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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.13 11:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Afternoon S&M.
I'm in need of a(nother) new mission ship. I started off with a CNR and as my skills went up so I went more gank than tank, took it to the point where about the only thing I could do was swap a DCU out for a Signal Amplifier.
From there I grabbed a Nightmare since I was mostly in Sansha/Blood Raider territory and about all that's left there is to bite the bullet and grab some HG Crystals and ditch the SBA for another TC and drop one of the 2 TEs for a 4th Heat Sink.
So as of right now I have my Sansha/Blood ship and my general purpose ship but I want to add to that. Golem would allow for face raping Angels using 3 TPs and no speed mod or possibly both if I grab the HG Crystals first.
Tengu would be for high small things missions with what is likely a pretty cookie cutter small SB HM setup. Both are about the same time away training wise. Cruiser V, Strat cruiser bits + T2 HM for the Tengu, AWU V, Marauders + T2 torps for the Golem.
I'm quite happy to pimp things up a bit so what are the comments/suggested fits? |
Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
70
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Posted - 2011.10.13 12:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sounds like you've more or less got things figured out. Nightmares can fit 4 heat sinks, 1 TE, and 3 TCs, but that's about the limit for how much gank you can get on that platform.
You might consider investing in a Machariel or Vargur. They'd fill the explosive niche that your current ship selection seems to lack. Worlds Collide and Angels Extravaganza are great if you've got the appropriate ship for them. |
Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
8
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Posted - 2011.10.13 13:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you are only going to get one ship, and you run the occasional Gurista mission, get a Tengu. Build it with the Dissolution Sequencer subsystem and stick a pair of gravimetric ECCMs on it and you'll be well over 100 sensor strength. I ran The Assault two days ago without being jammed, which is always nice. |
Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.13 13:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Mach is further down the line, the Golem and CNR are both damage type indifferent so can easily deal the explo.
I'm currently leaning towards a Golem although getting the 3 TPs, AB and Cap Injector on does take some fiddling. The fit I'm currently considering is as follows:
[Golem, Gollum (use with HG Crystals)]
Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Domination Target Painter Domination Target Painter Domination Target Painter Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Core A-Type 100MN Afterburner
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Vizan's Modified Reactor Control Unit
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
[/end]
It's cap stable with the AB, invul and TPs running and leaves enough juice for around 9 cycles of the Booster which would deliver around 16k shield HP (10.3k shield base). So the Cap Injector looks a little unnecessary, but what to swap it out for? Or leave it as insurance? |
stoicfaux
282
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Posted - 2011.10.13 13:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vargur is better than the Golem against Angels. The Golem tends to lose a lot of time due to juggling TPs, reloading often, limited range, volley counting, and wasted overkill.
For example, AE4: 5 TP Golem: 34m 30s. (29:50 mission time + 4:40 travel time) Vargur: 28m 29s. (24:45 mission time + 3:44 travel time) Tengu: 37m:00s. (33:45 mission time + 3:15 travel time)
If you're *not* cherry picking missions and are killing everything then I would recommend Mach/Vargur followed by Golem and then Tengu. If you are cherry picking missions and are blitzing then Mach or Vargur or Tengu, and forget the Golem entirely.
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.13 13:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gavin DeVries wrote:If you are only going to get one ship, and you run the occasional Gurista mission, get a Tengu. Build it with the Dissolution Sequencer subsystem and stick a pair of gravimetric ECCMs on it and you'll be well over 100 sensor strength. I ran The Assault two days ago without being jammed, which is always nice.
The Tengu seems to lack the raw punch for taking on the larger rats, i've also run about as many Gurista missions as I care for. I was considering the Tengu for those missions like Buzz Kill and Massive Attack or even Smuggler Interception and maybe Infiltrated Outposts.
Currently I'm thinking that there're less of these missions compared with the benefit of a close range brawler for Angel or even Serpentis missions.
stoicfaux wrote:Vargur is better than the Golem against Angels. The Golem tends to lose a lot time due to juggling TPs, reloading often, limited range, volley counting, and wasted overkill.
For example, AE4: 5 TP Golem: 34m 30s. (29:50 mission time + 4:40 travel time) Vargur: 28m 29s. (24:45 mission time + 3:44 travel time) Tengu: 37m:00s. (33:45 mission time + 3:15 travel time)
If you're *not* cherry picking missions and are killing everything then I would recommend Mach/Vargur followed by Golem and then Tengu. If you are cherry picking missions and are blitzing then Mach or Vargur or Tengu, and forget the Golem entirely.
