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nubile slave
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.03.02 23:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Due to excessive boredom i decided to run a couple level 4's last night. Entered the room in my Nightmare, Sansha, lots of Sentries, couple BS, couple cruisers, couple frigs, all at about 20k. Frigs aggro immediately and I only manage to kill one before they get in close. No problem, i'll drop drones.... Drop 5 Valk 2's, Drone durability 5. Frigs are 6k away, agress one of them, see instant damage on a drone, recall them...and lose one on the way back...... So, I let the flies buzz, instapop the cruisers, kill the sentries and BS. I again drop my 4 remaining drones. One is killed instantly, before I can order them to redock. Now I know it's been a long time since I've done missions, but the NPC's now instalock your drones? The three frigs never stopped firing on me, never lost aggro on them. Yet they were able to kill a drone within five seconds of being released?
The first time, I assumed i simply didn't see one of the NPC's refocus fire, but I didn't see the frigs refocus fire, so, NPC's will now fire on multiple targets at the same time?
Glad I don't have to do missions to earn a living.....
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Epsilon Bathana
EPS Kings
13
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Posted - 2013.03.02 23:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Since mission NPCs got reconfigured to use the sleeper AI, drones have been dropping like flies. Contributing factors:
- The excessive hate of the NPCs (at some time NPC BSs even favoured your scout drones above your own BS )
- The limited resists (also for T2 drones)
- The short NPC lock on drones time
- NPCs not unlocking from drones returned to bay (and drones taking damage the second they are relaunched
and this all under the banner of CCP fighting drone boats missioning AFK |
Whitehound
1085
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Posted - 2013.03.02 23:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP improved the NPC AI for the normal mission NPCs. It is now much more like sleeper and Sanshas.
Frigates will attack light drones and larger. Cruisers and elite frigates will attack medium drones and larger. BSs and elite cruisers will attack heavy and sentry drones. I am not sure what BCs do. It is either medium or heavy drones that they attack. Somebody else might know.
The new NPCs also go by threat level. So best is to put DPS out and make your ship the biggest threat and let your drones not wander off too far. If you can then always try to kill the small NPCs before the larger ones to increase the survivability of your drones.
Once you get the hang of it will you only occasionally lose a light drone every 5 to 10 missions, which is acceptable (imo), and one can probably get better than this. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
183
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Posted - 2013.03.03 00:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wasn't there an ecm module that you could run to keep aggro. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Whitehound
1086
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Posted - 2013.03.03 00:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Wasn't there an ecm module that you could run to keep aggro? Some players mentioned the use of ECM Burst as method for keeping the aggro on the ship, but this is pretty risky for high-sec as this will get CONCORD on you when someone sneaks into your missions. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
184
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 00:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Wasn't there an ecm module that you could run to keep aggro? Some players mentioned the use of ECM Burst as a method for keeping the aggro on the ship, but this is pretty risky for high-sec as this will get CONCORD on you when someone sneaks into your missions.
Hrm... Wasn't there a targeted one though that avoids the concordokken? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Whitehound
1086
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 00:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Whitehound wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Wasn't there an ecm module that you could run to keep aggro? Some players mentioned the use of ECM Burst as a method for keeping the aggro on the ship, but this is pretty risky for high-sec as this will get CONCORD on you when someone sneaks into your missions. Hrm... Wasn't there a targeted one though that avoids the concordokken? I have only read about the use of ECM Burst, but there are the normal ECM modules and the Target Spectrum Breaker. I doubt a single ECM module will be good enough to get all the aggro and to keep it, and the Target Spectrum Breaker breaks your own locks, too, and cripples your lock speed and uses a lot of cap. I doubt it is useful in missions. I actually once tried it and it caused my drones to get more aggro, probably because it break the aggros and allows NPCs to pick a new target.
I do not think it is necessary though. One just needs to keep the drones close and only use them for what is actually necessary, like killing the tacklers that are in close range. Then dealing a lot of damage to the bigger ships will let one keep the aggro.
