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Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 08:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
First post, be gentle.
I have searched forums and used Loadout Browser extensively, but have been unable to find feedback on a similar setup to this.
I am a young character with 1.7M skill points.
My goal with this fit is to
- Not get kited / out-tracked by fast Slashers
- Not get shield tanked to boredom by Merlins
- Be a worthy all-round opponent to most comparable frigates
The reason I specifically mention these is because they are my most frequently encountered opponents and I think that a good way to learn fitting is to tackle one problem at a time.
Here is my proposed tactics:
- Attempt to scram + web, get in close, activate armor repper, load short-range ammo and brawl him down.
- If unable to scram and he kites: Activate armor repper, load long range ammo and snipe him down.
My theory is that my armor tank would be decent (even though it is only single-rep) because of the ship armor rep bonus, and increased repping speed and strength from the two nano rigs.
And here is my proposed fit:
[High-Slots] 125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo) 125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo) 125mm Railgun II (Both long- and short-range ammo in cargo)
[Mid-Slots] 1MN Afterburner II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Stasis Webifier I
[Low-Slots] Small Armor Repairer II Adaptive Nano Plating II Energized Armor Layering Membrane I Damage Control II
[Rigs] Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Nanobot Accelerator I
[Drones] Hobgoblin I * 1
Notes: On my current character, this does not yield great DPS (66 short and 40 long), but lately I have been struggling to get ANY dps at all on my opponents. So I am skilling up Gunnery, Surgical Strike, Rails-specific skills to increase DPS). I could also (to increase DPS):
- Replace Energized Armor Layering Membrane I with Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
- Downgrade web and scram slightly
Above alternative would yield 80 short and 48 long DPS. |
BadAssMcKill
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
133
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Posted - 2013.02.27 08:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'd rather use 75mm rails, good dps and better range than blasters
I'd also use an mwd , use an x5 web , and probably change the layering membrane for a TE or a Mag Stab
There is also of course the dual rep Incursus but that does tend to get kited but hey you can't win em all Starships were meant to fly~ |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
589
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 09:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:I'd rather use 75mm rails, good dps and better range than blasters
I'd also use an mwd , use an x5 web , and probably change the layering membrane for a TE or a Mag Stab
There is also of course the dual rep Incursus but that does tend to get kited but hey you can't win em all
Ignore this. (Except for the dual rep incursus being **** part)
Your fit is probably the best newbie fit i've ever seen.. its almost spot on.
Magstab instead of EANM, Semiconductor rig instead of explosive pump, and collision instead of nano accel. (You can also put a 200mm plate instead of the adaptive but its probably better to wait til you are better at range control) And upgrade your scram web to at least meta 3
Train up your navigation skills since you need to be fast.. Get t2 guns as fast as you can (But continue using antimatter as default ammo)
Rail incursus is one of the best t1 fits in the game. I've killed thrashers, enyos, hookbills, catalysts and more in it. Keep range and blast. Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 09:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thank you for your responses so far, I am blown away. Much appreciated.
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Magstab instead of EANM, Semiconductor rig instead of explosive pump It's funny, because I just did that before I saw your post. Maybe there is hope for me. Will also add the collision accelerator you suggest.
Your suggestions look really promising in Pyfa!
Any reason I should keep using antimatter charges? Right now I am switching between Javelin and Spike continuosly. (is that bad?) |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 10:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:collision instead of nano accel ^ When I did that, armor repair time increased from 4.33s -> 5.1s and damage increased from 79 DPS -> 84 DPS.
Is that an acceptable tradeoff? |
BadAssMcKill
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
133
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Posted - 2013.02.27 10:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:[quote=BadAssMcKill]snip
Dunno man AB rail Incursus practically begs to be kited imo but you have more experience than I do
Also dual rep Incursus is good but not great Starships were meant to fly~ |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 10:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks again for contributing to the discussion.
BadAssMcKill wrote:Dunno man AB rail Incursus practically begs to be kited imo... As an inexperienced player, I am probably missing something. But how would another frigate kite me when I am in a rail Incursus with Spike ammo loaded and an optimal range of 22.4km?
Does it have anything to do with the accuracy falloff still being 5km for the 125mm rails?
That is assuming I miss my chance in scraming him.