I'm aiming more to build a nice range of gank ships so I just hop into the most appropriate and go. So more a case of picking the ship to match the mission.
My main does have a PVE Mach and they are very nice but it's something to do later on this character given the horrendous nature of gaining T2 large projectiles, although I suppose I could go the same way as I went with the Nightmare and just take large projectiles 5 and use faction guns. |
stoicfaux
282
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Posted - 2011.10.13 14:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote:Afternoon S&M.
Tengu would be for high small things missions with what is likely a pretty cookie cutter small SB HM setup. Both are about the same time away training wise. Cruiser V, Strat cruiser bits + T2 HM for the Tengu, AWU V, Marauders + T2 torps for the Golem.
The Golem pretty much requires Missile Bombardment V and Missile Projection to V in order to get your T1 torps to reliably hit at 40km and to hit targets at 60km with Javelins. It's another chunk of training time to factor in.
Here's the fit I used for my Golem, it won't do the AE bonus, but will work for everything else.
[Golem, Level 4] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Explosion Dampening Field II Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Salvager II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
2x Bay Thruster rigs provide almost nearly the same range (1km difference or so) of a pair of Fuel + Thruster rigs. This has the advantage of keeping the torp flight time down to 9 seconds which helps with volley counting and TPcycles.
Being nearly cap stable with the shield booster is one less distraction while you're juggling TPs, locking wrecks, counting volleys, and tractoring/salvaging/looting.
Implants - I recommend the following: ZMT2000 +5% damage ZML1000 +5% missile velocity ZMS1000 +5% missile explosion velocity ZMM1000 or Whelan Machorin's Ballistic Smartlink - 5% missile RoF
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
3
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Posted - 2011.10.13 14:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sure Tengu. |
Lugalzagezi666
16
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Posted - 2011.10.13 14:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
If you want ship with killspeed comparable to nightmare, train for machariel. Tengu can blitz some missions faster, golem will have decent overall performance in short range missions, but neither are as good as nightmare or mach. You dont need t2 guns for mach and it will be still faster in most missions btw. Add vargur for missions, where you need to loot tags, add some superfast ship to blitz recon and mission with quafe in can, maybe tengu for wc... and you are ok.
Ps : Both golem and tengu are extremely annoying to fly, because you have to count volleys and/or use target painters. |
luvmehard
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.13 14:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote: I'm aiming more to build a nice range of gank ships so I just hop into the most appropriate and go. So more a case of picking the ship to match the mission.
I have a Golem in Caldari space, Vargur in Minmatar space, Paladin in Ammatar and a Navy Raven in Gallente space. Oh, and Firetail to buzz between them.
But lately the most fun I had running missions is a T2 fit vanilla Apoc against Bloods in Kador, deliberately messing up triggers and overheating with crap Thermodynamics skills. Try it, it's fun! |
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Omniwing
Omnicorps
0
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Posted - 2011.10.13 15:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is such a tired argument. I admit, I didn't even read a single post. The bottom line is they're about equal on average, for some missions one is better than the other, and the Tengu is much easier to train for. Thats about it.
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.13 15:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Omniwing wrote:This is such a tired argument. I admit, I didn't even read a single post. The bottom line is they're about equal on average, for some missions one is better than the other, and the Tengu is much easier to train for. Thats about it.
I haven't bothered reading your reply but I'm sure that it was both insightful and relevant to the thread. Thank you for posting.
p.s. You're an idiot.
@Stoicfaux: The idea on using duplicate rigs to try and match flight time to TP duration is not something I had considered but is something I found a little annoying when using dual TPs with Fury Cruises. Will have to look into that.
Do you believe levering an AB onto your fit would aid completion times for Angel missions (not just AE4) to any great degree? Whilst the fit I am considering is significantly more expensive than the one you are using it does greatly suffer from the laws of diminishing returns. All that isk just for an AB? I'd point out that I'm not particularly bothered by achieving uber ISK/Hr but more something that is engaging to fly: It's also the reason I do not worry about juggling cap, counting volleys and so on.
Primary income is from manufacture and trade, missions are simply a way to relax by exploding face. I can always break out a miner if I really want to be lazy.
