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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
952
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 04:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
The amount of damage a spy can inflict is disproportional to the amount of defense offered. No alliance in EVE is immune to this threat, as a matter of fact the poster child for spying "Awox" is a verb to even the newest players of EVE learn.
Awoxing is basically the act of placing a member within a hostile alliance and betraying that alliance to tackle and cyno hell down upon your unsuspecting alliance mates. This term originates from an actual player named "Awox"
So what the hell do we do about it?
In EVE our toolbox is empty, so our real power comes from "outside" and this right here folks is where the line is crossed.
+ Making friends via 3rd party activities (Guilds, clans, etc) + Using facebook information to present yourself as a former classmate. (Dale from the Latin Club) + Selling yourself as a potential business partner who could land you a big sale! (Toyota Dealership in Detroit Michican) + Setting up a meet IRL (2012 EVE Vegas)
All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".
So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.
"Golly Mr. Gerard, you sure have given us a lot to think about."
But wait there's more!
I have been given the dubious honor of revealing a awoxer! =) This bit of information may not be relevant to most of you but should be a *popcorn* event for those who are.
Kaylee Jakuard the "Industry Captain" of Imperial Guardians, and member of the Tribal Band alliance, is actually an informant for the alliance Black Legion. One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
37
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 04:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:The amount of damage a spy can inflict is disproportional to the amount of defense offered. No alliance in EVE is immune to this threat, as a matter of fact the poster child for spying "Awox" is a verb to even the newest players of EVE learn.
Awoxing is basically the act of placing a member within a hostile alliance and betraying that alliance to tackle and cyno hell down upon your unsuspecting alliance mates. This term originates from an actual player named "Awox"
So what the hell do we do about it?
In EVE our toolbox is empty, so our real power comes from "outside" and this right here folks is where the line is crossed.
+ Making friends via 3rd party activities (Guilds, clans, etc) + Using facebook information to present yourself as a former classmate. (Dale from the Latin Club) + Selling yourself as a potential business partner who could land you a big sale! (Toyota Dealership in Detroit Michican) + Setting up a meet IRL (2012 EVE Vegas)
All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".
So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.
"Golly Mr. Gerard, you sure have given us a lot to think about."
But wait there's more!
I have been given the dubious honor of revealing a awoxer! =) This bit of information may not be relevant to most of you but should be a *popcorn* event for those who are.
Kaylee Jakuard the "Industry Captain" of Imperial Guardians, and member of the Tribal Band alliance, is actually an informant for the alliance Black Legion.
Theyre called api sheets. You're welcome.
Also if you must, the issue you brought up seemed to be about cynoing in hot drops, which is the ever-cried of hot drop issue. (also known as instant teleportation of extremely numerous ships past any defenses to a particular target). Which, is actually a fun part of eve.
Api sheets... use them
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1007
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Posted - 2013.03.02 05:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
API is hopeful thinking. Purchase a new character, play the game for a few months with it, insert into unsuspecting corp. API defeated. HTFU!...for the children! |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation
670
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 05:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
That was a lot of words for calling out someone as an awoxer without any links as evidence. I'm Denzel Washington. |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
678
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Posted - 2013.03.02 05:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you have a small fleet of very expensive ships, you're opening yourself up for a awoxing hotdrop. Small fleets should be relatively inexpensive to fly and replace. The larger the fleet, the more expensive ships you're ok with flying.
There's always a solution to EVERY problem. You may not like the available solutions, but they're available. Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Naes Mlahrend
KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
63
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Posted - 2013.03.02 05:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yay, we're starting a rumor! |
S'Way
Bitter Vets
452
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 05:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:API is hopeful thinking. Purchase a new character, play the game for a few months with it, insert into unsuspecting corp. API defeated. Indeed the API is a joke really - sure it might catch out the really lazy or not so bright ones, but no competent corp thief / awoxer / spy that knows what they're doing would get caught out by an API.
Alternate accounts funded by plex and the character bazaar give an easy way to gain any character skill set needed for whatever plan they have. You can lower the risk of it by not recruiting any character that's been purchased, but if someone is determined and patient enough they'll manage it regardless.
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Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
39
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Posted - 2013.03.02 05:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.
What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.
OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence |
BadAssMcKill
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
147
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 05:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
No Starships were meant to fly~ |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
71
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 06:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iminent Penance wrote:Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.
What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.
OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence
would never work with me. if they wanna travel to nz then bully for them.
if they do live in nz and with the travel about 700-900km even more bully for them. |
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Silvara Nocturn
Nocturn Industries
1
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Posted - 2013.03.02 06:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
What tools do you require? I can't think of any single thing that could stop a competent spy. |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
101
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 06:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:Iminent Penance wrote:Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.