Edit: clarity Edit2: accuracy falloff question |
culo duro
Federal Enslavement
28
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Posted - 2013.02.27 10:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Skarp Severasse wrote:Thanks again for contributing to the discussion. BadAssMcKill wrote:Dunno man AB rail Incursus practically begs to be kited imo... As an inexperienced player, I am probably missing something. But how would another frigate kite me when I am in a rail Incursus with Spike ammo loaded and an optimal range of 22.4km? Does it have anything to do with the accuracy falloff still being 5km for the 125mm rails? That is assuming I miss my chance in scraming him. Edit: clarityEdit2: accuracy falloff question
Trust me i fly frigates on occasion. On a serious note, this fit is insane. And if you really wanna fly frigates get an enyo and drool from that output.
Quote:[Incursus, Pvp] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I Adaptive Nano Plating II Small Armor Repairer II
'Saddle' Small Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 200 Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Warrior II x1
Resist: EM 65% Thermal 55% Kinetic 55% Explosive 55% 81 DPS Tank.
212 DPS almost 3km/s
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BadAssMcKill
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
133
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well I don't have too much experience with rails but I feel like your tracking might suffer and anyone you don't land scram/web on will pull range on you
Like I said though Gavriel is the expert here so I'd take his advice
One last thing, frigs are cheap. Don't be afraid to experiment with fits and see what works and what doesn't Starships were meant to fly~ |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 11:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
culo duro wrote:[Incursus, Pvp] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I Adaptive Nano Plating II Small Armor Repairer II
'Saddle' Small Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 200 Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Warrior II x1 ^ Good DPS. Awesome suggestion. It would make it hard to kite me. But won't this fit make me very vulnerable to AB Slashers who stay close? I have troubles locking on to them. See my original goal:
Skarp Severasse wrote:Not get kited / out-tracked by fast Slashers Edit: Actually, flying above fit; any idiot with scram could stay at 3km+ and beat me to death. Am I right? |
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culo duro
Federal Enslavement
28
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Posted - 2013.02.27 11:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Skarp Severasse wrote:culo duro wrote:[Incursus, Pvp] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I Adaptive Nano Plating II Small Armor Repairer II
'Saddle' Small Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 200 Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Warrior II x1 ^ Good DPS. Awesome suggestion. It would make it hard to kite me. But won't this fit make me very vulnerable to AB Slashers who stay close? I have troubles locking on to them. See my original goal: Skarp Severasse wrote:Not get kited / out-tracked by fast Slashers Edit: Actually, flying above fit; any idiot with scram could stay at 4-9km and beat me to death. Am I right?Edit2: Range adjustment to edit1
Personally i got 7-8km range with null ammo. with 156 dps. Also slingshot them away. you'll be able to tank them like a baws. |
Jonas Staal
Army Of US Southern Renegades
1
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Posted - 2013.02.27 11:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
culo duro wrote:Also slingshot them away. you'll be able to tank them like a baws.
Anyone mind explaining the "slingshot" tactic? |
culo duro
Federal Enslavement
28
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Posted - 2013.02.27 11:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote:culo duro wrote:Also slingshot them away. you'll be able to tank them like a baws. Anyone mind explaining the "slingshot" tactic?
Someone keeps you at distance you go towards them, forcing them to go away from you, then you turn around and align to anything that can warp you away. |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 12:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
So this thread has veered off from fitting my 1.7M skill point character. But the discussion is interesting.
culo duro wrote:Personally i got 7-8km range with null ammo. with 156 dps. Care to elaborate how you achieve this? If I set all skills to 5 in Pyfa, I get the following range stats with Light Neutron Blaster II, Null: 3.15km (optimal) + 4.38km (falloff), DPS: 155, volley: 316.
Edit: Formatting |
culo duro
Federal Enslavement
28
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 12:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Skarp Severasse wrote:So this thread has veered off from fitting my 1.7M skill point character. But the discussion is interesting. culo duro wrote:Personally i got 7-8km range with null ammo. with 156 dps. Care to elaborate how you achieve this? If I set all skills to 5 in Pyfa, I get the following range stats with Light Neutron Blaster II, Null: 3.15km (optimal) + 4.38km (falloff), DPS: 155, volley: 316. Edit: Formatting
Because Optimal + Fall off = Top range (You can still graze outside but it's not recommended). |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 12:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
culo duro wrote:Because Optimal + Fall off = Top range (You can still graze outside but it's not recommended). Ok, I didn't know that. However, it seems to me that adding optimal + falloff consistently puts me half way down the slope on the DPS graph in Pyfa. This means 50% DPS. Or is this a curiosity with the graph (is it wrong)? Are you confident that your statement is correct? Experience > Pyfa stats, ofc. |
culo duro
Federal Enslavement
28
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 12:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Skarp Severasse wrote:culo duro wrote:Because Optimal + Fall off = Top range (You can still graze outside but it's not recommended). Ok, I didn't know that. However, it seems to me that adding optimal + falloff consistently puts me half way down the slope on the DPS graph in Pyfa. This means 50% DPS. Or is this a curiosity with the graph (is it wrong)? Are you confident that your statement is correct? Experience > Pyfa stats, ofc.
