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Talthrus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:53:00 -
[1]
Contained within the new patch notes area that CCP put up is a planned feature that includes bonuses based on the race, bloodline, and school you chose. Although these bonuses make sense and would add depth to the game, there are some inherent problems adding these bonuses so late after the game has been released.
 Quote:
New selections which either replace or complement current choices would be "quirks and perks", a commonly known element in RPG's, more impact on what school/ancestry you select, add bloodline traits like Brutor getting +5% projectile guns. Nothing excessive though.
I was excited when I first read that your character selection choices would result in unique bonuses until I realized how big of an impact this would really have on the game. Before I continue, let's take a look at attributes. Fact: Some of the oldest players in EVE have a much different attribute setup than newer players. For example, willpower used to be a much more desirable attribute than it is now, thus there are many older players out there with high willpower (which means much less now). Thankfully, I joined EVE after the attribute switch. If I was affected by the attribute change, however, I know I would be upset because what seemed like a good idea at the time has suddenly become undesirable.
The above is exactly what I'm afraid is going to happen if these bonuses are put in place. Whether you made your character based on looks, attribute setups available, or whatever, those choices you made so long ago suddenly mean something significant. Any way you look at it, there are going to be people that absolutely hate the bonuses they receive for their character. For example, a PVP pilot might wind up with a strange industrial bonus because they picked an industrial school and bloodline at the time they started the game but decided they enjoyed combat more. We don't need another repeat of the attribute change.
What has made EVE so appealing to me is the fact that you can persue anything you want. If you started as a Caldari, you are perfectly free to fly Amarr ships as well as the next guy (you just need to train the skills). If I would have known I enjoyed Amarr ships more when I started EVE, I would have never chose a Caldari character. Thankfully though, I'm not restricted by my race and can pursue a different path than the one started on.
Although I started in a combat school with the combat bloodline, I might wind up with a bonus that I will never use. I'm positive there are many players in EVE that fly and specialize in a ship race that is not their own. But hey - this is EVE right? Players at the moment don't need to worry if they decide they don't like their own race's ships. EVE allows you to be the best at anything you set your mind to without restriction.
Again, although this is a great idea from CCP, at the current stage in EVE I feel adding these bonuses would hurt players more than excite them. Sure - a 5% bonus here and a 3% bonus there doesn't seem like too much, but these bonuses add up. I like being able to set my mind toward a goal (in my case, specializing in Amarr ships) without being restricted by the character I created when I started before EVER playing EVE. If I was given the choice now and these bonuses were set in stone, you'd be reading a post from an Amarr pilot. Unfortunately, everyone's race and bloodline will now become either a blessing or a curse, most likely being the latter.
"Adapt or quit" people will say, but those little bonuses that I *could* be getting would be clawing at the back of my head every time I login and prepare to undock on another combat adventure in another race's ship type.
Please post your thoughts about these upcoming bonuses. I'd appreciate any comments or thoughts on the subject.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:58:00 -
[2]
Where did you get this info?
Kali preview?
Link!
[Come to Daddy]
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Talthrus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:00:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Talthrus on 10/08/2005 21:00:50
Originally by: Discorporation
Where did you get this info?
Kali preview?
Link!
From the new sticky / new patch notes area  .
Linky
Edit: Wrong Linky 
Good Linky
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:02:00 -
[4]
wow
im going to bed and digest the appearance of this great new feature
before that, 'merits and flaws' are a phenominally bad idea.
[Come to Daddy]
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Felsin
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:05:00 -
[5]
I got owned by the attribute switch and now im worried about this new feature as well. I am amarr and use amarr ships but I dont even remember what school I chose lol.
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:13:00 -
[6]
Looks very nice, lets see how much of this get incorporated first though
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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valkir
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Felsin
I got owned by the attribute switch and now im worried about this new feature as well. I am amarr and use amarr ships but I dont even remember what school I chose lol.
check your employment history
Error 7.0b1 - The item could not be deleted because it was missing The world will end in five minutes Please log out.
WARNING: Keyboard Not Attached. Press F10 to Continue
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:23:00 -
[8]
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Santiac
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:28:00 -
[9]
I must say i'm not too fond of this, granted it makes sense that the knowledge from the school a character was in gave him extra knowledge in the use of a specefic area, but hopefully they wont narrow it down to weapon type or ship type specefic bonuses, but more general features such as velocity, sensor strength, mining yield, attributes that work on all ships and all form of weapons. After that, they could put it inside a nichÚ (say matari would get bonuses to velocity, rof, mining yield. While gallente would get to sensor strength, damage mod, cargo space, etc.
Making the bonuses ship or gun type specefic would be.. wrong.. First off quite a few blebs would get ****ed, who never got the chance to get a say in what bonus they get. Second EVE's charm (to me) is that it was the only game that allowed you to persue both RP without worrying about what route you took in the game.
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<insert clever/witty comment here>
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:31:00 -
[10]
EVE's charm is freedom. Things like this eliminate freedom.
--
Proud member of the [23].
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Sid Carrera
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:34:00 -
[11]
I think that is just plain wrong. The choices you make during the character creation should not have that kinda effect to your end game character. Because when you are new to the game you really dont know what you are doing during character creation, and after you have played few months you dont want to start again with a new character and train all those skills again.
I dont want to feel that my character is void because it cant be good as someone else's character with ships that i have decided to train instead of my racial ships, ever.
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Ysolde Xen
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:36:00 -
[12]
I agree. I like the fact that your starting path merely determins what you do *at the beginning*. That the fact you chose Amarr over Gallente doesn't mean you can never be great at X, Y or Z eventually. Initial perks - sure. Like more skills (specialised) dependent on school. But I don't like the idea of restricting it to race and bloodlines. It smacks too much of 'class'-based limitation from other games and avoiding that old hash is one of the things that appeals about EVE. |
So'Kar
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:37:00 -
[13]
Sound too much like "elves +5 archery", so scrap it while it's still in drawing board.