Most times when a drone dies is when there are multiple groups in a mission pocket and not all have begun to aggro one. Then these other groups will go for one's drones and one needs to be careful and pull them back fast.
Sentry drones are then almost immune and can take a lot of hits before it gets critical. The easy times are over though. It is now more challenging to do missions and it is fun. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
365
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 00:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Missions are simple, very simple, with a Large Micro Jump Drive on your drone boat along with sentries. Easier than even before the NPC AI changes. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1267
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 00:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
nubile slave wrote: Drop 5 Valk 2's, Drone durability 5.
There's your problem right there. Don't use mediums to kill frigs. It's slower and frigs will take them down really quickly. Also they're too slow to get back to your ship if they're taking fire. Use lights and the problem you are describing is no longer a problem. That way you can kill the frigs even with all the other ships on grid because only NPC frigs and elite cruisers will target light drones now.
Your welcome.
/thread "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Sarmatiko
935
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 00:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Missions are simple, very simple, with a Large Micro Jump Drive on your drone boat along with sentries. Easier than even before the NPC AI changes. This. The true indicator that CCP hates drone users will show up if they ban Large Micro Jump Drive on missions. Until then missions are easy. Still no reason to train Medium and Heavy drones though, because only light and sentries are usable in PVE.
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Edah Puss
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2013.03.03 23:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Confirming that I have had absolutely no issues with LVL4's in my tengu.
They are just as easy and quick as before.
Not sure why anyone would run a LVl4 in anything but a Tengu, but there you go...
Nothing to see here, move along. |
ashley Eoner
173
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Posted - 2013.03.03 23:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
nubile slave wrote:Due to excessive boredom i decided to run a couple level 4's last night. Entered the room in my Nightmare, Sansha, lots of Sentries, couple BS, couple cruisers, couple frigs, all at about 20k. Frigs aggro immediately and I only manage to kill one before they get in close. No problem, i'll drop drones.... Drop 5 Valk 2's, Drone durability 5. Frigs are 6k away, agress one of them, see instant damage on a drone, recall them...and lose one on the way back...... So, I let the flies buzz, instapop the cruisers, kill the sentries and BS. I again drop my 4 remaining drones. One is killed instantly, before I can order them to redock. Now I know it's been a long time since I've done missions, but the NPC's now instalock your drones? The three frigs never stopped firing on me, never lost aggro on them. Yet they were able to kill a drone within five seconds of being released? The first time, I assumed i simply didn't see one of the NPC's refocus fire, but I didn't see the frigs refocus fire, so, NPC's will now fire on multiple targets at the same time? Glad I don't have to do missions to earn a living..... Some of the missions have gotten really stupid. The second room in world's collide will absolutely decimate your drones no matter what you do. I'm a person that uses target painters, remote rep, and other ewar but it doesn't matter the drones will still get nearly instant targeted when launched.
Fortunately most of the level four missions aren't ridiculous like this and you can keep threat off the drones fairly easily with just a target painter.
As others have said don't even bother with medium drones. They get instagibbed regardless of what you do. Even heavy drones are iffy if you let them get farther then 10km away. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1661
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 03:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
nubile slave wrote:....... So, I let the flies buzz, ........
That was also a mistake. The NPCs have a timer, they only switch aggro every so often. If you recall and redeploy right away you can get some kills in before that swap back to the drones. Also, use Warriors. They get home so much faster. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
870
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 03:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Missions are simple, very simple, with a Large Micro Jump Drive on your drone boat along with sentries. Easier than even before the NPC AI changes.
How does this work exactly? "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1661
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 04:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Missions are simple, very simple, with a Large Micro Jump Drive on your drone boat along with sentries. Easier than even before the NPC AI changes. How does this work exactly? Micro jump away from the frigs, drop sentries and kill them as they fly over to you. If they somehow get under your sentries, repeat. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
148
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Posted - 2013.03.04 04:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Missions are simple, very simple, with a Large Micro Jump Drive on your drone boat along with sentries. Easier than even before the NPC AI changes. How does this work exactly? Micro jump away from the frigs, drop sentries and kill them as they fly over to you. If they somehow get under your sentries, repeat.
