Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 20:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now I'm not advocating getting rid of it (though I think it's kind of dumb from a physics perspective), but in EVE there's almost always a counter to every strategy. That's one of the great things about the game.
Except, bumping in high-sec and lo-sec. I would like to see bumping from negative reputation flag them; or I would like to hold my ground and have them blow up on my hull with me taking damage. But bumping is an aggressive behavior and I should be able to shoot back. You can argue all your want for a change in high-sec safety issues and CONCORD enforced justice, but as it is now there is this dumb uncounterable loophole in the game's mechanics.
If you want to keep a ship from warping away, then fit a warp scrambler. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14289
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 20:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bumping is a perfectly legitimate mechanic to use. There are counters, but they require team mates and imagination.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 20:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Bumping is a perfectly legitimate mechanic to use. There are counters, but they require team mates and imagination.
I should have been specific to 1v1 counters then. |
Whitehound
1001
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 20:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is the Micro Jump Drive for battleships. If it could be fitted on other ships could these simply jump out of the path of the bumper.
Or you could just bump the bumper back.
Flying in a wide orbit also make bumping you tricky. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14295
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 20:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Mag's wrote:Bumping is a perfectly legitimate mechanic to use. There are counters, but they require team mates and imagination. I should have been specific to 1v1 counters then. I'm not sure it's wise to alter a mechanic, just to suit solo play. This is after all, an MMO.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
546
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Have you tried moving out of the way? |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Quintessen wrote:Mag's wrote:Bumping is a perfectly legitimate mechanic to use. There are counters, but they require team mates and imagination. I should have been specific to 1v1 counters then. I'm not sure it's wise to alter a mechanic, just to suit solo play. This is after all, an MMO.
MMOs have to support solo play because without it, there is no group play.
If I'm the first person to log on and no one is around, then if the only thing I can do it group play I'm not going to stick around long enough for someone else to log on. Solo play is the intermediate activity until enough people are on for group play.
While I don't make any claim to speak for the people, I for one prefer group play. EVE is a pretty crappy solo game. It's boring. But I tolerate the solo play while hoping someone will pop online so that I can do group play. I even go out and advertise the activity I'm doing in order for strangers to play as well, but I rarely have takers. EVE is sometimes too spread out.
EVE needs to improve both the single player experience, but also the group experience. |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Have you tried moving out of the way?
Funny. Yes. There are many classes of combat and non-combat ships that can't maneuver enough to get out of the way if the bumper is in an agile enough ship. |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
662
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
bumping is a brilliant mechanic for disrupting enemy warps or transversal movement. it takes a fair amount of pilot skill to do it to a moving target, and should be rewarded.
bumps against stationary targets are easily avoided (just move) and are not a real issue. |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:bumping is a brilliant mechanic for disrupting enemy warps or transversal movement. it takes a fair amount of pilot skill to do it to a moving target, and should be rewarded.
bumps against stationary targets are easily avoided (just move) and are not a real issue.
I'm not saying CCP should completely get rid of it, but give it a counter for ships, that for all intense and purposes, are stationary targets. Also I wouldn't mind it all all if it flagged you. But as it is, it's usually used as an uncounterable delaying tactic til reinforcements arrive. I can't see any real government or force who wouldn't recognize that as a hostile act. |
|
Alana Charen-Teng
Gordian Knot Holdings
295
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 00:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Counters to bumping: 1. Moving out of the way 2. Microwarpdrives to increase your ship mass, reducing the effectiveness of each bump 3. Positioning yourself near celestial geometry so that you aren't bumped very far (ie. near asteroids you're mining) 4. Have corpmates apply stasis webifiers to you
Physical accuracy is not a good justification for making changes to the game. After all, I think flying through planets is silly. |
Vin King
State War Academy Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 00:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
I can't wait to strategically park a few alts outside of Jita if this gets implemented. People maliciously bumping me allllll day long. 315 4 CSM 8 |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 00:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bumping should come with a 30% chance of your ship exploding, a suspect flag, and no insurance payout due to reckless driving. |
Vin King
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 00:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Bumping should come with a 30% chance of your ship exploding, a suspect flag, and no insurance payout due to reckless driving.
Soooooo parking alts outside of every trade hub. 315 4 CSM 8 |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 00:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vin King wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Bumping should come with a 30% chance of your ship exploding, a suspect flag, and no insurance payout due to reckless driving. Soooooo parking alts outside of every trade hub.
Makes bear cry. |
Niveuss Nye
The Advent of Faith
21
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 00:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Probably will never happen...
But I think it would be cool that if niether had shields, you would crash kamikazee style.
Think like the scene in Clear Skies where the on-its-last-legs Amarr titan was fixing to crash into a station till the pilot of the Clear Skies crashed into it. |
Ustrello
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 00:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Vin King wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Bumping should come with a 30% chance of your ship exploding, a suspect flag, and no insurance payout due to reckless driving. Soooooo parking alts outside of every trade hub. Makes bear cry.
Ironic |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
110
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 01:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quintessen wrote: If you want to keep a ship from warping away, then fit a warp scrambler.