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:43:00 -
[14]
I dislike this idea, it discourages diversity of character specialisations, if we do see something like Minmatar getting projectile bonus, Caldari missile bonus etc then why would those races ever bother to learn to fly another race's ship? The thing I liked most about Eve is that you can be anything you want to be, even if you have the worst attributes you will still end up as effective as anyone else at that skill. This new feature changes that...
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loladoll
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: So'Kar
Sound too much like "elves +5 archery", so scrap it while it's still in drawing board.
I agree. This is not a good idea. Eve is freedom to do what you want. Being predeterminded by a choice 2 years ago is just plain silly.
But is called drawingboard, so erasure should be possible
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Kraven Kor
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:48:00 -
[16]
If they do the bloodline "merits and flaws" thing, which both sounds interesting and staggeringly bad, they must let players "reselect" their bloodline. Basically, a one time change for all players letting them reselect their bloodline and base attributes.
We just need them to let us "customize" our clone... I could handle trading in this ugly mug ;)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.10 22:33:00 -
[17]
My 27 something charisma and the school I chose will do diddly for me as this game is hopelessly underdeveloped in anything not related to combat still, what's in it for the prettyboys?
[23] |
Trader Klyde
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Posted - 2005.08.10 23:08:00 -
[18]
Being as this info is pulled from "The Drawingboard", I think we can all rest easy knowing that this kind of change would take lots of reviews and approvals before it ever got a "go ahead".
Drawingboards are mostly just ideas... many if not most will never see implementation.
However, if they ever revise science and associated functions, getting a boost to my charisma might not be such a bad thing. 
________________________________________________
From deep in space where nobody hears my screams...
Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style. |
Dampfschlaghammer
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Posted - 2005.08.10 23:47:00 -
[19]
Yes I dislike the feature as well. IMO the best would have been if you just had scrapped all the attribute stuff as well. Unlike in other MMOs, in Eve you choose one char and stick to it, you dont level up several others once your first hits the level limit.
It sucks that you make such an important, irreversible choice at the beginning of the game, and not when you know more about it.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.08.10 23:54:00 -
[20]
maybe the best way to implement this would be through COSMOS? like if you finally get to the COSMOS "endgame" you gain the "attributes" both positive and negative as in something to show for your experiences... It would reward those people for learning more about the region they live in. Of course this should take 3-4 mths to obtain at the earliest and not something you could "grind" towards.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.10 23:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
EVE's charm is freedom. Things like this eliminate freedom.
^^^ agree 110% - this is the problem with many of the up coming suggestions. I mean, in game victory conditions for wars?
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Talthrus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 00:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Dark Shikari
EVE's charm is freedom. Things like this eliminate freedom.
^^^ agree 110% - this is the problem with many of the up coming suggestions. I mean, in game victory conditions for wars?
Exactly my point. If these bonuses are put in place that freedom is gone to a certain degree, which would be horrible for gameplay. 
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.08.11 01:27:00 -
[23]
A lot of the stuff on that drawing board is seriously bad sh!t. This being part of it.
Oh and drones that do scary sh!t like nos you is also evil. Drones should have limitations. If they can do absolutely everything, then it gets completely unbalanced because just to fight one Dominix, you actually have to fight a dozen full-fledged ships at the same time, all of which are difficult to target/hit/kill, can move at insane speeds, ignore whether the controlling player gets jammed, etc etc etc. If they shoot you, fine. If you can fit any combat setup on your ship without using any slots, because all you have to do is fill your drone bay differently, then drones have gone too far.
___________________________________________
^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:20:00 -
[24]
I personally think you're freaking out over that one line. I think its overpowered to give one race combat bonuses to certain guns, and I dont think (and hope) that never happens. When it comes to flying and shooting only your skills should matter, not the seemingly random choice new players go through during char creation. I don't see how Minmatar DNA has evolved, even 23000 years into the future, to make projectiles work better.. it just doesn't make sense. Projectiles are good on minmatar ships because minmatar ships weren't made to handle hybrids or lasers, hence the "bonus". For the same reasons all Russians don't get a bonus to Vodka making and Americans don't get a bonus to burger flipping right after birth. It all depends on your education (read: skills) and the tools you use (read: ships).
The bonuses should apply to more RP things. If you're part of a military school, you get lower repair costs by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. If you're part of a business school you get lower market taxes by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. For science/tech schools maybe lower lab and factory rent costs. Nothing huge, but enough for new characters to consider which region they want to settle down in during the start of their playing and that affects the people they meet and the corporations they join. I kinda think that promotes RP.. in beta it was pretty wierd to get amarr or minmatars in gallente space, and that led to all sorts of hilarity.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:46:00 -
[25]
IMO if they are gonna implant these changes all characters made before that should have s chance to chose there schools over again....
i can live whit that i ****** up on attributes when i made my char...
but i still got the training done and then see a character suddenly do like 5% more dammage then u just becasue he joined the game on a later date would **** me off knowing that no matter what i did i could never do anytihng to get those last 5 %..
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Be a warrior in game Not on forums
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Makhan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:50:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Makhan on 11/08/2005 02:51:03
edit:
please, and i mean PLEASE tell me that caldari dont get EW bonuses?
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Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.11 02:55:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sir JoJo on 11/08/2005 02:55:48
i mean some Racial bous would be cool but they should be some optional bonus maybe some racial implants?
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Be a warrior in game Not on forums
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Branmuffin
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Posted - 2005.08.11 03:34:00 -
[28]
It would be cool if each offered like three bonuses that you could select.
Say one small bonus to racial gunnery, one to racial shiptypes and one general bonus.
Like say Gallente race would have the choice of, 5% Hybrid turret damage, 5% MWD Penalty reduction, or +2 drones controlled.