What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.
OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence would never work with me. if they wanna travel to nz then bully for them. if they do live in nz and with the travel about 700-900km even more bully for them.
I would travel to half moon bay if it meant sweet sweet tears. That means both the cook and the foveaux straits.
Onto the topic at hand
Awoxing is pretty simple to minimize, nothing will stop someone who is completely psyops grade determined to get you awoxed though (see BOB). basics are starting an ingame convo with them, using eve voice with them, check their employment history, ask for a temp full api key - and then actually look at it (seriously guys), then as long as you don't have any suspicions from that you can go ahead and invite them into a holding corporation or secondary corporation if you do not run an alliance. The candidate should be within that holding/secondary for about three months or so then bring them into a main corporation but don't dish out any roles. Any reimbursement program you run should require them to post a killmail to claim back and also minimize what is available to be reimbursed (such as only reimburse in war time, only reimburse set ships, only T1 meta 1 is available for reimbursement, etc, etc). Note, as I typed, a determined individual will be able to get through any gauntlet you throw - the key thing to do is decentralization so that you can minimize and recover from any awox.
You can ask for permanent apis if you are paranoid |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3429
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 06:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Super spikinator wrote:Awoxing is pretty simple to minimize, nothing will stop someone who is completely psyops grade determined to get you awoxed though (see BOB). basics are starting an ingame convo with them, using eve voice with them, check their employment history, ask for a temp full api key - and then actually look at it (seriously guys), then as long as you don't have any suspicions from that you can go ahead and invite them into a holding corporation or secondary corporation if you do not run an alliance. The candidate should be within that holding/secondary for about three months or so then bring them into a main corporation but don't dish out any roles. Any reimbursement program you run should require them to post a killmail to claim back and also minimize what is available to be reimbursed (such as only reimburse in war time, only reimburse set ships, only T1 meta 1 is available for reimbursement, etc, etc). Note, as I typed, a determined individual will be able to get through any gauntlet you throw - the key thing to do is decentralization so that you can minimize and recover from any awox.
You can ask for permanent apis if you are paranoid I bet someone read this and went "challenge accepted". Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
72
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 07:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Super spikinator wrote:bufnitza calatoare wrote:Iminent Penance wrote:Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.
What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.
OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence would never work with me. if they wanna travel to nz then bully for them. if they do live in nz and with the travel about 700-900km even more bully for them. I would travel to half moon bay if it meant sweet sweet tears. That means both the cook and the foveaux straits. Onto the topic at hand Awoxing is pretty simple to minimize, nothing will stop someone who is completely psyops grade determined to get you awoxed though (see BOB). basics are starting an ingame convo with them, using eve voice with them, check their employment history, ask for a temp full api key - and then actually look at it (seriously guys), then as long as you don't have any suspicions from that you can go ahead and invite them into a holding corporation or secondary corporation if you do not run an alliance. The candidate should be within that holding/secondary for about three months or so then bring them into a main corporation but don't dish out any roles. Any reimbursement program you run should require them to post a killmail to claim back and also minimize what is available to be reimbursed (such as only reimburse in war time, only reimburse set ships, only T1 meta 1 is available for reimbursement, etc, etc). Note, as I typed, a determined individual will be able to get through any gauntlet you throw - the key thing to do is decentralization so that you can minimize and recover from any awox. You can ask for permanent apis if you are paranoid
lol funny for the travelling ,
another thing one could ask for is... a screen shot of the channels on has access to.. not that it would help overly.
for me signs of not beign on comms.. acting suspects IE logged in for hours and not doing anything etc.
I my self was put on the awoxers list after a dumbass nullbear decided that I was trouble.. they tried to threaten me to get booted out. told them to watch out for karma... 3 months later a awoxer infiltrated them, and they got booted from alliance.. karma I love you :P |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3429
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 07:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:I my self was put on the awoxers list after a dumbass nullbear decided that I was trouble.. they tried to threaten me to get booted out. told them to watch out for karma... 3 months later a awoxer infiltrated them, and they got booted from alliance.. karma I love you :P Yeah.
That awoxer was actually your alt, wasn't it. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
277
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 07:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
I recommend going on a witch hunt and don't stop until your organization collapses under the internal strife.
Baring that, I suppose you could do what most do... always operate as if a spy is actively listening to you and aside from that, don't let it bother you. It's eve, your going to have these problems.
API sheet can help, but any spy worth his ilk will probably be using a dedicated account. |
Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
42
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 07:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:Iminent Penance wrote:Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.
What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.
OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence would never work with me. if they wanna travel to nz then bully for them. if they do live in nz and with the travel about 700-900km even more bully for them.
