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Talthrus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:53:00 -
[1]
Contained within the new patch notes area that CCP put up is a planned feature that includes bonuses based on the race, bloodline, and school you chose. Although these bonuses make sense and would add depth to the game, there are some inherent problems adding these bonuses so late after the game has been released.
 Quote:
New selections which either replace or complement current choices would be "quirks and perks", a commonly known element in RPG's, more impact on what school/ancestry you select, add bloodline traits like Brutor getting +5% projectile guns. Nothing excessive though.
I was excited when I first read that your character selection choices would result in unique bonuses until I realized how big of an impact this would really have on the game. Before I continue, let's take a look at attributes. Fact: Some of the oldest players in EVE have a much different attribute setup than newer players. For example, willpower used to be a much more desirable attribute than it is now, thus there are many older players out there with high willpower (which means much less now). Thankfully, I joined EVE after the attribute switch. If I was affected by the attribute change, however, I know I would be upset because what seemed like a good idea at the time has suddenly become undesirable.
The above is exactly what I'm afraid is going to happen if these bonuses are put in place. Whether you made your character based on looks, attribute setups available, or whatever, those choices you made so long ago suddenly mean something significant. Any way you look at it, there are going to be people that absolutely hate the bonuses they receive for their character. For example, a PVP pilot might wind up with a strange industrial bonus because they picked an industrial school and bloodline at the time they started the game but decided they enjoyed combat more. We don't need another repeat of the attribute change.
What has made EVE so appealing to me is the fact that you can persue anything you want. If you started as a Caldari, you are perfectly free to fly Amarr ships as well as the next guy (you just need to train the skills). If I would have known I enjoyed Amarr ships more when I started EVE, I would have never chose a Caldari character. Thankfully though, I'm not restricted by my race and can pursue a different path than the one started on.
Although I started in a combat school with the combat bloodline, I might wind up with a bonus that I will never use. I'm positive there are many players in EVE that fly and specialize in a ship race that is not their own. But hey - this is EVE right? Players at the moment don't need to worry if they decide they don't like their own race's ships. EVE allows you to be the best at anything you set your mind to without restriction.
Again, although this is a great idea from CCP, at the current stage in EVE I feel adding these bonuses would hurt players more than excite them. Sure - a 5% bonus here and a 3% bonus there doesn't seem like too much, but these bonuses add up. I like being able to set my mind toward a goal (in my case, specializing in Amarr ships) without being restricted by the character I created when I started before EVER playing EVE. If I was given the choice now and these bonuses were set in stone, you'd be reading a post from an Amarr pilot. Unfortunately, everyone's race and bloodline will now become either a blessing or a curse, most likely being the latter.
"Adapt or quit" people will say, but those little bonuses that I *could* be getting would be clawing at the back of my head every time I login and prepare to undock on another combat adventure in another race's ship type.
Please post your thoughts about these upcoming bonuses. I'd appreciate any comments or thoughts on the subject.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:58:00 -
[2]
Where did you get this info?
Kali preview?
Link!
[Come to Daddy]
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Talthrus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:00:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Talthrus on 10/08/2005 21:00:50
Originally by: Discorporation
Where did you get this info?
Kali preview?
Link!
From the new sticky / new patch notes area  .
Linky
Edit: Wrong Linky 
Good Linky
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:02:00 -
[4]
wow
im going to bed and digest the appearance of this great new feature
before that, 'merits and flaws' are a phenominally bad idea.
[Come to Daddy]
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Felsin
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:05:00 -
[5]
I got owned by the attribute switch and now im worried about this new feature as well. I am amarr and use amarr ships but I dont even remember what school I chose lol.
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:13:00 -
[6]
Looks very nice, lets see how much of this get incorporated first though
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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valkir
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Felsin
I got owned by the attribute switch and now im worried about this new feature as well. I am amarr and use amarr ships but I dont even remember what school I chose lol.
check your employment history
Error 7.0b1 - The item could not be deleted because it was missing The world will end in five minutes Please log out.
WARNING: Keyboard Not Attached. Press F10 to Continue
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:23:00 -
[8]
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Santiac
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:28:00 -
[9]
I must say i'm not too fond of this, granted it makes sense that the knowledge from the school a character was in gave him extra knowledge in the use of a specefic area, but hopefully they wont narrow it down to weapon type or ship type specefic bonuses, but more general features such as velocity, sensor strength, mining yield, attributes that work on all ships and all form of weapons. After that, they could put it inside a nichÚ (say matari would get bonuses to velocity, rof, mining yield. While gallente would get to sensor strength, damage mod, cargo space, etc.
Making the bonuses ship or gun type specefic would be.. wrong.. First off quite a few blebs would get ****ed, who never got the chance to get a say in what bonus they get. Second EVE's charm (to me) is that it was the only game that allowed you to persue both RP without worrying about what route you took in the game.
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<insert clever/witty comment here>
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:31:00 -
[10]
EVE's charm is freedom. Things like this eliminate freedom.
--
Proud member of the [23].
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Sid Carrera
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:34:00 -
[11]
I think that is just plain wrong. The choices you make during the character creation should not have that kinda effect to your end game character. Because when you are new to the game you really dont know what you are doing during character creation, and after you have played few months you dont want to start again with a new character and train all those skills again.
I dont want to feel that my character is void because it cant be good as someone else's character with ships that i have decided to train instead of my racial ships, ever.
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Ysolde Xen
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:36:00 -
[12]
I agree. I like the fact that your starting path merely determins what you do *at the beginning*. That the fact you chose Amarr over Gallente doesn't mean you can never be great at X, Y or Z eventually. Initial perks - sure. Like more skills (specialised) dependent on school. But I don't like the idea of restricting it to race and bloodlines. It smacks too much of 'class'-based limitation from other games and avoiding that old hash is one of the things that appeals about EVE. |
So'Kar
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:37:00 -
[13]
Sound too much like "elves +5 archery", so scrap it while it's still in drawing board.
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:43:00 -
[14]
I dislike this idea, it discourages diversity of character specialisations, if we do see something like Minmatar getting projectile bonus, Caldari missile bonus etc then why would those races ever bother to learn to fly another race's ship? The thing I liked most about Eve is that you can be anything you want to be, even if you have the worst attributes you will still end up as effective as anyone else at that skill. This new feature changes that...
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loladoll
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: So'Kar
Sound too much like "elves +5 archery", so scrap it while it's still in drawing board.
I agree. This is not a good idea. Eve is freedom to do what you want. Being predeterminded by a choice 2 years ago is just plain silly.
But is called drawingboard, so erasure should be possible
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Kraven Kor
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:48:00 -
[16]
If they do the bloodline "merits and flaws" thing, which both sounds interesting and staggeringly bad, they must let players "reselect" their bloodline. Basically, a one time change for all players letting them reselect their bloodline and base attributes.
We just need them to let us "customize" our clone... I could handle trading in this ugly mug ;)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 22:33:00 -
[17]
My 27 something charisma and the school I chose will do diddly for me as this game is hopelessly underdeveloped in anything not related to combat still, what's in it for the prettyboys?
[23] |
Trader Klyde
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Posted - 2005.08.10 23:08:00 -
[18]
Being as this info is pulled from "The Drawingboard", I think we can all rest easy knowing that this kind of change would take lots of reviews and approvals before it ever got a "go ahead".
Drawingboards are mostly just ideas... many if not most will never see implementation.
However, if they ever revise science and associated functions, getting a boost to my charisma might not be such a bad thing. 
________________________________________________
From deep in space where nobody hears my screams...
Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style. |
Dampfschlaghammer
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Posted - 2005.08.10 23:47:00 -
[19]
Yes I dislike the feature as well. IMO the best would have been if you just had scrapped all the attribute stuff as well. Unlike in other MMOs, in Eve you choose one char and stick to it, you dont level up several others once your first hits the level limit.
It sucks that you make such an important, irreversible choice at the beginning of the game, and not when you know more about it.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.08.10 23:54:00 -
[20]
maybe the best way to implement this would be through COSMOS? like if you finally get to the COSMOS "endgame" you gain the "attributes" both positive and negative as in something to show for your experiences... It would reward those people for learning more about the region they live in. Of course this should take 3-4 mths to obtain at the earliest and not something you could "grind" towards.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.10 23:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
EVE's charm is freedom. Things like this eliminate freedom.