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Jaabaa Prime
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Posted - 2005.08.11 03:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Talthrus
Quote:
New selections which either replace or complement current choices would be "quirks and perks", a commonly known element in RPG's, more impact on what school/ancestry you select, add bloodline traits like Brutor getting +5% projectile guns. Nothing excessive though.
We Brutors will get another 5%, sounds good to me
--
Intergalactic Teeth Pullers
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein |
Jennai
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Posted - 2005.08.11 04:00:00 -
[30]
there are way too many Caldari Deteis because they have the most balanced stats, let's not remove even more diversity by putting bonuses on things.
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Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.08.11 04:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
I personally think you're freaking out over that one line. I think its overpowered to give one race combat bonuses to certain guns, and I dont think (and hope) that never happens. When it comes to flying and shooting only your skills should matter, not the seemingly random choice new players go through during char creation. I don't see how Minmatar DNA has evolved, even 23000 years into the future, to make projectiles work better.. it just doesn't make sense. Projectiles are good on minmatar ships because minmatar ships weren't made to handle hybrids or lasers, hence the "bonus". For the same reasons all Russians don't get a bonus to Vodka making and Americans don't get a bonus to burger flipping right after birth. It all depends on your education (read: skills) and the tools you use (read: ships).
The bonuses should apply to more RP things. If you're part of a military school, you get lower repair costs by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. If you're part of a business school you get lower market taxes by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. For science/tech schools maybe lower lab and factory rent costs. Nothing huge, but enough for new characters to consider which region they want to settle down in during the start of their playing and that affects the people they meet and the corporations they join. I kinda think that promotes RP.. in beta it was pretty wierd to get amarr or minmatars in gallente space, and that led to all sorts of hilarity.
I think this is a really awesome idea digi.
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Hanns
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Posted - 2005.08.11 04:14:00 -
[32]
The day an Amarr pilot gets a +5% damage to energy weapons, and i get a +5% to Kinetic missile damage, while im specialized in Amarr ships is the day i quit eve, and im not even joking.
Like Talthrus said, whe ni started eve i was a noob, i chose crappy attributes (sprad them out evenly across the board including charisma )as i didnt realize how much of the game depended on them, i already regret that, but there is implants and advances learning skills thta make it about bearable!
I also chose Caldari Dietes Coz i thought he looked cool, and chose science and trade institute for whatever reason i forget now, so if i end up with +2 open market orders when other people get like +2% rate of fire, im not going to be a happy chappy, and im sure a huge chunk of the eve community would feel the same!
Scrap this CCP before you take it to far!
Sig by Mr Floppyknickers |
W0lverine
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Posted - 2005.08.11 04:16:00 -
[33]
Edited by: W0lverine on 11/08/2005 04:17:12
Originally by: Hanns
The day an Amarr pilot gets a +5% damage to energy weapons, and i get a +5% to Kinetic missile damage, while im specialized in Amarr ships is the day i quit eve, and im not even joking.
Like Talthrus said, whe ni started eve i was a noob, i chose crappy attributes (sprad them out evenly across the board including charisma)as i didnt realize how much of the game depended on them, i already regret that, but there is implants and advances learning skills thta make it about bearable!
I also chose Caldari Dietes Coz i thought he looked cool, and chose science and trade institute for whatever reason i forget now, so if i end up with +2 open market orders when other people get like +2% rate of fire, im not going to be a happy chappy, and im sure a huge chunk of the eve community would feel the same!
Scrap this CCP before you take it to far!
what he said
there is 2 races ships I dont fly and hate, and caldari is one of them
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.11 04:24:00 -
[34]
What would perhaps be cool is if you could have a "training" slot under augmentations (keeps between clones though). You would come out of school with one, and with a semi trivial change (like, a couple missions or something) you could change it out to something else. For instance, by starting with the Federal Navy Academy you could get a +5% hybrid damage or whatever; BUT by visiting the Republic Military School and having a couple minmatar skills you could learn the minmatar +5% projectile bonus. You could only retrain say, once a month and have to go to one of the schools, and the service would be a nominal fee and take some time to accomplish.
THAT wouldn't be half bad and would help a noob just out of the gate.
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Talthrus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 05:26:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Talthrus on 11/08/2005 05:29:30
Originally by: Jennai
there are way too many Caldari Deteis because they have the most balanced stats, let's not remove even more diversity by putting bonuses on things.
Interesting idea. Allowing players to invest some time by "learning" at another school of their choice in order to assign a specific bonus would be a very nice alternate to a "you are caldari! you get +5% to EW speed!" type of idea that CCP currently seems to be planning. Overall, I'd like to see this whole idea scrapped but I'd be very happy with your suggestion, as it still allows for that freedom we all love in EVE.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.11 06:59:00 -
[36]
I can accept Digi's suggestions
For the love of god, nop combat bonusses, please :|
[Come to Daddy]
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 07:02:00 -
[37]
Bad idea t current Eve state.
At start of Eve when we choose characters there no such things.
I am already nerfed hard by the changing of prception attrib in every combat related skill.
Now Intaki would get abonus to trade propably and i would get nerfed even further as combat pilot.
I mean older players didnt have the choice , dumping on them this now isnt fair.
OR make a way to change bloodline and starting school once in Eve after each such change.
Or concect the features to schooland bloodline for starting characters, for old ones let us choose.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Drutort
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Posted - 2005.08.11 07:44:00 -
[38]
The only way it could be excepted by the general eve is if some way or another you could reset or change, to what you wanted or at least limited within your race? Either make it some how that you can even go to different race as a orphan or adoption or some kind of other branch that let you go into another race some wayà either you were civilian or combat pilot or slave or something and though you have your bloodline you chose to go with X, which would be what you have picked..
I am sure that the devs could think of something.
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my PhotoBlog |
Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2005.08.11 07:55:00 -
[39]
i like it.........but i guess im biased with 30 some mill sp all in Amarr ships and turrets
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
jukriamrr
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Posted - 2005.08.11 08:23:00 -
[40]
A very bad idea indeed, imvho.
