing so for about 3 months now), but because you thought it favored your side. It was a way for your side to be able to cash out at Tier 5 while giving a big F.U. to the Minmatar at the same time.
Huh? amarr never cashed out at tier 5. In fact I think the cashout system was superior, despite the fact that my faction was the only one that did not get a tier 5 cashout.
I gave several reasons why the cashout system was superior to the forever grind system we have now. You may want to read them if you are going to talk about why I liked it.
X Gallentius wrote: Plans were made by the Gallente militia (before the "October surprise") to move all of our capital pilot alts into the Caldari militia to force them into Tier 5 early enough for our side to flip it back before Retribution was released. Even planning on doing things like this shows everybody what lousy mechanic the Inferno version was compared to the current version.
I bolded the important part. It was the upcoming change that was the issue. It would not be smart to do this otherwise.
And no just because people have bad strategies to deal with a mechanic does not mean the mechanic is broken. If I want to fly my rifter directly at a tornado so there is no transversal and get blapped that is not proof the mechanics are bad.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:You claim you know where everyone is plexing but you still haven't told me where the top five have plexed. I think we know why.
edit: Or are you saying that one of the top five is Chatgris's alt? At some point you'll understand the difference between knowing where a group of players are and where specific players are. But in any case I was saying chatgris' alt is in Nisuwa and Notoras. You should rejoin FW and go hunt it down. Practice what you preach and all that.
I don't need to join to chase alts.
Tell me, what plexes are being taken within 5 jumps of your character right now? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 22:12:00 -
[62] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:You claim you know where everyone is plexing but you still haven't told me where the top five have plexed. I think we know why.
edit: Or are you saying that one of the top five is Chatgris's alt? At some point you'll understand the difference between knowing where a group of players are and where specific players are. But in any case I was saying chatgris' alt is in Nisuwa and Notoras. You should rejoin FW and go hunt it down. Practice what you preach and all that. I don't need to join to chase alts. Tell me, what plexes are being taken within 5 jumps of your character right now? what? and save you the 5 minutes required to answer that yourself?
Yeah right. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 22:16:00 -
[63] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:FW low sec is the most active pvp region in all of Eve right now.
Perhaps that is true. Eve is a notoriously slow game to find pvp. Where did you get that data anyway?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 22:26:00 -
[64] - Quote
I already know how to use dscan.
I don't recall for sure but I thought I might have seen you in nisuwa. Just using that as an example, there are about 25 systems within 5 jumps of that system. You cant identify who is running plexes in all those systems, in 5 minutes.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 22:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:i think you missed out the important bit about using alts to flip there own systems there mate
and ofc flip flopping was caused by the cash out system it wasnt happening before was it? No I didn't. It rarely happened and when it did it proved to be foolish to do that. People do stupid things all the time in eve that doesn't mean we need to change the mechanics so they don't continue to do them. At this moment i have more state pro LP than fedef LP from flipping gallente systems to caldari in a shell corp. Also, it worked out perfectly well, enabling us to start stacking up vuln caldari systems for a tier push well before they would otherwise have been available. Does it take effort to be wrong on nearly every topic or is it a talent? You would know. We weren't even talking about plexing to bring a system vulnerable. We were talking about flipping systems that were already vulnerable. Doh! What? The state LP i have IS from bunker busting hubs in a small cap fleet. Perhaps if you slowed down you posting the quality would improve? It worked out well. Things were set to do this on a much larger scale to get a good start moving forwards but the ninja patch removed any need for this. Also, one look at both of your toons killboard shows that you have always been terrible at finding pvp. One look at your forum posts show you probably always will be.
You are right I misread your post. How many bunkers did you bust and who did you bust them with?
And really there is no point in bringing up killboards again. Yes I can ***** killmails by gate camping in sensor boosted ships like you do, but that is not my bag. You don't think my killboard is impressive either - I agree. So what? No one really cares. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 22:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Cearain wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills
Vast majority are white systems showing zero or only 1 kill. Just a few systems that seem hot. Well, I don't really have any experience outside of the US TZ except for a few weekend all nighters - though the 24 hr kills show quite a bit of activity. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills24
Yes I agree with you and xg that is a fair amount of kills even outside the systems with a high sec gate. Gate camping a high sec gate is not really fw related.
I would put the average at about 1 kill per hour per system. Thats not really what I consider good but it definitely seems a large improvement from the pre-inferno days. Preinferno I would occassionally roam for 2 hours and not get a fight.
Perhaps I just had some bad luck and I admit I am not as familiar with the caldari gallente front, as I am with the amarr minmatar front. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.14 01:39:00 -
[67] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote: You are right I misread your post. How many bunkers did you bust and who did you bust them with?
And really there is no point in bringing up killboards again. Yes I can ***** killmails by gate camping in sensor boosted ships like you do, but that is not my bag. You don't think my killboard is impressive either - I agree. So what? No one really cares.