Just don't forget to recall your sentries before MJDing... |
Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
19
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Posted - 2013.03.04 08:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
You could try not soloing lvl 4s and use a small gang of people instead. |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
283
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Posted - 2013.03.04 08:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Solution: fit a BS for kiting with a MWD and longrange turrets/missiles.
- IT'S THAT SIMPLE - |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1066
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 09:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Elite frigates will attack light drones and larger. Frigates and cruisers will attack medium drones and larger. Battleships will attack heavy and sentry drones.
Which is all lies, by the way.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Angelique Duchemin
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
70
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Posted - 2013.03.04 09:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Makes sense I guess. Drones are balanced to be a DPS addition that comes with the penalty in form of the risk of having them destroyed. Those drone resilience skills where not for decoration but for years the drones could run rampant against NPCs without the NPCs being allowed to engage them properly.
The NPCs who where already pretty dumb to begin with where in fact dumbed down further for not being able to call drones on what they are. Glass cannons.
I support this new AI. Does anyone know a good website to upload loudouts too that doesn't try to sell me plexes in between every line? |
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Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
85
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Posted - 2013.03.04 10:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
I was not on grid and therefore never saw this. Hyperfleet Industries is selectivly recruiting. Enquire today. Killboard
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Signal11th
The Retirement Club
911
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 11:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Whisperen wrote:You could try not soloing lvl 4s and use a small gang of people instead.
Why? Just because it's an MMO doesn't mean you have to be social 100% of the time. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
Lucia Severasse
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.04 11:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
im sure i heard someone mention target painters before will keep agro on the ship aswell as its a electronic warfare module.. but ive not tested it myself. |
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
580
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 13:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Missions are simple, very simple, with a Large Micro Jump Drive on your drone boat along with sentries. Easier than even before the NPC AI changes. it's quite funny that people constantly say this on forums and still there is people who don't know.... |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
67
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Posted - 2013.03.04 14:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
nubile slave wrote: ... Now I know it's been a long time since I've done missions, but the NPC's now instalock your drones? .... Glad I don't have to do missions to earn a living.....
NPC AI is now very bad.
I jump into a mission pocket in an assault-frig while someone is banging away at the NPC's in a Myrm, and the NPC's switch agro to...wait for it...my salvage drones.
Yep, evidently NPC FC's have been instructed to ignore the BC blapping their friends, and primary those dreaded salvage bots!
Of course when those are gone they primary me when I am not even targetting them, again ignoring the Myrm whacking their buds. Who's the bigger threat to them, the Myrm blazing away or the assault-frig not even targetting them? Really?
It's breaks with reality like this that make good science fiction bad, mmkay? http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
369
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 14:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Missions are simple, very simple, with a Large Micro Jump Drive on your drone boat along with sentries. Easier than even before the NPC AI changes. How does this work exactly? Micro jump away from the frigs, drop sentries and kill them as they fly over to you. If they somehow get under your sentries, repeat. Just don't forget to recall your sentries before MJDing...
That's why I put my drones show they show up on my overview... so I don't forget, lol. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
369
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 14:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Missions are simple, very simple, with a Large Micro Jump Drive on your drone boat along with sentries. Easier than even before the NPC AI changes. How does this work exactly?
As the others said... just activate the LMJD as you warp in. Once you come out of warp, you stop your ship, deploy sentries and pick off the frigates, and others as they come to you. Make sure you have sentries with long range capabilities, not the close in thermal damage ones. All the other ones would work.
