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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hershman
Creepers Corporation Creepers Alliance
195
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Most players don't post on the forums. Please don't take what they say and interpret it as representative of the community as a whole.
This survey is a step in the right direction. I would love to see more surveys in-game as opposed to on the website or on the side of the login screen. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8122
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
We're the only players that matter... the only ones that care enough to take time to come here "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
98
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 02:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
...I'm getting this strange case of deja vu. Anyways... while in game attached to an EVE mail would probably be more effective, I think you might just be stating the obvious otherwise. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
341
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes CCP, please listen to players who don't even care about the state of the game enough to visit the forums. They're definitely the ones who you'll win or lose by making changes. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Hershman
Creepers Corporation Creepers Alliance
195
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes. Survey by Eve-Mail with appropriate unsubscribe option would be optimal. |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
452
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pretty sure CCP does a good job of separating the wheat from the chaff. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Hershman
Creepers Corporation Creepers Alliance
195
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:We're the only players that matter... the only ones that care enough to take time to come here
The people who come here all the time love to talk.
You are nothing more than every subscribing player in eve. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8122
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hershman wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:We're the only players that matter... the only ones that care enough to take time to come here The people who come here all the time love to talk. You are nothing more than every subscribing player in eve.
If every other subscribing player had been here for 6+ years you'd have a point.
Otherwise, shaddup noob "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Torakenat
Noghri Strike Force
52
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Yes CCP, please listen to players who don't even care about the state of the game enough to visit the forums. They're definitely the ones who you'll win or lose by making changes.
Not posting on a forum =/= not caring about a game.
Especially, in regards to the company that resides here on the forums.
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Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
154
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:We're the only players that matter... the only ones that care enough to take time to come here
I was thinking on the lines of those who have the most psychiatrict issues. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
98
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
There are seriously people who believe that not posting in the forums means you don't care about the game? Wow... just... wow. I'm sorry, but some people refuse to deal with trolls, have their ideas rudely torn apart with no constructive criticism, and I could really write a book report on reasons why someone might care but not post in the forums. Dear lord I hope these people are trolling and avoid any and all jobs where they have to serve customers, because that's the kind of attitude that destroys pretty much any company. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
532
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hershman wrote:Most players don't post on the forums. Please don't take what they say and interpret it as representative of the community as a whole.
This survey is a step in the right direction. I would love to see more surveys in-game as opposed to on the website or on the side of the login screen.
http://i.imgur.com/BHkr164.png |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
342
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Posted - 2013.02.24 02:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Torakenat wrote:Not posting on a forum =/= not caring about a game. Yes, it really does. This is where all the discussion about the game takes place. If you don't care to be part of that discussion, that is your choice, and your loss.
If you are so apathetic that even going in to a thread and typing "I agree/disagree" and pressing reply is too much effort, damn right your opinion doesn't matter. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
98
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Torakenat wrote:Not posting on a forum =/= not caring about a game. Yes, it really does. This is where all the discussion about the game takes place. If you don't care to be part of that discussion, that is your choice, and your loss. If you are so apathetic that even going in to a thread and typing "I agree/disagree" and pressing reply is too much effort, damn right your opinion doesn't matter.
I hope you never get into business... because you would fail... horribly. I believe the saying goes a little like this.. for every customer complaint, 26 remain silent. So by the time the majority of your vocal customers complain, the damage has already gone pretty far. Which is what your viewpoint ultimately amount to. Plus there is plenty of ways to vocalize one's views without airing them in public anyways. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
342
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:I hope you never get into business... because you would fail... horribly. I believe the saying goes a little like this.. for every customer complaint, 26 remain silent. So by the time the majority of your vocal customers complain, the damage has already gone pretty far. And the suggestion that you ignore the vocal ones helps this... how? [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
rareden
The Skunkworks
14
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
baha! yea the only people ccp listens to is the carebears and that's only if they shower them with moneys. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
533
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you don't feel like filling out the surveys, don't vote in the CSM elections, don't get involved in the community, and don't post any sort of criticism in the forums then you really don't have a case if CCP does something you don't like. You have plenty of opportunity to voice your concerns, if you choose not to and something you don't like happens it's your own fault.