We busted 6- 8 hubs. These systems were near our home system and were never busted by caldari as part of any of their tier 5 pushes as they had enough systems to hit tier 5 without them. We just denied their farmers the land to farm in these perma-vuln systems while stacking the systems ready for our push and denying them the option to just ninja flip them if needed - since the caldari were very active in trying to deny gallente cashouts. As for remosebo camping, sure ive been lazy. But im not the one complaining now am i? Aside from the last month and a half you will find little or no gate camping on my killboard. On the other hand, i have killed many dozens of farmers while on the gate so you should really be appreciating the work done :) On the topic of killboards, the quality/efficiency of your board is not what im talking about. Just the fact that if you spend as much time looking for kills as you did trolling these threads with your ill informed drivel then the quantity of kills and losses should be a great deal higher. It just smacks to me you would rather just moan on forums than play the game. As usual, this is an issue with the player, not the game.
Thats a very small number of systems flipped by alts. Given that no one seems to care about occupancy now under the current forever grind system its hard to say its preferable. No real goals other than getting a large enough blob to take over a base system.
I'm actually not happy that the pvp is switching to gate camping for farmers.
As far as my playing time - well the game is ok and I like playing it. But spending hours for a few good fights isn't something I want to spend allot more time at. But that is really none of your business, and beside the point that the best occupancy plexers don't pvp at all. If your happy that the system is such that the best occupancy warriors are carebears, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am just pointing out that under the current mechanics the best occupancy plexers are in fact carebears.. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 02:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Cearain wrote: I would put the average at about 1 kill per hour per system.
This is an issue with your analysis - right now, there's not enough people in FW to really populate all the systems. So activity is centered around a few systems, and no-one but farmers really care about the other systems. The people who want pvp hang around one of the hot spots and they get a lot of it. They don't go to the unpopulated areas. Since you said you didn't know the gal/cal zone much, off the top of my head some hotspots are: Tama Nisuwa + 1 jump Nenna + 1 jump except for Immuri Vlillier + 1 jump Eha Okagaiken in the German TZ, dead otherwise Heyd
Thanks for the info.
I guess no one wants to leave their booster alts. I think what you say is true. We see allot more pvp in the hot systems and not so much of an increase in the back waters.(although even in the back water systems its better than pre-inferno) That the war would become more about who can outblob the other in a few systems was accurately predicted with the station lockout changes.
One of the great things about the faction war plex system is that it could force both sides to leave the blob and spread out The current system is not really doing that. Would you agree?
I go into the systems you mention and can expect to wait around for a fight and then when it finally comes I can expect 5xs my number (probably all boosted since its their home system) to jump in after me. Its better than nothing, and I realize allot of the players may be new so they have to all stick together. (I did too when I was new) But its not really all that great either. Its certainly not the vision of small gang fights happening constantly throughout the warzone.
Even before inferno I knew where to go if I wanted to get blobbed e.g., Hang out on the kourm huola gate.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 02:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: Given that no one seems to care about occupancy now under the current forever grind system its hard to say its preferable. No real goals other than getting a large enough blob to take over a base system.
Says you. Others in our militia that have flipped about 10 systems over the past week disagree with you. The Caldari who have flipped about 60+ systems since being run out of the warzone would probably disagree as well.
Well this thread is full of people saying they don't care about anything but a handfull of systems - this includes you. Only cynthia nezmor cares and she is running multiple alts. Her and about 3 others the only ones who care about occupancy in the other 90% of systems.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 16:15:00 -
[70] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote: Thats a very small number of systems flipped by alts. Given that no one seems to care about occupancy now under the current forever grind system its hard to say its preferable. No real goals other than getting a large enough blob to take over a base system.
I'm actually not happy that the pvp is switching to gate camping for farmers.
It was exactly the number we needed to flip. It was one of the actions that assured gallentes single tier 5 cashout..
Are you assuming that caldari would not have flipped these systems when they did their own cashout? You just flipped them early. The hord of farmers making 700million isk an hour in gunless frigates would have come to flip them back regardless.
How this strategy would work now when you can't make a system 500% contested and you don't get lp after a system is contested is very questionable.
Moreover all the other changes including the fact that we used to get about 5-8xs as much isk per hour farming plexes was a big issue. The change requiring rats to be killed also had some effect although I think not nearly as much as the isk. Bottom line is that if we were making 7xs as much isk per hour people would have alts flipping the systems now to farm them.
TLDR: you and several others blaming the cashout structure for problems that the actual structure did not cause.
The real issue was and still remains what can we do to make plexing an actual pvp mechanic. That way by the time people made a sytem vulnerable they actually had enough ships explode to justify the pay. In other words the lp should be more of a reimbursement plan rather than a new way to carebear. And no I don't want the pay to be cut. I want the explosions to increase.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: You dont think we could have swung the whole war zone? Im sceptical too. But there is no denying that as a militia we could probably get half a dozen squads of 4/6 dreadnought alts / people willing to drop their mains into cal mil, each squad capable of swinging a system in one siege cycle.
Its no different to what we did anyway. Its not hard to change into a shell corp thats already in cal mil..