@luvmehard: You, sir, appear to have a similar outlook to myself. I went with "Full Pocket Aggro" for a reason, I should probably get some thermodynamics trained at some point. For fun missions i've resorted to a top tier deadspace fit wolf for level 2s. The final part of Human Cattle was certainly....... interesting, to begin with. |
stoicfaux
282
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Posted - 2011.10.13 17:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote: Do you believe levering an AB onto your fit would aid completion times for Angel missions (not just AE4) to any great degree? Whilst the fit I am considering is significantly more expensive than the one you are using it does greatly suffer from the laws of diminishing returns. All that isk just for an AB? I'd point out that I'm not particularly bothered by achieving uber ISK/Hr but more something that is engaging to fly: It's also the reason I do not worry about juggling cap, counting volleys and so on.
IME, not really. Normally I get to the next gate by the time everything is dead. Obviously, there are missions where you don't need the tank or where you have to to travel awhile to the next gate and an AB would be a luxury or necessity.
Quote:Primary income is from manufacture and trade, missions are simply a way to relax by exploding face. I can always break out a miner if I really want to be lazy. If you want to explode face with excitement and minimal tank, use a 5 TP Golem: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/42705-Golem-Angel-Screams.html
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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luvmehard
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote:For fun missions i've resorted to a top tier deadspace fit wolf for level 2s. The final part of Human Cattle was certainly....... interesting, to begin with.
Try lvl4's in a faction fitted Daredevil...
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AureoLion
Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
11
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Posted - 2011.10.15 14:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
that 5x tp golem is woot. |
stoicfaux
286
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Posted - 2011.10.15 16:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
AureoLion wrote:that 5x tp golem is woot.
Meh. I tried a cheaper version with 5xPWNAGE TPs. AE4 in 34:30 in a Golem with 5% implants versus in 28:29 in a Vargur with no relevant implants. Golem requires too much ammo switching/reloading, and having to juggle TPs, wait on TPs (even with 5!,) count volleys, and loot/salvage with a limited set of hotkeys introduced more inefficiencies.
Also, the Golem's two slot tank makes some missions unnecessarily problematic. (Try blitzing Buzz Kill with a 5TP Golem...)
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Texty
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.17 19:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Vargur is better than the Golem against Angels. The Golem tends to lose a lot of time due to juggling TPs, reloading often, limited range, volley counting, and wasted overkill.
For example, AE4: 5 TP Golem: 34m 30s. (29:50 mission time + 4:40 travel time) Vargur: 28m 29s. (24:45 mission time + 3:44 travel time) Tengu: 37m:00s. (33:45 mission time + 3:15 travel time)
If you're *not* cherry picking missions and are killing everything then I would recommend Mach/Vargur followed by Golem and then Tengu. If you are cherry picking missions and are blitzing then Mach or Vargur or Tengu, and forget the Golem entirely.
Wow Do these completion times include the bonus room? I'm relatively new to LV4 missions and it takes me more than 1 hour just to finish the first 5 rooms |
Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
8
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Posted - 2011.10.17 19:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Texty wrote:Wow Do these completion times include the bonus room? I'm relatively new to LV4 missions and it takes me more than 1 hour just to finish the first 5 rooms I'm not certain, but I suspect it's just the time from mission start to killing Tiogo (the completion trigger). I can't fly a Vargu just yet, and Stoic has better implants than I do (I use 3% instead of 5%), but that's close to my times in the Golem or Tengu. Just over 30 minutes for the Golem and 35:30 for the Tengu is the best I've done. The Tengu time might be slightly skewed, as in that boat I usually kill the elite frigates and spider drones before engaging Tiogo, while the Golem I kill him using Javelins and only kill frigates if I've been scrambled. |
Lugalzagezi666
18
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Posted - 2011.10.17 20:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think the times are without bonus, 24 mins is about the same time i had with my vargur. With mwd mach and faction ammo i managed complete it in 18 mins, with nightmare it was between 30-33 mins and with tengu 35+.
When i tried it in 3 faction tp golem - with max skilled and implanted char except torp spec 5, with hg crystals (i even loged in my alt to provide 5 link boosting tengu with 1 inf warfare link) - and completion time was worse than tach nightmare... i just sold the golem.
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Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
3
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Posted - 2011.10.17 21:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
AE - 16 min blitz in Machariel. From first to last shot, no sentry drones. T1 ammo. |
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