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GSBarlan
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Posted - 2005.07.29 18:06:00 -
[1]
I am sure this has been asked but I can't find it so please don't flame out of habit.
Why are agent mission NPC's now HARDER to kill (more hitpoints ect) while LOWER in bounty???
I can understand and would agree that they were a bit on the light side (hitpoints) before but now they are harder AND worth less???
Please put the original Bountys back in place. Since it takes more Torps/CM's now to kill the lower end ships the ratio of cost/reward has seriously decreased. Not to mention the fact that when we go after BS's in lvl 4 missions at least they are of course usually surrounded by frigs and cruisers. They are ALL now harder (more missles to kill <for those of us that use missles>) AND take even more missles to kill since the missle ballance.
So WHY are the bounties lowered???? And saying that there are now more ships to kill doesn't hold much water since (usually) more ships means more Frigs and more cruisers. Again the cost/benifit ratio takes a hit.
Add to all of this that the BS's generally drop frig or cruiser loot and occasionally a standerd BS mod mission runners are getting shafted.
When I started this game the ways to make GOOD money were as followes:
(this is what multiple people told me)
Mining (0.0) Agent lvl 3's Production Playing the market Research
Well, at the time we wern't anywhere NEAR ready for 0.0 so we all skilled up to run lvl 3's... And we made good ISK.
Now for those of us that enjoy running missions we have spent a good chunk of our time getting to where we can do lvl 3 and 4 missions. Then the # of NPC's in missions got trippled, Then that was fixed, then all the good drops were taken out, Then the implant missions got removed, Then the NPC's got more Hitpoints, and NOW THEY HAVE LESS BOUNTY.
I ask that a Dev Please respond to explain why this has occured and if agent missions are going to get a re-vamp or if they are going to be left as is.
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MineallMine
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Posted - 2005.07.29 18:58:00 -
[2]
The bounties were lowered because the Devs felt the rewards for level 4 were out of balance, especiall in the high sec systems.
Level 3 missions are still paying about the same, and if you move out to a lower secirity system the rewards will be nice.
With the missle balancing you have three options, 1) keep throwing money at the elite frigs 2) train up your sniping skill (even a raven can snipe) 3) go closer range and fit some heavies or assaults.
Personally, I like the chages. Losing out on some isk sucks, but the missle and NPC changes have made missions more enjoyable, last night I took out a 3 BS spawn in an AF, I couldn't have done that pre-patch.
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GSBarlan
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Posted - 2005.07.29 19:31:00 -
[3]
So it is true that the rewards for doing a lvl 4 mission in a .4 system are greater then doing a lvl 4 in a 1.0 or .9 system (say that u had the exact same agent in both places)?
If yes then please define reward: More ISK for completion, better loot drops, Better bonuses, or More ships to kill (bringing in more bounty)?
I also agree that running a lvl 4 in an AF is extreemly fun but it also takes much longer to do. For those that solo lvl 4's, how long does it take U (on an average DAY of running missions) yes some are going to be MUCH longer and some shorter but on average how long? Give the mission name if u want for compairison. Then we can take it a step further and say for a group of 5 (any fleet makeup u wish) and how long it takes u.
Now obviously 5 are going to do it faster then just one guy soloing it but then we look at what the split is....
Would u agree that, if one were to solo a lvl 4 it would take about the same ammount of time to make the same ammount of ISK if that member was running 3 lvl 3 missions at a time for the same ammount of time??
Now I MUCH rather doing lvl 4 missions and plodding thru it then spamming lvl 3's but for the same ammount of ISK the lvl 3 is about 100x safer then the lvl 4's solo. IF its THAT much more difficult shouldn't the reward be MUCH higher??? I mean, how many here that have BS's that have done lvl 3 missions NEED a wingmate to help????????????
I know that from the start CCP didn't want to make lvl 4's solo'able. Fine, Make them harder and add a bonus for more people in the gang!
I can make 2-3 mill an hour doing lvl 3's (without looting). With lvl 4's and a group of 5 I might make 5 mill off a 2-3 hour run (again without loot).
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.07.29 20:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 29/07/2005 20:31:01 Yes; Slightly higher ISK reward for the mission (Not worth counting though)
Less lag and somewhat higher lps is worth it tough
One thing thoughl you mentioned both 0.0 mining and lvl 3 missions anda good source of income, i think its safe to say 0.0 mining needs to make you WAAAAAAAAAYY more money then lvl 3 missions. Which it does of course... ------------------
[WTT: Vigilant] |
GSBarlan
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Posted - 2005.07.29 20:37:00 -
[5]
Yeah, sorry I forgot to mention an order :P I changed it.
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Wolf SteinerDavion
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Posted - 2005.07.30 00:43:00 -
[6]
You can make ridiculous amounts of money on the market provided you have some capital to start with. It's the best way to make money if you're smart.
It's #1 moneymaker easily.
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Minsc
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Posted - 2005.07.31 04:04:00 -
[7]
I run a so-so quality level 3 agent in 0.1 space. One of the best missions I get is angel extraveganza isk-wise. On average the base reward is about 1 million isk, plus a bonus reward of another million isk, once I tally up all the bounty isk the whole mission will usually net me about 5-6 million plus any mods that may drop (the odd good one drops now and then but I usually keep donate them to corp. It takes me about an hour to complete that mission and collect the loot. I have not done the final bonus stage yet so that could go higher if I could get the angel palladium tags somewhere for cheap.
Not too bad for a level 3 mission but level 4's can be more lucrative in a group if you can blow through them quickly enough
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.07.31 12:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 31/07/2005 12:38:04
Originally by: Minsc I run a so-so quality level 3 agent in 0.1 space. One of the best missions I get is angel extraveganza isk-wise. On average the base reward is about 1 million isk, plus a bonus reward of another million isk, once I tally up all the bounty isk the whole mission will usually net me about 5-6 million plus any mods that may drop (the odd good one drops now and then but I usually keep donate them to corp. It takes me about an hour to complete that mission and collect the loot. I have not done the final bonus stage yet so that could go higher if I could get the angel palladium tags somewhere for cheap.
Not too bad for a level 3 mission but level 4's can be more lucrative in a group if you can blow through them quickly enough
When CCP made the missions harder and decreased bounty/rewards, they also decreased the incentive to do level 4 missions in groups. The more people in your group the less pay and even you do them fast, it doesnt really matter because pay is still less.
3 people doing a level 4 mission can make more isk together mining veldspar in 1.0 space per hour.
As for those who claim level 4 missions was intended for groups, well maybe they was that befor they was introduced to the game, but once they was in the word was they was intended for SOLO PLAY, but some of the missions might need you to ask for help from friends etc. Zrakor said so a few times on this forum.
There is no in-game mechanics to support proper groupings. Like shared LP, standings, rewards, bonus's. The only thing that get shared is the bounties that been decreased in value and the risk that been upped quite a bit. I see the current changes as CCP forcing groupings for level 4 missions without have the proper mechancis in place to support it.
Players that is not interested in missions, and was envyous on what mission runners could make of isk in empire care less about the state of agents and missions. However they seem to hower around the block to throw off some flames if you start complain about how it is now.
Its good to know that NPC'ing in 0.0 become harder as well. The changes affect the economy as well. Agent runners that used to spend a lot of isk to kit their ships with the good stuff, now will be more carefull about how they spend their isk. Just leading to the value of good modules, bpc's, ships etc get deflated as people lose buying power.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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wolf
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Posted - 2005.07.31 21:01:00 -
[9]
Is it just me or does nearly every thread like this have an unhealthy obsession with isk per hour?
I appreciate that without a decent income of isk from his chosen profession ingame the player eventually suffers and yes I'm in the fortunate position after a couple of years solo play that losing a couple of kitted out battleships doesn't do critical damage to my wallet but this thread prompted me consider why I choose to do level 4's solo.
Tha answer has nothing to do with how much isk I make, how much loot I get, etc. and everything to do with the fun and challenge of going up against difficult spawns, using tactics and strategy to defeat them and getting a real sense of satisfaction from knowing that I've beaten the odds
Surely I'm not alone in this view? If you're making enough isk to cover your losses and build up your wallet too and having fun to boot does it really matter that the BS you used to get 750k for now only gives 300k?
I do agree with your original post GSBarlan, dropping the bounties as well as all the other patch changes seems a bit odd given the increased risk now but it has in no way dampened my enthusiasm, in fact the patch changes have made level 4's in a Raven a real joy imo.
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.07.31 21:40:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Moghydin on 31/07/2005 21:41:47 What I noticed is that although lvl 3 missions have the same rewards, the loot was somewhat nerfed. That is very much in line with the intention of making missions less profitable. Only thing I can not understand is why 0.0 dwellers were so ****ed off by the amount of ISK, mission-runners were doing in high sec. IMO, these 2 worlds nearly never intersect one with the other (except when 0.0 guys get the chance to shoot at empire guys). The rewards in 0.0 were and still are great: faction loot, rarest ores, best complexes, so why they were so concerned? Was it like: "OMG, how that mission runner can earn so much isk in empire without me having the chance to blow his ship to shreds"? Missions surely need some boosting now, because nerfing empire won't push the players into 0.0. Players will come to 0.0 if and because they want, not because they were pushed there.
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Missy Meatshield
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Posted - 2005.07.31 23:09:00 -
[11]
For people with brains its easy to understand that they made bounties less profitable because they want to reduce inflation and that means less money has to be given out..... DUH.
It also means people who want to become billionaires need to mine minerals and that means having to claim 0.0 space.... which is a good thing.
The developers know what they are doing and only children with low brain activity question them.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.01 04:07:00 -
[12]
u can make a lot of ISK off LP offers from agents - 15000 LP might get u Military connections skill which is 150-200M on market. Thats about 2-3 days worth - u sell that - works out an extra 2M per hour if you are playing 23/7
Missions well bounties have been nerfed - the idea is to move around different corps (NPC) have a stream of agents get a dodgy mission from one - move to the next do that 2-3 times and youll get a good oen - just remember the 4 hour rule on knocking back missions.
Do some mining occasionally more can be made from low sec now with zyd going into jaspet and hemo (7 zyd per 500 units of standard jaspet)with mid range refining skills.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.01 07:52:00 -
[13]
SSDD
Nice post by the way Wolf.
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.08.01 18:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Missy Meatshield F
The developers know what they are doing and only children with low brain activity question them.
Who are we to argue
Tbh i can't think of one single mistake in over 2 years of playing on the developers part, overkills have hit and changed and swung at with the mighty bat.. it's all been practicaly perfect in every way.
Then ofcourse i woke up and had my corn flakes -------- Roy |
GSBarlan
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:05:00 -
[15]
Quote: The developers know what they are doing and only children with low brain activity question them.
ROFLMAO Can I come live in your dream world??
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