^^^ agree 110% - this is the problem with many of the up coming suggestions. I mean, in game victory conditions for wars?
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Talthrus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 00:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Dark Shikari
EVE's charm is freedom. Things like this eliminate freedom.
^^^ agree 110% - this is the problem with many of the up coming suggestions. I mean, in game victory conditions for wars?
Exactly my point. If these bonuses are put in place that freedom is gone to a certain degree, which would be horrible for gameplay. 
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.08.11 01:27:00 -
[23]
A lot of the stuff on that drawing board is seriously bad sh!t. This being part of it.
Oh and drones that do scary sh!t like nos you is also evil. Drones should have limitations. If they can do absolutely everything, then it gets completely unbalanced because just to fight one Dominix, you actually have to fight a dozen full-fledged ships at the same time, all of which are difficult to target/hit/kill, can move at insane speeds, ignore whether the controlling player gets jammed, etc etc etc. If they shoot you, fine. If you can fit any combat setup on your ship without using any slots, because all you have to do is fill your drone bay differently, then drones have gone too far.
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^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:20:00 -
[24]
I personally think you're freaking out over that one line. I think its overpowered to give one race combat bonuses to certain guns, and I dont think (and hope) that never happens. When it comes to flying and shooting only your skills should matter, not the seemingly random choice new players go through during char creation. I don't see how Minmatar DNA has evolved, even 23000 years into the future, to make projectiles work better.. it just doesn't make sense. Projectiles are good on minmatar ships because minmatar ships weren't made to handle hybrids or lasers, hence the "bonus". For the same reasons all Russians don't get a bonus to Vodka making and Americans don't get a bonus to burger flipping right after birth. It all depends on your education (read: skills) and the tools you use (read: ships).
The bonuses should apply to more RP things. If you're part of a military school, you get lower repair costs by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. If you're part of a business school you get lower market taxes by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. For science/tech schools maybe lower lab and factory rent costs. Nothing huge, but enough for new characters to consider which region they want to settle down in during the start of their playing and that affects the people they meet and the corporations they join. I kinda think that promotes RP.. in beta it was pretty wierd to get amarr or minmatars in gallente space, and that led to all sorts of hilarity.
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Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:46:00 -
[25]
IMO if they are gonna implant these changes all characters made before that should have s chance to chose there schools over again....
i can live whit that i ****** up on attributes when i made my char...
but i still got the training done and then see a character suddenly do like 5% more dammage then u just becasue he joined the game on a later date would **** me off knowing that no matter what i did i could never do anytihng to get those last 5 %..
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Be a warrior in game Not on forums
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Makhan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:50:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Makhan on 11/08/2005 02:51:03
edit:
please, and i mean PLEASE tell me that caldari dont get EW bonuses?
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Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:55:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sir JoJo on 11/08/2005 02:55:48
i mean some Racial bous would be cool but they should be some optional bonus maybe some racial implants?
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Be a warrior in game Not on forums
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Branmuffin
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Posted - 2005.08.11 03:34:00 -
[28]
It would be cool if each offered like three bonuses that you could select.
Say one small bonus to racial gunnery, one to racial shiptypes and one general bonus.
Like say Gallente race would have the choice of, 5% Hybrid turret damage, 5% MWD Penalty reduction, or +2 drones controlled.
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Jaabaa Prime
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Posted - 2005.08.11 03:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Talthrus
Quote:
New selections which either replace or complement current choices would be "quirks and perks", a commonly known element in RPG's, more impact on what school/ancestry you select, add bloodline traits like Brutor getting +5% projectile guns. Nothing excessive though.
We Brutors will get another 5%, sounds good to me
--
Intergalactic Teeth Pullers
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein |
Jennai
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Posted - 2005.08.11 04:00:00 -
[30]
there are way too many Caldari Deteis because they have the most balanced stats, let's not remove even more diversity by putting bonuses on things.
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