Falloff does mean less dps indeed. however that slasher which you're fighting is going to be working in his falloff aswell, if he's AB fit. i don't know where you intend to fight but gates means you almost always got an exit from a fight against a scram. and if you're sitting on gates you'll need a Disruptor. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
591
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 14:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Any AB frig struggles with kiters, The rail incursus is one of the very few that can chase some off. OH AB approach, load guardian tungsten (Unless you're TD'd) is very often enough to make kiters panic, try to increase range a bit letting you spin around and **** off. (Unless they have links but then you're ****** no matter what you do)
As for the Accel for collision, its a good trade off because the Accel increases the cap use on your repper while not increasing your sustained tank at all while increasing your ability to alpha through reps.
For other things in no particular order.
Optimal = 100% damage
Optimal + falloff = 50% damage
Optimal + 2x Falloff = 0% damage
Quote:Personally i got 7-8km range with null ammo. with 156 dps.
You don't, you do half that at most.
Now for the MWD comments, you want an AB unless you really know what you're doing, my corp mate is one of the best frig pilots around but even he only has a 75-80% success rate in a mwd blaster incursus.
Tracking is an issue, if you have bad support skills it might be worth to fit a metastasis rig (I flew with one of those right up to the armor changes) However if you do well at keeping your range around 5-7km you should do fine, especially since most of the frigates you have issues tracking (slashers, atrons, executioners) don't have a very robust tank. Its worth mentioning that i have a 100% success rate in that incursus against all of those (Except i died once to a kiting rail atron but that doesn't count! >=[ )
It gets some getting used to and you need to learn what you can and cannot fight.
For now stick to fighting other t1 frigs and avoid only kestrels and condors (They are almost always kitey fitted and will kill you unless you can get on top of them)
When you get more sp and skill you can try fighting all inties, enyos, thrashers and catalysts as well as all the navy faction frigates (You won't win them all but they will cost 2-3 times more than you
Finally don't get stuck in RVB, when you have more sp/expirience go try FW or going pirate
Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 14:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Amazingly insightful comment, Garviel Tarrant. Thank you muchly.
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Tracking is an issue ^ I keep getting killed because of this.
Garviel Tarrant wrote:... it might be worth to fit a metastasis rig ^ Thank you, I will look into that. I do have bad support skills (what are those).
Garviel Tarrant wrote:However if you do well at keeping your range around 5-7km you should do fine, especially since most of the frigates you have issues tracking (slashers, atrons, executioners) don't have a very robust tank. ^ If I am up against a fast Slasher with webifier, I am doomed, right? I guess metastasis rig might keep me in the fight by staying and brawling him down. I do not yet know how to calculate how a metastasis rig would in practicality affect my damage output on a very close Slasher with tracking disruptor. At least I would be able to scram / web him with my fit so it would even things out a bit.
Edit: Inserting a Small Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I increases my rail tracking speed from 0.103 to 0.118. Now to figure out how much more pew that adds to a Slasher with TD. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
591
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 14:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skarp Severasse wrote:Amazingly insightful comment, Garviel Tarrant. Thank you muchly. Garviel Tarrant wrote:Tracking is an issue ^ I keep getting killed because of this. Garviel Tarrant wrote:... it might be worth to fit a metastasis rig ^ Thank you, I will look into that. I do have bad support skills (what are those). Garviel Tarrant wrote:However if you do well at keeping your range around 5-7km you should do fine, especially since most of the frigates you have issues tracking (slashers, atrons, executioners) don't have a very robust tank. ^ If I am up against a fast Slasher with webifier, I am doomed, right? I guess metastasis rig might keep me in the fight by staying and brawling him down. I do not yet know how to calculate how a metastasis rig would in practicality affect my damage output on a very close Slasher with tracking disruptor. At least I would be able to scram / web him with my fit so it would even things out a bit. Edit: Inserting a Small Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I increases my rail tracking speed from 0.103 to 0.118. Now to figure out how much more pew that adds to a Slasher with TD.
I have never lost to a slasher, i have not even been close.