Good old D&D ftl.... :)
Though if I remember well, that stuff was still present in the character creation process right before Castor was released.
And yeah, even back then it felt ... strange...
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.08.11 08:43:00 -
[41]
This is something that is in the eve data export, but appears to be quite old (was it something in beta?).
There are far more worrying things on that list, such as no-penalty clone jumping, and interbus transport.
Possibly one of the 23 # ex: P-TMC | USAC |
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.08.11 11:44:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Talthrus
Contained within the new patch notes area that CCP put up is a planned feature that includes bonuses based on the race, bloodline, and school you chose. Although these bonuses make sense and would add depth to the game, there are some inherent problems adding these bonuses so late after the game has been released.
Quote:
New selections which either replace or complement current choices would be "quirks and perks", a commonly known element in RPG's, more impact on what school/ancestry you select, add bloodline traits like Brutor getting +5% projectile guns. Nothing excessive though.
It's actually called The Drawingboard, you should read what it's all about before saying anything is a planned feature.
The second key sentence missed is "nothing excessive though".
Third thing, please quote the whole thing. Here is the opening sentence of an entry titled "New Character Creation and Character options/abilities".
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
This is the key thing. You should also read up on Medals & Awards, which makes this more clearer.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
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Lomong
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Posted - 2005.08.11 11:51:00 -
[43]
I'm a bit torn on the subject. Yes, it could create some problems, and take away from the "I can master anything" approach. But on the other hand I want to expand on something DigitalCommunist mentioned, and which goes against him somewhat: People _do_ have natural quirks that makes them better or worse at various things. But there's an even more important thing to note, which is psychological, and which can be noted in for example arts and crafts. Those who grow up in a certain culture will, even without training, have an easier time expressing themselves or utilizing the tools and such of that culture than someone coming from the outside, especially as an adult(A rare few individuals excepted).
As an anecdote about skills I can mention this: I'm experienced with firearms through childhood and military training, and having fired several thousand rounds of 7.62x51 of various sorts linked with a special way of thinking, moving to a different caliber can take months, or even a year to adapt to, for real long-range work in the field. And to retain that edge requires you to keep shooting with the calibers you use, a minimum of 50 rounds/week usually. The people I know who didn't grow up the way I did, and did not have a history of hunters, military and competition shooters in the family but have still been trained generally don't have the same edge.
The problem is, if people can select those quirks, we'll get a lot of people using the same abilities. And if you randomize, you'll get problems too.
So I'm torn on the subject. Would be a neat feature, but given CCP's track record, it will have quite a few things to fix even a year after it's been implemented.
(Sorry for any ramblings, I'm doped up on painkillers, and still tired after coming back from military ops in Sierra Leone)
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Kardose Plathian
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Posted - 2005.08.11 12:09:00 -
[44]
I like the idea. I think most of the no's are coming from people who might miss out on a whole "5%" over another player.
You can still do everything you want it's just the path you took in life is more then just a bit of descriptive text - as it should be IMO.
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Acuna Traos
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Posted - 2005.08.11 12:37:00 -
[45]
I read threw The Drawingboard and found this in the Medals & Awards section
"This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. "
But I see Oveur beet me to it. Maybe this "medal" is a symbol of the fact the schools teachings are fresh in your mind, perhaps the bonus would gradually wear away and then you'd have to go back to school for a refresher course (costing ISK.. mmm isk sink).
Bonuses to Individual races should either not exist as everyone is Human at heart, or be cultural things like Amarr get cheaper stuff from NPC's in Amarr or something like that. But these are just IDEAS, you kinda have to have lots of them in order to get a good one eventually :)
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Soren
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Posted - 2005.08.11 12:42:00 -
[46]
Quote:
This would complement fully the character creation overhaul, allowing the schools/ancestries to be a "medal" which can then be changed by going to school again. Advanced shools and training would also be possible, like through high level agents etc.
See? you can go back to school.. although who knows what that means 
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.11 12:57:00 -
[47]
Perhaps it could be done in similar manner "perks" worked in Fallout? You could add a few small advantages/disadvantages to your character that wouldn't necessarily be hardcoded into bloodline/skill... but mostly up to the player choosing them.
("Bloody Mess" ftw... >>;
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Lomong
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Posted - 2005.08.11 13:00:00 -
[48]
Josephine:
Yeah, I was thinking of maybe going one step further: You have to select perks/drawbacks on a 1:1 basis. But you still get min-maxing. Which I think there is already too much of in this game.
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Roland Ender
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Posted - 2005.08.11 13:01:00 -
[49]
If I get all the way up to Gallente BS 5 and L railspec lvl 4, and my cald char gets a bonus to missles... ill stab someone in the face.
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2005.08.11 13:19:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 11/08/2005 13:19:28
I think its a pretty decent idea. vocal minority ftl!
Instas??
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Derran
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Posted - 2005.08.11 13:45:00 -
[51]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
The bonuses should apply to more RP things. If you're part of a military school, you get lower repair costs by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. If you're part of a business school you get lower market taxes by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. For science/tech schools maybe lower lab and factory rent costs. Nothing huge, but enough for new characters to consider which region they want to settle down in during the start of their playing and that affects the people they meet and the corporations they join. I kinda think that promotes RP.. in beta it was pretty wierd to get amarr or minmatars in gallente space, and that led to all sorts of hilarity.
I never thought I'd say this but I like Digi's idea better. I hope the original idea gets scrapped from the drawing board if they are doing a bonus that counts towards things they give as an example. Eve isn't like other games so mistakes you make later on in your Eve life can't be corrected as quickly by making a new character and leveling up by monster bashing, especially when you are a couple years in like me. I think it is bad enough that people end up pursuing an aspect of eve they thought they wanted, then go a different route and leave wasted skillpoints behind. I did always feel something extra was missing from character creation but this idea is a bit too major for my tastes.