"them meet you in person" not "go find them yourself" why the hell would YOU travel to THEM? -.- |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
72
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 08:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:bufnitza calatoare wrote:I my self was put on the awoxers list after a dumbass nullbear decided that I was trouble.. they tried to threaten me to get booted out. told them to watch out for karma... 3 months later a awoxer infiltrated them, and they got booted from alliance.. karma I love you :P Yeah. That awoxer was actually your alt, wasn't it.
I gave serious consideration to doing that but decided.. not to play the QQ game :) wasn't worth the isk to buy a new char etc. |
Whitehound
1070
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 08:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Posting in a stealth "Black Legion" recruitment thread.
"+1" to whoever had the idea to hire Tom for their advertisement. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
281
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:The amount of damage a spy can inflict is disproportional to the amount of defense offered. No alliance in EVE is immune to this threat, as a matter of fact the poster child for spying "Awox" is a verb to even the newest players of EVE learn.
Awoxing is basically the act of placing a member within a hostile alliance and betraying that alliance to tackle and cyno hell down upon your unsuspecting alliance mates. This term originates from an actual player named "Awox"
So what the hell do we do about it?
In EVE our toolbox is empty, so our real power comes from "outside" and this right here folks is where the line is crossed.
+ Making friends via 3rd party activities (Guilds, clans, etc) + Using facebook information to present yourself as a former classmate. (Dale from the Latin Club) + Selling yourself as a potential business partner who could land you a big sale! (Toyota Dealership in Detroit Michican) + Setting up a meet IRL (2012 EVE Vegas)
All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".
So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.
"Golly Mr. Gerard, you sure have given us a lot to think about."
But wait there's more!
I have been given the dubious honor of revealing a awoxer! =) This bit of information may not be relevant to most of you but should be a *popcorn* event for those who are.
Kaylee Jakuard the "Industry Captain" of Imperial Guardians, and member of the Tribal Band alliance, is actually an informant for the alliance Black Legion.
Simple solution, don't let anyone in your corp unless you know them in real life. This way if they awox you, you can just go over to their house and kick their ass :)
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Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1328
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote: So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.
Join an NPC corporation or create your own 1-man corp and suddenly awoxing is not a problem. Otherwise no. Everything has risk. Including corp ownership. The bigger the corp, the greater the risk. Be careful as to who you let in your corp, be especially careful as to who you give roles to, and for GOD'S SAKE WHEN WILL YOU LEARN NOT TO LEAVE CAPITAL SHIPS FLOATING IN A POS BUBBLE HOW STUPID ARE YOU PEOPLE?
Corps that get "awoxed" deserve to be awoxed in my opinion. Alliances are more complicated because usually the victims have nothing to do with the recruitment process but still if you don't reset the awoxer's corp immediately thats your probelm.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4092
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:if you don't reset the awoxer's corp immediately thats your probelm.
Bit overkill, isn't it? Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1328
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Bit overkill, isn't it?
You play EVE and you're worried about overkill?
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4095
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well when it comes to my alliance I'd hope the leadership is more sensible than to kick an entire corp (even if temporarily) merely because one of their members turned out to be an awoxer. I'm pretty sure they do, but I don't remember the last time we actually had an awoxer so I can't say for certain. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
811
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 13:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Where's the part about how you actually catch the AWOXer?
There's talk about how people get into corps and what they do there, but little evidence on how to verify someone as such a player?
You're taking this space ships game way too seriously. Lay down for a bit
--- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |
Whitehound
1072
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 13:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Spurty wrote:You're taking this space ships game way too seriously. Lay down for a bit You have not met Tom yet. He is only getting up. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1653
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 13:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".
Much like your posting. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1011
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 13:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Where's the part about how you actually catch the AWOXer?
There's talk about how people get into corps and what they do there, but little evidence on how to verify someone as such a player?
You're taking this space ships game way too seriously. Lay down for a bit
The only way to catch an awoxer is to read some tea leaves, follow your gut instinct or wait for him to make a mistake.
HTFU!...for the children! |
Whitehound
1072
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 13:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:The only way to catch an awoxer is to read some tea leaves, follow your gut instinct or wait for him to make a mistake. The term "catch" is rather misleading. Once you find an awoxer will there be nothing left to catch, because your stuff will be in his hangar and therefore unreachable. Prevention is still the best method. Limit your assets to what is essential, do not stock or hoard stuff you do not need. Run your industry like a just-in-time production. Divide all access, have separate corporations and never give anyone full access. I could just say "do not trust anybody", but it is not about trust but really about being smart. One can trust others and still be smart about how one operates. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Sentamon
708
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 13:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Oh overpowered alliances and your "problems".
Let the tears flow. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
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