Also, make sure you keep a set of the thermal (can never keep the sentries names straight) in case the ships get in close, which they shouldn't if you do it right. In my Rattlesnake, I keep a set of thermal all times, then usually the mission specific sentries I need, a set of mission specific large and small drones. Most of the time, only have to deploy the mission specific sentry drones as they kill frigs fast at a distance, as well as destroyers, cruisers, battlecruiser and then battleship. That is usually the order I kill them in.
If you go off in the right direction, you can even do it so you don't have to fly to the next gate if there is one. You can align in a manner where you can LMJD directly to the next gate after you have killed all the rats in the room. Takes some practice though.
As for the fitting on my Rattlesnake to make this possible, I have 2 Drone Link Augmentor II in the high slots, 2 Omindirectional Tracking Link II in the medium slots, and anywhere from 3 to 4 Drone Damage Amplifier II in the low slots, depending on the mission. With this set up, along with my cruise missiles, I get 1076 dps.
I am sure this will work with other drone boats as well. Anyway, hope this has helped. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
Colonel Sponz
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
2
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Posted - 2013.03.04 14:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
nubile slave wrote:Due to excessive boredom i decided to run a couple level 4's last night. Entered the room in my Nightmare, Sansha, lots of Sentries, couple BS, couple cruisers, couple frigs, all at about 20k. Frigs aggro immediately and I only manage to kill one before they get in close. No problem, i'll drop drones.... Drop 5 Valk 2's, Drone durability 5. Frigs are 6k away, agress one of them, see instant damage on a drone, recall them...and lose one on the way back...... So, I let the flies buzz, instapop the cruisers, kill the sentries and BS. I again drop my 4 remaining drones. One is killed instantly, before I can order them to redock. Now I know it's been a long time since I've done missions, but the NPC's now instalock your drones? The three frigs never stopped firing on me, never lost aggro on them. Yet they were able to kill a drone within five seconds of being released? The first time, I assumed i simply didn't see one of the NPC's refocus fire, but I didn't see the frigs refocus fire, so, NPC's will now fire on multiple targets at the same time? Glad I don't have to do missions to earn a living.....
I feel your pain although MJDs and a sensor booster loaded with a targetting range script does the job. Two shotting 1m ISK bounty BS from 120km is tremendously satisfying. |
Colonel Sponz
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
2
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Posted - 2013.03.04 15:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Whisperen wrote:You could try not soloing lvl 4s and use a small gang of people instead.
LOL k
Missions are unrewarding enough without having to share the spoils. If you can't solo level 4s in half the time it takes to salvage them then you're doing something wrong. |
Signal11th
The Retirement Club
912
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 15:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Colonel Sponz wrote:nubile slave wrote:Due to excessive boredom i decided to run a couple level 4's last night. Entered the room in my Nightmare, Sansha, lots of Sentries, couple BS, couple cruisers, couple frigs, all at about 20k. Frigs aggro immediately and I only manage to kill one before they get in close. No problem, i'll drop drones.... Drop 5 Valk 2's, Drone durability 5. Frigs are 6k away, agress one of them, see instant damage on a drone, recall them...and lose one on the way back...... So, I let the flies buzz, instapop the cruisers, kill the sentries and BS. I again drop my 4 remaining drones. One is killed instantly, before I can order them to redock. Now I know it's been a long time since I've done missions, but the NPC's now instalock your drones? The three frigs never stopped firing on me, never lost aggro on them. Yet they were able to kill a drone within five seconds of being released? The first time, I assumed i simply didn't see one of the NPC's refocus fire, but I didn't see the frigs refocus fire, so, NPC's will now fire on multiple targets at the same time? Glad I don't have to do missions to earn a living..... I feel your pain although MJDs and a sensor booster loaded with a targetting range script does the job. Two shotting 1m ISK bounty BS from 120km is tremendously satisfying.
I love to see what you are using to 2 shot a 1m isk bounty rat as currently I'm sat in a 1576dps sentry carrier using Gardes and it still takes me 4/5 shots to kill a 1m isk rat. Thats at optimal with near perfect skills as well. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
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