Can't do much to a ship right after it undocks if they do not do anything first. Gratz on not picking a kick out station. You faked out the baddie station campers. Now you have to deal with the good ones who find a willing volunteer to slap on the biggest prop mod they can (which kills the fits for anything else most times) to knock your ass out the box and launch your ass hard.
Case of 0.0 and low you do this to knock a tricksy carrier/jf/dread out of dock range if their cyno was place well.. Point/scram won't do much when they can crawl in for the dock with tank riding out the beat down.
MIner on a belt, well....miners said ccp save us from suicide dessie ganks please. Gratz, you got that. Now people bump miners to bust balls. Would you like a server rollback to less tank potentially exhumers and mechanics that did not discourage suicide gank as much to not be bumped as much? |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
313
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 01:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quintessen wrote: my ground and have them blow up on my hull with me taking damage. But bumping is an aggressive behavior and I should be able to shoot back
Are you sure you would flag criminal for bumping? A lot of people at major trade hub undocking point would have a lot of fun with this.
|
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
42
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 02:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Quintessen wrote: my ground and have them blow up on my hull with me taking damage. But bumping is an aggressive behavior and I should be able to shoot back
Are you sure you would flag criminal for bumping? A lot of people at major trade hub undocking point would have a lot of fun with this.
This would be easily fixable with requiring an approach command first.
|
|
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
784
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 02:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:bumping is a brilliant mechanic for disrupting enemy warps or transversal movement. it takes a fair amount of pilot skill to do it to a moving target, and should be rewarded.
bumps against stationary targets are easily avoided (just move) and are not a real issue.
Err... No. Bumping is easy as cake in a small cruiser with oversized mwd. You turn it on after aiming. And moving a freighter out of the way is... impossible. Different size boats' handling are different.
I don't support counter for bumping, btw. But with these forums full of vets, don't expect to lie in their face and have it unanswered. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
110
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 03:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:This would be easily fixable with requiring an approach command first.
you have the problem of this game does not have precise control of ships....ie no joystick/throttle flight sim junky setups. You navigate by right clicking on points. That point could be a ship. A ship an empire bear might approach too fast.
Even in 0.0 where you have the "pro's" you always get those tards who warp to 0, or close to 0 too damn fast. Simple thing to not do, yet many fail at it. If there is no hope for 0.0 to solve this, training empire bears a tad more difficult. Trust me...I learned to not warp to 0 by hearing the tirades of pissed off titan pilots or fc's tear the bumping tards new asses. How others do not learn from this, I have no clue.
Empire bears won't have this motivation to remember the above lesson I learned.
Tl;dr....lacking fine ship controls you won't be seeing this happen. |
Fredfredbug4
The Scope Gallente Federation
457
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 03:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
All I see is whining, is this really that big of a problem? Is it worth CCP investing time and money to introduce a mechanic just so you don't have to move out of the way or pay attention?
Seriously, criminal flag just for bumping into someone? This is ridiculous. With this implemented I can be shot dead just from undocking from a busy station. I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
673
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 04:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Micro warp drives, afterburners, logoffski/relogging, and orbiting.
The very tools used to counter such a stupid tactic are already in the game and have been for some time.
You're welcome. /thread Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14299
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Mag's wrote:Quintessen wrote:Mag's wrote:Bumping is a perfectly legitimate mechanic to use. There are counters, but they require team mates and imagination. I should have been specific to 1v1 counters then. I'm not sure it's wise to alter a mechanic, just to suit solo play. This is after all, an MMO. MMOs have to support solo play because without it, there is no group play. If I'm the first person to log on and no one is around, then if the only thing I can do it group play I'm not going to stick around long enough for someone else to log on. Solo play is the intermediate activity until enough people are on for group play. While I don't make any claim to speak for the people, I for one prefer group play. EVE is a pretty crappy solo game. It's boring. But I tolerate the solo play while hoping someone will pop online so that I can do group play. I even go out and advertise the activity I'm doing in order for strangers to play as well, but I rarely have takers. EVE is sometimes too spread out. EVE needs to improve both the single player experience, but also the group experience. There may be times when solo play is the activity you're taking part in, but it's not the majority. It's not wise to alter mechanics, to suit limited solo play in an MMO.
I would even say solo, there are ways to counter this. But that would require the imagination part, of my first answer.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
314
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Do you bumping complainers understand that bumbing is a mechanic intendeed to prevent ships to get stucked?
Removing or reducing it would lead only to have ships trapped and unable to move. If removed people could do it on purpose: one or due ships could not simply bumping you away but just trapping you forever in a place.