If the slasher gets on top of you some OH your AB and manually fly in the exact opposite he is flying and you should get enough distance to take him down.. You don't want to let anyone sit on you at 1k, if you do you lose.
The incursus is fast enough to pull range on almost any t1 frig with proper piloting. Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |
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Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 14:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:I have never lost to a slasher, i have not even been close.
If the slasher gets on top of you some OH your AB and manually fly in the exact opposite he is flying and you should get enough distance to take him down.. You don't want to let anyone sit on you at 1k, if you do you lose.
The incursus is fast enough to pull range on almost any t1 frig with proper piloting. You just made my day. Off to train Thermodynamics. And Navigation. And Acceleration Control. And Motion Prediction. And Gunnery. And Railgun Spec. And etc ad infinitum. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
593
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 14:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Skarp Severasse wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:I have never lost to a slasher, i have not even been close.
If the slasher gets on top of you some OH your AB and manually fly in the exact opposite he is flying and you should get enough distance to take him down.. You don't want to let anyone sit on you at 1k, if you do you lose.
The incursus is fast enough to pull range on almost any t1 frig with proper piloting. You just made my day. Off to train Thermodynamics. And Navigation. And Acceleration Control. And Motion Prediction. And Gunnery. And Railgun Spec. And etc ad infinitum. All those should be lvl 4 minimum (Train as many support skills as you can to 4 before you start training stuff to 5) Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 15:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:All those should be lvl 4 minimum (Train as many support skills as you can to 4 before you start training stuff to 5) I have just created a 27d "support skills to lvl 4" skill queue. Guess I won't be upgrading to Cruiser-sized ships anytime soon. But I do see the benefit. Being a better pilot > Having a bigger ship. Plus game time becomes more exciting. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
594
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 15:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Skarp Severasse wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:All those should be lvl 4 minimum (Train as many support skills as you can to 4 before you start training stuff to 5) I have just created a 27d "support skills to lvl 4" skill queue. Guess I won't be upgrading to Cruiser-sized ships anytime soon. But I do see the benefit. Being a better pilot > Having a bigger ship. Plus game time becomes more exciting.
Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |
Cute E
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Imho drop the afterburner for PvP. It's simply too slow. One of my favourite Incursus adventures is with a dual rep, blaster afterburner fit and two condors. I couldn't catch any and I burned my AB, so I just sat there tanking them for ~10 minutes until they got bored and left.
A decent Incursus fit needs blasters (don't be afraid to downgrade to Ions), scram, mwd, a small cap injector with navy 400s (one inject when cap is almost empty and you can perma run everything), 2 small reppers and a 200mm plate for buffer. Rest is up to you. Don't be afraid to use PG implants or meta stuff, although a T2 mwd will increase your cap a bit compared to the meta one (has a lower cap penalty);
Also, if you burn your mwd whilst catching them, don't be afraid to put it offline to get you some extra cap and a bit more survivability. |
Cute E
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fits: no implants necessary: [Incursus, pvp dualrep] Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Small Armor Repairer II
Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Small Nanobot Accelerator I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Warrior II x1
With an EG-605: [Incursus, pvp dualrep plate] Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Small Armor Repairer II
Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Small Nanobot Accelerator I Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Warrior II x1
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Cute E
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Oh and as a last note, manage your heat properly. This is a ship that needs Thermodynamics V. |
MashXX
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 19:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cute E wrote:Imho drop the afterburner for PvP. It's simply too slow.
I have to disagree here. When starting off in frigate pvp, I think afterburner, scram, web is the way to go in the mids. MWD can be effective, but it's very situational and for the most part if you get scrammed, you're dead.
The AB/Scram/Web combo allows you to engage quite a wide range of targets and importantly gives you the ability to GTFO when things go wrong, whereas with an MWD brawler you're committed to the fight to the bitter end.
Garviel has given you some great advice, so I'll just echo what he has said about getting into fw/piracy, low sec is a great playground for frigate pvp right now.
Good luck.
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Cute E
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 19:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Good luck escaping gatecamps in your ab fit frigate. By all means, do fit ABs if you want to be Howitzer fodder. |
Skarp Severasse
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 20:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cute E wrote:Good luck escaping gatecamps in your ab fit frigate. By all means, do fit ABs if you want to be Howitzer fodder. Forgive my ignorance, I know this should be basic knowledge, but how does one benefit having MWD rather than AB when getting camped? I mean, if someone scrams you, you'll go slower than if someone webs your AB. |
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