You can't possibly ask CCP to read people's minds. They're very communicative and highly receptive to player input, arguably more so than any other game development company on the planet. If you start your dialogue by threatening to press the unsubscribe button any decent business would throw you out the door because it's not worth dealing with your childishness. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
154
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Torakenat wrote:Not posting on a forum =/= not caring about a game. Yes, it really does. This is where all the discussion about the game takes place. If you don't care to be part of that discussion, that is your choice, and your loss. If you are so apathetic that even going in to a thread and typing "I agree/disagree" and pressing reply is too much effort, damn right your opinion doesn't matter.
Well here is the crux of the matter...
From my understanding the forums are only a small fraction of the player base in most games including EVE.
For arguments sake I'm going to pull a number out of my butt and say 10% (I only get one person in game ever noticing me I post on the forums for example).
So if the CCP devs make a change based on the 10% suggestion and somehow **** off the 90% off then that is bad for business.
It is why devs don't implement every idea that comes up on the forums and is why they don't listen to everything a CSM says.
Just because you don't care enough to make walls of text doesn't mean that your money isn't as valid as someone who complains a lot and demands CCP to do something.
And to continue on this subject the OP and your arguments are rather pointless as a CCP dev willprobaly just look at this thread and sign a little but then move on to more pressing matters.
Then again its rather strange to see a thread telling CCP to not let threads tell them what to do. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
98
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:I hope you never get into business... because you would fail... horribly. I believe the saying goes a little like this.. for every customer complaint, 26 remain silent. So by the time the majority of your vocal customers complain, the damage has already gone pretty far. And the suggestion that you ignore the vocal ones helps this... how?
Never suggested that they do, but you don't pretend the non-vocal don't exist and you do your best to track what they do so that you serve all your customers to the best of your ability. Seriously, need to stop putting words into other people's mouths. |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
1
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
What survey? |
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
342
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:So if the CCP devs make a change based on the 10% suggestion and somehow **** off the 90% off then that is bad for business. You are making the fallacious assumption that the 90% care as much about the details of the game as the 10%. The 10% are a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to care more about such changes.
You are also making the fallacious assumption that that improving the game is as simple as doing what the players ask for. However, in reality, kneejerk reacting to every change request would eventually break the game. Thus suggestions from players who understand the game better should carry more weight than "plz nerf X" posts. And again, the 10% are a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to understand the game better. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
98
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 03:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:If you don't feel like filling out the surveys, don't vote in the CSM elections, don't get involved in the community, and don't post any sort of criticism in the forums then you really don't have a case if CCP does something you don't like. You have plenty of opportunity to voice your concerns, if you choose not to and something you don't like happens it's your own fault.
You can't possibly ask CCP to read people's minds. They're very communicative and highly receptive to player input, arguably more so than any other game development company on the planet. If you start your dialogue by threatening to press the unsubscribe button any decent business would throw you out the door because it's not worth dealing with your childishness.
You've just described everything a business is expected to do and HAS to deal with in order to be successful. Yeah, I know, hardly seems fair, but that's the business world, they have to look beyond what's immediately visible. Sometimes THEY have to be the ones asking the questions and make the questions well visible. This isn't really questionable. That's part of running a successful, customer friendly business takes whether you like it or not. CCP is aware of this already. They've clearly demonstrated they are by not always listening to the forums. By gathering data beyond the forums. Kind of makes this thread largely pointless actually. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
908
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 03:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you keep your mouth shut, you have no voice unless you live in a world filled with the clairvoyant. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
342
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Never suggested that they do, but you don't pretend the non-vocal don't exist and you do your best to track what they do so that you serve all your customers to the best of your ability. No-one is suggesting CCP ignore the players who don't care enough to post. Rather it is simply being pointed out that those who do care enough to post likely have a greater vested interest in and sensitivity to changes to the game.
Aren Madigan wrote:Seriously, need to stop putting words into other people's mouths. Is this addressed at me or yourself? Since you're the one doing it. See above.
Aren Madigan wrote:You've just described everything a business is expected to do and HAS to deal with in order to be successful. Yeah, I know, hardly seems fair, but that's the business world, they have to look beyond what's immediately visible. What would you suggest, beyond the elections, surveys and forums mentioned in the post you quoted? [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Hershman
Creepers Corporation Creepers Alliance
195
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
a lot of you forum posters are getting really defensive. obviously there is a bias |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
342
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 03:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hershman wrote:a lot of you forum posters are getting really defensive. obviously there is a bias And you are resorting to an ad hominem, obviously you realise the weakness of your argument. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
154
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:So if the CCP devs make a change based on the 10% suggestion and somehow **** off the 90% off then that is bad for business. You are making the fallacious assumption that the 90% care as much about the details of the game as the 10%. The 10% are a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to care more about such changes. You are also making the fallacious assumption that that improving the game is as simple as doing what the players ask for. However, in reality, kneejerk reacting to every change request would eventually break the game. Thus suggestions from players who understand the game better should carry more weight than "plz nerf X" posts. And again, the 10% are a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to understand the game better.
My god. You are making the fallacious assumptions I am saying things that I am not.
I didn't say the 90% cared more. I just said the potential to anger the 90% was there by implementing what the 10% suggested.
We could sit around and talk about the theoreticals of what this could be. I don't care. I am saying it is always possible.
Secondly, you seem to be acting like I said we should implement every change the forums suggest. Maybe there is some reading comprehension problems but I specifically have implied that doing so would be a bad idea. If the devs implemented everything the forums suggested, eve would be a terribly game. Where did I say otherwise.
And why in the hell would the 10% be more educated about the game? Most of these people are either ignorant about the game or just trolling. What in the world precludes about anyone knowing a great deal about the game but choosing not to waste their times mashing the keys on the keyboard.
Posting on the forums do not magically make you better informed about the game. You do not magically gain IQ points by being active on the forums. There is nothing that makes the people on the forums better simply because they produce large works easily replicated by monkies and typewriters. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
98
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 03:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Is this addressed at me or yourself? Since you're the one doing it. See above.
Crumplecorn wrote:And the suggestion that you ignore the vocal ones helps this... how?
Right there is where you did it. Game, set, match.
Crumplecorn wrote:What would you suggest, beyond the elections, surveys and forums mentioned in the post you quoted?
Metrics is a common method... tracking what triggers increase in customer activity. What a majority of customers are doing. What a majority of alt accounts are used for. There's a lot of things one can look at and that I'm sure they do. For example. Perhaps there's a lot of people who try the game and never sub. You can look at how long they played, what they did, maybe some of their chat records and try to pinpoint what went wrong. There's a lot of things really. And hell, sometimes the data matches strongly with what the more vocal are saying, strengthening their points. Those are the kind of things they likely look at and should probably continue to, and I'm fine with that. |
Hershman
Creepers Corporation Creepers Alliance
195
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Hershman wrote:a lot of you forum posters are getting really defensive. obviously there is a bias And you are resorting to an ad hominem, obviously you realise the weakness of your argument.
Not an argument. I stated a fact and asked CCP not to make a mistake.
But seeing as you come to these forums every day and argue your little prick off, I understand why you can't see the difference. This is only one reason some players might not want to post of these forums. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
342
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Posted - 2013.02.24 03:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I didn't say the 90% cared more. I just said the potential to anger the 90% was there by implementing what the 10% suggested. And I provided a argument for why that potential is minimal.
Captain Tardbar wrote:We could sit around and talk about the theoreticals of what this could be. I don't care. I am saying it is always possible. It's possible the sun won't rise tomorrow.
Captain Tardbar wrote:Secondly, you seem to be acting like I said we should implement every change the forums suggest. What I meant by that part was that even if the 90% want different things done to the game than the 10%, you still shouldn't necessarily listen to the 90%, because their ideas might have knock-on effects they can't see because of a lesser understanding of the game.
Captain Tardbar wrote:And why in the hell would the 10% be more educated about the game? Because if they have the impetus to post on the forum, that same impetus may drive them to actually consider the issue. And if it doesn't, they'll be told to STFU pretty quickly. Case in point: Who has put more thought into which players should be listened to when making changes? The people in this thread or a random selection of people who have never gone near the forums?
Captain Tardbar wrote:Posting on the forums do not magically make you better informed about the game. Cart before the horse. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
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