And what about the criminal flag for bumping? Seriously? So let's say i sit in a battleship on an undock point and i can legally kill any hauler undocking and bumping me? Really do you want this?
|
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
44
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Quintessen wrote:Mag's wrote:Quintessen wrote:Mag's wrote:Bumping is a perfectly legitimate mechanic to use. There are counters, but they require team mates and imagination. I should have been specific to 1v1 counters then. I'm not sure it's wise to alter a mechanic, just to suit solo play. This is after all, an MMO. MMOs have to support solo play because without it, there is no group play. If I'm the first person to log on and no one is around, then if the only thing I can do it group play I'm not going to stick around long enough for someone else to log on. Solo play is the intermediate activity until enough people are on for group play. While I don't make any claim to speak for the people, I for one prefer group play. EVE is a pretty crappy solo game. It's boring. But I tolerate the solo play while hoping someone will pop online so that I can do group play. I even go out and advertise the activity I'm doing in order for strangers to play as well, but I rarely have takers. EVE is sometimes too spread out. EVE needs to improve both the single player experience, but also the group experience. There may be times when solo play is the activity you're taking part in, but it's not the majority. It's not wise to alter mechanics, to suit limited solo play in an MMO. I would even say solo, there are ways to counter this. But that would require the imagination part, of my first answer.
I agree that development time should not focus on group activity, but rather some small percentage of dev time should be used to make sure that the solo game doesn't absolutely stink so people don't log on, realize there's nothing to do and log off. You can make the solo game engaging, but the group game even more engaging that people want to do that.
In terms of solo counters to bumping. There are some mentioned that work for the majority of hulls, but certainly not all. Also I believe that a mechanic and that's mechanic's counter should be about as easy to learn and discover. Bumping is far too easy and the counters not quite so obvious (when talking about very large hulls). |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
44
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Do you bumping complainers understand that bumbing is a mechanic intendeed to prevent ships to get stucked?
Removing or reducing it would lead only to have ships trapped and unable to move. If removed people could do it on purpose: one or due ships could not simply bumping you away but just trapping you forever in a place.
And what about the criminal flag for bumping? Seriously? So let's say i sit in a battleship on an undock point and i can legally kill any hauler undocking and bumping me? Really do you want this?
As I said before if you do an approach command and then actually bumped them you would get flagged. But it requires an active action on the part of the bumper. If people just happen to bump, oh well.
This could also be fixed by making approach not approach to 0, but that would eliminate it entirely most likely or at least make it far too difficult to accomplish. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14300
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Mag's wrote:There may be times when solo play is the activity you're taking part in, but it's not the majority. It's not wise to alter mechanics, to suit limited solo play in an MMO.
I would even say solo, there are ways to counter this. But that would require the imagination part, of my first answer. I agree that development time should not focus on group activity, but rather some small percentage of dev time should be used to make sure that the solo game doesn't absolutely stink so people don't log on, realize there's nothing to do and log off. You can make the solo game engaging, but the group game even more engaging that people want to do that. In terms of solo counters to bumping. There are some mentioned that work for the majority of hulls, but certainly not all. Also I believe that a mechanic and that's mechanic's counter should be about as easy to learn and discover. Bumping is far too easy and the counters not quite so obvious (when talking about very large hulls). Oh I'm not saying no dev time on solo play, but solo participation in bumping has to be rather limited and I disagree with altering it for that.
I agree solo in certain hulls, bumping will be an issue. But wouldn't you say that points more to those hulls needing group play, rather than bumping being the problem? I certainly would.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
44
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Quintessen wrote:Mag's wrote:There may be times when solo play is the activity you're taking part in, but it's not the majority. It's not wise to alter mechanics, to suit limited solo play in an MMO.
I would even say solo, there are ways to counter this. But that would require the imagination part, of my first answer. I agree that development time should not focus on group activity, but rather some small percentage of dev time should be used to make sure that the solo game doesn't absolutely stink so people don't log on, realize there's nothing to do and log off. You can make the solo game engaging, but the group game even more engaging that people want to do that. In terms of solo counters to bumping. There are some mentioned that work for the majority of hulls, but certainly not all. Also I believe that a mechanic and that's mechanic's counter should be about as easy to learn and discover. Bumping is far too easy and the counters not quite so obvious (when talking about very large hulls). Oh I'm not saying no dev time on solo play, but solo participation in bumping has to be rather limited and I disagree with altering it for that. I agree solo in certain hulls, bumping will be an issue. But wouldn't you say that points more to those hulls needing group play, rather than bumping being the problem? I certainly would.
I would definitely agree that group play for some of these hulls would be good, but I have no idea (and in 10 years neither has CCP) on how to make the group play mind-numbingly boring. Well at least jump freighters can make use of a second character for jumps, but frankly I'm not sure how to make industrial hauling a group activity and I don't think that people should have to suffer in the mean time. Frankly I'm okay (though many will not be) with them making the solo parts a bit better and then going the other direction and making it a group activity.
Partly the problem is that in the real world trucking is a solo activity. Truckers talk to each other, but for the most part they don't travel together (any real truckers feel free to counter this -- I'm basing this on popular knowledge). Though most truckers don't have to deal with people blowing them up and taking their stuff.
It's a difficult problem and I don't really have an answer. Frankly I'm not really a victim of bumping but I see its use get reported all the time as a griefing tactic. Maybe it's just against people who are AFK, but I imagine it's still a problem with really large, heavy hulls. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |