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Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
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Posted - 2013.03.03 07:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just saw this and figured I'd share for anyone who missed it. Pretty close to my own opinion about there being a difference between a PvE player and a carebear. The former is good for Eve, while the latter isn't.
http://evenews24.com/2013/03/01/poetic-discourse-solo-and-pve-play-are-not-sustainable/ "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
787
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Posted - 2013.03.03 07:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Complaining about people who don't interact with you is like complaining that there are neutrinos in your breakfast cereal.
You can turn an isolationist into an active member of the community if they're in game. You can't once they've left or if they never stayed in the first place. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
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Posted - 2013.03.03 07:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Complaining about people who don't interact with you is like complaining that there are neutrinos in your breakfast cereal. It's more like complaining that there's no water in a swimming pool or no gas in a car. This is an MMO. Interaction is required to make it work.
Sentient Blade wrote:You can turn an isolationist into an active member of the community if they're in game. No, no you can't.
Sentient Blade wrote:You can't once they've left or if they never stayed in the first place. I don't see the problem. From a player's perspective they effectively don't exist. From a developer's perspective these are people who are inevitably going to quit anyway and so are nearly irrelevant to profit. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
787
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Posted - 2013.03.03 08:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh don't play dumb, of course they exist... You can't both say they don't exist yet somehow cause a problem.
They are a lot of the people mining the minerals that stop your average battlecruiser costing 100 million ISK.
They are a lot of the people grinding LP and putting implants on market so you can have your learning implants or your shiny hardwires.
So on, and so forth.
They are, in effect, a subservient class that serves the larger community that does interact more.
As anyone who understands this game should know, there is no such thing as being truly solo. So unless those mission runners and solo miners etc that Poetic are complaining about suddenly decided to start mining / inventing / building their own ships, going into nullsec to run plexes and find those lovely deadspace mods, mining no asteroid that any other player may wish to mine, then they're interacting with the community.
But... what am I saying? I wouldn't want to go against the populist narrative they're trying to spin. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
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Posted - 2013.03.03 08:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Oh don't play dumb, of course they exist... You can't both say they don't exist yet somehow cause a problem. I said they effectively don't exist. There's a big difference. Whining until they attained that state of semi-existence is how they're causing problems. It wasn't always like that. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 08:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think I benefit from a fairly unusual perspective. I've seen the entirety of Eve's history, from early closed beta to today. Most bittervets probably saw it as a continuum and fell prey to creeping normalcy. On the other hand, I quit for a few years several times so I my memory of Eve is a series of snapshots of 4 points in the timeline. To me the differences didn't happen slowly, but instantly, and they stick out like a sore thumb. The changes to high sec have had a dramatic impact on life in low sec. They're not the only cause, but they're a large part of it. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1036
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Poetic has but one thought and repeats it endlessly.
Sad really. This is not a signature. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Poetic has but one thought and repeats it endlessly. Sad really. Do you have any actual thoughts on that one point? "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1036
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Poetic has but one thought and repeats it endlessly. Sad really. Do you have any thoughts about that one thought or are you just here to ***** post count?
Yes. This is not a signature. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Poetic has but one thought and repeats it endlessly. Sad really. Do you have any thoughts about that one thought or are you just here to ***** post count? Yes. GTFO then. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
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Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1036
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
sorry, you edited your post as I was replying.
So my answer makes no sense now.
Carry on pixel hard-man. This is not a signature. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:sorry, you edited your post as I was replying.
So my answer makes no sense now.
Carry on pixel hard-man. Sorry, I tend to do that. I'm an indecisive person. It's one of my flaws. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Whitehound
1086
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel is a terrible blogger. Always has been. He probably writes ten times as much as he farts. One needs to tie a sausage around his neck for the dog to play with him. He does not understand that people do not want to play with everyone while at the same time he dislikes others. His articles are full of such crap. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Poetic Stanziel is a terrible blogger. Always has been. He probably writes ten times as much as he farts. One needs to tie a sausage around his neck for the dog to play with him. He does not understand that people do not want to play with everyone while has has a disliking of his own. His articles are full of such crap. Would you like to talk about why you think he's wrong or is "you're wrong because **** you" the extent of your intellectual capability? "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7947
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here's a different perspective on the issue.
Ultimately, the issue is not whether people like to play solo or not. People can play how they choose - sandbox, ya know? The issue is whether CCP are willing to amend the core structure of the game to suit solo play. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1187
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Woah, if I *ever* have seen a straw man argument, it's been this one!
"Playing solo" is not the same as "playing single-player".
If i wanted to mine single-player, I would be playing X3.
Instead, I did played a game where i had to jump to 6 bookmarks before finding some unmined scordite.
And then i would mine it on my own, sometimes with a Hulk, soemtime with a Rokh -if it was a certain time of the year.
Then I would sell that mineral for a variable price.
And all that time, I would be sharing the universe with other people without actually socializing them. That kept things interesting, albeit the mecchanic involved was awfully boring. So I would then open a chat window and socialize with other people without actually exchanging any game resources with them, only my time -and theirs- as we all waited for something to happen ingame that required our attention. Maybe a scordite scan dropping below 11k, so was time to switch the strip miner to another rock...
So no, "playing EVE solo" does not equal to "single player". What it equates though, is to be faced with some of the most awfully unrewarding (and/or time-wasting) mechanics ever implemented in a game... which is not OUR fault. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Whitehound
1086
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:Whitehound wrote:Poetic Stanziel is a terrible blogger. Always has been. He probably writes ten times as much as he farts. One needs to tie a sausage around his neck for the dog to play with him. He does not understand that people do not want to play with everyone while has has a disliking of his own. His articles are full of such crap. Would you like to talk about why you think he's wrong or is "you're wrong because **** you" the extent of your intellectual capability? I just wrote why. Reading is difficult... Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Here's a different perspective on the issue.Ultimately, the issue is not whether people like to play solo or not. People can play how they choose - sandbox, ya know? The issue is whether CCP are willing to amend the core structure of the game to suit solo play. I don't mind people playing solo. I do it myself sometimes. What I have a problem with is people wanted the game changed so that it's impractical or impossible to interact with them even by force. At that point the game ceases to be a sandbox. I'll read the article and be back with a comment on it. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Whitehound
1086
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Complaining about people who don't interact with you is like complaining that there are neutrinos in your breakfast cereal. Next thing you know he will be complaining about doors. How every house, every room, has got a door and how doors are terrible, because they disallow free movement and a world without doors would be much more open and interactive, and doors a so bad. If one could only shut down his blogs... Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Woah, if I *ever* have seen a straw man argument, it's been this one! "Playing solo" is not the same as "playing single-player". If i wanted to mine single-player, I would be playing X3. Instead, I did played a game where i had to jump to 6 bookmarks before finding some unmined scordite. And then i would mine it on my own, sometimes with a Hulk, soemtime with a Rokh -if it was a certain time of the year. Then I would sell that mineral for a variable price. And all that time, I would be sharing the universe with other people without actually socializing them. That kept things interesting, albeit the mecchanic involved was awfully boring. So I would then open a chat window and socialize with other people without actually exchanging any game resources with them, only my time -and theirs- as we all waited for something to happen ingame that required our attention. Maybe a scordite scan dropping below 11k, so was time to switch the strip miner to another rock... So no, "playing EVE solo" does not equal to "single player". What it equates though, is to be faced with some of the most awfully unrewarding (and/or time-wasting) mechanics ever implemented in a game... which is not OUR fault. The same thing could have been accomplished by a random number generator. You don't need other players for that. You're playing single player.