You would swing the whole warzone for caldari? I am not sure why you would do that in the cashout system. But really that is sort of the point. The cashout system had some strategy. We may disagree on whether its a good idea to flip the other sides systems early. (there are other reasons why this may hurt your militia in the long run as well) But at least there is some room for reasonable people to discuss strategy. And there was allot of discussion of strategy! Now? Well no. The forever grind system we now have is pretty dumbed down.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: Finally, no one cares if you are happy with gatecamping or anything else. Just that your reasons for being unhappy are that people are gaming the system. Most people are happy with the current status quo and accept it as a happy medium since the pvp in the game has never been so abundant and paying for it is viable without going out of your way too much. No one has suggested anything close to a fix that removes the negatives while maintaining the positives of the current system. Your solution is pathetic and would not fix the real reason you are unhappy with your eve experience - the obvious fact that you are pretty lazy.
I think there are other people who wish the pvp was more abundant and wish the pvp had more of a context. The people in faction war might be mostly content with it. Just like most catholic priests don't think the celebacy requirement is too stringent.
You and XG have stated your objections to what I propose and have been shot down repeatedly. You then drop the topic and just start repeating that my solution is "bad" or "pathetic". This is your and XG's MO. You just keep repeating the conclusory statement that letting people know where plexes are being captured won't help people contest them in pvp. Your view is completely irrational, but whatever.
Oh and I love the fact that you say I am lazy because I am not willing to spend even more time playing a computer game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.14 16:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Cearain wrote:One of the great things about the faction war plex system is that it could force both sides to leave the blob and spread out The current system is not really doing that. Would you agree?
I don't agree, but close. The previous system didn't force both sides to leave the blob, just like the current system doesn't. However, the current system punishes those that branch out on their own because they can't maintain around the clock control of their system so they can dock.
I am not really comparing faction war with what it was. I am comparing it to what it could be.
Right now due to station lockouts and the lp structure we have a system where no one really cares about occupancy in the other 90% of the systems. The only thing that matters is whether you have a blob big enough to hold your base system. This might be fine for allot of people. There is no arguing for taste, but I would say that eve already offers mechanics, in null, sec for those who like that type of thing.
I would prefer that they create an occupancy war where people do care about the other 90% of the systems so they spread out and fight for them. That is why I would prefer an end to the station lockouts and a return of a cashout system.
Obviously, ccp also needs to do some things to make plexing a pvp activity as well. Well I think its obvious others may be fine with it.
But whatever. Thanks for the info on the systems. I did have more good fights last night. I had three unexpected losses. But I had lots of action, which is what matters. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.14 16:40:00 -
[72] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Oh and I love the fact that you say I am lazy because I am not willing to spend even more time playing a computer game. I agree you're not lazy. You spend a significant amount of time posting on forums about a game you rarely play.
Could you please tell my wife I rarely play eve? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.14 16:55:00 -
[73] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Caldari were going to flip the vulnerable gallente systems in the last week leading up to the scheduled expansion. We were just going to swing them a week or so earlier so we could get the now caldari system back to vulnerable and swing them back to gallente just before the expansion.
The systems we actually did flip much earlier were swing because they were just sat there counting towards our system total. As we make a push to tier 5 the caldari could have just come and bashed the bunker. So before out tier 5 push, we simply swung them to caldari, farmed them back to vuln and swung them along with all the other systems as part of out push. This took the uncertainty out of our hands, and the ability for caldari to swing these now newly gallente systems to counter our cashout.
It is really clear that you are acutely ignorant of the meta game in fw. Explaining these things to you is pretty much like talking to a high sec carebear.
I know you are going to igore everything ive said here and just keep saying the same things over and over. Oh well.
What you tell me is nothing new it was discussed on the forums and blogs adnauseum.
The main problem was the ability to bring a system from uncontested to vulnerable fast with pve. If you had to actually pvp in order to get those systems vulnerable this issue would go away. You would be much more hesitant to flip the system if you didn't know you could farm it back so fast. Plus you are only talking about very few flips given the huge number of systems flipping at the time.
And you dropped all the points I made in my earlier post. The game has changed in so many ways your discussion of the meta game back then is hardly even relevant. But yes now with the forever grind, fw players don't even care enough about occupancy to even want to flip 90% of the systems one way or another.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.14 16:58:00 -
[74] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Oh and I love the fact that you say I am lazy because I am not willing to spend even more time playing a computer game. I agree you're not lazy. You spend a significant amount of time posting on forums about a game you rarely play. Could you please tell my wife I rarely play eve? I think I know your issue. You want Eve Online and FW to be a solo game where you never need to interact with anybody. Log in. Look at Nofication. Find targets. Kill them. What your "notification system" would achieve is the same thing that intel channels achieve for the rest of us. What we know, from being in intel channels for years, is that people aren't all that interested in chasing rabbits in far off systems even if they know the rabbits are there. (I've done it, I do it, it's not a thing anybody can do for any length of time.) People don't even like chasing rabbits in systems 1-2 jumps away unless there is a real threat to their docking rights. So that's where we're coming from on the Notification System issue. Edit: And yes I was thinking about your statement w.r.t plexes within 5 jumps. With the current intel channels we have, I can know where WTs are within 2-3 jumps of our home system, and even more systems further away where our guys live. Same deal though. People will travel for pvp, they won't travel for pushing out rabbits. Also, the targets that are more interested in pvp tend to arrive at our doorstep in systems we deem worthy to pvp in (the ones we need to defend). Only the rabbits plex in unpopulated systems away from the front lines.
No wrong again. I was in militia with the intel channels - no one does that.
When you proposed that people do that the response from people even in your militia - Princess Nexxala - was along the lines of "too much work for a game" not "we already do that."
Nice try to misrepresent this though. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:11:00 -
[75] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:No wrong again. I was in militia with the intel channels - no one does that.
When you proposed that people do that the response from people even in your militia - Princess Nexxala - was along the lines of "too much work for a game" not "we already do that."
Nice try to misrepresent this though. I report wt intel in the channels all the time - probably to the annoyance of everybody since nobody wants to bother chasing the rabbits around. And all you have to do is ask and people will tell you where the rabbits are. For your intel channels - don't you think more people would report rabbits if asked, or if other people actually wanted to chase them?
There would be no more chasing if we knew where the complexes were being captured. If they run then you can stay and cap the plex. If they go several jumps you don't need to care because someone close by can fight for that plex.
You seem to think your haphazard statements in an intel channel are the same as a comprehensive notification system. It's not. People can and do capture plexes when 99% of the opposing militia doesn't even know they are capturing it. Of course it will be a pve system. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:43:00 -
[76] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Caldari were going to flip the vulnerable gallente systems in the last week leading up to the scheduled expansion. We were just going to swing them a week or so earlier so we could get the now caldari system back to vulnerable and swing them back to gallente just before the expansion.
The systems we actually did flip much earlier were swing because they were just sat there counting towards our system total. As we make a push to tier 5 the caldari could have just come and bashed the bunker. So before out tier 5 push, we simply swung them to caldari, farmed them back to vuln and swung them along with all the other systems as part of out push. This took the uncertainty out of our hands, and the ability for caldari to swing these now newly gallente systems to counter our cashout.
It is really clear that you are acutely ignorant of the meta game in fw. Explaining these things to you is pretty much like talking to a high sec carebear.
I know you are going to igore everything ive said here and just keep saying the same things over and over. Oh well. What you tell me is nothing new it was discussed on the forums and blogs adnauseum. The main problem was the ability to bring a system from uncontested to vulnerable fast with pve. If you had to actually pvp in order to get those systems vulnerable this issue would go away. You would be much more hesitant to flip the system if you didn't know you could farm it back so fast. Plus you are only talking about very few flips given the huge number of systems flipping at the time. And you dropped all the points I made in my earlier post. The game has changed in so many ways your discussion of the meta game back then is hardly even relevant. But yes now with the forever grind, fw players don't even care enough about occupancy to even want to flip 90% of the systems one way or another. Again, please answer the question of how you make this PVP based? Right now,it is PVP based but the problem is nobody is showing up to fight from the other side. How do you fix this? Notifications? Notifications won't change anything, as the stabbed-"PVPer" will still run away, so people will just ignore the notifications. Therefore the stabbed-"PVPer" still wins at PVP because nobody showed up to fight him.
The answer again - just as it was before inferno - is to have notifications and some form of timer rollback.
I disagreewith you on your assessment of notifications. The stabbed pilot will generally be 2 or less jumps from somebody roaming so he will constantly get chased out. Since he will constantly get chased out he will no longer make any lp. Since he will no longer make lp he will no longer stay in farm plexes. With a notification system and some form of timer rollback fw would just need about 4 -7 active pilots who want to pvp and all plex farming would end. Then the pvpers will start to join fw and we will see massive plex fighting throughout the warzone, not just a blob in 2 or 3 systems.
Andre Vauban wrote: What you need is timer rollback or something to make the stabbed-"PVPer" lose something when he runs away to farm another plex until you get bored of chasing him and he can return to take the original plex with no time lost.
I agree with this. Whether this alone will be enough, I doubt it, but I admit I don't know.
It seems ccp has dropped this idea as I haven't heard about it since it noted it didn't make it in retribution. Hence I am continuing to post facts about the occupancy war so that ccp and players will not just drop the idea.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 22:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:I seems a lot of people are not around pew pewing atm because they are too busy dplexing.
Dplexing is where I think the pve gets to be a bit too much. (LP is not my concern - I don't care if defensive plexs pay nothing)
I and a few corpies have been on for an hour or two most nights this week (au tz) and there are no fw people looking for fights. Everyone is stuck in a dplexing grind to keep their homes safe. (Including us)
Allot of the pvpers in amarr base out of egghelende which is a low sec system that is near the center of the war zone but not actually a faction war system. That way they can spend their game time pvping instead of deplexing.
I just left the militia all together and love the ability to dock/reship anywhere plus you are not blue to about 2/5ths of the people you see in plexes. 99% of my pvp is still in and around plexes. Your scanner will still show them even though you are not in fw.
If you are not in fw for the lp there is no reason to be in fw now. The removal of the 15 minute gcc means the "free wardec" has almost no significance.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
850
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 15:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:
Allot of the pvpers in amarr base out of egghelende which is a low sec system that is near the center of the war zone but not actually a faction war system. That way they can spend their game time pvping instead of deplexing.
I just left the militia all together and love the ability to dock/reship anywhere plus you are not blue to about 2/5ths of the people you see in plexes. 99% of my pvp is still in and around plexes. Your scanner will still show them even though you are not in fw.
If you are not in fw for the lp there is no reason to be in fw now. The removal of the 15 minute gcc means the "free wardec" has almost no significance.
Being in FW adds content to the game for me. I have a reason to shoot people in FW - even if it is RP based, it's content that gives me a defined goals and targets. As a pirate I would have to consider people I know/like in Caldari as targets - I personally do not wish to shoot at the people I have known/flown with all this time.
I think the reason to shoot people is important. But fw really doesn't add much in that regard - its pretty much rvb. IMO the occupancy mechanic is a joke.
As far as shooting people you have flown with, I agree thats a drawback in some cases. I really don't know who most of the thousands of people in the amarr and caldari faction war are. Moreover, there were always a few people I wished I could shoot in the amarr militia and now I can. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
850
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 15:53:00 -
[79] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Cearain wrote: I would put the average at about 1 kill per hour per system.
This is an issue with your analysis - right now, there's not enough people in FW to really populate all the systems. So activity is centered around a few systems, and no-one but farmers really care about the other systems. ....
It's hard to say the problem is with the number of players. The miliitas have about 19,000 pilots to cover 170 systems.
The problem is there are not enough active pvpers. I predict that if the fw occupancy mechanic was more of a pvp mechanic more pvpers would participate and the 170 systems would easilly be covered. Just like now its a pve mechanic so we get allot of pvers.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
850
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 18:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain. It looks like you basically want a channel with even more free intel. Isn't local, dotlan, the contested status of every system, beacons visible on the overview, and the Dscanner not enough?
Should soldiers in the army pay the government to let them know where they need to go fight?
Should the militia charge its members to let them know where their military complexes are being attacked?
Your complaint against "free intel" is pretty silly. But Ill play along, how much should we pay for it? How about 1 million isk a week so that my miliita will notify me where its military complexes are being attacked?
But I will answer your question: Its obviously not enough since the mechanic is clearly a pve mechanic. The first step to making it pvp, as XG says, is to have someone show up to contest the plex. Well the first step in doing that is letting people know where they need to go to contest the plex. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
850
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 18:40:00 -
[81] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:11 pages in and still same bull just a different spin on it
4 years and the same problem with occupancy so of course the solution is the same. CCP never did anything to address the real problem with occupancy. They just threw isk at it. People didn't care about it before inferno and people don't care now. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
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Posted - 2013.03.19 19:22:00 -
[82] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote:
But I will answer your question: Its obviously not enough since the mechanic is clearly a pve mechanic. The first step to making it pvp, as XG says, is to have someone show up to contest the plex. Well the first step in doing that is letting people know where they need to go to contest the plex.
Having your militia providing intel is a pve mechanic. Having NPCs do this for you is a pvp mechanic. Ok. I wouldn't mind a notification to say that plexes are being run in a system. But having a perfect rundown of your enemies fleet composition every time they pass a plex gate seems a bit much.
Finding another player to fight is the first and longest step to pvp. So although yes it would be the npc militia letting you know where the complexes are being attacked it would in fact lead to pvp.
As for not giving exact details on ship types - I would prefer it, but even just letting us know where our military complexes are being attacked would be a start. Currently "hide and plex" is how to plex most efficiently and it is not very fun or warlike. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 19:40:00 -
[83] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: Ok so, i think this would be a good time to remind you that this is a computer game. Part of the fun is the hunt. PvP's a journey, not a destination..
You may like "hunting" I think its boring. I like fighting.
Eve has plenty of mechanics for those who like to roam around "hunting." But very few where you get allot of fighting.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: Speaking of which, i started hunting you when your other toon passed through nis the yesterday. I was elbow deep in pvp and potential pvp all night in that area. You just passed through without pausing for long enough to do a quick d-scan survey..
If that is the case I was probably in low structure and just looking to get repairs. Or all the plexes were within 14 au and I could tell they were all empty or of ship types and numbers I couldn't match. Here is a tip, you can scan while you are still under your gate cloak.
I have found that I can sit in the main gallente hubs and if anything comes it will be at least 3 destroyers and a griffin to fight a t1 frigate.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: You are truly terrible at finding pvp in eve. If i were YOU, i would want a notification of everyones whereabouts too..
You of course don't know what you are talking about. You see my ship one time leave a system and presume to know how good I am at finding pvp.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: As far as plexing goes, i can honestly say that 90% of the plexes i have entered in the last few days have lead to pvp..
Thats probably because you wait until your buddy gets a point on something before you come in to blob it.
I do see you crowing in local about your gatecamping skills or how you are so good with your boosters. None of which are of interest to me.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: People farming vacant plexes? who cares, only you. But i doubt you could articulate why other than you like to cry about stuff, constantly.
I have articulated why I think it would be great if the fighting in plexes was going on throughout fw.
You have said numerous times that you do not care about occupancy in 90% of systems. Under the current system I agree. Actually under the current system I don't care about it in 100% of the systems. Thats why I left fw and just go in plexes for the pvp.
You can keep gate camping blobbing and bragging in local, it seems to be your calling in this game.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 19:53:00 -
[84] - Quote
Juan Rayo wrote:Jeez man, your notification system sucks big time, everyone who IS actually in faction warfare can tell you that. Its not my idea. It was proposed years ago. And has been supported by many people in faction war until fw started drawing farmers like crazy.
So yeah now lots of people in fw are against their farming income being nerfed - no surprise.
Juan Rayo wrote: Not only would people get spammed all the time with "notificacions" ([[Local Defense: Vlillrier is under attack!]) but it does nothing that people in intel channels don-¦t already do..
You should be able to filter the notifications. And the player intel channels are weak. When XG suggested people start notifying the militia when they see plexers the response was that it is too much work for a computer game. The reponse is correct.
Juan Rayo wrote: That-¦s what intel channels are for. If you want a group that will keep posting intel, help them do it, show them how. Our intel channels are pretty busy and people report wts in plexes all over the place. The decision to go and fight them is a pvp decision made by players, according to what they are doing, what they are flying, if they care for the system being reported or not etc..
Any player made ad hoc system will never have the efficiency or effectiveness of a set notification system. The farmers are not detered from the occassional report of a plexer.
Juan Rayo wrote: If you want more people fighting over more backwater systems, then we the players are the ones with the obligation to recruit more players and more corporations for FW and convince them to go live near those systems. Gallente has people living in vlill, Eha, Essesier, Nisuya, Heyd (I hope after we re-took it last night), Eugales and so on. Those corps and pilots actively defend their systems, and those around them...
There are currently about 19000 players in faction war and the number of systems being fought over is only 170. I don't think we need more players. The pvpers need better tools.
Juan Rayo wrote: If your problem is the farmers, well, everything in Eve has those. Everything. Farmers will farm stop worrying about them. As it is right now it-¦s working MUCH better than it was before..
Yes its better than before. But its still broken.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 19:56:00 -
[85] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:It's a good time to remind everybody that Cearain's proposals do not accomplish his stated goal. His proposals are "chase rabbit-then pve" - which, of course, we can do already.
XG you continue to try to argue against letting players know where plexes are being taken so that they can fight for them. Just how much do your alts make?
No chasing necessary if you have a notification system. And there would be far less pve in plexes, and far more pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 20:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
Juan Rayo wrote:Cearain wrote:
There are currently about 19000 players in faction war and the number of systems being fought over is only 170. I don't think we need more players. The pvpers need better tools.
And how them are active, an how many of those live in lowsec? I know for a fact good, regular size gallente corp live in either highsec or non fw lowsec. A huge Amarr fw alliance lives in non fw system. How many caldari live in Icho or around in their highsec?.
They all have active accounts. I don't know the answers to the other questions. Lots of them are no doubt alts farming plexes contributing little or nothing to pvp yet having a huge impact on occupancy.
Juan Rayo wrote: This is not CCP-¦s faul, it-¦s player decisions. If those people decided to live in lowsec and fight for their systems, even more of them would be fought for.
Well ccp was told that just throwing isk at faction war plexing, without making them more of a pvp mechanic, would lead to this. Yet they decided to just throw isk at plexing and this is what we got.
Juan Rayo wrote: You are taking a very particular fw experience (yours) and trying to force it down everybody else-¦s throats, even while many of us IN faction warfare keep telling you there is a lot of pvp happening, and we have the killboards to prove it. You maybe saw Crossi gatecamping once, and decided that-¦s all he does even while his KB will show you the huge ammount of solo or small gang fights the man gets involved with. His secret? He goes out and LOOKS for fights, no notification needed.
I don't doubt that their is more pvp in low sec and in faction war in particular. But the pvp in faction war has very little to do with occupancy. The 90% of the top vp gainers are not pvping at all.
Juan Rayo wrote: As for intel channels being too much work? again,. that-¦s a player problem not a CCP problem. If some guy decides it-¦s too much work to report intel, that-¦s his problem. There are enough of us in galmil with both regional and "whole area" channels that do report them and get into fights.
Again getting in fights does not = winning the occupancy war. When gallente did their push to gain occupancy their pvp per pilot was much lower than it was after that occupancy push ended. I am not saying people in the miltiias never pvp. My point is that the occupancy war should not be the carebear race it currently is.
You say its not ccps fault that the occupancy war is a carebear race. I disagree. It is a natural result of the mechanics they put in place and yes it is working as predicted.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 20:20:00 -
[87] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:tbh noone apart from cearein said reporting was too much work. I just think thats a code for noone liked him and he never got into intel channels...... thats what this whole debates probably about his own shortcomings in fw and his inability to find targets in a target rich environment hence his need for a "map" to show him were to go...... << also in b4 the thats what she said jokes ;)
Princess Nexxala made the comment that it was too much work. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 20:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:sooooo heres how it goes .... gets notifaction of plex being run in a backwater it still doesnt go and get defended cos its a bacwater and noone gives a fk............. ya makes it a total pvp mechanic huh
Nope people flying around would set the destination and be there ready to fight in minutes. If you kept warping off then this combined with a timer rollback would mean no more lp for farmers. Hence everyone in a plex would be ready to fight for it. The number of fights per plex would skyrocket and the fw occupancy war would stop being a carebear joke. Winning all the systems would actually be something to be proud of. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 21:10:00 -
[89] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:why would a notification suddenly make a system noone gives a fk about suddenly become disrable???? get real....
Becasue the occupancy game would no longer be joke of a carebear race.
ALUCARD 1208 wrote: im proud of taking all the systems now sooooooo mute point mate
Thats pathetic.
But then again I thought you said no one cared about some of the systems? Your faction had to win them all, to get that carebear medal. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 21:26:00 -
[90] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:why would a notification suddenly make a system noone gives a fk about suddenly become disrable???? get real.... Becasue the occupancy game would no longer be joke of a carebear race. ALUCARD 1208 wrote: im proud of taking all the systems now sooooooo mute point mate
Thats pathetic. But then again I thought you said no one cared about some of the systems? Your faction had to win them all, to get that carebear medal. You have the messed up priorities of a roleplayer. Low sec occupancy IS SUPPOSED to be a joke.
Well then we agree its pathetic for Alucard to be proud of his medal. Because we agree it is currently a joke.
We disagree that it is supposed to be a joke. I think it is supposed to add a context to the fighting so its not all just rvb. I think it should add depth and strategy to faction war fighting.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: Its there to generate pvp. Which it does for all those that know how to find it. Your problems in low sec and inability to find pvp start closer to home.
For example, right now im running the minor facility in tama, got 2 fights in first 5 minutes.
The reason to make fw occupancy better, is not just to make the pvp more frequent, but also to make the occupancy war a good game and worth playing. It is not now a good game. Therefore people don't care about it in 90% of systems.
If it were a good game then people would care about winning the systems, just like they care about winning at any good game. And note this has nothign to do with isk! It has to do with people wanting to win a good game and not caring if they lose a horrible game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 13:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote: im proud of taking all the systems now sooooooo mute point mate
Thats pathetic. But then again I thought you said no one cared about some of the systems? Your faction had to win them all, to get that carebear medal. We had to evict Caldari out of every single home system - Rakapas saw constant fighting, except for a few hours around downtime, for two solid days. There were multiple black frog shipments arriving for the Caldari as the fighting raged, and the gallente alt logistics were kept very busy as well. After Rakapas, other home systems saw heavy fighting, but no-one fought as hard and as timezone spread out as Rakapas. Doing so while trying to keep all backwater systems under control was also a logistical challenge, but it could never have happenned without the pvp dominance in the home systems.
Yes you needed to have the numbers to take the home systems. But you also needed the farmer alts in the backwaters. If no one cared about the other 90% of the systems, this would have been impossible. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 13:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: No chasing necessary if you have a notification system. And there would be far less pve in plexes, and far more pvp.
Really, how are you going to run the rabbit out of the plex? In any case, for clarification: "Chase" = You warping into plex to attack rabbit. "PVE" = You sitting on button until plex is complete after the rabbit leaves. Everybody (but you) knows we have more than enough opportunities to do this already without notification system.
Chase does not equal going into a plex. Chase = chasing rabbit after he leaves plex.
PVE = you sitting on a button when no one even knows you are there and therefore no one comes in to fight. Look at the killboards for the days that the top daily vp earners get the top vp spots.
If the rabbit leaves and you stay but others in the militia know exactly where you are capping a plex there will be one or 2 people in the militia a jump or 2 away who want a fight. They will come.
You make it sound like everyone in militia are just rabbits who hate pvp outside the blob. Thats not the case. And even if that is the case now, that would change over time with notifications and rollbacks.