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Padriak
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Posted - 2005.08.11 13:45:00 -
[52]
There is a lot of discussion about new players, that can never be as good as old players. The answer normally is, that the new players should specialize. This looks like a good way to get new players to specialize by getting a push in the right direction.
Old players will not loose anything by this, but new players will gain an advantage.
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Trader Klyde
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Posted - 2005.08.11 13:46:00 -
[53]
Oveur, If the "racial" bonus was taken further than the "Drawingboard", would you guys also consider something to appease the older players, like maybe a one-time attribute/school reallocation?
Say we log in and get a pop-up window asking if we want to shuffle the points around that we allocated during character creation? And maybe the choice to relocate our starting school?
As to the racial bonus's, I'll reserve any comments on them until the ideas are further down the pipe towards development.
________________________________________________
From deep in space where nobody hears my screams...
Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style. |
Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2005.08.11 13:53:00 -
[54]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
The bonuses should apply to more RP things. If you're part of a military school, you get lower repair costs by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. If you're part of a business school you get lower market taxes by 5-10% at stations belonging to your race. For science/tech schools maybe lower lab and factory rent costs. Nothing huge, but enough for new characters to consider which region they want to settle down in during the start of their playing and that affects the people they meet and the corporations they join. I kinda think that promotes RP.. in beta it was pretty wierd to get amarr or minmatars in gallente space, and that led to all sorts of hilarity.
Signed.
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 14:17:00 -
[55]
After checking my character employment history and seeing that I graduated from the combat school........
........I wholeheartedly endorse a 5% combat bonus of some type for my lasers.
I am sure I will be in the minority though. However, SOME kind of bonus would be nice to help offset my crappy perception due to race. It sucks that just becuase I wanted to be Amarr and fly Amarrian ships I am at a disadvantage.
I cranked perception at char creation and I still only have 17 with advanced learning. Would be nice to have SOME type of bonus since I chose the hard route.
Nyxus
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Talthrus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 14:30:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Talthrus on 11/08/2005 14:32:34
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Talthrus
Contained within the new patch notes area that CCP put up is a planned feature that includes bonuses based on the race, bloodline, and school you chose. Although these bonuses make sense and would add depth to the game, there are some inherent problems adding these bonuses so late after the game has been released.
Quote:
New selections which either replace or complement current choices would be "quirks and perks", a commonly known element in RPG's, more impact on what school/ancestry you select, add bloodline traits like Brutor getting +5% projectile guns. Nothing excessive though.
It's actually called The Drawingboard, you should read what it's all about before saying anything is a planned feature.
The second key sentence missed is "nothing excessive though".
Third thing, please quote the whole thing. Here is the opening sentence of an entry titled "New Character Creation and Character options/abilities".
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
This is the key thing. You should also read up on Medals & Awards, which makes this more clearer.
Was the Medals & Awards section up when the new section was just put online? I could have sworn I never saw that section (and read through each section fully). That puts a whole new outlook on the matter and I'd be happy if the bonuses could be swapped around by going back to school.
I left out the first sentence of that quote because I didn't feel it related directly to the bonuses (and I was nearly out of room to post  ).
Nothing excessive is a good thing, but one of my post's points was that even having a little 3% bonus you could never get (but wanted) would claw at people like no other.
Thank you for your reply; you've cleared up my worries. I don't see how I could have skipped over the Medals & Awards section my first run through ...
*relieved*
----------------------
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.11 14:35:00 -
[57]
WOW.
Sounds excellent to me.
Agreed late in the game to do this but then again the game wasn't really ready for this.
Ultimately, good bad and indifferent aside. Weather or not I ..... notice that word .... " I " agree with any big changes CCP has mad since release.
ultimately every change they(CCP) have made has bettered the world of Eve for everyone new to old good bad and indifferent with all our personal Bias' aside. This will only better the game in the long run.
If it screws me, well it screws me but with 30 mill or more skill points, atleast i'll have enough skill base no matter how bad it screws me, atleast I'll have options at hand and a whole slew of new directions to travel ....... even if it wasn't my primary reason for playing.
One thing kinda neat is each race has it has basically the same schools and lines available so atleast if they did do this and implement this ....... they could very well and very easily make all bonus available for each race pending you choices.
If one line in minmatar gets a bonus to large guns, safe to assume all races will have one line to a bonus on large guns.
In lies the problem with already built chars.
Problem with that is as stated, some of us most likely would have chose a different line of schooling.
Out of fairness, they really really would need to allow us to rechoose our lineage if we so choose to but that will probably be very very very hard to implement after some of us have trained 30 mill or more skill points.
Changing our lineage could feasibly change our whole line of training.
I fear only new characters will get the full benefit from this.
As a caldari tubie, I'm frightened for my bonus. Brought up as an outcast of caladari society and looked down upon more by my own race than a minmatar slave in the amarr empire, beat up by society and kicked around in caldari state orphanages ....... I can only immagine what kinda unplesent surpise awaits me.
then again maybe they will give me something to compliment my spot in caldari society ..... AKA orphaned bomb builder, 5% to missle damage.
I too was screwed by the willpower/perc switch long long ago.
the only real thing that frightens me outta that whole blurp.
Give NPC's new effects
Enables new types of NPC's which can have Nosferatu/Cap draining effects on you etc. Incidentally this would also benefit player drones.
I really really hope that means all NPC ships will have the standard size cap capacities and same ship recharge rates as we do to use NOS/Neuts as counter measures for that. As it is NOS/Neuts do not work properly against NPC.
just not right if they can nos us and shut us down if we can't nos back and shut them down.
All and all, has CCP or ever really let us down?
I'd have to say no Bias' set asside.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.08.11 14:53:00 -
[58]
It would be ok if the bonus' were useful but not uber, and didn't require a specific shiptype.
Like for Race it would be:
Gallente: + 2 Drones Controlled
Caldari: 5% Sig reduction
Minmater: 5% Velocity
Amarr: 2% armour resists
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 15:08:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Aitrus on 11/08/2005 15:08:17
Originally by: Oveur
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
Poeple making 'bad' characters like 15 charisma isn't the problem.
The fact that having a 15 charisma is bad is the problem.
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EndersGame
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Posted - 2005.08.11 15:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Talthrus
Contained within the new patch notes area that CCP put up is a planned feature that includes bonuses based on the race, bloodline, and school you chose. Although these bonuses make sense and would add depth to the game, there are some inherent problems adding these bonuses so late after the game has been released.
Quote:
New selections which either replace or complement current choices would be "quirks and perks", a commonly known element in RPG's, more impact on what school/ancestry you select, add bloodline traits like Brutor getting +5% projectile guns. Nothing excessive though.
It's actually called The Drawingboard, you should read what it's all about before saying anything is a planned feature.
The second key sentence missed is "nothing excessive though".
Third thing, please quote the whole thing. Here is the opening sentence of an entry titled "New Character Creation and Character options/abilities".
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
This is the key thing. You should also read up on Medals & Awards, which makes this more clearer.
When will characters be able to re-distribute there attribute points? Ie I am one of those characters that started eve and "got shafted" when gunnery main attribute got changed from willpower to perception.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.08.11 15:59:00 -
[61]
Does the drawingboard have cake or pie on it?
Possibly one of the 23 # ex: P-TMC | USAC |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:04:00 -
[62]
Well I can see a way they can do this without ****ing old players off or screwing over noobs (who pick the wrong choices), which would be to make the quirks & drawbacks changeable at any time (I mean within a day or so), but you can choose from a pool that is only partially defined by your race/schools etc.
Most of the quirks would be generally applicable ones, like cap bonuses, general optimal increase etc. But there could be racial versions that had a higher bonus but a drawback as well. Say 10% more hybird optimal but 10% lower tracking etc.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Ardor
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:16:00 -
[63]
Much more than most of the other games Eve is a game of making decisions and be rewarded or get a penalty because of this decisions you've made. Ignoring balance issues known as 'flavour of the month', I very much dislike the idea of implemeting rewards/penalties 2.5 years after you've made a decision.
I guess less people will be happy about a 5% blueprint copy speed because they've started as a scientist compared to people who get a 5% damage bonus because they've started as a fighter. I know this examples are exaggerated...
As a roleplayer I was very much for more diversity between the races during beta. I was thinking about jumpgate fees for foreign races and so on. The power of the ethnic relation skill was the biggest mistake CCP had done from my point of view.
Today, 2.5 years after launch, we see 99% of the players don't care what race they've chosen and which race build the ship they fly. Most people only care about attributes of their ship and char (and about a bonus from certain schools in future?). I think now it is a bad idea to 'enforce' a Caldari, who had chosen to fly amarrian ships 2 years ago, to fly Caldari ships because he suddenly gets a +5% kinetic missile bonus from the tooth fairy.
If CCP now wants to implement more diversity 2.5 years after launch then I do believe they can do it only based on standings. I do lots of missions but I see good reasons not to implement penalties/rewards because of standings. Don't make eve into a mission grinding game.
On the other hand I have to think about the Imperial Apocalypse which was won by a Minmatar in a lottery. 'Only those in high favor with the Emperor could hope to earn the reward of commanding ... the Apocalypse'. Sure...
I am sorry that I can only criticize instead of offering a possible solution... I promise to think about it because I would like to see more diversity but this must be fair for everyone.
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Soren
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:19:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Trader Klyde
Oveur, If the "racial" bonus was taken further than the "Drawingboard", would you guys also consider something to appease the older players, like maybe a one-time attribute/school reallocation?
Say we log in and get a pop-up window asking if we want to shuffle the points around that we allocated during character creation? And maybe the choice to relocate our starting school?
As to the racial bonus's, I'll reserve any comments on them until the ideas are further down the pipe towards development.
read what a i quoted 7 posts up...
_________________________________________________________
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:23:00 -
[65]
I agree tottaly Ardor.
Also neglecting this pain for old characters, i dont like this idea.
I meanits to restraining, limiting freedom of choice.It will make the Eve universe less diverse if anything.
And dont tell me 5 % is little, its what nearly 2 levels of advanced skill adds to gun dmg.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:34:00 -
[66]
The only thing I think is they should allow all current players to choose which school to sign up with.
Since these bonuses were not around for all current characters, they should not be just given a specific bonus, they should be able to enlist in the school of their choosing if/when it is released.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:41:00 -
[67]
Yay! I'm Intaki combat pilot. I created my char for mining and production and he went to mining school at creation (changed pace 4-5 months into game and have been training gunnery/SSC since with minimal perc/will). If they decide to put this in game, they'd better allow me to choose the Gallentean (or more preferably Intaki Syndicate) bloodline and bonus and give me the Fed Navy school bonus.
--
Mercenary Coaltion has a policy of not shooting neutral, honest, corporations. That is what sets us apart. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:48:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Aitrus
Edited by: Aitrus on 11/08/2005 15:08:17
Originally by: Oveur
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
Poeple making 'bad' characters like 15 charisma isn't the problem.
The fact that having a 15 charisma is bad is the problem.
Indeed, 14 charisma here. Oveur I find your lack of vision disturbing.
[23] |
Daniel Jackson
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Posted - 2005.08.11 17:22:00 -
[69]
atleast im caldari deducated meaniong that ill have the bonus and iut be good with me :)
Caldari will once again rise above the Gallente and take back Caldari Prime!