Whitehound wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Complaining about people who don't interact with you is like complaining that there are neutrinos in your breakfast cereal. Next thing you know he will be complaining about doors. How every house, every room, has got a door and how doors are terrible, because they disallow free movement and a world without doors would be much more open and interactive, and doors a so bad. If one could only shut down his blogs... Again with the analogies that have no resemblance to what I said at all. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
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Whitehound
1086
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Posted - 2013.03.03 09:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:Whitehound wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Complaining about people who don't interact with you is like complaining that there are neutrinos in your breakfast cereal. Next thing you know he will be complaining about doors. How every house, every room, has got a door and how doors are terrible, because they disallow free movement and a world without doors would be much more open and interactive, and doors a so bad. If one could only shut down his blogs... Again with the analogies that have no resemblance to what I said at all. True, because I did not reply to you but to Sentient Blade. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:Whitehound wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Complaining about people who don't interact with you is like complaining that there are neutrinos in your breakfast cereal. Next thing you know he will be complaining about doors. How every house, every room, has got a door and how doors are terrible, because they disallow free movement and a world without doors would be much more open and interactive, and doors a so bad. If one could only shut down his blogs... Again with the analogies that have no resemblance to what I said at all. True, because I did not reply to you but to Sentient Blade. Yes, and you were talking about me. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Whitehound
1086
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:Whitehound wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:Whitehound wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Complaining about people who don't interact with you is like complaining that there are neutrinos in your breakfast cereal. Next thing you know he will be complaining about doors. How every house, every room, has got a door and how doors are terrible, because they disallow free movement and a world without doors would be much more open and interactive, and doors a so bad. If one could only shut down his blogs... Again with the analogies that have no resemblance to what I said at all. True, because I did not reply to you but to Sentient Blade. Yes, and you were talking about me. Are you Poetic Stanziel? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
13
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Whitehound wrote: Are you Poetic Stanziel?
The guy you quoted was talking to me, then you quoted him with "Next thing you know he'll blah blah blah.". Did I have a reason to think you weren't talking about me? "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Kane Alvo
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
27
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Not gonna lie. This thread has ZERO potential. Caldari Militia -áGÿ£G£¬GÿP |
Whitehound
1089
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:Whitehound wrote: Are you Poetic Stanziel?
The guy you quoted was talking to me, then you quoted him with "Next thing you know he'll blah blah blah.". Did I have a reason to think you weren't talking about me? The only reasons I could think of are vanity and low self-esteem. Do you have any of those?
In any case, you are not important. Even if I was talking about you was I not talking to you. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
13
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 09:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kane Alvo wrote:Not gonna lie. This thread has ZERO potential. For the third time, would you mind telling us why you think that's the case? I don't think you get how this whole 'talking to people' thing works. People can't discuss your opinion with you if they don't know what it is. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1037
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 10:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
I am one of Eve's 'Lurkers'
I have always accepted the limitations of playing solo.
However, I do interact with other players via the market, pvp, chatting in local etc.
When I leave a station, I can be, and have been ganked, this is how it is now and always should be.
I congratulate those who play in large corps and hold sovereignty etc, good for them, it their choice to do so.
CCP provide the sand-box. I play to suit myself within the limits set by them.
This is not a signature. |
Kane Alvo
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
28
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Posted - 2013.03.03 10:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:For the third time, would you mind telling us why you think that's the case? I don't think you get how this whole 'talking to people' thing works. People can't discuss your opinion with you if they don't know what it is.
Threads like this really serve no point, because the discussion is null and void before it even begins.
PvP guy says PvEers suck PvE guy says PvPers suck Carebear says everyone sucks
Null sec > Low sec Low sec > Hi sec
Small gangs are awesome If you're not blobbing, you're doing it wrong
Nerf paper, scissors are fine...signed, rock
Personally, I had difficulty reading the article. A spelling and grammar check would go a long way, or possibly a proofreader who is above 4th grade comprehension level. It was exhausting to read, because it mostly just talked in circles and didn't offer anything. No insightful opinions, no controversy, no taking a stand. In short, it was someone with a case of blogging diarrhea just filling up space on a page. Might as well just have said, "I like pie" and been done with it.
At least people can relate to pie. Caldari Militia -áGÿ£G£¬GÿP |
bbb2020
Carebears with Attitude
42
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Posted - 2013.03.03 10:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Here's a different perspective on the issue.Ultimately, the issue is not whether people like to play solo or not. People can play how they choose - sandbox, ya know? The issue is whether CCP are willing to amend the core structure of the game to suit solo play.
I'll guess I'll have to take both you're words for it as it seems like both sites are down. http://evenews24.com down to an DNS failure http://themittani.com down to maintenance
left disappointed |
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