The mechanics attract certain types of players. Right now rabbits find fw very attractive because they can hide in backwaters and make isk. If the mechanics prevent people from hiding and make it easier to find pvp in plexes then the mechanics will attract a different sort of player. This is what you seem to fail to understand. You keep thinking that even if the mechanics change to make it much less profitable for rabbits to make isk they will still stay around in the same numbers and the pvpers will still assume everyone is a rabbit so not even try to find a fight. Changing mechanics changes who is attracted to the game and how they play the game.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 13:40:00 -
[93] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:why would a notification suddenly make a system noone gives a fk about suddenly become disrable???? get real.... Becasue the occupancy game would no longer be joke of a carebear race. still wouldnt make people care about backwaters you didnt answer the question u just skirted round it............ now cmon why would a notification system make a system more desirable
I did answer the question you just didn't like the answer. Why don't you think about it. Why do people want to win at any game? Take an amature soccer game, pool or baseball? Why do they want to win? Because they get isk? Because they are good games and fun to try winning.
Right now occupancy is a matter of who can get the most alts orbitting systems in back waters in stabbed ships. People can look up the killboards of those who are the best at it and see that it is a horrible game. It's not a good game that is fun to try winning. That is why no one cares. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 13:46:00 -
[94] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:No, we fundamentally disagree. FW occupancy isnt meant to be serious. Its just there to provide a context and driver for PvP. It does. If you want serious occupancy, dull-sec is available.
Where did I say it should be more "serious"? I want the occupancy game to be a good one. Soccer is a good game. Is it serious? You make no sense.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: There are tweaks needed to discourage farmers, but to be totally honest, farmers have their place.
If it wasnt for farmers getting un-cared for systems to vulnerable constantly, there would be no catalyst for BC/BS fleets in FW low sec. The more often systems go vulnerable, and are flpped, the more often there is a significant number of high dps ships in space creating content for everyone.
You are just a blathering roleplayer with no idea whats best for the game.
Yep we definitely disagree I am against the current mechanics where pve farmers control 90% of the systems. You are fine with it. We finally got to the bottom of it.
And what is with the roleplayer bit? You really don't know what you are talking about. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society the devil's tattoo
854
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 13:50:00 -
[95] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:im sorry but you never answered it all u said was Quote: Becasue the occupancy game would no longer be joke of a carebear race that doesnt explain how a system noone gives a fk about suddenly makes people give a fk
Thats not all I said. Read my response a few posts up. If you think long enough and hard, it might sink in. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:53:00 -
[96] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: If the rabbit leaves and you stay but others in the militia know exactly where you are capping a plex there will be one or 2 people in the militia a jump or 2 away who want a fight. They will come.
They are not going to get a fight from a rabbit. You know this. I know this. The guys one or two jumps away know this. The rabbit knows this.
Yes because the rabbits can not stay and fight, and because he knows notifications and rollbacks will make it easy for pvpers to defend the plexes, the rabbits will leave. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 19:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
Takseen wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote: also u say wen u get there u chase out the farmer and u finish the plex thats making it just as much pve as the farmer running it imo
I think some people might chase the farmers just out of principle, or to protect their Tier level. Which of course would only matter if they do LP farming themselves. Because as we've more or less established, hardly anyone cares about non-strategic systems that aren't lived in by someone.
But we have not established why no one cares about 90% of the systems.
My view is that people don't care about the fw sov game outside their base system, because the game is broken. If the fw sov game were fixed people would care and they would fight for all the systems. Its no different than any other game. If the game is a good one people will try to win. If its bad/broken they won't care.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
859
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Posted - 2013.04.02 21:41:00 -
[98] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:But we have not established why no one cares about 90% of the systems.
Why have YOU never cared about 100% of the systems?
Because the fw sov game is bad/broken. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
859
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Posted - 2013.04.02 21:56:00 -
[99] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote:
My view is that people don't care about the fw sov game outside their base system, because the game is broken. If the fw sov game were fixed people would care and they would fight for all the systems. Its no different than any other game. If the game is a good one people will try to win. If its bad/broken they won't care.
Well Its already been said why people aren't too pushed about Sov. Current benefits are -docking rights. But you only need this for a few HQ systems where you keep all your stuff -LP rewards. Which you only care about if you do any plexing. -IHub bonuses. Probably too weak to care about at present. -A shiny medal if you capture everything. Possibly too little reward for too much effort, and its all or nothing.
I look at things differently.
Lp, industry, and other things that create isk are just things of value in this game. But if the game itself is bad they are worthless.
The shiny medal is only worth something if what you did to get it is considered meritorious. If fw sov was pvp based it would be meritorious. That medal would be like being on the winning team in an alliance tournament. People would continue to strive to get it, because it is seen a good meritorious game.
The most important thing is to make trying to win fw sov a "good game." If you do that people will start to care about winning systems - just like people care about winning at soccer, darts, or chess or any other good game.
The whole station lockouts just makes the game worse. They have a broken sov mechanic where you do not know when people are capturing your military complexes. Then since you don't know where they are being captured you either will not be able to dock there and have to waste time in logistics. Or you will have to waste time orbitting a button yourself.
Its sort of like extortion. Either you will engage in this boring game mechanics or you will be punished and have to do even more boring stuff later. Why not emphasize the fun/good parts of the game? Pvp is a fun/good part of eve. Why not make fw sov focus more on that? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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