Image done by Denrace |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.11 17:29:00 -
[70]
"atleast im caldari deducated meaniong that ill have the bonus and iut be good with me :)"
... oh gods; am i the only one who got the mental image of recruitment poster of State War Academy with DJ and "im caldari deducated" on it? >~<;;;
(at least i had chicken....
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 17:34:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ithildin
Yay! I'm Intaki combat pilot. I created my char for mining and production and he went to mining school at creation (changed pace 4-5 months into game and have been training gunnery/SSC since with minimal perc/will). If they decide to put this in game, they'd better allow me to choose the Gallentean (or more preferably Intaki Syndicate) bloodline and bonus and give me the Fed Navy school bonus.
Same here
the changes of all combat related kills to percp hits enough he?:)
Also lack of advanced engeneering and introduction of plenty new percp based combat adv skills...
When we created characters percp wasnt half as useful , also engeneering skills well important for combat and pure comabt skill wasnt that many more...
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Failin Zhar
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Posted - 2005.08.11 18:08:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Aitrus
People making "bad" characters like 15 charisma isn't the problem.
The fact that having a 15 charisma is bad is the problem.
My thoughts exactly. I was THIS close *shows with two fingers* to go the charisma way and make a trader. Glad I didn't.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Darlan Flame
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:29:00 -
[73]
With the ability to switch your school or ancestory at will, this idea changes from bad to good. As long as nobody gets tied in by the choices they make at the begining of the game, this is a fine idea well worth looking into.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:59:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Meridius on 11/08/2005 21:01:19
Originally by: Oveur
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
[IMO]
It should be on the top of CCP's priority list. It is honestly the worst designed system in EVE.
There is a basic logical error in forcing your player base to make the most important career based decision on the first day of playing.
What if you have a player that thinks he's going to want to be a miner/industrialist only to realize (at a much later date) that he really wants to get into PVP.
He will be forever penalized.
If you want to penalize your players that way, thats your call. It's completely and utterly flawed and is in desperate need for a rehaul.
I don't mean rehaul as in making up some new charisma skills, i'm talking attribute reassigning.
Please look into this Oveur
[/IMO]
________________________________________________________
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 01:07:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Meridius
Edited by: Meridius on 11/08/2005 21:01:19
Originally by: Oveur
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
[IMO]
It should be on the top of CCP's priority list. It is honestly the worst designed system in EVE.
There is a basic logical error in forcing your player base to make the most important career based decision on the first day of playing.
What if you have a player that thinks he's going to want to be a miner/industrialist only to realize (at a much later date) that he really wants to get into PVP.
He will be forever penalized.
If you want to penalize your players that way, thats your call. It's completely and utterly flawed and is in desperate need for a rehaul.
I don't mean rehaul as in making up some new charisma skills, i'm talking attribute reassigning.
Please look into this Oveur
[/IMO]
The ironic thing, is if you're going to be PVP or industrialist, you will still want nearly the same attribute priorities...
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2005.08.12 01:54:00 -
[76]
Old players have already created their characters, and thus have no control over what bonus they'll get, so they'll mostly get annoyed at this.
Newbies, great for them, but they're already overwhelmed by the zillions of things they have to choose, and most don't even understand the purpose of attributes, skills, whatever, when they create their character, so good luck adding yet another thing they don't understand but must choose correctly.
All in all a bad choice for everyone.
Are you looking for "replay value" or something? You think we should shelve old characters to start new ones? WTF is the benefit of that? 5% gunnery? ROFL.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:28:00 -
[77]
NO CALDARI EW BONUS! PLEEEASE!!!
___________________________________________
^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:31:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Nyxus on 12/08/2005 02:34:33
Originally by: Meridius
Edited by: Meridius on 11/08/2005 [IMO]
It should be on the top of CCP's priority list. It is honestly the worst designed system in EVE.
There is a basic logical error in forcing your player base to make the most important career based decision on the first day of playing.
What if you have a player that thinks he's going to want to be a miner/industrialist only to realize (at a much later date) that he really wants to get into PVP.
He will be forever penalized.
If you want to penalize your players that way, thats your call. It's completely and utterly flawed and is in desperate need for a rehaul.
I don't mean rehaul as in making up some new charisma skills, i'm talking attribute reassigning.
Please look into this Oveur
[/IMO]
Listen to Meridius. This is the plain truth, and a HUGE amount of the playerbase would welcome these changes if we could just get a onetime reassignment. I have regreted being forced to make the most important character decisions on the day of least knowledge since I started. And I am STILL paying for those poor decisions.
I just thank goodness that all those years of AD&D taught me how useless Charisma was.
Nyxus
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Magnus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.08.12 14:58:00 -
[79]
I think its a good idea, if done correctly. We need a few things to separate one 20mil player for another 20mil player.
But the background choice has to be a NEW one, so that everyone, both new and old, can choose it.
It would also be fun if its more interesting things than just things like +5 in turrets damage. Maybe new skill-like abilities that can ONLY be gained through the background choise you make.
Dont assume the worst, I am sure the devs know what they are doing.
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:21:00 -
[80]
I think if there is a bloodline bonus it should reflect the types of ships or modules that the specific race flies or uses.
Sure, maybe you're an amarrian that loves to fly Tempests, doesn't mean you should be special and get some custom bonus.
if you're Caldari, you should get bonuses along the lines of Caldari ships and modules.
Same for all the races.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:10:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Aitrus
The ironic thing, is if you're going to be PVP or industrialist, you will still want nearly the same attribute priorities...
Erm, i'm pretty sure industrialists don't need heaps of perception/wp. They need lots of int/mem no?
________________________________________________________
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pardux
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:15:00 -
[82]
i <3 bloodline/race bonuses
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:18:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Meridius
Erm, i'm pretty sure industrialists don't need heaps of perception/wp. They need lots of int/mem no?
Well, you still need good perception/wp for stuff like say freighters, iteron mk5s, large mining barge, etc. So just don't end up with 12 charisma and 3 perception as an industrialist...
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:55:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Meridius
Erm, i'm pretty sure industrialists don't need heaps of perception/wp. They need lots of int/mem no?
No, but a PvPer is going to need Electronics, Engineering, Mechanic, Navigation, Drone and learning skills. All of which are Primary Int or memory, many of which are both Int/Memory
And I'm against allowing people to change attributes as they feel like it. It would create WAY to much min/maxing. Start a character with high Int/Memory, train the learning skill, the above PvP related Int/Memory skills, then just swith to Perception/willpower, and train gunnery, ships skills? Kinda defeats the purpose of character creation, and removes any difference between characters.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:26:00 -
[85]
Easier char creation... good for noobs or anyone making a research/manufacture/carebear alt or w/e i guess.
School medals sounds cool. I like that idea. So long as i can go to the amarr/caldari/minm military/whatever school and get the same medal as a native pilot (provided im not KOS to that faction ofc) i dont see why they cant be (small) combat bonuses for the military schools, or something.
As far attribute reallocation... eehh isnt there that skill under science:
Genetic Engineering
The science of interfacing biological and machine components. Allows the use of DNA mutators.
..yeah. ofc, as its been remarked... how to implement it to allow ppl to change themselves a little while preventing (too much) min/maxing?
Limited numbers of genomodifications x person? Maybe increases by training the skill (1-5)?
One modification every m sp?
Only 1 modification x unit of time (once a month)? dunno... intersting though.
Even tho im a horrible char who does nearly everything, i wouldnt mind shaving some charisma off for some will/perc.
-------------
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:32:00 -
[86]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 12/08/2005 17:34:03
Originally by: j0sephine
Perhaps it could be done in similar manner "perks" worked in Fallout? You could add a few small advantages/disadvantages to your character that wouldn't necessarily be hardcoded into bloodline/skill... but mostly up to the player choosing them.
("Bloody Mess" ftw... >>;
best game ever btw. Well Fallout 2 > 1 anyways. Go full sniper with a gauss rifle and have high charisma so you can have Sulik w/ powerfist or electric chainsaw + vic w/ gauss rifle + marcus w/ modified plasma rifle 4tw.
One time I had my whole party just use sledgehammers. It was probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. **** eve I'm going to play fallout 2 again cya.
Critics rave: "Drunk you suck" |
Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:35:00 -
[87]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 12/08/2005 17:34:03
Originally by: j0sephine
Perhaps it could be done in similar manner "perks" worked in Fallout? You could add a few small advantages/disadvantages to your character that wouldn't necessarily be hardcoded into bloodline/skill... but mostly up to the player choosing them.
("Bloody Mess" ftw... >>;
best game ever btw. Well Fallout 2 > 1 anyways. Go full sniper with a gauss rifle and have high charisma so you can have Sulik w/ powerfist or electric chainsaw + vic w/ gauss rifle + marcus w/ modified plasma rifle 4tw.
One time I had my whole party just use sledgehammers. It was probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. **** eve I'm going to play fallout 2 again cya.
I always went melee sytle on ppl, punchin holes in them.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:57:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 12/08/2005 17:57:49
I'm opposed to this idea as well. I regularly fly both caldari and minmatar ships in PvP, and don't want to be relegated to second-rate status every time I fly a minmatar ship as opposed to caldari. (Worse, I expect the caldari bonus to be something like railgun range, which doesn't help my raven one bit, or kinetic missile damage, which is worthless because EVERYONE tanks kinetic.)
That's not even mentioning the fact that I would be a second-rate pilot when flying a 'geddon or other amarr ship - and I've discovered I don't much enjoy amarr ships to begin with...and it'll be even worse if the racial bonus is implemented. Even more of a waste of skillpoints.
Oh, and I'm one of those characters with a ridiculous willpower - 4 points higher than my next highest attribute if I ever bother to finish training on it. Too bad it doesn't have that much of an effect on skill training time...
-Wrayeth |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.08.12 18:29:00 -
[89]
I don't think an overhaul of the system is going to change much for anyone thats played in the last two years. Even if you make some nice "attribute" templates, new players will still have free choice of distributing their points and making a bad call. Or a good choice at the time can turn into a bad one as they find the profession they like most. And current players will still be "screwed".
In my opinion it shouldn't be possible to create a character and rely on two attributes 100% of the time, which is the case with labrat characters whoring int/mem. Dr Caymus with 40mil+ skillpoints comes to mind. Most pvpers that have played since retail are very lucky to have even 70% of that, which is fine. I'm simply pointing out a flaw in the skill training itself. Someone who had high charisma will never have used it in a pvp character up until the new leadership skills were released. Thats a lot of training time lost, and hopefully CCP will continue to release new skill paths/trees for each profession that take each attribute into account.
That way, no matter what your stats are, you can excel in one area of your profession always. Then people couldn't whine because they made the choice themselves. For example, I'd like to see some char, perc, and wp skill trees added for researchers. Tech 3 should involve cosmos heavily, which might need science ships to scan (perc/will), which would rely on charisma skills for npc interaction to get there in the first place.
Combat characters right now have two main skill trees, gunnery and spaceship.. This can make up to 75% of your total skillpoints using only two attributes. In the last patch CCP introduced drone specialization skills which take memory as primary, and leadership which need charisma as primary. I'd like to see a continuation of this and maybe tech 2 battleships requiring the flagships skill. All those people with stupidly high perc/willpower will not continue to dominate in all things pvp related
But if someone thinks they are still screwed, theres always boosters and dna mutators.
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Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Syrec
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Posted - 2005.08.12 18:39:00 -
[90]
The bonus' will matter most in PVP.
I'm gallente -> intaki -> federal navy academy. I assume it would be something like +1 drone, ???, +5% hybrid turret
I'm squirming at the idea though, because Intaki are high charisma (useless attribute that won't be fixed) and I definitely don't want a +5% to some charisma skill.
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